fitting vs. FITTING

[revkev]

Of course this belongs in another spot but I suspect that not everyone goes to the club building club fitting section so I'm trying it here.

 

I've noticed WD chiming in recently on fitting in unexpected ways.  A comment that he made yesterday opened my eyes as to why and I totally get where he's coming from.  Stick with me for a bit here.

 

One type of fitting is to show up at the big box store, say can I try this club, have someone go with and keep grabing off the rack stuff until you find something that works.  It's not so bad, if there's a launch monitor, although there is often the issue of a different golf ball from the one that you actually use plus you have no options other than off the rack. 

 

I've made out with this type of fitting before when the sales guy knew his stuff and was able to figure out what he had that might fit the way I swung the club (usually a pro on staff at a place like Golfsmith or Edwin Watts.)

 

The next type of fitting is the guy with the shingle out front.  I've encountered two types.  The first is the guy who knows everything and wants you to know that he knows everything about golf equipment.  You aren't going to tell him anything about your game because he knows best from seeing you hit a few balls into a net and looking at the numbers on his range finder. 

 

This guy is the most dangerous of all fitters!!!!!!!!  Beware of him because regardless of what he knows about equipment he doesn't know you or your game and in the end you are the most important part of the equation. 

 

The other shingle type is the best type for fitting.  He spends some time talking to you about your game.  He looks at what you're currently playing, asks what you're trying to accomplish with it, what you'd like to change in regards to ball flight, what is appealing to your eyes and then he goes to work. 

 

Given that we have a wide range of abilities and knowledge on this site I'm wondering if we have to be carefully about blanketly saying, "Go get fit."  I think when we say that we need to say, "Go get properly fit."

 

I have tons more thoughts on this topic but want to stop now to see if its of interest and to see if any of you want to weigh in.  Particularly I'd love to hear if I've hit on WD concerns.

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

I think "properly" and "professionally" fit are good terms.  Been through the whole process for irons with my teaching pro, who's also a pretty darned good fitter - it's not a short process but worth every penny. Tried a wide variety of shafts and heads from different manufacturers and if nothing else, left feeling confident I had the right set.

[hckymeyer]

I've been through a few different fittings now for both drivers and irons and I completely agree with your thoughts Rev, but there are still several ways to get there.

 

My fitter at the Kingdom watched me hit balls for a while and then handed me a driver to hit.  I hit a couple with it and he adjusted the loft, hit a couple more, swapped the head, hit a couple more and adjusted the loft again.  All done visually by watching the ball flight.  That's all it took, he nailed the shaft on the first try.  Then we hopped on the Trackman to confirm the results with numbers, made one more tweak to the loft and I had my perfect driver.  It was pretty amazing to see how good he was.  Being outdoors was most likely the key to this type of fitting though, hard to do a visual fitting if you are hitting into a net.

 

I've also done a few indoor fittings using a lot more technology.  I call this more of a shotgun approach.  The fitter will have an idea of where to start, but basically you hit a bunch of stuff and see what sticks.  Then take the ones that were good and keep dialing them in until you get where you want to be.  It's a little more time consuming to go this route, but if the guy is good the results will end up the same.  Both times I've done gone this route the fitting started with an interview process of what my current clubs are and checking the specs, what I like and don't like about them, what my misses and good shots were like and what I wanted to get out of the fitting. 

 

You should be able to tell in the first ten minutes of a fitting if it's going to be about you, your game and your desires...or if it's going to be about what the fitter wants to get out of it.

 

On the flip side I've bought irons from one of the big box stores and the fitting consisted of taking a few swings on a lie board and the guy saying "that looks good enough".  I don't do those types of fittings any more

 

I don't rely on Golf Digest for much when it comes to club recommendations, but I do think their Top 100 fitter list is a good place to start.  Then I tend to look for the smaller shops that have been around for a long time.  I figure if you run a small business it takes a lot to be able to stay in business for a long time.  You must be doing something right to still be around after 15-20 years.

[revkev]

Nice start and a couple of comments off of those offered.

 

I don't necessarily know that properly and professionally are synonyms here.  My fitting for the Mizuno irons were done by a professional - it was about him though, things at his shop are always about him, he even made the comment that he's the Artist and the player being fit the canvas and that he prefers a blank canvas - one with no opinion.  He's won fitter of the year for a major OEM twice - Honestly I think it's because he's knowledgable and because he's one of the few fitters on this side of the Penninsula - it's Florida, it's a county with 1 million people, you're going to sell a lot of clubs and do a lot of fittings if you are exclusive or close to it.

 

I think the best guys can do it by site and probably do best when doing it by site and then double checking with the numbers.  I got that treatment at the TMag performance center - actually I got a bigger fit than you guys all got - I got the half hour interview, suit him up, build an avatar, make a recommendation, build a model, take it outside, hit it outside, tweak it based on site and the outdoor monitor, tweak it again, again and again until it was right treatment.  Nothing could compare to that but it would cost $500 off the street.

 

Frankly given what you're normally going to get when you go to purchase a club I think I'd be safest if I could find a store that let me hit any club I want on the course and then bring it back if it didn't work.  I actually had that when I lived in Wisconsin.  If anyone here is anywhere near Sheboygan the pro shop at Town and Country is the very best I've ever seen.  Tons and tons of clubs, and then more that you don't see in the back, along with a course that you can take them out to test on - just give them your credit card and get it back at the end of the round.  No questions asked.  It's not a terrible way to do it if you know what you're doing.

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

Interesting point, Rev…guess it depends on how  you define "professional."  The fitter/artist may have been a "professional," but he was professional, if you catch my drift.  In my mind it's a mindset rather than a title.  It should be something you do with a customer, not to a customer...

[GolfSpy WD]

You could sub out teacher for fitter and the same would be true. I cannot stand the know it all type that don't listen. Empathy is a key skill a lot of pros don't seem to have.

 

My point though was that it wasn't all about the numbers. I talked to some of the fitters at the Kingdom and what they said was shafts will behave differently person to person, so you cannot just say shaft X is low launch low spin, so it'll fit someone who needs a low launch, low spin shaft. It's not that simple and it takes a lot of experience fitting golfers and understanding ball flight and swing dynamics.

 

Take HighFade for example. He has a 104mph swing speed, but he was fit for a R flex light shaft. That's really really soft, but it works for him. Then there's preference on how a shaft feels. I think you really need to take a goldilocks approach by trying a range of weights. If there's something a person really likes, they should be able to at least try it and the fitter should make the best effort to fit around it rather than tell the person it won't work. There's nothing wrong with saying something else would work better though and here is the difference between the best way to fit you for X and the best way to fit you for Y.

 

In a short amount of time, the fitter needs to be able to figure these things out. Most people don't have time or endurance to test all the combinations available and the fitter certainly doesn't have the time for that. The hard part is finding something that works and that you like. 

[RookieBlue7]

The problem is, good fitters are a dying breed because if we're being honest there's not a lot of money in it at all due to the big box stores, etc. A proper fitting isn't cheap. It takes time to do and do right. There are zero competent fitters I've run across within 50 Miles of me. There are some that carry a board full of certifications, yes, but their fitting skills are equal to that of an orangutang. "Hmm, umm, harrumph.... Uh huh that's it, now be on your way."

 

The sad thing is, there is one I'm friends with that works at a local big box that's got all the skills and knowledge and they've moved him to the clothing department as a manager. He started in the club building desk and has all his certifications there. They moved him to the club fitting area, where he applied his building skills knowledge base to fitting customers and he was damned good at it. (Not to mention he did everything required as far as classes to be an instructor save the final exam). Instead of replacing the manager of that department that knows as much about club fitting as I do about astrophysics, they advanced him to management and put him in a department that they shouldn't have because it's beneath him (sorry if we have any clothing department managers here. Not saying it's not a good job or anything, it's just below his skill set they sent him to school for and unrelated to it.) He should be at the fitting desk, managing it. And he's the only person I'll let touch my clubs or set up a monitor and show me my numbers or make suggestions based on them. Why? Because he knows what he's doing, he's educated in it, and he applies his knowledge to his job.

 

They'd hate me if I were a fitter at a big box because I wouldn't pass enough customers through my booth. I'm, personally, a perfectionist and am particular about these kind of things. And as such I'd spend too much attention on individual customers to be profitable to a big box. But, IMO, perfectionists are what the job of fitting demands. And as such those rare ones of a dying breed that have their own place have overhead to pay. The big box is taking any profitability they could potentially have out of the equation because people these days want faster and cheaper as opposed to methodical and more valuable.

[revkev]

My repair guy works at a big box and he is OCD. That's a good thing for club repair.

 

I think you guys are spot on WD and Rookie. My pro in Wisconsin could guess launch/spin rates from ball flight and run it. It was uncanny.

[wbealsd]

I think RevKev nails it here - "He spends some time talking to you about your game.  He looks at what you're currently playing, asks what you're trying to accomplish with it, what you'd like to change in regards to ball flight, what is appealing to your eyes and then he goes to work."

 

We really haven't had that in my area (since I started playing 10 years ago) until late last summer.  We were out at the driving range together, shortly after he took over the fitting for a local store and, after a few changes to my clubs, I was playing better a week later.  As word's gotten out, he's managed to stay busy over the winter and, with spring coming soon, more traffic as folks are getting ready for the upcoming season.

 

If things work out the way I hope they do, now that I'm retired, it looks like I may be able to put in some time as an "apprentice" with him this year.

 

Unfortunately, it's true that good fitters are hard to find and may indeed be a dying breed.  I DO hope that more players are becoming aware of how much difference a quality fitting makes to their game, there will be younger ones taking up the craft.

[SMRT]

The best "fitting" experience I had was playing a full 18 holes with a PGA Teaching Pro. It was set up as a training round. I used my existing equipment and during the round he just let me play as normal for the first few holes and then started pointing out swing issues and making equipment recommendations. I did not change equipment through the round so I do not think this is what most would consider a fitting but for me it turned into that more than a training session. It was not cheap but by far worth the money because it helped me modify my existing equipment to fit my swing once instead of multiple times trying different shafts and grips and wasting the money on that end.

 

Might be something to look into for someone having issues finding the correct "fitting" option that works the best for them.

[revkev]

The best "fitting" experience I had was playing a full 18 holes with a PGA Teaching Pro. It was set up as a training round. I used my existing equipment and during the round he just let me play as normal for the first few holes and then started pointing out swing issues and making equipment recommendations. I did not change equipment through the round so I do not think this is what most would consider a fitting but for me it turned into that more than a training session. It was not cheap but by far worth the money because it helped me modify my existing equipment to fit my swing once instead of multiple times trying different shafts and grips and wasting the money on that end.

 

Might be something to look into for someone having issues finding the correct "fitting" option that works the best for them.

The advantage to finding a good fitter is that he has access to lots of stuff for trial. The club pro is normally limited to what he stocks. Still lots of good options mind you. My first real fitting was about eight years ago with my pro in Wisconsin. The cool thing for me was he liked to play with me so I had tons of playing lessons. He schooled me formally and informally I guess. I did beat him once though!

 

Best of all he often makes it down here in early march for a stay and play at world woods with some other up north pros. If group has an odd number I get invited. No invite yet this year. I'm guessing he's holding out to see where the badgers are sent in this years hoops tournament. Don't blame him. He has a member on the hoops team. Sam dekker. I baptized that kid. He's grown a few inches since then.

[jaxbeachpackerfan]

 

Best of all he often makes it down here in early march for a stay and play at world woods with some other up north pros. If group has an odd number I get invited. No invite yet this year. I'm guessing he's holding out to see where the badgers are sent in this years hoops tournament. Don't blame him. He has a member on the hoops team. Sam dekker. I baptized that kid. He's grown a few inches since then.

My other common screen name is JaxBeachBadgerFan--Sam's the man!  So you baptized a future lottery pick!  Quite an item for your resume!  Did you 'dunk' him?

[Rickles]

My other common screen name is JaxBeachBadgerFan--Sam's the man! So you baptized a future lottery pick! Quite an item for your resume! Did you 'dunk' him?

I think he's the wrong denomination for dunking. I think he sprinkled him. It was more like a finger roll.

[revkev]

When it comes to infants I do kind of an inbetween - So it was as if I went up for the dunk but sort of dropped it in alla the NCAA in the Bill Walton and before era. 

 

The Dekker family is a wonderful family.  Very active at my old church.  Dad Todd and Mom Carol were public school teachers, Todd coached at the Lutheran High in town, son John was a classmate of my two sons - their 8th grade basketball team won the entire North Central (Wisconsin, Illinois, Minnesota, Iowa, the Dakotas) region for Lutheran Schools as they did again in Sam's 8th grade year.  Great people - it's such a trip to see Sam on TV and for that matter on the occasion that they show his parents it's really a kick.  Carol is a facebook friend and we frequently touch base.

 

I've seen mocks with Sam going in the 1st round but I can't even begin to image that he would leave before he graduates.  So you should have two more years with him at UW.

[Maverickping]

Nice question, my experiences. Went to Ping HQ Canada when I played Pings, these guys know what they're doing. Been to the small shop (PCS clubmaker) he knew what was going on. The big box store, not for me... Last place and where I will never venture from is Modern Golf, has everything to make your dream come true. Equipment and the experience from doing this on the European Tour and PGA and are very concerned about getting the right "fit" for you.

All of the good people I've seen all ask about your game, your goals etc.

[revkev]

Nice question, my experiences. Went to Ping HQ Canada when I played Pings, these guys know what they're doing. Been to the small shop (PCS clubmaker) he knew what was going on. The big box store, not for me... Last place and where I will never venture from is Modern Golf, has everything to make your dream come true. Equipment and the experience from doing this on the European Tour and PGA and are very concerned about getting the right "fit" for you.

All of the good people I've seen all ask about your game, your goals etc.

I'd say that the asking about the game and goals is huge.