I ain't Tiger Woods so ......

[RoverRick]

I ain't Tiger Woods, or Rory, or Adam or Jordan or even Freddie, so why am I trying to swing like them.

 

I am almost 50 with a bad back so why am I trying to learn to swing a golf club like them.  Ok, Freddie is obvious because he also has a bad back.

 

In 2011, I was a year or so into my 5 year quest to go from a 30+ capper to a scratch golfer.  I had the putting and short game down, so it was time to address the full swing issues.  Early release, coming over the top, along with poor fundamentals.  Time to take a full swing lesson.  I took one and, before the next week rolled around for lesson number 2, I was laid up in bed for two months having aggravated an old back injury.  Aggravated, like hell, I pissed it off like you would not believe.  During the time I was lying around I found MyGolfSpy and have been here every since.

 

I have spent the past 3 years studying the proper golf swing, and know what I am supposed to do and have really tried to work do it.  Actually, I can make the perfect golf swing.  Once. 

 

We all know that the only way to keep from coming over the top is to move the lower body out of the way to create room.  Some say slide, some say turn, some say set up with it already out of the way and tilt.  But that ain't working for me.  To move the lower body out from under the upper body one must bend the spine in position that simply does not work for me. 

 

My natural tendency it to come over the top and hit with the hands.  Most popular teaching say these are no / nos. 

 

 

Then Big Bomber posts a thread on here about Lee Comeaux. 

 

He is sort of a trip to watch but basically he advocates:

1. 10 finger grip.  With pressure in the right hand.
2. set up with left foot flared and right foot back.
3. pick the club up with the right hand as you turn up to the top.
4. start the downswing by straightening the right arm
5. and slap the ball with the right hand at impact.
6. and continue turning to a full finish.

 

Now this is simplified and quite honestly, he is a hell of a ball striker and a poor teacher.   There are some links on this other thread that I had to read to decide if this was a good fit for me.  Lee pounds ball after ball after ball and really all he is saying is hit the freaking ball.  Who cares if you are coming over the top.  It is a powerful hit and it takes the right side of the course out of play.  Make some minor adjustments to the set up and hit the freaking ball.

 

So after some practice at home yesterday, I headed out to the course today.  I intended to spend time on the range but hate hitting on the range so I simply went out on the course to see how it worked. 

 

I decided early on that the hybrids will not be going back out to the course for a while.  Hybrids generally have a draw bias to begin with and this is a hybrid hooking swing.  As a matter of fact, I will not even mess with trying to hit a 3 wood for a while.  All irons (2-L) and a driver at least the next few days.

 

I hit high, straight, and powerful shots all day. 

 

I will report back tomorrow about this but I do want to get one point across to all the spies.  You have to make the best of what you have.  Just because conventional wisdom says that over the top and using the hands is bad, does not mean it is not the best for you.

 

"Take the small muscles out of it because they are not dependable under pressure."  Well, if I have to make a shot for a million dollars, the sphincter muscle is the one I am most concerned about.

[Blade]

Hope it works for you Rick. That guy's videos are so incoherent it's hard to get much out of them. But boy does he flush shot after shot.

 

Dave Tutelman did quite a write up on the merits of that method. You may want to read it. I do great with using more right hand now, but only if I don't think about it. If I think about how to move, everything falls apart. As long as I just focus on what I want the club head to do, the rest seems to take care of itself.

[MarcKilgore]

The guy hits the snot out of the ball, but he seems a bit "off" in the videos I've seen.

[RoverRick]

I read the Dave Tutelman thing. That is the only thing that gave this merit originally. Enough for me to try it. And like I said, Lee ain't much of a teacher but heck of a ball striker.

[jpcgolf]

My teacher always says to start the downswing hands first, and don't move your hips out of the way.  He says to swing out to first base and you will get a nice high draw.  He tells me to stay behind the ball when you hit it, and don't spin or slide out with your hips.

[Lonnie96]

 

Here rover. .. This one helped a lot

 

Good luck on the journey... So far driver is still hard for me to hit with this.. Other clubs I'm doing pretty well.

[JBones]

My teacher always says to start the downswing hands first, and don't move your hips out of the way.  He says to swing out to first base and you will get a nice high draw.  He tells me to stay behind the ball when you hit it, and don't spin or slide out with your hips.

Let me tell you what "swinging to first base" has done for me.  It's lead to the S word with anything that isn't a full shot.  I watch my cousin, who is a +3 and NCAA D1 player, as well as pros and they all "swing to the left" (I'm sure you've heard that phrase countless times).  Their divots even go left, but their ball flight is always straight-ish.  When I "swing to the left", I feel like I'm coming over the top, but my ball flight is dead straight; I can then move the ball a little back or forward to hit the fade/draw.

[RoverRick]

Day 2 with this swing.

 

Temp 44*, wind from southeast at 16 mph and light showers periodically.  (A cold rainy B!tch)

 

12/14 Fairways.  8/18 greens in regulation.  29 putts.  Score was 75.

 

In the middle of the round I simply lost my swing for 3 holes and had two double bogies and a bogey.  These were concentration errors more than anything.  The two missed fairways, which lead to missed greens, were from trying to avoid a dozen worker pouring concrete for a cart path, good swing, just too close to a tree and left myself 287 to the flag. and the other one was from a bad swing. 

 

All in all, I had long high, straight shots all day and my back felt great after the round.  It is not often that on the second day of swing changes I have that many good shots.  However, I should point out again that this swing method takes advantage of what are common misses in my other swings I have tried.

[RoverRick]

I thought it was going to rain all day, but it has yet to really start.  But I was doing some putting in the house when I decided to run out and see how many holes I could play.  Well, I got in 18 but upon arriving at the first green I realized I did not have my putter.  It was in the house on the putting green.

 

But 11/12 Fairways today and 12/18 GIR.  It is a shame I left my putter home because with my normal putting I would have been about par today.  I had 3 almost pick up birdies.  And did chip in on one of the missed greens.  Oh well, always tomorrow.

 

New swing is great on the back which is what really counts.

[L.I. Rich]

I tried this swing today. I was interested because I tend to spray with my irons and am trying to tighten the dispersion.

 

The result was a mixed bag really. Continued with Vardon grip. Irons were very crisp, about the same distances, VERY high, and quite accurate. My 3 hybrid, which I carry but rarely use because when I miss, it's usually a penalty, was actually long and reliable. Driver was a disaster. I had to use a traditional swing to avoid massive slices, and switching back just for the driver in mid-round was tough.

 

I also had some trouble with partial wedge shots. Great contact, but my usual checkpoints were no longer valid. Back swing length wasn't as useful, because the "slap" accelerates so quickly.

 

Is the driver swing supposed to be the same? I could not avoid OTT slice.

[RoverRick]

Continued with Vardon grip.....

 

My 3 hybrid, which I carry but rarely use because when I miss, it's usually a penalty, was actually long and reliable.

 

Driver was a disaster. I had to use a traditional swing to avoid massive slices, and switching back just for the driver in mid-round was tough.

 

I also had some trouble with partial wedge shots. Great contact, but my usual checkpoints were no longer valid. Back swing length wasn't as useful, because the "slap" accelerates so quickly.

 

Is the driver swing supposed to be the same? I could not avoid OTT slice.

 

The Vardon Grip may have something to do with it.  Keep in mind that the purpose of the Vardon (Overlap) and the Interlock grips are to keep the hands acting as one unit.  This swing actually has the left hand pulling the butt of the club and the right hand pushing the head of the club.  A short movement of the hands is multiplied down the length of the shaft. 

 

The hybrid, depending on make and model, may be the hardest to hit initially.  They are traditionally designed to keep the long shots from trailing off to the right.  This is a problem with long irons and since they for the most part are designed to replace them, the toe closes very easily.  However, this swing closes the toe easily.  I found my hybrids are so easy to pull hook with this swing that they have been replaced, at least for now, with long irons.  If you can remember to let the club do the work, which I admit to have trouble with, than hybrids are great. 

 

I am also dropping the 3 wood for the time being.  I did hit it today, and thought I had broken the shaft because I felt it kick so hard.  It generated so much spin that I watched the ball land in the middle of the fairway and suck back like a wedge.  The spin also robbed me of the distance.  I will address this later on but have a pretty full plate.  I can hit the FLI HI 2 as far as the 3 wood with this swing.

 

With the long irons I also have to allow the club to do the work, but a mishit with them tends to be a topped shot.  With the hybrid, it is a 50 yard pull hook.

 

NOW, for the driver.  Yes, you can use this swing with the driver, and it is an awesome driver swing, but only if you want long and straight drives.  However, it sounds like you are turning the body to quickly.  I did, who am I kidding, DO this often, but have only been doing this swing for three days so I am far from an expert.  Remember you are adding a tremendous amount of clubhead speed with the hands.  In this swing the hands are doing the work.  If you try to accelerate the body as you would with passive hands you can end up out of sync. 

 

I find that I need to slow the body down to deliver the club more squarely.  This is with every club but obviously the longer the club the more that is the case.  I am certainly not giving up any distance by doing this.  I had several shots today that were much longer than I normally hit them. 

 

As for the short and partial shots, yes.  This renders all known short game shot distances null and void.  I will probably use the Vardon grip and the arms only pitching swing this weekend until I can learn the new distances. 

[L.I. Rich]

Thanks for your thoughts Rick, and good luck with your efforts; 

 

I'm going to have to take this to the range for further testing; my gut is to give it one bucket of balls to show results before abandoning.  Golf is hard enough without completely confusing my body with different swing techniques.

 

With my "traditional" swing, my instructor really couldn't identify why I was missing my target line as much as I do.  He'd look the stills of all my positions at various points of the swing and basically said that nothing is really wrong.  I just wasn't getting consistent face/path confluence at impact.  Frustrating.  So, I was thrilled that the first 30 shots I hit at the range with GW - 4i were all straight and consistent distances.  On the course, it was much trickier making shots.

[Lonnie96]

Driver is tough , no matter what method u you use. Just need to find and master your slam point.

[RoverRick]

So, I was thrilled that the first 30 shots I hit at the range with GW - 4i were all straight and consistent distances. 

 

The first 30 shots with the irons were straignt and consistent distances???  and you will give it just one more bucket of balls???  If you are like me, you have a lifetime of hearing different swing theories.  One plane, two plane, hybrid.  One piece takeaway, early wrist set, no wrist set.

 

The principle here is to swing slowly and hit hard.  IF this feels good to you, you are a hitter and should stick with it.if it does not then you are a swinger and need to go elsewhere.  Since you had good results with the irons, than this may be for you.  Irons are much more important than anything but wedges, which are simply partial iron shots, and putting. 

[L.I. Rich]

I was just getting to the point where I wasn't have a lot of mental clutter standing at address.  Adding this to the mix introduces mental clutter, uncertainty, and second-guessing in the middle of the swing.  That usually doesn't turn out so good for me. So, if I try to adhere to KISS, I will want to do this for every full shot, or not.

 

It did feel surprisingly good right off the bat and I did hit some really nice iron and hybrid shots.  But, I could not hit a partial wedge with any consistency in distance, and I banana'd the heck out of some drives.

 

We shall see.  I do look forward to you continuing to post on this Rick.

[RoverRick]

53 minutes until I head out to my first competitive round with this swing.  I better take my putter this time.  Haha

[Mr_Theoo]

53 minutes until I head out to my first competitive round with this swing. I better take my putter this time. Haha

Good luck

[RoverRick]

It was feast or famine on the course today.  Alternated between 5 birdies and 6 double bogies.  Short game was horrible.  Way to many swing thoughts got in the way today.  But when I did hit the ball solidly it went far and straight.

 

Tomorrow's goal is to not have swing thoughts.  I spent 45 minutes on the range before the round, this is my first time on the range, and I am pretty sure it caused more problems than it solved.

 

Edit:  I got confused on my take away and set up a little today which lead to major malfunctions.  Worked on that this evening and feel like I will be back on track in the morning.

[RoverRick]

Played 36 holes today and swing is coming around. Not happy with the contact with the irons but the driver is awesome.

[L.I. Rich]

Can I ask you if your driver setup with the cmotion swing is the same as your irons?  I've been having a lot of trouble not slicing the driver.   In my attempts to try this swing on for size, I've been keeping my weight left at address, lead foot pointing out, folding the right arm on the backswing, while trying to keep the sternum pointing at the ball.  I'm not trying to rotate around my spine, so as my sternum at address is basically pointing at the ball, as I pick the club up and fold the right arm, I try to resist with the chest.

 

Anyway, that process seems to work for just about every other club in my bag.  The 4i is a little balky, but it's manageable with some other footwork modifications, but the driver just does not want to listen at this point.

[Blade]

If you're trying to keep your sternum at the ball, that's an arms only swing. That doesn't sound right. But I don't know the ins and outs of this "swing".

[RoverRick]

Can I ask you if your driver setup with the cmotion swing is the same as your irons?  I've been having a lot of trouble not slicing the driver.   In my attempts to try this swing on for size, I've been keeping my weight left at address, lead foot pointing out, folding the right arm on the backswing, while trying to keep the sternum pointing at the ball.  I'm not trying to rotate around my spine, so as my sternum at address is basically pointing at the ball, as I pick the club up and fold the right arm, I try to resist with the chest.

 

I am not hitting my irons as well as I was on the first 2-3 days with this, but have absolutely nailed the driver.  I played 36 holes today and 95% of my drives were long and straight down the middle of the fairway.  I would not say that I am keeping my weight left.  I am not shifting my weight much at all and keep it pretty much centered.

 

From your description I would say you are turning the body too fast.  You get too fast with the body and the should open before hit the ball, resulting in a slice.  Swing slow and hit hard.  Once you develop the proper sequence you can start building speed with the body also.  The 5% I was talking about missing was from turning too fast.

[RoverRick]

And I forgot to mention this, as a side effect, I am also hitting my 3 wood off the deck better than ever.  Same set up as the driver except no tee.  Not hitting the hybrids too well but I am installing different hybrids in the bag to tomorrow.  909H are a bit more user friendly than Adams Pro Black.

[L.I. Rich]

Thanks Rick, I think you're right about turning too darn fast.

 

Blade, I know that's what I describe, an arms-only swing, but it's not really. It is hard to describe the golf swing in precise terms, so I'm saying what I'm feeling.  Jim McClean has his x-factor, the delta between the shoulder turn and the hip turn.  I'm describing a similar feeling.  My right side is picking up the club and folding it back, and just to the left, the sternum is trying to resist..

[Blade]

Thanks Rick, I think you're right about turning too darn fast.

 

Blade, I know that's what I describe, an arms-only swing, but it's not really. It is hard to describe the golf swing in precise terms, so I'm saying what I'm feeling. Jim McClean has his x-factor, the delta between the shoulder turn and the hip turn. I'm describing a similar feeling. My right side is picking up the club and folding it back, and just to the left, the sternum is trying to resist..

Oh, I see. Yea, I didn't think that sounded right.

[RoverRick]

Well, we got an early start this morning and I arrived late, hit about 4 iron on the range, which were perfect, and about 3 drivers, also perfect and rushed to the first tee.

 

Driver and Fairway Metals were awesome.  Wedges were OK, straight but distance was not what I would like.  Putter was good today, but full iron shots were still horrible.  So after 4 holes, I abandoned them.  I simply did not hit a full iron shot on the course.  Half and 3/4 irons got me through the rounds, played two today, and did not loose money.  I will now spend the week, especially early in the week, working on the irons.

 

Driver and FM's I was able to hit high or low, or straight or draw or fade or whatever I wanted to do with it.  Probably with a 265 average, wet and windy today.  And most important my back feels the best it has in years (2) after golf.  I will work out the iron issues.  Just no time today.

[Blade]

That's great about the back. What was happening with the irons, fat shots or something else?

[L.I. Rich]

I went to the range yesterday, and as I've said on another thread, just couldn't figure out the driver with the cmotion/austin/shauger swing.  All else was pretty darn good.  I'm supposed to play Saturday, and may not get a chance to hit until then, so I'm basically dying, waiting to get to a course...

 

By the way, looking at Loupe at the Valero... how the heck is he going to avoid injury with the violent rotation he's putting on his spine?

[RoverRick]

That's great about the back. What was happening with the irons, fat shots or something else?

 

Mainly, improper address, over-rotation in the back swing, and swaying.  This evening I watched the videos again and saw where with the irons there is minimal body rotation.  Earlier in the week, when I was flushing the irons, I had this down, but I am pretty sure I was overswinging today, and swaying. 

 

Had I been able to spend a day at the range, I might have gotten this sorted before the weekend, but I had two practice rounds before engaging in 18, 36, and 27 holes for money.  I ended up breaking even on the bets for the weekend so I am pretty happy about this.  I should also tell that most of the credit for that is because my competition did not play especially well.

[Lonnie96]

Rick..no matter the competition..you sound like you are playing some good golf.

 

Keep up the nice playing