Private club/Muni differences

[revkev]

We've recently had a couple of threads on joining private clubs.  I finally had time on Tuesday to play in my league, the first time this season.  That league plays at the St. Petersburg Florida Muni, Mangrove Bay.  It is one of the busiest courses in the country (world no doubt) in terms of annual tee times.  While there I reflected on the differences between a place like Mangrove and the Bayou Club.

 

I should preface this by writing that I started playing golf 48 years ago, when I was 10.  I caddied at a very exclusive club in my early teens (until baseball took over my summers for a while.)  I really learned the game there.  I played muni's almost exclusively until becoming a pastor and joining a club in Indiana.  I loved that club because of the people, its been 15 years and I still miss those people.  The entire men's club came to my church for my last Sunday there - great folks. So Aspetuk in Weston CT, LaGrange Country Club in Indiana and Bayou Club in Seminole are my "insider" club experiences although I've had lots of play at private places.  Fairchild Wheeler in Bridgeport CT, Newman municipal in Ithaca NY, Town and Country in Sheboygan WI and Mangrove Bay in St Petersburg FL are my Muni's.

 

First Impressions

There is a noticeable difference in pulling into the parking lot between a Muni and Private club.  At the Club you are always going to be greeted, if your clubs are in the locker room and you've called ahead your cart will be ready, back loaded on and someone from the staff will drive out to pick you up or if they are with you and you drop them off everything will be set when its time for you to head to the range or tee.  Invariably the Club's parking lot will not be as crowded or hectic because there simply aren't as many players.  You're not going to have to dodge carts or that group of guys who is hanging around the tailgate finishing off their last beer and cigar (I'm one of those guys in the muni lot so long as its shady.)  I'm not big on this but at some clubs the difference in car quality is noticeable at least status quality wise.  Bayou is not like that, I'm very thankful for that one.

 

Locker rooms are remarkably different.  The lockers in muni's may be somewhat well keep but they are rarely used, there is never enough shower space but that doesn't matter because most people don't use them.  The showers at Bayou are nicer than at my house and I didn't even care when my hot water heater went out last week because it gave me an excuse to use the club showers for a couple of days. 

 

Since I play a lot of golf and am generally speaking a friendly person I get to know people in the pro shop and club house rather quickly.  Whether at the club or the muni employees know who I am, call me by name (usually Rev.) and treat me well.  Of course I've already done the same thing for some time so its mutual.  I love and respect people period.  The folks at Mangrove were happy to see me on Tuesday, not just my league mates but the employees as well and I was delighted to see them.  I suspect that the norm is the folks at a club know all of their members and at muni's not so much.

 

My pro at the Club already knows my game and my swing better than the pro at the muni.  The muni guy is nice enough but he sees more people in a month than my guy does in a year.  My guy is responsible for his membership.  The muni guy never knows what's coming next.  This is a big plus for a Private Club.  If you're serious about the game it's great to have someone around who is experienced at teaching and knows you, what you are capable of and what you want out of golf.

 

Practice facilities are always radically different.  Muni's have to struggle with the fact that they have tons and tons of people coming through.  Even if many of those people take care of the course as they should there are always going to be tons that don't.  It's an impossible task and this goes from range through the course.  I'd say the biggest difference between the two would be the number of people using the facility and all the implications there in.  At Bayou I have the choice of two ranges going in opposite directions, three practice greens, including several practice bunkers, rough that can be used to work around a green or back towards the range for full shots, side hill lies, you name it, whatever you might face on the course, it can be replicated in the practice area.  At Mangrove I can sometimes find enough grass to hit a small bucket.  A couple of the other munis that I played at had no range at all.

 

Courses

The first thing that I look for in a golf course is whether it will travel.  Here's what I mean.  If I play the majority of my rounds at this course will I be able to handle the conditions and challenges at other courses that I might play.  When I was younger it was almost impossible to transition from the Muni to a Club.  The course conditions were radically different, fairway heights, rough heights, green speed, traps, tees, you name it.  That has changed over the past 20 years of so. 

 

Fairchild Wheeler would travel if it were in good shape (it may be now for all I know I haven't played there in 15 years.)  Julius Boros grew up playing there.  It's a tough track built in the 20's.  Honestly its a Bethpage complex junior and both courses are hidden gems.  Neither Newman nor Town and Country could travel, no traps or very few and you could putt out of those and the greens were terrible.  Actually LaGrange did not travel all that well.  It played very short, the greens were generally flat and while it had traps there weren't many and they kept the fairways a bit shaggy.  I loved the course but it was tough going to a longer track that was in better condition. 

 

Mangrove is a harder animal to peg.  It truly is a model Muni.  There's a reason why it gets so much play.  I have no clue how they are able to keep it in such good shape and yet it does show signs of wear.  There are lots of bad spots on the greens that are shaded and the traps are abysmal.  Travel though?  It's old school Bermuda on the greens, that's where the course defends itself but very few courses have that type of grass anymore.  I noticed it right away Tuesday, I had to watch carefully for grain and for the most part the greens were far slower than what I'm accustomed too.  Also its wide open off the tee, that's good for pace of play on a public course but not for a player who wants to go play tougher courses.  I played like crap, putted worse and still shot 79 without loosing a ball.  I would have had trouble breaking 85 at Bayou the way I played.

 

Bayou is an incredible course that is in great shape always.  I can hardly wait for the new greens to come in and they've also done work on the drainage as well as the tees.  Like many clubs they do a lot of watering so you loose a little distance off the tee.  Clearly the course plays longer than its yardage indicates.  They've got that down though and the Men's Association plays from an ideal blend for me and I'm sure most better players.  They have another blended set of tees that works for the higher handicapper and the tips work even for our touring pro members (like any good Florida course we have a handful.)  If you can score at Bayou you can score anywhere. 

 

People

People are people.  What I like about Munis is that there are always people there, you can meet new folks and after a while there is always some sort of game that you can be a part of.  If you'd like you could meet someone new every time out.  We had a threesome on Tuesday and they sent a single out with us who was a great guy.  I have his number, he has mine and he's going to join us next week.  I will also bring him to Bayou once the greens open.  I love that about Munis, you could meet the Mayor, you could meet a guy living hand to mouth, doesn't matter the same great time either way.

 

At the club you aren't going to meet many new people once you've met the membership.  We have around 400 members at Bayou and I've certainly met enough nice ones and have found a regular group to play with at the right time for my schedule.  There's always a group at any course, if you are patient enough to find it.

 

Other Stuff

Pace of play is a huge deal for me.  I'm the same distance from Mangrove as Bayou.  If I want to warm up for my time at Mangrove I must leave an hour before my round and the round itself will take about 4 1/2 sometimes 5 hours.  So if I left at noon I wouldn't typically return home until 6.  I can leave my house for my 9:45 Friday game at Bayou at 9, check in, dress, warm up, play, settle debts in the bar, hit a few balls, stop at Starbucks and be home by 1.  It's a different world.

 

You certainly can't compare the food so I won't even try it.  While the food and liquor prices at Bayou are a bit more its totally worth it and the beer is the same price.  Having an account also comes in handy although I can see where it might be dangerous.  I don't use the pool (there are two) or tennis courts but my wife does and she enjoys it, I'm happy for her there.  What makes her happiest though is the time thing.  I know when I'll be home when I play at Bayou and I haven't a clue elsewhere, to her that alone is worth the expense, that and the fact that I can play 6 holes if I'd like at the end of the day or before work.

 

So there you have it.  A little summary on the difference between a Muni and Club life.  I enjoy golf, I'm comfortable in either setting but I am enjoying the ability to play a little more golf that the club affords.  There it feels as if its cheaper to play every time I use the facility.  I have to pay for everything that I do at Mangrove except putt.  We will see what the future holds in this regard but for now I'm going to stick at Bayou and play Mangrove once in a while so that I can maintain old friendships and hold on to my roots.

 

 

[apprenti23]

Very cool! Glad to be able to read up on your facilities Rev! In Chicago you can pick your poison, the options are truly endless as you can spend as little to as much as you want. One of the cheaper private clubs I know of has $500 a month for three years with no initiation or monthly minimums. However, your round of golf is still going to boil down to at least $60-$80 after cart/caddy fee and food/drink during the round. You can also find golf at public course as cheap as $20 at a run down muni or spend $200 to play at a nice semi-private club. Basically how much do you want to spend and what do you want to receive?

[jbil8802]

Great post Rev. Definitely spot on from what I've experienced at my club so far.

[PlaidJacket]

Very nice write-up Rev. I wish we could play one day.

One thing I picked up in your article was how well does a course "travel". To be honest I don't think I'd ever thought about my local courses that way before. The club I'm a member of is an old mid-50's design and one of the better tracks in the area. It incorporates a good mix of standard golf course features such as tree lined fairways, water, sand, etc. The course offers limited elevation change and the fairways are flat. The bent greens are small old style push-up designs but in excellent shape. The bermuda fairways are closely mown and in nice condition. Overall, the course is a good one and is maintained well. It's fairly short (6600 yds. - back tee) but still a challenge. However, my course doesn't "travel" well. But I do. I get around quite a bit to other parts of the country and have played many courses from east coast to west coast and points in between. For me; and my biggest challenges when playing courses around the state and country are elevation change and uneven sloped fairways. Having a course to play day in and out that travels is a big plus in my book. Therefore Rev, 2 strokes a side please.

[wbealsd]

An excellent post Rev.  Options are somewhat more limited where I live, as would be expected in a more sparsely populated area, but you point out the similarities very well.

 

As much as I'm enjoying playing the muni this year, and the annual rate is roughly half of what I'll pay at the local CC, I'm seriously considering rejoining the Country Club next year.

 

My local CC is really a "Golf Club," no pool, no tennis courts and if they had them, my wife would be interested in membership.  They do have a nice restaurant though, and it's close to our house and prices are comparable to other quality dining in the area.

 

The factors you point out, timeliness of play, practice facilities, condition of the course are important to me and that's where the CC stands out.  The fact it's only 7 miles from my house, also makes it much more convenient and easier for me to schedule my time.

 

I've found I'm just not playing on the weekends at all this summer, with my muni membership.  At the CC, I can book a time and know I'll be home no later than 4 hours from door-to-door (usually less), while at the muni, it can easily run 6 hours or more for the roundtrip.

[Kenny B]

Nice writeup Rev... you lost me talking about locker rooms at munis.    We have no locker rooms at any munis in my area.  (Well, I can think of maybe one course that might have a few lockers, but no shower facilities).  

 

A game that travels well is why I don't keep score at the course where I am a member.  I honestly don't think the rating is legit, so it's a course where I practice shots and have fun games with friends.  If I only recorded  rounds played at this course, my HCP would be 7 strokes lower, and I can barely hold my own on other courses with my 9.4.  I just checked my GHIN scores and I have played 16 different courses in 4 states over the last 7 months, so my GHIN reflects how I play when I travel.

 

I would be interested in an estimate of what it costs playing for a year at Mangrove vs. Bayou.  I have thought about joining a club, and if I added up all of the costs of my practice course membership, travel costs including green fees, food and lodging, it might be cheaper to join a Club.  However, I like to travel and see other courses, so I will continue my current style of play.  Once travel becomes difficult, I will likely join a local club and be one of these old duffers that kfilly20 mentioned.  

 

Thanks for the great writeup.  You guys in Florida have a lot more options for clubs than we do here in the wild, wild west!!

[Fireinthehole]

The club I am at, I only pay 250 a month with no initiation fee- helps to be under 40. It does have a pool, which I will probably never use. The range is fairly small so you get your own balls, and very unlikely you get to use the grass tees when it's busy. The fence maxes at 250 yds and I can't hit driver there because I go over the fence and into the pond in the back. The pro will let me use the first hole as a driving range, though only on Sunday night.

 

It is one of the cheapest in the area, there is another course that has all the services you pointed out. Its odd but the pace of play can be absolutely dreadful. I'm talking 3 hr 9s or 6hr 18s (I blame the 5 and 6somes). I'm sorry but for a private course that's unacceptable. But I've learned to call ahead.

Like you pointed out the population of the public courses is so eclectic!

 

Can't forget the huge % off we get off all titleist merch at the club though.

[revkev]

Thanks guys - @Plaid Jacket two a side huh - well lets play a very hilly course and do it.   Actually I have issues with elevation changes as well because I don't get to play courses with them too often.  It's funny because Connecticut has them and I also used to play lots of Northern Michigan.  But you do get out of practice when you don't do something for a while.

 

@ Apprenti, the way I figure it my club is going to run $75 to $85 a round.  But if I wanted to play a comparable daily fee course, Copperhead, TPC Tampa Bay, I'm going to drive 45 minutes, not have the benefits and pay that much or more.  It's what you pay to play a quality golf course.  The one exception is World Woods which can often be had for a song (under $50 for a top 100 course you can play.)  It's also out of the way from anywhere. 

[silver & black]

I play munis....and I always will, because just surviving is a struggle. Golf truly is an elitist sport/game for the well to do.

 

I'm in no way suggesting any of you have an elitist attitude, but we start threads asking how do we grow the game? Well... you can't when 90% of all the people barely make enough money to survive day to day. Golf is always going to be a "rich man's game." The rest of us just have to be content with hitting balls around the local munis.

 

I'm sorry if I offended anyone. It really wasn't my intent. If this post needs to be moved or deleted, please, do what you must.

[fozcycle]

I play munis....and I always will, because just surviving is a struggle. Golf truly is an elitist sport/game for the well to do.

 

I'm in no way suggesting any of you have an elitist attitude, but we start threads asking how do we grow the game? Well... you can't when 90% of all the people barely make enough money to survive day to day. Golf is always going to be a "rich man's game." The rest of us just have to be content with hitting balls around the local munis.

 

I'm sorry if I offended anyone. It really wasn't my intent. If this post needs to be moved or deleted, please, do what you must.

 

 

S & B, you probably don't spend as much $$$ on Golf as some spend on Fishing or Hunting or Cycling or Scuba Diving.  None of these are elitist sporting activities.  They are activities shared by folks of all walks of life.  It's just a matter of priorities.  There is nothing wrong with playing Munis.  I grew up on a muni, have belonged to several Clubs, but chose to run a weekly game at a public course (not run by a govt entity so it's technically not a Muni).  However, it is not private but it is a challenging track where all kinds of golfers gather to enjoy a weekly round and plenty of beer afterwards.  I am proud to be a member of a "Muni".

[revkev]

No silver and black opinions are important and yours is a valid one.  One of golf's issues is cost regardless of where one plays.  One of the points to my post is that it remains golf even at a muni and in fact there are benefits to municipal courses over private clubs beyond cost, for example you are able to meet a more diverse group of people at a muni than at a club.

 

Wealth or lack there of is often a matter of perspective.  I grew up in an exceedingly wealthy area (Fairfield County CT) although relatively speaking my family was not wealthy (relatively again.)  Since that time I have primarily lived in working class areas including a rural farming community that's primary industry outside of farming were small factories associated with the auto and RV industries.   The county that I live in now has 1 million people in it and the counties next to us are more dense.  You have everything and anything you could imagine here except mountains and snow.  There are other places in the world where a meal in a day is more than one might get or where an hour of electricity is all that is allotted or there is no electricity at all.  Golf does not matter much in those places.

 

As we go into 4th of July weekend those of us who live in the US should be particularly thankful for what we have and respectful of those who don't.

[Jmikecpa]

Rev - can I share this with my wife to justify joining a club?  May carry more weight since it was done by a man of the cloth!

[jaxbeachpackerfan]

Great description Rev!   Clearly was the situation I experienced up north in Wisconsin.  Down here in Jacksonville, however, I would have to offer a different category.  Jacksonville does not have a single municipal golf course (and Jacksonville after consolidation encompasses all of Duval Country).  My beach hamlet, Jacksonville Beach, has one.  Good design, but somewhat average to poor condition (just ask Bones' friend who played it a college tournament a couple of years ago).  I play it about once a year, although I use its range regularly since its less than five minutes away.  There are about two or three privately owned courses that are muni quality and muni prices.

 

Instead of munis, there are semi-private clubs, a lot of them.  These are housing development courses--probably were intended to be private clubs but couldn't quite attract the membership to support it.  They have regular members, usually no initiation fee and dues ranging from $600 to $1,000 a year.  But the public can play any time at rates ranging from $25 to $60.  They are much better conditioned and maintained, high quality designs, but a level below what a private club would have.  They have the regular club amenities of good food, nice grill room, full locker rooms, bag and cart guys, decent ranges.  I would belong to one of these if not for my TPC Valley membership (a whole other category entirely).

[Kenny B]

Great description Rev!   Clearly was the situation I experienced up north in Wisconsin.  Down here in Jacksonville, however, I would have to offer a different category.  Jacksonville does not have a single municipal golf course (and Jacksonville after consolidation encompasses all of Duval Country).  My beach hamlet, Jacksonville Beach, has one.  Good design, but somewhat average to poor condition (just ask Bones' friend who played it a college tournament a couple of years ago).  I play it about once a year, although I use its range regularly since its less than five minutes away.  There are about two or three privately owned courses that are muni quality and muni prices.

 

Instead of munis, there are semi-private clubs, a lot of them.  These are housing development courses--probably were intended to be private clubs but couldn't quite attract the membership to support it.  They have regular members, usually no initiation fee and dues ranging from $600 to $1,000 a year.  But the public can play any time at rates ranging from $25 to $60.  They are much better conditioned and maintained, high quality designs, but a level below what a private club would have.  They have the regular club amenities of good food, nice grill room, full locker rooms, bag and cart guys, decent ranges.  I would belong to one of these if not for my TPC Valley membership (a whole other category entirely).

 

See that's where you guys in Florida have a big advantage over the rest of us.  Lots of courses, developed to be private, but had to go semi-pritvate to pay the bills.  Nice courses and cheap to be members.  We have a private club with a big initiation fee, and expensive monthly dues.  We also have a semi-private club like you describe with daily fee access for non-members, but to join it will cost about $2400 a year; nice restaurant, tennis, but no pool.  It's not worth it to me when I want to travel to play golf.

[revkev]

@Jmikecpa - of course - share away I'm always happy to add to a couple's marital bliss.

 

Yes, when it comes to golf we are very fortunate in Florida.  It's easy enough to figure the difference between Mangrove and Bayou, Kenny.  Mangrove is $38 in the summer, $43 in the winter plus another $5 for a bucket of balls.  So let's say that I play 40 rounds there last year at $40 per, $1,600 for my rounds.  Throw in another 20 rounds at places that would average $50 and I'm at $2,600.  Next would be range costs for practice another $400.  So total that's around 3K for golf annually. 

 

Bayou is $400 but they are saying that they will do $300 a month for a year for the summer members who continue (I have a four month deal at $150) but we want apples to apples.  It's also a $22 cart fee and there is no cost for the range or no additional cost if I decide to walk (if I'm playing 9 or less I walk.)  Assuming $300 it will be $3,600 plus another $1,100 in cart fees or $4,700.  That's significantly more but consider that there is unlimited practice (I would refrain from practicing before because of cost and/or time constraints - now if I want to hit 25 balls and 25 balls only I'll go to the range or just wedges or just a few drivers it's a different deal.)  Also there is a health club that both my wife and I are using (I've lost 7lbs), the pool that she will use.  I would play tennis if I could find someone to play with.

 

It's more expensive but it is so much more golf course that it is like comparing apples to soy beans.  It's going to be $75 a round if you want to play top quality courses in our area - I get the top quality course and some perks as well including pace of play.  We have none of those semi private courses around where I live, there are tons of them in the Northern part of our county but I could get to Foz's course in Tampa easier than getting to one of those and that's a 45 minute drive.

[wbealsd]

I play munis....and I always will, because just surviving is a struggle. Golf truly is an elitist sport/game for the well to do.

 

I'm in no way suggesting any of you have an elitist attitude, but we start threads asking how do we grow the game? Well... you can't when 90% of all the people barely make enough money to survive day to day. Golf is always going to be a "rich man's game." The rest of us just have to be content with hitting balls around the local munis.

 

I'm sorry if I offended anyone. It really wasn't my intent. If this post needs to be moved or deleted, please, do what you must.

My first few times at the Country Club last year, I kind of felt like Jack (on Titanic) when he was invited up from steerage for dinner on the main deck

 

The members I played with always made me feel welcome though, and all things considered, it's not a particularly expensive (nor exclusive) club.

 

The biggest difference is probably that, since it's only features are golf and dining/bar, everybody that belongs actually plays golf and tends to feel a sense of ownership of the course.  Players fill their divots, clean up divot marks on the greens, rake bunkers and generally know (and play) the rules of golf.

 

Just got an email from the muni that tee-times for the weekend are filling up.  That means, if I play there this weekend, I can expect a VERY long round. 

[Kenny B]

My practice club is not a muni, but is owned and run by a pro on a shoestring. That's why it's cheap (for here) to play. There are very few rules, and no tee times... Ever! You show up and either get in line to tee off #1 or if the course is not particularly crowded, go find an empty hole and fit yourself in. A general rule is that you don't jump in front of someone on the previous green, but even that rule is not widely followed.

 

If the parking lot is really crowded, then you have two options. Get in line on #1 and expect a slow round, or just drive on by and try later in the day! Right now, the course is wide open most all the time past 11am because by noon, the temperature is already over 100*!

[wbealsd]

The muni I'm playing is pretty cool about letting me "hop on" wherever it's open, which using isn't a problem Monday thru Friday, but with this being a holiday weekend, they're already booked up past noon tomorrow.

 

If it's crowded, I can always hit the range and the practice area, so at least I can work on some things we went over in the lessons this week

[mizuno_lover]

Silver and Black I thought what you said was excellent what was even better was that it was an honest opinion.  I don't necessarily agree that it is exclusively a rich mans sport but rich men/women have more funds to join better clubs etc for sure.  If it was exclusively a rich mans sport you and I wouldn't be teeing it up at all.  Yes I am a member of a club but I am also a pensioner and live on a veterans pension and my superannuation.  I budget budget budget  to do those things is all.

 

As I said in another thread this is the best golfing forum on the net because people respect and value each others opinions and don't rip the arse out of your pants for having an opinion so once again thanks for having your say mate

[MattF]

Great description Rev!   Clearly was the situation I experienced up north in Wisconsin.  Down here in Jacksonville, however, I would have to offer a different category.  Jacksonville does not have a single municipal golf course (and Jacksonville after consolidation encompasses all of Duval Country).  My beach hamlet, Jacksonville Beach, has one.  Good design, but somewhat average to poor condition (just ask Bones' friend who played it a college tournament a couple of years ago).  I play it about once a year, although I use its range regularly since its less than five minutes away.  There are about two or three privately owned courses that are muni quality and muni prices.

 

Instead of munis, there are semi-private clubs, a lot of them.  These are housing development courses--probably were intended to be private clubs but couldn't quite attract the membership to support it.  They have regular members, usually no initiation fee and dues ranging from $600 to $1,000 a year.  But the public can play any time at rates ranging from $25 to $60.  They are much better conditioned and maintained, high quality designs, but a level below what a private club would have.  They have the regular club amenities of good food, nice grill room, full locker rooms, bag and cart guys, decent ranges.  I would belong to one of these if not for my TPC Valley membership (a whole other category entirely).

 

This is one of the reasons I'm looking forward to our eventual move to the Ft Myers area. There's a lot of these types of courses there and the prices aren't all that outragous. I may even end up joining a "club" down there.

[revkev]

Fort Myers is less than two hours away Matt. Do you go there to visit in the Winter now? If so let's plan on getting together next winter.

[Jmikecpa]

I play munis....and I always will, because just surviving is a struggle. Golf truly is an elitist sport/game for the well to do.

 

I'm in no way suggesting any of you have an elitist attitude, but we start threads asking how do we grow the game? Well... you can't when 90% of all the people barely make enough money to survive day to day. Golf is always going to be a "rich man's game." The rest of us just have to be content with hitting balls around the local munis.

 

I'm sorry if I offended anyone. It really wasn't my intent. If this post needs to be moved or deleted, please, do what you must.

Nothing wrong with playing munis and my current course the last four years on Long Island is a muni. I play on Saturday mornings with a great group and you can't beat the course for $51 a round with a cart. That being said I am currently shopping for a private club for a few reasons.

 

First being my family. I already pay for a pool membership and golf lessons for the kids which work out less expensive at the club I am looking at. Second is that my son wants to keep pursuing golf and they have a great junior program. Last reason is for business purposes. I do a lot of deals on the course and having somewhere to take clients is a plus for me.

 

If it were just for golf I would stay a muni guy for the long haul and heck I have the best muni in the country ten minutes away at Bethpage.

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

Played this muni yesterday.  Edinburgh USA is a muni, in that it's owned by the city of Brooklyn Park, MN. It's a Robert Trent Jones (of Chambers Bay fame) course, and is one of the top rates courses - public or private - in Minnesota.  And it's only $57 to walk ($45 on Monday, $29 after 3PM). 

 

They used to hold an LPGA event there, as well as US Public Links events.  It recently underwent a big renovation that made it a hell of a lot less punitive. They removed over 100 bunkers, some trees and other obstacles that made it the Bataan Death March for we mere mortals...

 

Signature hold is #17 - the only island fairway I've ever seen. Talk about a daunting tee shot!

 

It's a 45 minute hike for me, but after playing it for the first time, it's definitely in the rota...

 

 

 

 

 

When it comes to "elitist," well yeah, in some circles it probably is. The whole point of a private club is that it's, well, private, and the membership gets to choose who gets in and who doesn't. Money is just one hurdle. Heck, there are stories floating around that Tom Brady may have trouble getting into The Country Club!  

 

Played yesterday with my buddy, golf author, teaching pro and all around renaissance man Bryan Skavnak,who had an interesting take.  His feeling is that golf doesn't need to "grow," simply because no one knows what that really means.  The PGA and USGA certainly haven't been able to make heads or tails of it.  HIs thought, and the more I think about it, it makes sense to me, is that the game needs to be "sustained." Keep introducing new players to the game, but to expect another "Tiger Boom" isn't realistic.  Yeah, some courses are going to close down and become housing developments - that's the way of the world. The industry will more than likely need to "right-size" itself, but there will always be opportunities for all income brackets to play.

 

Bryan's home course? A driving range and pitch 'n putt right next to a prison (it's staffed by work-release inmates)...so he's certainly not a Country Club type 

[apprenti23]

I've been saying that for years John- unattainable goals are not goals they're dreams. Had multiple conversations with past PGA President Ted Bishop on this very subject. I'm of the same opinion that golf does not need to "grow" and if anything I feel we need more courses to close. I like a healthy supply and demand. Right now the supply (after the tiger boom and recession) greatly outweighs the demand. Hence, we have ezlinks, golfnow, etc. devaluing great courses. Then there are some with just asinine prices. Would love to see a healthier supply and demand.

[fozcycle]

My club (Pebble Creek) is a public course with memberships. I moved the Saturday Blitz here 6 years ago when my previous club was closing. We started with about 24 golfers each week paying $30 to play. Now, 6 years later, non members still pay only $30 to play year round(about $10 cheaper than others not in our game) and we now average between 35 to 42 golfers. I guess the type of game is helping to sustain the Game. We play a Staleford Points game with Skins & Pins. Currently there are over 100 players with 30 qualifiers.(they have to play 4 rounds to qualify to get in the game).

 

So, although the club is public, we like to think of it as a great place where members and non members can congregate for a good time.

[MattF]

Fort Myers is less than two hours away Matt. Do you go there to visit in the Winter now? If so let's plan on getting together next winter.

 

Not sure if we're going this winter Rev...the in-laws were skunked on a condo rental and they can't find anything now.

[revkev]

Not sure if we're going this winter Rev...the in-laws were skunked on a condo rental and they can't find anything now.

Tell them to look at St Pete, seriously, there's more to do here because it's easy access to Tampa or even Orlando. We have two of the top ten beaches in the world. We have four Spring training sites. Even though traffic is a pain we have better roads so it's easier access on and off the beaches. St Pete is a great city.

 

The one negative is that Fort Myers has better golf choices. It's slimmer pickings when you get close to the water here unless you're willing to join a private club. But if they were to find a place around Clearwater there are some nice public options then.

[revkev]

My club (Pebble Creek) is a public course with memberships. I moved the Saturday Blitz here 6 years ago when my previous club was closing. We started with about 24 golfers each week paying $30 to play. Now, 6 years later, non members still pay only $30 to play year round(about $10 cheaper than others not in our game) and we now average between 35 to 42 golfers. I guess the type of game is helping to sustain the Game. We play a Staleford Points game with Skins & Pins. Currently there are over 100 players with 30 qualifiers.(they have to play 4 rounds to qualify to get in the game).

So, although the club is public, we like to think of it as a great place where members and non members can congregate for a good time.

In the end isn't this what golf is about, finding a group of people to have fun with?

[jbil8802]

In the end isn't this what golf is about, finding a group of people to have fun with?

I've been fortunate enough in my first few weeks at my club to find some good groups to play with. On Saturdays and Sundays they do a "men's open" where anyone can sign up and the pro shop picks the teams and format. Usually a $10 buy in. I also found a group of members that play 3 times a week for a few dollars. Really enjoying it so far.

[kfilly20]

S & B, you probably don't spend as much $$$ on Golf as some spend on Fishing or Hunting or Cycling or Scuba Diving.  None of these are elitist sporting activities.  They are activities shared by folks of all walks of life.  It's just a matter of priorities.  There is nothing wrong with playing Munis.  I grew up on a muni, have belonged to several Clubs, but chose to run a weekly game at a public course (not run by a govt entity so it's technically not a Muni).  However, it is not private but it is a challenging track where all kinds of golfers gather to enjoy a weekly round and plenty of beer afterwards.  I am proud to be a member of a "Muni".

 

I'd have to disagree. You can spend $100 and be able to fish every day for a year. You can have a initial $500-$1000 charge (the bike) and be able to cycle for years and years. There are people that spend an obscene amount on those things but if you want to you can do it really cheap. Unless you know people who have hook ups or are just willing to hit the range you cannot golf regularly for cheap. Now you can buy used or crap clubs and only golf once a month and then its pretty cheap. But if you are even kind of serious about golf it is really really expensive. You pay a few times a week and you're paying $500 a month easy. Course fees, range balls, clubs, balls, betting, food on the course, lessons ... etc ... It is borderline impossible to golf cheaply.

 

I am lucky to know a lot of people where I live so I get on most of the local courses for free. This keeps my wife off my ass about golf. But if I was paying for everything like I figure most people have to I'd easily be paying $150 a week. Thats a lot of money.