Spin in driver heads

[hckymeyer]

We've all heard lower lofted heads spin less than higher lofted heads.

 

I have a simple question.

 

Does a 9 degree head set to 10 spin the same as a 10.5 degree head set to 10?  Or should it still spin less?

 

Please disregard face angle in this scenario.

 

 

[jbil8802]

Can you disregard face angle? I thought if you "loft up" it closes the face and if you "loft down" it opens the face? I have no answers just additional questions lol

[RoverRick]

Once upon a time, I came across some Nike Covert information on the internet where they say that increasing the loft angle by 1* will increase the spin by 300 rpms..  However, I remember it was 300 rpms,  but not too sure about the *.  It could have been 1/2*, I just am not sure.

[furu]

The first step here is believing that it's possible to actually change loft

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

I remember it happening yesterday -- dropped loft from 9.5 to 8.5 and saw spin drop by at least 300 RPM.  I think you saw it, too 

[jbil8802]

The first step here is believing that it's possible to actually change loft

This is why new guys like me get so confused. I was under the impression that changing loft through adjustable hosels works as long as you don't square the clubface by soling it on the ground. Then there's the issue that the stamped loft on a driver head could actually be 1* higher or lower unless you have it digitally lofted.

[Mr_Theoo]

I would expect them to be able to spin around the same

[hckymeyer]

All of those things may be true, but all skirt the question. All things equal is it the head loft or the loft that is set by adjustability that effects spin.

 

Two heads, one 9 degree and one 10.5 degree but both set to 10. Do they spin the same or does the 9 degree head still spin less.

[hckymeyer]

I remember it happening yesterday -- dropped loft from 9.5 to 8.5 and saw spin drop by at least 300 RPM.  I think you saw it, too 

Yeah, I've started bidding on 9° SLDR 430 heads

[JBones]

Yeah, I've started bidding on 9° SLDR 430 heads

I hit a 9° 430,was hitting 270yd turds with it.....only a 230 carry. The ball didn't look like it was more than 15' off the ground.

[hckymeyer]

I hit a 9° 430,was hitting 270yd turds with it.....only a 230 carry.

I actually picked up a few yards according to the simulator.  Either way it's a relatively cheap experiment since I already have the shafts I need.  The question is if I can keep the launch above 14° while bringing the spin down.

[JBones]

I actually picked up a few yards according to the simulator. Either way it's a relatively cheap experiment since I already have the shafts I need. The question is if I can keep the launch above 14° while bringing the spin down.

What shafts? The one I hit had a low launch/low spin shaft, which is what I play, but a different brand.

[hckymeyer]

What shafts? The one I hit had a low launch/low spin shaft, which is what I play, but a different brand.

I hit the Paderson in it, want to try my Diamana in it too.  My launch only came down a degree, but spin came down 300rpm.  I'm hoping I can stay around the 14° launch and get spin down under 3k.  I'm not talking a lot of distance gain, but 5yds might be the difference between going for it and laying up.

[Blade]

Spin loft (the difference between the dynamic loft at impact and the attack angle/vertical path) controls how much spin is generated. Cranking the loft up on an adjustable driver will in fact add loft and the resulting spin loft will be higher also adding spin to the ball.

[hckymeyer]

Spin loft (the difference between the dynamic loft at impact and the attack angle/vertical path) controls how much spin is generated. Cranking the loft up on an adjustable driver will in fact add loft and the resulting spin loft will be higher also adding spin to the ball.

Thanks Blade, I kind of thought this was the case.

 

I'll give the quick back story now.  Got fitted at the Kingdom as part of the MGS loft up event.  I haven't changed a thing (except the grip) on my driver since last Jan and I've loved playing it all last year (10.5° head set to 11°).  Barbajo and I went to 2nd Swing to test out the Paderson shafts.  After a while one of the guys working came over and watched for a bit.  He mentioned that my launch angle was high enough that going to a lower lofted head could bring my spin down a bit and pick up some more distance.  Basically I spin the ball too much to ever come close to 17/1700 with my current swing, but I could bring my spin down some more and get to around 14° launch and 3k spin or lower I would pick up distance.  So I'm going to pick up a 9° and see if I can set it to 9.5 or 10 and maintain that launch while lowering the spin a bit.  I don't want to just lower my current head because I benefit from a more closed face angle.

 

Mostly the season is so close I can taste it and my inner club ho is coming out since I didn't buy any clubs this winter.

[markb]

My opinion is that whatever works, works.

 

I personally didn't see changing the hosel loft do anything for the two heads I just tested with the Paderson. 

 

The Optiforce 460 which comes in 10.5 and I dialed down to 9.5, spun about 1000 rpm MORE than the Optiforce 440 which comes in 9.5 and I need to dial up to 10.5 for optimum launch.

[hckymeyer]

My opinion is that whatever works, works.

 

I personally didn't see changing the hosel loft do anything for the two heads I just tested with the Paderson. 

 

The Optiforce 460 which comes in 10.5 and I dialed down to 9.5, spun about 1000 rpm MORE than the Optiforce 440 which comes in 9.5 and I need to dial up to 10.5 for optimum launch.

Mine too, but as usual want to see if a tweak can work better

 

I would expect the 460 to spin more than the 440.  Similar to the 460 vs 430 in the SLDR.

[mr_divots]

All of those things may be true, but all skirt the question. All things equal is it the head loft or the loft that is set by adjustability that effects spin.

 

Two heads, one 9 degree and one 10.5 degree but both set to 10. Do they spin the same or does the 9 degree head still spin less.

I saw an explanation by Wishon that face angle, lie angle, and loft are all interconnected. Basically, it's getting those parameters set where you, the golfer, then deliver the head into impact at a consistent dynamic loft.

 

One loft heads and lofted heads with indendent loft and lie settings will accomplish this differently.

 

Wishon starts back at persimmon heads to explain how they'd take a known lofted head and then drill the bore at different angles for different players to set the desired lie angle and face angle like a clocking ferrule.

 

Great video to watch.

 

 

I got interested in this subject watching senior players struggle with shot height when the R1 driver came out. It's a single loft head. I am not a fan of the single loft heads.

[Tony Covey MGS]

 

I got interested in this subject watching senior players struggle with shot height when the R1 driver came out. It's a single loft head. I am not a fan of the single loft heads.

 

Adjustability gone too far. When you get to the 11.5°-12° range the closed face starts to give people fits. As you suggest...damn hard to get the ball in the air when you're hooding it left.

[revkev]

Going back to Furu's comment I thought the issue was with the Open/Closed part of adjustability on the bottom of TMag drivers - it does not make a difference where that's set.  Raising or lowering the loft will work but it will also open or close the club face. 

 

Is that assumption correct?

 

Very interesting discussion.

[Tony Covey MGS]

Going back to Furu's comment I thought the issue was with the Open/Closed part of adjustability on the bottom of TMag drivers - it does not make a difference where that's set.  Raising or lowering the loft will work but it will also open or close the club face. 

 

Is that assumption correct?

 

Very interesting discussion.

 

Adding loft closes the face (or closing the face adds loft, if you prefer).

Decreasing loft opens the face (or opening the face decreases loft).

 

TMaG's adjustable sole plate was minimally useful. Works for some guys who sole the club at address. If you don't sole the club, it does nothing.

 

Adjustable/movable weights change CG location and invariably that alters launch conditions as well. The impact of that boils down to 3 factors:

 

How much mass is actually being moved? - More mass = greater impact

Over what distance is it being moved? - More distance = greater impact

How/Where is the mass being moved (left/right, front/back, top/bottom)

[revkev]

Thanks T - that's exactly how I understand it.

[silver & black]

I don't sole the club. Am I to understand that whatever loft I dial in works because of that? All of a sudden adjustable drivers don't sound very adjustable...lol.

[revkev]

Silver and Black its not the loft adjustment - its the open/closed adjustment that TMag used to have on some of its drivers.  The loft changes work.

[Blade]

The sole plate was an attempt to let you square the face with different loft settings. The trouble is, like Kev said, it only works if you sole it. But beyond that, how well could that possibly work when soleing it on turf. I say none. If you soled it carefully on a flat hard surface, ok. On grass? Yea right.

[mr_divots]

I find based on the CG of the heads, regardless of how they sit on the ground, they may open or close when hovered off the ground compared to the address position on the ground. The Cobra "smart sole" comes to mind.

I find I usually play best with drivers that don't want to open or close too much from their address position when hovered. And by Wishon's explanation, this is what we're after with adjustable hosels. Maintaining that loft through the impact area with the correct hosel settings.

[markb]

I am in complete agreement with Blade on the ol' TMag doo-dad soleplate.   Absolutely worthless garbage in real life on turf tees.  

 

What it was was a "shim" which would jack up the club to the right position to open or close the face.   Since most human duffers can't see this face adjustment, the TMag shim helped get them into the position that would produce the desired affect.   But even if the users practiced on a flat surface utilizing the shim, they'd still have to remember how that setting looked in their hands in practice and replicate in on the course because the shim DIDN'T WORK ON LUMPY GRASS AND IT SURE AS HELL DIDN'T WORK FLOATING IN THE AIR!

[RookieBlue7]

It depends, which head gets the clubface to square properly at impact?  The one that's open or the one that's closed?