Does discounting tee times help/hurt the industry?

[GolfSpy Tim]

This question came up in another thread and I thought we could continue the discussion here without hijacking the other.

Basically - on a recent trip to Nevada I was having a discussion with a course owner who voiced his opinion and concern that discounting tee times was bad for the industry.
 

Had a great discussion with a golf course owner in Nevada about discount golf and his views that it's killing the industry.

I didn't have the heart to tell him that I don't pay full price for rounds and if a place doesn't offer discounts I don't normally play there unless it's a MUST PLAY track (I got into golf after the start of the discount wars, so it's what I expect)

 

So... are you like me and only shop discounts? Do you shop them at all?

Do they help or hurt the industry?

[JBones]

I'm just going to copy/paste my response from the other thread.

 

I think thats BS that it "hurts" the industry.  There are so few people using them that it's not hurting a course and the course doesn't have to offer them.  Here is where it HELPS.......a course here struggled to book tee times in the middle of the day (11:00AM-2:00PM) during the summer, so they started offering discount through GolfNow for $16 (normal $40) during those times.  They sold out those tee times almost every day, where they had maybe 4-6 groups during that time frame before offering the discount.  So while they are offering play at a deep discount, it's better than not having anybody there at all.

[GolfSpy Tim]

I'm just going to copy/paste my response from the other thread.

 

I think thats BS that it "hurts" the industry.  There are so few people using them that it's not hurting a course and the course doesn't have to offer them.  Here is where it HELPS.......a course here struggled to book tee times in the middle of the day (11:00AM-2:00PM) during the summer, so they started offering discount through GolfNow for $16 (normal $40) during those times.  They sold out those tee times almost every day, where they had maybe 4-6 groups during that time frame before offering the discount.  So while they are offering play at a deep discount, it's better than not having anybody there at all.

I'd just be curious if that really "helped" them... let's say 3 months out of the year they filled 6 extra tee times a week, assuming the course took $10 of the $16 ($6 to golfnow?) that's only $720 more for the three months.

 

Not arguing against the discounts - I love them. And it's possible without them I wouldn't have gotten as hooked on the game as I have.

 

But how do they help the course? They'd have to sell a lot of booze to make it make sense?

[markb]

Very good question, to which I do not know the answer.

 

I can say this --  I was FLABBERGASTED when I actually looked at the last minute specials to be had on GolfNow.   I never gave them a thought, then somebody told me I was missing out.

 

I found deals a day or two in advance at very good local courses for $13 per 18 holes WITH CART.   Who the hell honors that kind of a deal?  Less than 80 cents a hole?  What could be their strategy except to allow keepskates like me to pay even less than we would normally.

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

My 2 cents- -- $10 of something is a hell of a lot better than $40 worth of nothing. 

 

What?

 

Lemme try that again -- 4 guys showing up and playing at a discount will spend more money at the course than no one showing up at full price during slow periods.  Of course they need to fill time slots at full price to make money - and the problem with excessive discounting is that it makes the normal price seem overpriced.  But....

 

Better to fill the tee sheet than not -- operating costs are still about the same, and those people very well may buy range balls, some ProV's, tees, drinks, etc.  The people that don't come won't buy any of that.  And if they like the course, they may come back again - maybe not get the same discount, but at list they've played there once and can tell other people about the experience. 

 

My guess is that while it's not a big financial boon to the courses, it's a damn site better than an empty tee sheet.  

[JBones]

My 2 cents- -- $10 of something is a hell of a lot better than $40 worth of nothing. 

 

What?

 

Lemme try that again -- 4 guys showing up and playing at a discount will spend more money at the course than no one showing up at full price during slow periods.  Of course they need to fill time slots at full price to make money - and the problem with excessive discounting is that it makes the normal price seem overpriced.  But....

 

Better to fill the tee sheet than not -- operating costs are still about the same, and those people very well may buy range balls, some ProV's, tees, drinks, etc.  The people that don't come won't buy any of that.  And if they like the course, they may come back again - maybe not get the same discount, but at list they've played there once and can tell other people about the experience. 

 

My guess is that while it's not a big financial boon to the courses, it's a damn site better than an empty tee sheet.  

 

This is exactly why it should work for the course.  When we paid $16 to go up there, we both bought a box of balls in the proshop and my buddy also bought shoes.  We would never have done that after paying $40 to play.

 

I'm not exactly sure how GolfNow works, but I know I pay an additional fee to book the round, so I think the course gets the full $16, but I'm not 100% on that.

[westy]

Yep my take on it is that the actual golf is not where the money is coming into the club - so if you get 20 or 30 extra people into the club on a Saturday and they spend 10 bucks each on food, 10 bucks each on beer then even if they don't spend money in the pro shop you've got 4-600 bucks that will cover the wages of Some of the staff for the day.

 

Golf is pretty much given away at some places.

 

As long as total money taken is the same then who cares if it's greenfees, bar bills, balls or anything else?

[Mr_Theoo]

This is exactly why it should work for the course. When we paid $16 to go up there, we both bought a box of balls in the proshop and my buddy also bought shoes. We would never have done that after paying $40 to play.

 

I'm not exactly sure how GolfNow works, but I know I pay an additional fee to book the round, so I think the course gets the full $16, but I'm not 100% on that.

I think that's how it works. All my rounds are booked on golfnow so I don't have the fee anymore. But with so many courses just in Columbus I'm sure the discounted tee times help instead of hurt them

[MattF]

I only play using discounted fees. The one exception is at Treasure Lake in PA because they don't offer any.

 

I usually look on Thursday's, give my playing partner the options and book the one he chooses, unless it's a course that I think we have to play at least once, then I'll just make the booking and tell him.

 

I believe it's the course that sets the rate that Golfnow et al use, because some of them are maybe $2-5 less than normal rate. If it's that close, I'll just book a time when I want to play, not be dictated by the time the discount is available.

[Maverickping]

I use the discounted fees, why wouldn't I ? Many courses around me go for $100 + and if I can play them for around $50-60 you bet I'm there. Also, it will get more people out there and like others have mentioned, the spin-off business I would imagine will make up for the lower green fees.

As well, if I enjoy myself there I am also more than likely to return and tell my friends who might not care if they get discounts or not.

[fozcycle]

I also use the "Discounted" fees.....especially when Golf Grouper send out emails with $17 specials that are good for 3 months.  It's how we get to play other courses without breaking the bank.

[Tom54]

Here's the point I think the Nevada course owner was trying to make: if a course offers discounts, then it makes it a lot harder to convince people to pay full price to play there. I understand what others in the thread are saying about it's better to have some people paying a lower price to be there than to have no one there. But on the other hand, I have courses in my own area I'll never pay full price for. Why? They're expensive, and they offer discounts.

[silver & black]

I just don't have the means to play courses that cost $50+ a round on weekends. I realize that is not expensive to some of you, but it is just beyond my means to do on a consistent basis. I do pay that a few times a year to play a few nice places with my buddies. Other than that, I pay $330 a year for my membership at my home course. That allows me to play 18 holes on weekends for $12.00 with a cart. I play enough during the year to get my money's worth.... and then some.

[Kenny B]

I copied my post from the other thread, and adding to it.

 

When traveling I got to play some nice courses at reasonable rates, unfortunately many of them were during their off season. Played TPC Scottsdale and Dove Mountain in July; PGA West and La Quinta also in July. But my wife was shocked when I paid $95 each for us at ChampionsGate in Florida about 8 years ago. I think it was a good price, but more than we had ever paid before. That was eclipsed a few years ago in Hawaii at Kapalua Plantation course.

 

I think it helps the course as long as they don't post too many cheap tee times. When I was in AZ last month, I played a couple of courses that I probably wouldn't have played otherwise. I got one of two cheap tee times around noon and felt like I scored. People can look online and get the cheapies and feel good about it. If the course is otherwise busy, then a couple of tee times are like advertising. It would be different if most of the day was cheap, then people would simply wait for the cheap days.

 

At one of our local courses the pro gives us great rates when the course is empty. He says that something is better than nothing! Since I know him pretty well, I can usually get a cart free.

[revkev]

Here's the question, nothing says the guy in Vegas has to offer discounts. Discounts occur because there is a surplus, in this case too many tee times in the area, or to attract business away from competitors as a sort of lost leader.

 

If the Vegas guy's course is priced properly and provides sufficient value he shouldn't worry.

[wbealsd]

If not for discounted fees, I'm sure many of us would simply play our "home course," at least I would.  Without the discounts, I'd have little incentive to pay full anywhere else.  I do have to play within my budget and once I decided to join the club closest to home, I can play a very nice course as much as I want to.  While I like variety as much as anyone, without the discounts I'd play far fewer courses than I do now.

[Maverickping]

I'm surprised at the low cost some of you pay for memberships. I have a friend in Maine that paid $800.00 for the family and he thought he had been robbed.

[revkev]

I'm surprised at the low cost some of you pay for memberships. I have a friend in Maine that paid $800.00 for the family and he thought he had been robbed.

 

 

It depends upon where one lives.  Golf in Florida is much more affordable than golf in Wisconsin.  12 month verses 7 month season.  Maine would be closer to Wisconsin.  I can play a very good course here for under $50 where as up North its going to be $100.

[Maverickping]

I understand that but memberships "here" start at 50K plus the monthly dues. He was upset at paying $800.00 plus the monthly dues for a membership for his whole family.

[revkev]

I understand that but memberships "here" start at 50K plus the monthly dues. He was upset at paying $800.00 plus the monthly dues for a membership for his whole family.

Okay I've got you now. I thought $800 was the annual membership fee not the buy in. Regardless $800 seems very cheap for a club with equity just as 50k seems excessive. We have clubs with that type of buy in but they are far and away the exception. They are generally in the Northeast.

 

We don't need to beat up the private club thing again. If a club wants to charge a buy in and folks decide to do it, go for it. Anymore there are plenty of great public access courses that can be had for a far more reasonable price anyway.

 

If the guy doesn't want to fork over the $800 then go play a daily fee course, right?

[BIG STU]

Down here this being a resort area golf rates go up and down about like a hooker's britches Depends on the season. It used to be for full time residents you could purchase what is called the passport with discounted rates year round but those rates even fluctuated with the season. In fact that program was through the Senior Center and you had to be over 50 to do it. That program has been discontinued now. Now you have a program book you can purchase called Prime Times. It used to be for local full time residents only but has been extended for everyone now. But the rates change during the season also. What most of the full time retirees do that play every day is join a course group. Several of these management groups have gotten together and formed traveling golf leagues.

I am fortunate that I personally have been involved in the golf industry here and know a lot of people in the business so I can usually get good deals and know so many people in general that I get invites some to exclusive private courses.

I do have a what is called an associate membership at the course here by the house. With my membership I have set rates year round but in season I do have some restricted tee times but that is ok.

Actually things for local golf has came around 360* from in the past. In this recent recession courses struggled with low play because tourism was off and realized that there were enough locals retired and active working to support a course and their attitude has changed. Except for prime season you can actually go in the local paper and get local rates any day any public course if you have a local ID