Jump to content
Testers Wanted: RUNNER Golf and Byrdie Golf Design ×

Driving into a lateral water hazard or out of bounds


myndcraft

Recommended Posts

I recently joined a weekly 9-hole league; hurray me! 

 

Last week during league we have one particular hole that has a narrow fairway and on the left is a water hazard (I assume it's classified as lateral because you do not drive over it) and on the right a housing development and the yards are white staked. 

 

One person in my group hit in the water and another into a back yard.  When this happens it's a 1-stroke penalty, but what are the options here.  According to the final player in my group, the course owner, they have to re-tee.  Something about some USGA ruling.

 

Can anyone provide some clarification here?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The score card should list the water on the right as out of bounds, and the white stakes need to be on the course side of the water.  The water should be marked as yellow or red but even if it is not here is a rule.

 

Rule 33-2 Water Hazard not Marked

Q.  In playing the 7th hole, Tom`s tee shot comes to rest in a creek running parallel to the hole. The creek is not marked. He can not proceed under option b in Rule 26-1 as it is not feasible to drop the ball behind the creek. Must Tom replay his tee shot?

A.  No. The Committee has erred in properly marking the course. As the creek meets the Definition of a "Lateral Water Hazard," he may proceed under Rule 26-1c. Rule 33-2 requires that the Committee accurately define the bounds and margins of the course. This includes all out of bounds, water hazards and lateral water hazards, ground under repair, and obstructions and integral parts of the course.

:ping-small:G430LST 10.5° on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small:G430MAX 3w  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

:L.A.B.:DF2.1 on :accra: White

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The score card should list the water on the right as out of bounds, and the white stakes need to be on the course side of the water.  The water should be marked as yellow or red but even if it is not here is a rule.

 

Rule 33-2 Water Hazard not Marked

Q.  In playing the 7th hole, Tom`s tee shot comes to rest in a creek running parallel to the hole. The creek is not marked. He can not proceed under option b in Rule 26-1 as it is not feasible to drop the ball behind the creek. Must Tom replay his tee shot?

A.  No. The Committee has erred in properly marking the course. As the creek meets the Definition of a "Lateral Water Hazard," he may proceed under Rule 26-1c. Rule 33-2 requires that the Committee accurately define the bounds and margins of the course. This includes all out of bounds, water hazards and lateral water hazards, ground under repair, and obstructions and integral parts of the course.

 

 

So I followed that up to a point…

 

I agree that rule 33-2 requires the margins of water hazards and lateral water hazards to be marked.  Rule 26-1 is where you lose me

 

It is a question of fact whether a ball that has not been found after having been struck toward a water hazard is in the hazard. In the absence of knowledge or virtual certainty that a ball struck toward a water hazard, but not found, is in the hazard, the player must proceed under Rule 27-1.

 

If a ball is found in a water hazard or if it is known or virtually certain that a ball that has not been found is in the water hazard (whether the ball lies in water or not), the player may under penalty of one stroke:

a. Proceed under the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1 by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or

 

b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or

 

c. As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole.

 

 

 

So option A is available, but you suggest is not the proper course of action (or thats how I read). Option B is how we are playing, which I originally did not think was right.  Option C -- Just to make sure I'm reading this right the player can basically drop outside the water right?   Any idea why the club owner would say you HAD to re-tee?

 

Here is the hole layout for reference

Hole.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

    Any idea why the club owner would say you HAD to re-tee?

 

Unless that water hazard is marked OB you should not HAVE to re-tee.  You should be able to drop it 2 club-lengths from where the red line and the water meet (option C).

 

The blue tee shot is OB so that is stroke & distance.

MENTOR, L4 COACH & TRAINER  FIRST TEE GREATER HOUSTON
HDCP: 8.3  (GHIN: 3143312)
In my bag, April 2023
:titelist-small: TS3 Driver & 4 Wood Hzrdous Smoke Shaft (Stiff Flex)
:titelist-small: TS2 Hybrids  Mitsubishi Tensei Shaft (Stiff Flex)
:mizuno-small:  MP-59 5-PW; KBS Tour (Regular Flex)
:titelist-small: SM8 Wedges

EVNROLL ER2  Putter
SRIXON Z-STAR DIAMOND BALL
Sun Mountain Cart Bag
:Clicgear: 4.0 Push Cart (I'm walking 9 outta 10 rounds!!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Here is the hole layout for reference

Hole.jpg

 

I totally misunderstood.  The water is left and OB is right. I thought that both of them were right.  No question Player 2 has to re-tee.  Player 1, appears to have hit into a lateral water hazard and has the 3 options above.  However, if it was just a water hazard, not lateral, there are only two options.  Option C is only available on a lateral water hazard.   You are saying that "They" I assume the committee, is saying you must re-tee, because it practical to drop behind the water in the diagram.

 

To me this is clearly a lateral water hazard, however, if the committee, chooses not to label it as a Lateral Water Hazard, then it is not one.  And should be marked with yellow stakes.  Red stakes you have option C.  Drop within two club lengths.  Yellow, is re-tee or drop BEHIND.  If they decide not to make it a Lateral Hazard, and option B is not practical (which is the whole reason for having a lateral hazard) then they only option is A.

 

 

 

Lateral Water Hazard

A “lateral water hazard” is a water hazard or that part of a water hazard so situated that it is not possible, or is deemed by the Committee to be impracticable, to drop a ball behind the water hazard in accordance with Rule 26-Ib. All ground and water within the margin of a lateral water hazard are part of the lateral water hazard.

 

When the margin of a lateral water hazard is defined by stakes, the stakes are inside the lateral water hazard, and the margin of the hazard is defined by the nearest outside points of the stakes at ground level. When both stakes and lines are used to indicate a lateral water hazard, the stakes identify the hazard and the lines define the hazard margin. When the margin of a lateral water hazard is defined by a line on the ground, the line itself is in the lateral water hazard. The margin of a lateral water hazard extends vertically upwards and downwards.

A ball is in a lateral water hazard when it lies in or any part of it touches the lateral water hazard.

Stakes used to define the margin of or identify a lateral water hazard are obstructions.

Note 1: That part of a water hazard to be played as a lateral water hazard must be distinctively marked. Stakes or lines used to define the margin of or identify a lateral water hazard must be red.

Note 2: The Committee may make a Local Rule prohibiting play from an environmentally-sensitive area defined as a lateral water hazard.

Note 3: The Committee may define a lateral water hazard as a water hazard.

:ping-small:G430LST 10.5° on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small:G430MAX 3w  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

:L.A.B.:DF2.1 on :accra: White

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bottom line, no stakes, no lines, it's a lateral hazard regardless of what the owner says. He needs to clearly mark the hazard yellow if that's what he or the committee desire. Just because you own the course doesn't mean you own the game.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm confused on option B. I have always thought you can drop backing up as far as you want on the line your ball took where it crossed the hazard. Say the lateral hazard is a creek. Getting behind it keeping the crossing point between you and the hole may not be possible. But dropping on the line between the crossing point and the tee, or wherever that shot was hit from would be. Am I confusing that option with something else? What are the options if it's staked yellow?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm confused on option B. I have always thought you can drop backing up as far as you want on the line your ball took where it crossed the hazard. Say the lateral hazard is a creek. Getting behind it keeping the crossing point between you and the hole may not be possible. But dropping on the line between the crossing point and the tee, or wherever that shot was hit from would be. Am I confusing that option with something else? What are the options if it's staked yellow?

 

In this case, the ball entered the water on the same side of the hazard as the flag is on.  IF this is a lateral water hazard (which in reality it should be) then you can drop anywhere along the line where in entered the hazard.  IF it is not a lateral, just a water hazard, then

 

b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or

 

 

So, if you can keep the spot where in crossed the hazard, and the flag in line, than you can go back as far as you want.  But if the flag and the place where it crossed the margin of the hazard are on the same side, than you have to drop with in two club lengths of the entry spot, or the opposite side.

:ping-small:G430LST 10.5° on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small:G430MAX 3w  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

:L.A.B.:DF2.1 on :accra: White

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 What are the options if it's staked yellow?

 

Yellow stakes are options A&B.  Red stakes add option C.

:ping-small:G430LST 10.5° on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small:G430MAX 3w  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

:L.A.B.:DF2.1 on :accra: White

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm confused on option B. I have always thought you can drop backing up as far as you want on the line your ball took where it crossed the hazard. Say the lateral hazard is a creek. Getting behind it keeping the crossing point between you and the hole may not be possible. But dropping on the line between the crossing point and the tee, or wherever that shot was hit from would be. Am I confusing that option with something else? What are the options if it's staked yellow?

you have to make a line from the flag, and where the ball crossed into the hazard, and then go back

Driver:  Taylormade 2017 M2 9.5 degree head played at 8 degrees.  Fujikura speeder evolution tour spec x flex shaft tipped 1/4 inch.  

 

3-Wood: 15 degree M2 tour.  Fujikura pro 73 tour spec X flex shaft.  

 

Mizuno H5 2 iron.

 

4 iron: mizuno mp h4 4 iron dynamic gold s300

 

5-pw iron: mizuno mp 54 dynamic gold s300

 

52, 56, 60 wedges: cleveland 588 rotex cavity

 

putter: 34 inch nike method 00 half circle mallet putter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

I guess I misunderstood this as well.  On my course, there are four holes, doglegs, with water running the length of the hole, tee to green, on the inside of the dogleg.  This course, TPC Valley, is somewhat unique in that almost all the water holes have steep slopes down to the water.  The line for the water hazard (red) is usually painted 3 feet from the water.  Two driver club lengths still leaves you standing with the ball way above (or below) your feet, in thick bermuda rough.  Trying to advance the ball with a steep sidehill lie out of deep rough (with water still very much in play) is extremely challenging.  On the dogleg holes, particularly if you are far enough back, you are able to line up the flag with the point where the ball crossed the hazard and get a level lie.  It might be 20 yards back, but worth it to get the level lie.  We have been playing that rule in our group as long as I can remember.  But what I'm reading above is that this option is not available for red marked hazards.  Am I reading that correctly?  

Nonchalant putts count the same as chalant putts.

In my Ogio Ozone XX Cart Stand Bag:

Ping G400 10.5 Deg Driver, stock Stiff shaft
TM Rocketballz 19 Deg 5 Wood, stock Matrix Osik Stiff shaft
TM Rocketballz Stage 2 21 Deg Tour 4 Hybrid, Rocketfuel 80h Stiff shaft 

Callaway Apex CF 16 Irons, 4-P, Stiff Shafts
 
Scor 48 and 55 degree wedges.  
Renegar 60 Deg Steel Shaft Lob Wedge

TM Ghost Spider Si 38" Counterbalanced Putter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Am I reading that correctly?  

No.  Options A or B for yellow stakes (hazard).  A, B, or C for red stakes (lateral hazard).

 

In other words, the red stakes add the third option of 2 club lengths from the entry point, but the first 2 options are still available.

MENTOR, L4 COACH & TRAINER  FIRST TEE GREATER HOUSTON
HDCP: 8.3  (GHIN: 3143312)
In my bag, April 2023
:titelist-small: TS3 Driver & 4 Wood Hzrdous Smoke Shaft (Stiff Flex)
:titelist-small: TS2 Hybrids  Mitsubishi Tensei Shaft (Stiff Flex)
:mizuno-small:  MP-59 5-PW; KBS Tour (Regular Flex)
:titelist-small: SM8 Wedges

EVNROLL ER2  Putter
SRIXON Z-STAR DIAMOND BALL
Sun Mountain Cart Bag
:Clicgear: 4.0 Push Cart (I'm walking 9 outta 10 rounds!!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No.  Options A or B for yellow stakes (hazard).  A, B, or C for red stakes (lateral hazard).

 

In other words, the red stakes add the third option of 2 club lengths from the entry point, but the first 2 options are still available.

My bad, mind is a little clearer now.  Wrote the above post after a beer and two rum runners at the Ocean Grille watching all the bikini beach babes walk by.  Full disclosure, wife was with me watching all the surfer dudes walk by.  

Nonchalant putts count the same as chalant putts.

In my Ogio Ozone XX Cart Stand Bag:

Ping G400 10.5 Deg Driver, stock Stiff shaft
TM Rocketballz 19 Deg 5 Wood, stock Matrix Osik Stiff shaft
TM Rocketballz Stage 2 21 Deg Tour 4 Hybrid, Rocketfuel 80h Stiff shaft 

Callaway Apex CF 16 Irons, 4-P, Stiff Shafts
 
Scor 48 and 55 degree wedges.  
Renegar 60 Deg Steel Shaft Lob Wedge

TM Ghost Spider Si 38" Counterbalanced Putter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually I'm glad this thread got revived.  When I have the chance I'm going to ask our pro but we have a hole on our course where there are hazards that are marked red on both sides of the fairway. 

 

One of those hazards, the one on the left runs the entire length and then behind the green.  However it's impossible to drop within two club lengths no closer to the hole when the pin is in position that brings that hazard into play and its impossible to drop behind the hazard because the Bayou widens into a lake at that point.  It seems to effectively become a ball OB despite he red marking. In my opinion they need to create a drop area for all balls that go into the hazard behind that green.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's my point Kenny, A is the only available option so why not just mark it OB and be done with it.  Worse though is that it's blind.  The green has a hump in the middle of it and then there is a back section that runs away from the player towards the hazard.  There is some room behind the green up unless the rough is thick and or wet there is a pretty good chance that anything long is going in the hazard and the player won't see it happen.  So you make your way to the green thinking that you've hit a pretty good shot only to find that your ball was a bit long or caught the down side of the hump, went over the green and is gone, back you go to the middle of the fairway.  It seems like there should be a better option provided.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...