Time to switch my iron shafts...

[dhayse32]

Somewhat revamped my swing and it has slowed down some...but with these TI X100s I am seeing a big difference in yardage even though I am striking the ball better...roughly hitting a club less distance!  I need to go down to a little lighter shaft but I don't want a high ball launch shaft!  Any suggestions? 

[apprenti23]

Definitely sounds like they're too stiff. May not be able to load those x100s. What about dg tour issue s400?

[dhayse32]

Definitely sounds like they're too stiff. May not be able to load those x100s. What about dg tour issue s400?

 

I assumed the S400s would be even harder to load, but after looking at some specs it seems that might not be the case.  My driver SS is about 107...not sure on my irons. 

[jdiddyesquire]

Somewhat revamped my swing and it has slowed down some...but with these TI X100s I am seeing a big difference in yardage even though I am striking the ball better...roughly hitting a club less distance!  I need to go down to a little lighter shaft but I don't want a high ball launch shaft!  Any suggestions? 

#InTheMarketForX100s

[PlaidJacket]

Go find a competent fitter. I'm not too sure you can guess your way into new shafts. There's more to it than just playing a shaft that "works" for someone else. Perhaps easier with steel shafts. With your high handicap for one your release is probably very early. I'm no expert on shafts by any means nor do I want to be. However, I play AeroTech steel/fiber shafts in my irons that were custom fit for my swing particulars. The next guy with similar playing skills, age, etc. will probably require a little different shaft than me. For me personally I'd never just "stick a new shaft" in my clubs because I think it will work best or someone said they like such and such.

[fozcycle]

I switched from Dynalite 85s steel shafts to Project X 5.0 graphite shafts.......not only did I pick up some yardage, but am able to hit the greens......my Driver SS is 97

[Undershooter]

Assuming you want more distance but still like the feel of the x100s then try these.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/141703927010?nav=SEARCH

 

A fitter is always recommended tho

[RookieBlue7]

Go see a competent fitter. Release, transition, speed, aoa, all come into play here and none of us know yours

[jaskanski]

Definitely sounds like they're too stiff. May not be able to load those x100s. What about dg tour issue s400?

 

This is why you should get fitted rather than listening to internet advice. S400's actually work out heavier than X100 and have a stiffer tip profile too. So this piece of wisdom could actually perform the polar opposite of the OP's request. 

[Undershooter]

This is why you should get fitted rather than listening to internet advice. S400's actually work out heavier than X100 and have a stiffer tip profile too. So this piece of wisdom could actually perform the polar opposite of the OP's request. 

Not to hijack but its my understanding that the s400 is a little stiffer in the tip due to trimming but the overall profile is softer than the x100. So wouldn't that still allow the x100 to launch and spin lower than the s400? Or does the tip stiffness play that much into it?

 

edit: To be clear I wasn't recommending s400. Just curious about the shafts

[apprenti23]

This is why you should get fitted rather than listening to internet advice. S400's actually work out heavier than X100 and have a stiffer tip profile too. So this piece of wisdom could actually perform the polar opposite of the OP's request.

 

You're going to tell me that a "stiff shaft" is stiffer and heavier than an "x-stiff" shaft from the exact same brand and exact same model?!?!? This guy above is right, never listen to internet advice!

[mizuno_lover]

All I'll add to this is I reshafted my Mizunos and it was the best thing I ever did.  The shaft I had in them was too stiff and it cost me distance - in fact probably a clubs worth.  It had got so bad I was ready to sell the irons and I was so desperate it wasn't funny.  I was lucky in that my club pro had a bunch of demo shafts and pulled out seven or eight different flex's and gave me a big bucket of balls and said go hit balls till you find one you like.  I wound up going with the XP 95's and I'm back to a club longer and I can work the ball both ways (not always when I want to though).  I will echo too the get fitted if you can't do what I did with the hitting different shafts in a demo iron

[RookieBlue7]

You're going to tell me that a "stiff shaft" is stiffer and heavier than an "x-stiff" shaft from the exact same brand and exact same model?!?!? This guy above is right, never listen to internet advice!

The tip section does play much stiffer than X100's.  The overall bend profile, the X100's are stiffer though.

[dhayse32]

Thanks for the advice everyone.  Yes, the BEST answer is to get fitted, but I'll be honest, probably not going to happen this season.  Since I have access to pull/weight/insert shafts, it really isn't too tough to just swap them out.  I really value all of your opinions and while our swings might be different, it is still helpful to hear feedback on what is working for people with similar specs as myself (swing speed, desired flight, etc...).

[apprenti23]

The tip section does play much stiffer than X100's.  The overall bend profile, the X100's are stiffer though.

I asked True Temper - their response "X100s are stiffer than S400" done and done

[RookieBlue7]

I asked True Temper - their response "X100s are stiffer than S400" done and done

That's the overall bend profile, which is the measure of flexural stiffness the length of the shaft. The tip section, when measured, of the s400 is stiffer than the x100 tip section. The shaft loads differently and there are several factors that come into play when selecting the appropriate shaft. The S400 is between the s300 and x100 in terms of flexural stiffness. That's why I prefer the s400 TI hard stepped once as opposed to the x100 personally, because of my aggressive transition and the way that shaft loads and unloads. The overall FCM is 6.1 vs 6.8 of the 2 shafts, less than a full flex difference. The s400 is also 2 grams heavier due to the tip ID (wall thickness) which is why the tip plays stiffer.

 

I'd be happy to get True Temper's director of sales to explain it in technical terminology if you'd like. He's the one that put me in the S400 hard stepped over x100 because of the way I transition from the top. I have his personal number and personal email address from being one of their shaft testers.

[apprenti23]

Nope, but you further confirmed that s400 is NOT more stiff than x100. DGS400 was the stock wedge flex for most oems for numerous years (and might still be). I find it very hard to believe that they'd be putting shafts stiffer than x100 for the masses to play in their clubs they swing the softest at.

[RookieBlue7]

Nope, but you further confirmed that s400 is NOT more stiff than x100. DGS400 was the stock wedge flex for most oems for numerous years (and might still be). I find it very hard to believe that they'd be putting shafts stiffer than x100 for the masses to play in their clubs they swing the softest at.

I didn't say they were overall stiffer, I said the tip is stiffer. Which it is. That changes how the shaft loads, and changes which shaft a person would or should use. Swing speed isn't the only determinant in picking the correct shaft. There's plenty of guys you watch on TV that have x flex speed that play less than x flex. It's due to how the shaft loads and performs. Someone with x flex speed that has an aggressive transition benefits from a stiffer tipped shaft. That's why the lighter "flex" shaft (overall flex) that has a stiffer tip can benefit them. Which is why I said go see a fitter. Because we don't know his transition, load characteristics, release point, etc

 

Are you familiar with the Mizzy optimizer? It, alone, has 7 release profiles. There are tons of variables and without seeing the swing and crunching numbers, it's hard to blindly recommend shafts for anyone and it's irresponsible.

 

If one has an early release but hovers between s and x, x flex soft stepped could be a better solution than s flex with a stiffer tip straight in. Similarly, if one has a late release, one might benefit more from a more tip stiff s flex shaft and hard step it once or twice. Late release with an aggressive transition, you might want the s400 with the stiffer tip hardstepped. There's a science to it. Personal feel could also play a factor.

 

Heck, what's to say the profile of a KBS Tour that has a softer tip and stiffer butt section wouldn't work better? There are many options and I'd at worst go get on the mizuno optimizer and at least narrow the choices some. Nothing supplants an experienced fitter that knows his craft seeing the swing and ball flight in person though

[apprenti23]

I actually owned a Mizuno shaft "demoralizer" so I know exactly what you're talking about. That thing recommended shafts I wouldn't dream of putting people into and to be perfectly honest with you, never had one complaint.

 

If someone asks for a recommendation, I'm not going to just say "go get fit." They already know that and in all honesty if you have an opinion on something you think may work for them yet don't offer it when they ask, I'd say that is irresponsible as well.

 

Going to get fit for clubs is like going to the doctor or dentist. Everyone knows that's where they should go; however, they prefer to go to webmd. Preconceived notions and certain fears of going to the dr/dds is not very different than lessons/certified fitters.

[RookieBlue7]

Without seeing a swing or ball flight, I still find it irresponsible making any recommendation. I've given people a list of shafts to try before, but with the caveat that to get the correct result they should go get fitted.

 

Im not going to make a recommendation based on an approximated swing speed and no other data. Now if we had a specific swing speed and ball flight characteristics including launch angle and spin, it'd be different. You could make an educated guess at it and at the least narrow it down to one or two without seeing the swing.

[jaskanski]

Wow - nothing like a bit of shaft discussion to stimulate a heated debate.

As RookieBlue7 correctly pointed out, the S400 is heavier than the X100 and has a much stiffer tip section as I pointed out. I never said it was a stiffer overall shaft (which obviously it isn't) but with that being said (and as RookieBlue7 also quite correctly pointed out) a fitting session is a must if this type of shaft is to be recommended. 

Without going into too much technical detail a stiffer tip section regardless of overall flex profile only suits a certain type of swinger, typically someone who loads hard and has a very late release. If this isn't the OP's swing MO, then depending on other factors which as stated we don't know (because as RookieBlue7 pointed out yet again) we haven't seen a swing - the S400 could be a worse fit than the X100. 

That is why (and I know it sounds boring) the only way to be really sure is to get yourself fitted. It is rather baffling as to why a nation with more fitters per person than any other place on earth is rather reluctant to do this and similarly why they tend to believe so much BS when it comes to golf equipment, but then - golf is a game of opposites in many ways.

[revkev]

Interesting discussion.

[fozcycle]

I like it.......helps me learn more about shafts....Thanks Guys.

[BIG STU]

Actually good advice given by all. I will add one other thing. How a shaft reacts may vary with different club heads brands and designs not only due to varying weights but also due to hosel designs with length and depth. Also offset of the hosel at moment of impact has a lot to do with it. Those are some more reasons I would take the advice of others on here in the part of finding a good clubfitter. In the long run it will save you a lot of time, money and frustration. Good luck let us know how it goes after all this is MGS and inquiring minds want to know

[dhayse32]

Thanks everyone for the help.  Appreciate a good discussion.