Ryder Cup - Making the US winners again

[westy]

Ok I left it alone for a week, to see what sort of reaction would crop up - on MGS a very little is the answer! Different elsewhere I note. I assume that's not because MGS readers don't care - it may just be resignation.

 

So how do the US go about turning round the recent record of Team Europe? So rather than some of the cr@p I've heard chucked out about expanding the US team, making based solely on tours or place of residence how about some useful ideas?

 

I thought about this and here's a few thoughts, none of which are intended to offend or deride individuals.

 

1. A younger captain. Nope I'm not bashing Tom (legend), but how many players in the team know him well from day to day on the tour? Europe have faired well with McGinley - he's still playing lots with them and understands. The last unsuccessful european captain was Faldo who clearly wasn't that in touch with his team. So in two years how about someone still on tour?

 

2. Pick your extra players after the FedEx has finished! US team didn't end up picking players in form and left some behind who were in great nick.

 

3. More relevant vice captains. Let's be fair, anyone who saw Harrington, olazabal, Torrance and Jiminez walking the course knows they had a massive impact for Europe (not sure about Des Smyth!). even the U.S. supporters were cheering Jiminez. Watson looked short of relevant support to me.

 

4. Some practice at Foursomes? Not much to argue about there, it's a great format that balances nicely with four ball. I'd argue the pairings might have been the reason for the awful performance here though.

 

It would not have taken much for this ryder cup to be very close indeed.....what do you think might help?

[RoverRick]

Thanks for starting this Westy.  I was not sure if anyone else still cared. I have spent most of the week on the road while listening to the PGA on XM Radio and mentally composing my post for the thread I was going to call, "When I become Captain America."  I will instead post it here.

 

In this post, however, my thoughts on this Ryder Cup.  I feel the last leadership is responsible for the loss of 1 1/2 points at least.  I am a Spieth fan and now a Reed fan also, but Saturday afternoon, there did not appear to be a Captain or Vice Captain walking with the players during the match keeping the two young rookies calm and focused.  Reed missing that putt and the subsequent frenzy that the next holes were played in was because they were trying to get that hole back when they did not need it.  No one not under the pressure of not having to make those shots was there to point it out to them.

 

On Sunday, while Spieth had gotten out to a 3 hole lead, GMac made a couple of great putts cutting it to one stroke.  While earlier there were 4 or 5 or 6 red marks on the board when he had a 3 stroke lead, if Spieth looked at the board right then he would have seen that only one other match was in the red.  It had to be a me against the world, and I am letting down my country feeling.  He then started to press and really blew the next hole.  Still, at least on TV, there was no leadership intervention.  He was just going to have to play better and thus lost.

 

The only time I saw anyone take an active role not playing was Phil offering support on Saturday.

 

OK, next post here will be "When I become Captain America."

[RoverRick]

I am sitting by the phone because I expect the call at any moment asking me to be the captain, so "When I am Captain America" here is what I will do.

 

I think it is safe to assume that Phil Mickelson, Tiger Woods, Jim Furyk, and Zach Johnson will likely be on the next Ryder Cup.  The junior guy has made it 4 times  These guys are my Pod Leaders.  Each one of them will have two other player and a Vice Captain (of their choosing) that they are with the entire weekend.  The Vice Captain's roll is to keep the Captain informed and to offer advice to the Pod Leader from the sidelines.

 

We know the format is 4 Foursomes and 4 Fourball matches on Friday and Saturday and then Singles on Sunday.  That is the reason for the 4 Pods of 3 rather than the 3 Pods of 4.

 

Each Pod will play in 1 Foursome and 1 Fourball match each day.  Therefore, with three players, obviously one will be sitting out a round.  The Pod Leader, being the oldest is expected to sit out one of these matches and may only play 3 matches all weekend, but be there for the other matches to offer his support and leadership.  The youngest guys on the team could play in all 5 matches but it is my preference that they all play 4 matches each counting singles.  The order and number play will really be up to the Pod and Pod Leader.  They are responsible to tell the Captain who the best players are to put out for any given match.

 

If a Pod Leader is unable to play when Cup time rolls around because of injury he will become the Vice Captain.

 

It is also safe to assume that the likes of Mahan, Kuchar, even DJ if he can keep his nose to the grindstone instead of the other stuff, will be long term fixtures.  These will be my Pod leaders in future years.

 

If you are a Ryder Cup wanna be, it is incumbent on you to play practice rounds with one or more of these Pod Leaders or other past members.  It is up to you, as a young player to catch their eye, and prove to them you have what it takes to be on the team with them.

 

The concept of playing for Country is too vast.  The Euros do not play for country, they play for there partners, their team, their Captain, or even for their wife because they want her to be proud of them on their anniversary (GMac sited this as his inspiration on the back 9 against Speith,)  Each Pod member will be playing for their other Pod member.

 

My Captain's Picks-  After the automatic qualifiers are in, I sit down with the Pod Leaders and Vices and decide on who the teams are.  Then based on the vacancies we decide who would be the best fit based on who the Pod leaders needing more people want.  If Phil has Fowler, and wants Bradley because they play well together, then that would be a good way to go.  Then Phil plays fourball with Fowler, and Bradley plays foursomes with Fowler, or some other combination.  The Pod Leader needs to understand that he does not have to swing the clubs to play a vital roll.

 

Also, as Cup time approaches, I expect the Pods to practice more and more together, and specific formats.

 

As far as when the Captain's picks are made, I do not care.  The Pod leaders have two years to make this decision, and practicing and playing well together takes precedence over who is hot at the end of the year.

 

OK, if you read all of this then you care too much.

[revkev]

I also appreciate the thread.  When I watch European tour events I see far greater diversity of golf courses and golf course conditions and playing conditions than I see with PGA tour events.  For our events the PGA comes in, grabs the course, makes it over and presto chango the field is playing essentially the same course in Kentucky or Florida or Boston or where ever else and the time of year that the tournament will be played is selected so that the weather conditions are faily uniform also.

 

I think we have built a culture of pretty well spoiled guys who don't handle adverse playing conditions as well as their European counterparts.

 

The good news is that as the Euro's catch up they are likely to insist upon the same thing and so the playing field will probably level off.

 

In regards to captains or other strategies I agree with the idea of a younger captain, one that a majority of the guys would have played competitive golf against and respect.  I would also issue an apology for having passed over Larry Nelson when he should have been selected years ago.  We've been in the tanks since then, perhaps that's why. 

 

Just kidding on that last part although it is shameful that he was passed over for the captaincy when he was.  he fit the normal criterea far better than some who were selected and failed.  It's way too late now.

[westy]

it did make me smile a bit at gleneagles (ok just one more mention i was there) to hear comments from the players and caddies about the wind - both teams! it cant have been more than 15mph at any point.

 

there wasnt a lot of comms going back down the field to the us team, as early as the first on the first day - players coming up short (breeze they couldnt feel) but they didnt seem to get that fedback.

 

wow Rover you really thought this over! I wonder if one of the tour players (in their 40's) is man enough to put their hat in the ring and forgo playing?

 

I hear alot about pods, I know it worked before but is this what team europe do?

 

on the 3rd day when G Mac and Rose fought back from 4 down that must have broken the rest of the team; it was a surprise as well because id watched both those matches earlier and Rose and Gmac looked clueless.....

[BK in TEXAS]

Something has to change.  Isn't insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results???

[RoverRick]

wow Rover you really thought this over! I wonder if one of the tour players (in their 40's) is man enough to put their hat in the ring and forgo playing?

 

I hear alot about pods, I know it worked before but is this what team europe do?

 

 

 

I spent 25 hours the first 3 days of this week driving, so I had plenty of time to ponder this.

 

I don't think the Euros use "Pods" as much.  But they do use certain teammates.  In the past they used people from the same countries, however, this year they used people who currently lived near each other. 

 

It does not really matter what you call it, it is the concept.  The Euros play for partners and team members and captains.  Hit a few bad shots and they understand.  Just hit try to make it up on the next hole.  The Americans play for Country.  Hit a couple of bad shots and the weight of the world is on your shoulders and you are disappointing an entire country.

[furu]

What's the deal with this pod system? Sounds like the perfect way to not have a team.

 

McGinley has amazing insight into the modern Ryder Cup and his players. I talked RC with him for three hours at a dinner just weeks before he was made captain. 

 

I'm not sure there's much coaching going on. One of his major concepts seems to be making players comfortable. When they feel safe, relaxed and without any problems the perform better. Like letting Luke Donald spend time with his family in 2012.

 

He told us that letting Mickelson rest was what decided the 2012 tournament. Maybe the same decision influenced the outcome this year?

 

I wasn't surprised to see McGinley putting his biggest names first in singles. My impression is that he believes in "going for the kill" when you have the chance.

 

I hope the US team never gets relaxed and have fun. Because when they do, they'll win. 

[westy]

Hmmm well I like a bit of balance in a contest, but the other problem now is that some of the senior players are used to losing. Mickleson, woods and furyk must be fairly tarnished by it.

[revkev]

Hmmm well I like a bit of balance in a contest, but the other problem now is that some of the senior players are used to losing. Mickleson, woods and furyk must be fairly tarnished by it.

This most certainly true. However some of the younger players got a nice taste for winning their matches this time around.

 

In the end couldn't it just be that the Euros have the better players for this type of competition?

[westy]

Well yes it may be true, but Im not sure there's much to pick between the teams on paper.

 

Id expect the home team to win in even contests, Medinah was a fluke - it shouldn't happen.

 

An away win should be rare and the high point of a ryder cup career; I think that once the old guard of the U.S. team have moved on (woods, Mickleson, furyk and I'm sorry to say Kuchar, controversial but he's not a winner in my mind) and with the right captain and structure in place I'd expect the event to become highly balanced. Even better for the U.S. some great young players are now playing in Europe and will be sued to our courses - Kepka and Uhlien for instance.

[markb]

Remember the America's Cup way back when it was just US vs. England and England always got trounced?   So they changed it to US vs. the World and the US still won for a while -- until they changed the key rule that everything on the boat had to be made in the country of the competitor.   Basically, this was an unfair rule that guaranteed the US (where most yachting components are still made) would always win.   Once this rule was abolished, all bets were off and the America's cup has been a free for all ever since.   Jack turned our Cup from a similar rout into a free-for-all

 

We can't do much, but we can change the way we select a team, if we want to.  For example:

 

1.  Make it all Captain's picks or have the rankings skewed towards who's hot just before the Cup.   Anyone here argue that Horschel or Kirk weren't smoking hot going into cup time?   Anyone here happy with Jim "Blow the lead" Furyk's long history of Ryder Cup play?   Guess what -- a veteran is no help if he's a veteran at losing.   The Italian Army never stopped anyone.  Now granted, neither Speith or Reed were very hot coming into the cup and they played great, so who knows, we mighta missed out on them.   And Walker had cooled down too, but played pretty well.

 

2.  Play who is hot ALL THE TIME.   Would anyone have benched Poulter at Medinah?   Screw equanimity or resting.   You run your horses till they drop.   Anyone remember Michael Jordan's back-up on the Bulls bench?  Exactly.

 

3.  Keep the same damn Captain as long as he wins, the players like him and he wants the job.   Don't make it a rotating trophy job.  I thought Davis was a good pick, let down by his team.   Dollars to doughnuts we see Azinger next time, maybe Crenshaw if he's still kicking.

 

4.  Favor your match-play pitbulls.   I remember back when Freddy and Davis were simply unbeatable in match play "doubles".   I didn't care how they were ranked, I wanted them out there together, slaying Euro or Austral dragons.   We don't have anybody like that now, but if we find them, we've got to favor them and keep going back to them.  Rickie was supposed to be our best match player, but it turned out that Spieth and Reed seemed to have a fresher memory of their college match play successes.

 

What do all the above have in common?   They are more SUBJECTIVE criteria, less objective.    Maybe this meritocratic points system of rewarding guys for 2 years of steadiness hurts us.  We don't need steady plodders, we need hot killers.

[westy]

Ah well mark, let's be honest would anyone watch the U.S. beat GB for the 20th time on the spin? I doubt anyone in the US would, Brits are gluttons for punishment though!

 

I don't believe this won't turn round, the U.S. have some great players (I'd say more than europe), give them the right captain, course and support and they'll flourish.

 

we kept Bernhard Gallagher and tony jacklin for multiple events - dont think others really wanted the job though! It's a hard job I can't see many people doing it multiple times.

[RookieBlue7]

The USA (as a whole not the golf team) has an entitlement mentality and is selfish as a whole. I'd imagine this extends to Team USA. My point? The golfers don't care. If they don't care and see it more as a vacation (they partied with the Euros after getting beat down by them) there's nothing you can do. Where I come from, you don't party with the competition, especially after they just whipped your tail. You get pissed and vow to get revenge/beat the piss out of them the next time. And if they run their mouth, you fight them (or in baseball, throw the very first pitch the next game at the lead off man's head).

[sp0rtsfan86]

A few things:

 

I get that you want big name stars in the event, but take out some of the older guys who haven't preformed well and not having a great season. To bring up a hockey analogy do you really trust Robert Luongo in a stanley cup final unless he's been playing lights out. Sorry to Furyk but you need to win before you get put on. 

 

Acknowledge the fact the USA is an underdog and tell those guys to shock the world... get young hungry players who want to prove themselves... and have more at stake then just a paycheck. I'd love to see the US go younger and try to win it with guys that are under the radar....

 

As for the captain, go with either a new younger voice that's outside the box or go with Azinger if you feel a more mature voice is needed. After this year's debacle, something needs to be changed.

 

Lastly, make the Ryder Cup guys go out and have beer and dinner together away from everything. Let them talk shop, families...etc. Then let them hit the golf course and rotate shots... Sometimes the best thing I've learned to find a partner is to find someone that you can talk with outside of golf. But that partner also allows you to make mistakes while they make the recovery for you and doesn't at all feel like he/she is pulling all the weight.

[westy]

Blimey must take note never to beat rookie at anything, to misquote badly in camp c3po voice -"let the rookie win"

 

One of the things that I think helped europe start overcoming the U.S. was drinking with them, almost removing the mystery and realising they were human. yes have some grumpy enforcer type players but dont take it to far. im a bit old fashioned i suppose, i believe any animosity is left on the course.

 

yes go younger, dont just pick the next 3 or 4 in the money list. as we know the money list lies, there are players in the top 20 who arent winners - yes they have millions of dollars but have they got the nerve?