Let's have that discussion

[PlaidJacket]

I've been hanging out here off and on all day. I'm off work and can't play golf due to cold icey weather. Grrrrr. But I've been thinking while reading all sorts of posts here and there. I read over and over complaints about the cost of so called premium golf balls. I call them over-priced. However, I don't get the impression many of us play a so called no name or upstart ball. Even though many of them tout the same or similar construction, materials, and performance as the big name brands. I'll just use the PV1 as my generic example. Too be quite honest I can play my best golf and be at my most competive with say a Master Grip Tour C for $2 as opposed to a $4.00 PV1. I can't tell the difference. Disclaimer: I currently have about 5-6 dozen PV1's in my inventory. I've been gifted or won them. I don't buy balls that expensive.

 

My question is two fold. Why don't more players like us use a less expensive but equally high quality ball like the MG Tour C for example? I can get them for $2.03/ball including tax and shipping for 2 dozen. And no. I'm not a saleman for them. There are other balls out there like this. What about Monsta balls? $34.99. Orlimar Tricast? $19.99. Vice? $19.99, etc., etc. As another example for those wanting a major name brand; The Bridgestone E5 urethane cover. $23-$26/doz. Excellent ball for most if not all players. Same for the Titleist NXT Tour-s with a soft fusablend cover. $32/doz. I'd imagine many of you know of many more so called "No Names".

 

Question two. Who makes all these "other balls" like the MG Tour, Monsta, Vice, etc.? These guys don't have their on factories. I'd guess they are made in China/Asia by a contract manufacturer. Probably the same place Titleist has theirs made. I don't know. I do know of some custom club designers whose heads are made in the exact same factories as a few of the Big Brand guys.

 

I think golf balls sold by the major companies are a rip as far as price goes. Sure they are high quality and we all expect that. But so are some of these others too.

 

So where does that leave us? Do we keep buying the most expensive balls and gripe about it or do we change? Should we change? Can we change? Does the guy with a 18 handicap gain anything buying $4 golf balls? Will it make him better? After all it's what the pros play. Right? Will the 2 handicapper lose his game with a MG Tour at $2 a ball? Hardly.

 

Let's have the discussion...

 

Oh, Happy New Year everyone!

[RoverRick]

Plaid,

 

I have tested many balls over the passed several years. I have found that it does make a difference. If I play with a Titleist Pro V1x, I end up shooting a lower score than with any other ball. As a matter of fact, I have even found other balls that perform better in different areas but overall that is the ball for me. Of course they have changed it over the years and sometimes the new Pro V1 works better than the V1x. All the others change names so much I can't keep track.

 

The Penta TP5 out performed the ProV1x in every individual area but score. I could not explain that for the life of me and it may be mental, which is a valid part of this game. As far a tour quality ball vs economy ball, well, that is they same story as clubs. If you can't afford or simply don't want to drop $400 for a driver, buy a year old for less than half. Does it perform as well as the $400? I bet it comes closer to performing like $400 than the $400 does.

 

I buy recycled balls off the internet. Many times the balls look brand new when I get them, but even after one hole, a new golf ball is not new anymore. If they were given to me and I had a couple of hundred grand on every stroke I would play new ones, but I don't.  

 

I got a deal on a bunch of Lethals and my short game has been horrible since getting them. But I don't know if it is the ball or me.

[fozcycle]

Good discussion Plaid, Rover, I have tried the Master Grip C4 ball and have scored a 173 yard Eagle with it. I have also tried the Kick X Tour @ $40/dozen, the Z-Star and the Bridgestone B330RX.......I still gravitate back to the Maxfli U3/U4.......I get them usually when they are BOGO at Dick's. They give me the distance and reasonable stopping on the green.

For me it is not necessarily the cost or the name that I look for. I just like the Maxflis for their overall performance.

[hckymeyer]

Like Rick said it's about personal preference and yes, balls don't all perform the same.  I've heard great things about the MG balls, but when it comes down to buying I tend to stick to things I know will work.  I'd rather spend $40 a dozen and be completely confident and happy then save $10 and wonder if it's any good.  I also don't buy golf balls at full price.  There is always some deal a few times a year when you can buy 3 dozen and get one free, or you get a coupon to a store or rewards points somewhere.  

 

I vote for play what makes you happy.  If an 18 handicap wants to play Pro V's and lose 5 a round then more power to him.  I'll find 3 of them my next round out and not have to worry about buying golf balls

[Mr_Theoo]

I strongly dislike the Pro V. I tend to do what hckymeyer does and buy them when they're on sale or the used route from places like lostgolfballs.com

[Kenny B]

I like the ProV1 but it's not the only ball I will play. Last year I got a deal on Srixon Z Stars and still have a few. I like it just as well. Based on what you guys have said about the MG ball, I bought some but won't try them out until it gets warmer. I like the price though. If I don't like them, I will probably go back to ProV1 from LostGolfBalls.com. Playing the Bridgestone Precept Lady in yellow as my winter ball and it's great!

[JBones]

That MG C4 Tour is legit. The only reason I don't play them all the time, is because I'm impatient. I can get my favorite ball, the Cally Chrome +, for $10 more and I don't have to wait.

[jbil8802]

I play the Pro V1x but I would never buy them new. I usually scour eBay. I think last time I bought 72 of them for $85 and they were AAAA grade, one step below mint.

[kygolfer1980]

I play whatever I can get at a good price although mentally I usually prefer the titleist nxt or bridgestone b330.  That being said,  other than around the green I can't tell a huge difference in my game with premium brand name because I'm just not consistent enough.

[wbealsd]

I generally buy golf balls from lostgolfballs, as well.  I am going to try the 3UP 2S14 when I'm in Orlando, but those are the first NIB balls I've purchased in awhile.  

 

When practicing or playing casual rounds, I'll often use balls I've found or lower end balls and play higher quality balls for league.  The primary factor for me is how a ball feel when I putt, as I don't notice dramatic differences in distance between them.

[furu]

There are not many factories that make golf balls. I'm sure cheap balls are made the same place as expensive. An example of this is Precept/Bridgestone.

 

What I'm also sure of is that you don't get consistency in cheap balls. Tolerances are not the same as big brands. Compression will vary.

 

I've said before that spin and length from the tee is not a factor. They all perform equally well. Spin separation and all that stuff they try to sell is b********. 

 

But importantly, I'm also sure that playing with a rock isn't fun. You owe it to yourself to play with something that makes golf shots sound and feel positive.

 

These comments are aimed at average/normal golfers. Top golfers and beginners - doesn't matter at all for them. Can't get any better/worse based on a golf ball.

[Fezzler]

I agree with many of the posters that the ball is a personal preference.  I played a few rounds last year switching between a Pro V1x and a Pinnacle.  For me, I find the Pro V1x seems to just play better over the whole course.  Is it worth the $20 - $25 extra? Probably not.

 

I keep gravitating to the middle of the road golf balls with success.  I liked Taylor Made's Project ball and Callaway's HX Hot ball, but when push comes to shove, I play the Pro V1x in my most important rounds.

[Blade]

As far "compression will vary" in cheap balls, not really. When balls were wound under a specified compression that was probably the case. Balls aren't made that way anymore. They have rubber and polymer cores that are poured in a mold. That's why you don't see compression ratings for balls anymore. There's no such thing now.

[furu]

Compression is inconsistent. Ask anyone who makes and sells golf balls? One big brand is actually using this argument against a competitor (also a big brand) regarding 2015 models.

 

And what do you mean there's no such thing as compression? It's actually the only thing you'll hear anyone talking about when it comes to golf balls in 2015. 

 

I stand corrected on Bridgestone. I've been tolk that E and B are manufactured in the USA. Yes, they are. But they were made in Japan when Precept Laddie was a big thing. To be honest - Americans are the only golfers who believe that made in the USA = better products. I would rather buy a Bridgestone ball made in Japan  

 

(And if Bettinardi wants to sell putters in Europe they need to drop the flag and alle the "made in" stuff).

[furu]

Press release on Chrome Soft. "Compression" mentioned six times. Still think it's not relevant? http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2014/12/callaway-going-soft-on-ball-te.html

 

It even mentions numbers on Soft - 65 - and tour models 80/90. 

[revkev]

I'm not even going there with compression - if marketers think you think it is relevant - it is. 

 

On to the balls and nice thread because we haven't had one in a while. 

 

I'm constantly on the search for a ball that will save me money but I will not sacrifice performance for it.  I can't speak for others games but for my own game those so called midlevel balls nxt, nxt tour, Bridgestone E series and the like are the biggest ripoff on the market.  I also think that any testing that I've seen bears this out.  They don't go as far as the 2 piecers like Pinnacles and they most certainly don't spin around the green like the premiums. 

 

For me it makes sense for a guy who doesn't want to spend much to play a cheap ball but by cheap I mean the old school two piecers - you get more distance - all of us want that - and there's no appreciable difference around the green other than feel which is really meaningless on the grand scheme of things - what you feel off the putter face has already happened - hole a few putts and you'll get used to it.

 

Since my game relies a great deal on what happens around the green I'm going with the premium ball - the beauty of shorter and straight is the straight part - I don't lose balls very often so I can play 60 plus rounds a season on 3 dozen balls with little trouble, balls come out of play when they wear out or hit something like a cart path, rake or the like.

 

What I haven't really tried beyond the kickx are the off price brands.  I would try them if they provided sample packs but I'm not wasting my money on a dozen - just not doing it - again I don't lose balls, a dozen balls that I won't use will hang around my garage for years.  If they let me try and I liked I would purchase.

 

So check the numbers out and be honest when you test pinnacle like to mid-level like - save yourself money there if that's where you want to go or stay up because those balls do perform.  At that level there's either the Pro VI type or the Ix type - that's generally a matter of preference.

[Blade]

No I am saying what was termed a "compression rating" in the past was literally how many pounds of compression it was put under as it was wound. There's no such process now. That doesn't mean balls aren't made with softer or harder cores. The terminology is still used because people relate to it. But the way the balls are actually made no longer relates to where the term came from to begin with.

[Kenny B]

I generally buy golf balls from lostgolfballs, as well.  I am going to try the 3UP 2S14 when I'm in Orlando, but those are the first NIB balls I've purchased in awhile.  

 

When practicing or playing casual rounds, I'll often use balls I've found or lower end balls and play higher quality balls for league.  The primary factor for me is how a ball feel when I putt, as I don't notice dramatic differences in distance between them.

Be sure to take some of your higher quality balls or buy them when you get there. I bought a dozen of the 2S14 to play here in the winter. They are very nice for that, but I wouldn't use them in Orlando in 70* weather. After I got them, it got pretty warm here (60's) and I played them along side my Z Star. I posted my experience on another thread but in summary, they was not much difference off the driver, longer off the irons because of rollout and low spin around the green. They did feel a little mushy, but not like the Wilson Duo. They will take some getting used to if you play a higher spin ball. They are perfect right now when temps are below freezing and the ball doesn't spin anyway!

 

Now, let's discuss practicing. I never practice my short game with anything other than my gamer ball. Like Rev, I don't lose many balls and generally take balls out of service when they look a little worn or hit a power pole/wire or tree, street, etc (yes, it's been known to happen ). Those balls go into a bag that I keep in the car and use for chipping and putting. If I get too many for the bag, the better ones stay and the others are donated on the range. I used to practice with range balls, then any balls that I found, but my short game improved when I only practiced with my gamer balls. Nothing like having the same feel as when you play a round.

 

For this reason I would never play less expensive balls for casual rounds and my gamer in tournaments. I will play one of my better practice balls during a casual round on a hole when there is a higher risk of losing it. No sense in pulling out a new ball for that hole!

[markb]

Love a lot of different balls and will play them all with gusto.   Wilson Staff FG Tour, Taylormade TP's, Nike RZN Platinum, Srixon Zstars, the New NXT Tour, and ProV's are all nice.   But here is my favorite "ball brand" of all time because it cost me $25 for ONE TIME subscription and it keeps spitting out balls in unlimited supply every month for years.

 

Regardless of what I'd prefer to hit, I have to plow through the 10 dozen immaculate ProV's that this bad boy dumped in my lap before the ponds froze

[revkev]

Love a lot of different balls and will play them all with gusto.   Wilson Staff FG Tour, Taylormade TP's, Nike RZN Platinum, Srixon Zstars, the New NXT Tour, and ProV's are all nice.   But here is my favorite "ball brand" of all time because it cost me $25 for ONE TIME subscription and it keeps spitting out balls in unlimited supply every month for years.

retreiver.jpg

 

Regardless of what I'd prefer to hit, I have to plow through the 10 dozen immaculate ProV's that this bad boy dumped in my lap before the ponds froze

 

 

Nice packaging on that carton.

[DanUsh]

The difference you notice in balls is when you play a ball consistently.  I play lethals because they were a ball i could stock up on on sale that was a premium ball.  I will occasionally play a found premium ball but I only buy one ball for the season.  It is what i practice with and play with.  The consistency is what has helped me lower my scores.  If you don't know what you want the ball to do whether spin or release then you may not notice the difference.  I wont pay top dollar for a dozen balls unless I am desperate.  Which hasn't happened in years.  I am actually looking into buying the big box of lethals from Taylormade.  I don't need sleeves or boxes that place balls in to dozens.  Just the same ball i can put in my bag regularly.  I would try other brands if you could find samples like Hopkins or some of the others.  But like others have said above I am not gonna spend money on the unknown.  I would rather pay top dollar and know what i am getting them save 10 and have a crapshoot that I hate.  

 

Golf is a very personal game it is visible through all facets of the game.  No swing is the same so we all have different club make ups and set ups for our bags.  And golf balls are personal too.  Every person wants the ball that will go into the hole in as few shots as possible and they like the ball that they feel gives them the confidence to do this whether decided from data, marketing, or wishful thinking.  

[wbealsd]

I stand corrected on Bridgestone. I've been tolk that E and B are manufactured in the USA. Yes, they are. But they were made in Japan when Precept Laddie was a big thing. To be honest - Americans are the only golfers who believe that made in the USA = better products. I would rather buy a Bridgestone ball made in Japan

When did Bridgestone start manufacturing the E series in the US?  I started using it a few years ago and switched from the Precept Laddie, but the batch of Yellows I bought last year don't seem to perform as well.  It seems like they have more sidespin, feel "light" off the putter and split easier than they used to.

 

I'm actually searching for another "gamer," as I plan on using up the last of the E6's that I have early in the Spring.

[westy]

I fiddled round for years switching between manufacturers and going from tour balls, to 3 piece balls and at times whateve Id found in the rough.

 

About two years ago I decided to switch to pro v1x as my main ball and stick to it; then from October to March I'll play Titleist velocity.

 

This works well for me, in the warmer weather the pro v1x is longer than most other balls I've tried and soft enough to stick on most greens. Like Rev I don't get through many balls so don't mind spending a little extra on balls (although truthfully my meagre winnings usually cover all my balls each year).

 

In the winter the velocity does me fine, When temps dip I've found the pro v1x really stops working for me and I need every extra yard off the tee!

 

Playing the same ball, I reckon, week in week out helps in knowing your yardages, knowing how a chip will roll or stop and of course in putting consistency.

 

Would be nice if pro v's were a bit cheaper.....

[fozcycle]

Press release on Chrome Soft. "Compression" mentioned six times. Still think it's not relevant? http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2014/12/callaway-going-soft-on-ball-te.html

 

It even mentions numbers on Soft - 65 - and tour models 80/90.

 

So Callaway's Chrome Soft is the new secret to be released on 1/16/15?

[jaxbeachpackerfan]

So, I'm a high handicapper.  But after many years of roughly the same performance, it's clear that the handicap results from inconsistency and less than stellar putting.  I can hit all the shots, but never can predict when.  It comes from years of a bad back, which limits practicing to virtually none and choosing playing rather than practice or lessons. 

 

Reason for this preamble, is I can spin a ball so that it backs up from eight iron down when I hit it well (trying to justify expressing an opinion here on this topic).  I play on Dye's Valley at TPC Sawgrass, which is a tour quality course (they play the Web.com Tour Championship there every year).  We have two short par threes with very small greens.  After the renovation this year, they are very fast and very hard (as new greens tend to be).  When I hit a good shot on these holes with a ProV, it will hold with just a couple of yards of roll (no spinning back after the renovation).   My other ball that I play because of the cost factor is a Wilson Duo, but I sometimes dabble with the Lethal.  In each case with the latter, they roll 10 to 15 yards on these greens, sometimes off even though the ball mark is well before the cup.  I play this course twice a week, so lots of "data".  I go with the Duo most of the time 'cause my game (consistency) is in a funk and I get sick of losing $4 brand new balls, but I do believe there is a significant difference.  

[markb]

Bridgestone's Georgia factory has been in operation for decades, but it was greatly expanded in 2014 and all the urethane B series is made there now.  Not many other balls are made in the US though.  Many Titleists, a few Callaways and Taylormades, that's about it.

 

Although I'm not ball loyal, I do agree with DanUsh about the need to play one ball consistently to improve your scores because of the predictability of that ball.   And it takes some time to really get a feel for what a ball will do.   I played the Wilson FG Tour for most of 2014.   I loved it and I still do.   But it was a tad shorter and tad more spinny than the ProV for me of the woods.   As a result I had shorter drives.  No problem, because it was longer off the irons with more spin.   So my second shorts were better.  However, when I faced par threes I did have to use a different number for the FG vs the ProV and the FG number was 2-5 longer.   I couldn't just flip back and forth arbitrarily as if they were identical.   I only stopped playing them when I ran out.

[TheCommonHacker]

This has been a great thread. I am a high handicap and I have long thought that the ball, along with many other things, is completely mental. Couple years ago I would would have said that my best rounds were played with Callys. But then I started getting alittle better at the game, and I started to "feel" the difference between a low end balls and the mid and higher end balls. Now i can't hit a rock anymore. However, I haven't quite been able to feel the difference between the higher and lower ends yet.

 

Lately I have been debating that issue that golf balls at a certin level is that all mental. I can play a TopFight Gamer all day and start feeling like i can go low and pull out a ProV and three swings later, it's gone. It doesn't matter lake, field, random leaf. Thats the story of my golf game. All mental.

 

Now I find my self on BOGO binges and buy whatever I can under $25 dollars. But what I end up doing every round is playing balls that I find because I don't wanna loose the ones that I paid for. Vicious cycle, and expensive.

 

Im always looking for good deal, and this site has always been great for good info and preferences on all balls. So keep it coming.

[furu]

So Callaway's Chrome Soft is the new secret to be released on 1/16/15?

 

Not sure. I missed Callaways press trip to Marbella (Spain). And I didn't want to sign a three page contract to get info and pictures

 

Chrome Soft is the ball Phil is talking about in the new videos. 

[SeeRed]

Interesting to read all of the opinions, observed data, etc., on this topic. I have no data, but I do have my opinion (or OEM marketing has taken firm hold in my brain, you be the judge) and believe the "premium" balls perform and feel better for me. My dilemma is that I refuse to pay their premium prices. I would have no issue buying used balls (I don't tend to find that many on courses where I play), except that they want to charge almost $20 for shipping- and that's for one dozen balls. So, like many of you I wait until I can find great golf balls for around $20/dozen- or BOGO, or something similar, but $20/dozen is my benchmark. Lately that has been the Wilson FG Tour X and Lethals, both very good balls IMO. I do have 3-4 dozen Pro V1x's that were given to me as gifts over the past few years, but I rarely play them. I guess if it came down to it and I was no longer able to find a premium ball for $20/dozen, I would start the search for a 2-piece, less expensive ball and find one that worked for me...at no more than $20/dozen. I don't lose too many balls over the course of the year, but I see no reason to pay more for them than I absolutely have to. And like with other golf equipment, the fact that OEM's are constantly coming out with newer, "better" balls each year means there is no shortage of deals on previous year's balls.

[Kenny B]

Interesting to read all of the opinions, observed data, etc., on this topic. I have no data, but I do have my opinion (or OEM marketing has taken firm hold in my brain, you be the judge) and believe the "premium" balls perform and feel better for me. My dilemma is that I refuse to pay their premium prices. I would have no issue buying used balls (I don't tend to find that many on courses where I play), except that they want to charge almost $20 for shipping- and that's for one dozen balls. So, like many of you I wait until I can find great golf balls for around $20/dozen- or BOGO, or something similar, but $20/dozen is my benchmark. Lately that has been the Wilson FG Tour X and Lethals, both very good balls IMO. I do have 3-4 dozen Pro V1x's that were given to me as gifts over the past few years, but I rarely play them. I guess if it came down to it and I was no longer able to find a premium ball for $20/dozen, I would start the search for a 2-piece, less expensive ball and find one that worked for me...at no more than $20/dozen. I don't lose too many balls over the course of the year, but I see no reason to pay more for them than I absolutely have to. And like with other golf equipment, the fact that OEM's are constantly coming out with newer, "better" balls each year means there is no shortage of deals on previous year's balls.

 

OK, I have to ask... What are you doing with 3-4 dozen ProV1x's that you rarely play?  You don't lose that many balls and you buy good balls for $20/dozen.  As you say, OEM's keep improving their balls so in 3-5 years you will have new ProV1's that aren't up to the current model.  

 

I like ProV1's and I get them for gifts too, but I will play them when I travel to nice courses.  I have been playing the Srixon Zstars and I like them, but this next year I think I will be changing just to do something different.  I recently bought the MG C4 ball for $20/dozen because people on this forum said it's nice. I'll give it a try this spring, but if it doesn't suit me, I'll probably go back to ProV1's from LostGolfBalls.  I don't find many like markb and the slightly used ones work fine.

 

Although I don't like to pay full price for balls, a dozen golf balls here or there is insignificant when I add up all the money I spend each year on equipment, travel and green fees.