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Adidas selling TaylorMade?


TIBA_Putt - Kyle

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http://www.standard.co.uk/business/business-news/adidas-set-to-sell-struggling-golf-brands-as-revenues-sink-26-10442832.html

 

Is it surprising that TaylorMade revenue isnt great?? When it seems like they've got a new driver out ever six months, how can you build anticipating for a new product and generate interest in the market?

I think they'd be better served in scaling back new products and release in two year cycles like Titleist does.

 

Thoughts on the future of TMag?

TIBA Putt - Discover your best stroke.

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It does make one wonder where the future lies for a company like Taylor Made.  Perhaps they will get sold off and eventually disappear like so many others have.  Then they reappear.  Hasn't TMag had several reincarnations already or at least one.  Hogan is doing it with there brand coming back better than ever.  As far as I can see TMag and Callaway have shot themselves in the foot by releasing so many models so quickly.  Club Ho's can only keep buying a certain amount of clubs before they too go broke and to ask the golfing public to keep buying clubs every 12 months is a joke that will be on them in the end.  The number of new golfers that come into the game are always going to buy 2nd hand clubs to see if they like the game and the glut of new clubs on the market is crazy at the moment.  How do retailers like Divot sell new sets for as cheap as they do?  I think apart from the quality club makers like Mizuno, Titleist, Ping, Cobra to name a few there will be a lot that go by the wayside simply and sadly because of economics.

My Bag

 

Driver:  :ping-small: G25 Stiff shaft
3 Wood:  :mizuno-small: JPX 850 16 degree. Fujikara Orichi 65 gram stiff shaft
Hybrids: 3 & 4 :mizuno-small: JPX 850 Fujikara Orichi 65 gram regular shafts
Irons:  :mizuno-small: MP- H5 3 - 6 iron dynamic gold XP 115 gram stiff soft stepped
Irons:  :mizuno-small: MP 54 4 - PW dynamic gold S300
Wedges:   :mizuno-small: MP T4 52 degree,  :titelist-small: :vokey-small: 56 degree 10 degree bounce, :titelist-small: :vokey-small: 60 degree 10 degree bounce.
Putter:  :ping-small: ZB S

 

Evil prospers when good men do nothing.

 

Honorary member Texas BBQ Curtin Circa 2015 

 

 

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No golf company aside from ping seems to be "safe" heck even titleist were sold. If they do tank that'd be unfortunate- the more competition, the more choices.

 

Might pick up a set of the rsi tour preferred if they get cheap ;)

My Mixed-Bag:

 

Driver:      :callaway-small: Mavrik Sub zero, ventus black 7x

Fairway:     Still looking!

Irons:         :mizuno-small:MP-18 MB 4-PW

Wedges:     Miura K Grinds

Putter:       Evnroll 1.2 blade

Ball:        :srixon-small: Z star XV

 

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I don't see them tanking - the name is appealing, they've effectively eliminated a strong competitor from the market place in the Adams debacle (or not).  In some ways its more dangerous to do the buying than to be the bought one.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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Mizzie

 

Cobra? Titleist? Quality? Just perceptions.

 

What makes them or mizuno higher quality or more likely to be sold on? Cobra has after all failed and ended up with Puma. TM outsells all others - that alone makes them valuable in the golfing world.

 

Now, can Adidas afford to lose them? Of course they can. Will they? Highly doubt it.

 

They need to dump adams and ashworth brands and then it's all good for them.

Rest in peace long sticks - I'll remember you

 

TM Burner Superfast 2.0 TP Regular

TM RBZ Stage 2 Fairway 14.5 stiff

Adams Blue Hybrid No. 3 stiff

Adams Super xtdHybrid 21.5 Stiff

 

Ping G30 4 and 5 Iron - Regular CFS Shaft

Ping i25 6 - PW Regular CFS Shaft

TM Y Groove Gap Wedge

Cleveland CG10 Sand Wedge

 

PingTR Piper Putter, adjustable shaft, SuperStroke Fatso

 

Titleist StaDry Cart Bag

 

Motocaddy S3 Pro Trolley

 

Foot Joy City, Adidas Boost Boa and Adidas Superstar shoes

 

Pro V1x in the summer, Titleist Velocity in the winter.

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Yes Westy just perceptions I guess but perceptions are important when it comes to the buying public because they are the ones that spend their heard earned on clubs.  I think the fact that Cobra was raised from the dead says something about the quality that was percieved out there but I don't know what their profit and loss sheet is like.

 

I hope TM does survive but in this day and age of profits over sentiment it would surprise me to see them sold off and if the article I read is correct and TM is only 6% of Adidas turnover for the year it is a very small chunk of the Adidas Empire.  Remember that's turnover they are talking about not profit.  Time will tell and my fingers are crossed for them and I wouldn't mind a set of RSi 2's either ;)

My Bag

 

Driver:  :ping-small: G25 Stiff shaft
3 Wood:  :mizuno-small: JPX 850 16 degree. Fujikara Orichi 65 gram stiff shaft
Hybrids: 3 & 4 :mizuno-small: JPX 850 Fujikara Orichi 65 gram regular shafts
Irons:  :mizuno-small: MP- H5 3 - 6 iron dynamic gold XP 115 gram stiff soft stepped
Irons:  :mizuno-small: MP 54 4 - PW dynamic gold S300
Wedges:   :mizuno-small: MP T4 52 degree,  :titelist-small: :vokey-small: 56 degree 10 degree bounce, :titelist-small: :vokey-small: 60 degree 10 degree bounce.
Putter:  :ping-small: ZB S

 

Evil prospers when good men do nothing.

 

Honorary member Texas BBQ Curtin Circa 2015 

 

 

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Mizzie

 

Cobra? Titleist? Quality? Just perceptions.

 

What makes them or mizuno higher quality or more likely to be sold on? Cobra has after all failed and ended up with Puma. TM outsells all others - that alone makes them valuable in the golfing world.

 

Now, can Adidas afford to lose them? Of course they can. Will they? Highly doubt it.

 

They need to dump adams and ashworth brands and then it's all good for them.

Well, Adidas has hired high-profile people who deal in selling companies like TMAG, so dont be so quick to say it wont happen.

"I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." - Chick Evans

Whats in my Sun Mountain 2.5+ stand bag?

Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5* 

Hybrid: Mizuno MP Fli-Hi 3H

Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons

Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper

Putter: Mizuno Bettinardi A-02

Ball: Maxfli Tour X

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They sell TM then they won't have any players, so that's the end of Adidas golf wear and shoes in my opinion.

 

TM might only be 6% and golf might be diminishing market for them - so of course it may happen. But 6% of loads is still a lot and the only reason they'd sell is because they cannot see a profitable future in golf - that would seem a big problem for golf generally.

 

if that's the case then how much threat is Cobra under? They are much smaller than TM and can't make much money for Puma.

 

How long before Nike chuck it in because they can't break through in clubs and balls?

Rest in peace long sticks - I'll remember you

 

TM Burner Superfast 2.0 TP Regular

TM RBZ Stage 2 Fairway 14.5 stiff

Adams Blue Hybrid No. 3 stiff

Adams Super xtdHybrid 21.5 Stiff

 

Ping G30 4 and 5 Iron - Regular CFS Shaft

Ping i25 6 - PW Regular CFS Shaft

TM Y Groove Gap Wedge

Cleveland CG10 Sand Wedge

 

PingTR Piper Putter, adjustable shaft, SuperStroke Fatso

 

Titleist StaDry Cart Bag

 

Motocaddy S3 Pro Trolley

 

Foot Joy City, Adidas Boost Boa and Adidas Superstar shoes

 

Pro V1x in the summer, Titleist Velocity in the winter.

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They sell TM then they won't have any players, so that's the end of Adidas golf wear and shoes in my opinion.

 

TM might only be 6% and golf might be diminishing market for them - so of course it may happen. But 6% of loads is still a lot and the only reason they'd sell is because they cannot see a profitable future in golf - that would seem a big problem for golf generally.

 

if that's the case then how much threat is Cobra under? They are much smaller than TM and can't make much money for Puma.

 

How long before Nike chuck it in because they can't break through in clubs and balls?

Nike has already to decided to chuck it.  I hear they're farther down the road than Addidas.  

Nonchalant putts count the same as chalant putts.

In my Ogio Ozone XX Cart Stand Bag:

Ping G400 10.5 Deg Driver, stock Stiff shaft
TM Rocketballz 19 Deg 5 Wood, stock Matrix Osik Stiff shaft
TM Rocketballz Stage 2 21 Deg Tour 4 Hybrid, Rocketfuel 80h Stiff shaft 

Callaway Apex CF 16 Irons, 4-P, Stiff Shafts
 
Scor 48 and 55 degree wedges.  
Renegar 60 Deg Steel Shaft Lob Wedge

TM Ghost Spider Si 38" Counterbalanced Putter

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If we end up with fewer companies making kit, the prices go up and innovation goes down.

 

Nike clubs and balls to under armour?

 

Anyway let's how it plays out, I note the quote from Adidas (on golfwrx) suggests TM have a new driver for our delectation incoming. Come on MGS crew let's see what they've come up with!

 

Turbulators? Go faster stripes? Movable fin technology? Retro bubble shafts?

Rest in peace long sticks - I'll remember you

 

TM Burner Superfast 2.0 TP Regular

TM RBZ Stage 2 Fairway 14.5 stiff

Adams Blue Hybrid No. 3 stiff

Adams Super xtdHybrid 21.5 Stiff

 

Ping G30 4 and 5 Iron - Regular CFS Shaft

Ping i25 6 - PW Regular CFS Shaft

TM Y Groove Gap Wedge

Cleveland CG10 Sand Wedge

 

PingTR Piper Putter, adjustable shaft, SuperStroke Fatso

 

Titleist StaDry Cart Bag

 

Motocaddy S3 Pro Trolley

 

Foot Joy City, Adidas Boost Boa and Adidas Superstar shoes

 

Pro V1x in the summer, Titleist Velocity in the winter.

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For me, it makes sense to sell off the company while it still enjoys a large slice of the market share. To be honest, Fortune Brands made a wise decision on selling off Titleist but the market was (and still is) pretty saturated with golf equipment. 

Adidas don't really need the golf side to make any impact on it's core business, just as Fortune Brands didn't need the golf side either.

The revenue stream is pretty constant, but the margins are pretty minimal - especially when you consider the cost of R&D, advertising and player endorsements. So the timing is about right to sell off what is a bit of a high maintenance side of a multi billion dollar business. Callaway are probably still kicking themselves they didn't do something similar while they had a chance to do so a few years back.

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Got a flyer from Dicks and it had a coupon for 25% ping bags and hats- those things are never on sale!

Even trade in for ping equipment??????

Maybe I was wrong. These new irons they release, feels like just yesterday the g30 had come out.

My Mixed-Bag:

 

Driver:      :callaway-small: Mavrik Sub zero, ventus black 7x

Fairway:     Still looking!

Irons:         :mizuno-small:MP-18 MB 4-PW

Wedges:     Miura K Grinds

Putter:       Evnroll 1.2 blade

Ball:        :srixon-small: Z star XV

 

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A lot of people complain golf isn't innovating. Every new material has a name we don't know or never heard of rather than the big effects from persimmon to actual titanium drivers. Compound that with constant sales, drivers being brand new and in a few months being outdated... there's no way to make money that way.

 Driver:   :callaway-small:  Epic Flash 12 Degree

Wood: :callaway-small:  GBB 3 Wood
Hybrid: :callaway-small: Razr 4 hybriid stiff stock shaft.
Irons: :callaway-small: X2 Hot 4 iron (pro version) 5 iron - Gap Wedge (non pro version).  KBS 120g Shaft stiff cut 1/2  inch bent 1°upright
Wedges: :vokey-small: 52° 56° and 60°.
All grips are Golf pride grips midsized
Putter (lefty):  Odyssey Metal-X #8 34", stock shaft bent 2° Superstroke grip
Golf Balls:   :titelist-small: 2018-9 Pro-V1x and Prov1s
Shoes:  :footjoy-small:  Dryjoy tours

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If/When adidas sells TaylorMade it will most likely be to somebody most of hadn't considered, or had never heard of. Maybe Goodyear wants to join Bridgestone and Sumitomo in the golf industry. Who knows...

 

It's extremely unlikely it will be UnderArmour. adidas isn't likely to sell to a competitor, let alone one that's been steadily taking market share out of its ass for the last few years. If UnderArmour has a hard goods target, it's most likely Callaway. They're doing the right things, but other than the golf ball, they don't have viable high-margin products in the lineup (apparel, footwear, that sort of thing), so in that regard, it makes sense. That said, Spieth is under contract with Titleist for the next little while (and extremely happy with the product he's playing), so they can't put him in UA clubs right now, so I think it's unlikely they'll do anything until there's it's possible to fully leverage their marquee athelete.

 

Regarding the Nike is getting out of the golf equipment business stuff...it's a nearly annual rumor, and they always seem to originate with somebody's father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate. I've had 3 separate conversations with confidential sources who would be positioned to know of any plans for Nike to bail completely.

 

I've found absolutely nothing to suggest it's going to happen.

 

What I think is happening is that Nike is changing how it markets and sells hard goods. I can't tell you that I know exactly what that looks like, but when it shakes out it's going to be different from the rest of the industry, but that's hardly the same as getting out of hard goods entirely. How much sense does it make that nearly an entire industry has a price cutting process that's basically scheduled (and where everybody's margins drop measurably). XR and AeroBurner for example, barely maintained price for 6 months. It doesn't make sense from a business perspective, so why play along?

 

I also don't understand the assertions that golf isn't innovating. I'm not sure if it's a lack of knowledge or an overabundance of great expectations. The USGA is a pain in the ass for sure, but companies are steadily working around them (to the point where the USGA will probably need to update their restrictions). Material changes are real, and while I'm not a big fan of the way companies toss around new titanium allows or magic steel with each release, when you look at things like Mizuno's use of Boron and some things other manufacturers are doing (wait until next week), it's hard to make a legitimate argument that innovation isn't happening. Innovation is evolution...it takes time. Unfortunately accelerated retail cycles give the impression that innovation is stagnant. It's not.

 

Here's what most of us gear-obsessed guys don't often consider...from a technology standpoint, golf is the innovation leader of the sporting world. Launch Monitors, round trackers, swing analyzers, GPS, pro tracer, etc. etc., this is, or at one time, was bleeding edge stuff, and now that it's been successful in golf, it's being adapted for use in baseball, tennis, and elsewhere. I had the opportunity to speak to one of my independent engineering contacts last week. His firm works with clients across the sporting world (and outside of it as well), as he put it, golf has a reputation of being this dying dinosaur, but when it comes to innovation and technology, it's 5 years or more ahead of the curve.

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Personally I don't buy the "innovation" statement about clubs. Shafts maybe, but not club heads. There's only so much you can do within the restrictions of the rules and they've reached it - end of story.

It's not too long ago either that a certain Raymond Floyd shot a course record at Augusta with persimmon, blades and balata that took 21 years to be beaten - and only then by someone with a steel shafted driver and blades.

According to handicap records, the average male handicap hasn't changed much in 40 years - in fact it's slightly risen, even in the wake of alleged technical innovation. Even with the advent of advanced ball analysis radars and software, the greater majority of people will still buy something new off the rack - and that's where TM made their money - and that's what we're really talking about.

Apart from the invention of the metal driver, TM innovated a sales agenda perhaps, but rarely innovated the humble golf club. They may have claimed it at the time, but if that claim were true, then where is that "innovation" now? In the bargain bin that's where - next to the persimmon and blades.

Equipment innovation is basic at best. 

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All fair points T

 

I'd be sad to see Adidas jump ship. Many of you won't have liked their antics with the 7 yards longer, rocket ballz etc. But, I for one have quite enjoyed the shenanigans of TM, Callaway etc over recent years. Clubs are cheaper (see previous MGS articles) and better than ever and what would we talk about on this site?

 

Innovation is rife in golf, maybe not so much in drivers anymore. But irons, fairways, putters, GPS, scopes - cool shoes (let's face it Adidas have brought a lot to that market) etc. we live in a great era.

 

If TM went to Bridgestone, that's fine but then we lose the amazing (but poorly marketed) clubs that Bridgestone make.

 

No chance TM goes to UA - I'd agree with you there. But away from them who else can afford them that won't drive the brand into terminal decline (although you could argue TM are having a dodgy period currently).

 

Anyway we shall see.....

Rest in peace long sticks - I'll remember you

 

TM Burner Superfast 2.0 TP Regular

TM RBZ Stage 2 Fairway 14.5 stiff

Adams Blue Hybrid No. 3 stiff

Adams Super xtdHybrid 21.5 Stiff

 

Ping G30 4 and 5 Iron - Regular CFS Shaft

Ping i25 6 - PW Regular CFS Shaft

TM Y Groove Gap Wedge

Cleveland CG10 Sand Wedge

 

PingTR Piper Putter, adjustable shaft, SuperStroke Fatso

 

Titleist StaDry Cart Bag

 

Motocaddy S3 Pro Trolley

 

Foot Joy City, Adidas Boost Boa and Adidas Superstar shoes

 

Pro V1x in the summer, Titleist Velocity in the winter.

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If/When adidas sells TaylorMade it will most likely be to somebody most of hadn't considered, or had never heard of. Maybe Goodyear wants to join Bridgestone and Sumitomo in the golf industry. Who knows...

 

It's extremely unlikely it will be UnderArmour. adidas isn't likely to sell to a competitor, let alone one that's been steadily taking market share out of its ass for the last few years. If UnderArmour has a hard goods target, it's most likely Callaway. They're doing the right things, but other than the golf ball, they don't have viable high-margin products in the lineup (apparel, footwear, that sort of thing), so in that regard, it makes sense. That said, Spieth is under contract with Titleist for the next little while (and extremely happy with the product he's playing), so they can't put him in UA clubs right now, so I think it's unlikely they'll do anything until there's it's possible to fully leverage their marquee athelete.

 

Regarding the Nike is getting out of the golf equipment business stuff...it's a nearly annual rumor, and they always seem to originate with somebody's father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate. I've had 3 separate conversations with confidential sources who would be positioned to know of any plans for Nike to bail completely.

 

I've found absolutely nothing to suggest it's going to happen.

 

What I think is happening is that Nike is changing how it markets and sells hard goods. I can't tell you that I know exactly what that looks like, but when it shakes out it's going to be different from the rest of the industry, but that's hardly the same as getting out of hard goods entirely. How much sense does it make that nearly an entire industry has a price cutting process that's basically scheduled (and where everybody's margins drop measurably). XR and AeroBurner for example, barely maintained price for 6 months. It doesn't make sense from a business perspective, so why play along?

 

I also don't understand the assertions that golf isn't innovating. I'm not sure if it's a lack of knowledge or an overabundance of great expectations. The USGA is a pain in the ass for sure, but companies are steadily working around them (to the point where the USGA will probably need to update their restrictions). Material changes are real, and while I'm not a big fan of the way companies toss around new titanium allows or magic steel with each release, when you look at things like Mizuno's use of Boron and some things other manufacturers are doing (wait until next week), it's hard to make a legitimate argument that innovation isn't happening. Innovation is evolution...it takes time. Unfortunately accelerated retail cycles give the impression that innovation is stagnant. It's not.

 

Here's what most of us gear-obsessed guys don't often consider...from a technology standpoint, golf is the innovation leader of the sporting world. Launch Monitors, round trackers, swing analyzers, GPS, pro tracer, etc. etc., this is, or at one time, was bleeding edge stuff, and now that it's been successful in golf, it's being adapted for use in baseball, tennis, and elsewhere. I had the opportunity to speak to one of my independent engineering contacts last week. His firm works with clients across the sporting world (and outside of it as well), as he put it, golf has a reputation of being this dying dinosaur, but when it comes to innovation and technology, it's 5 years or more ahead of the curve.

I get exactly what you mean. Perhaps I should say that the innovation hasn't stopped, but perhaps peaked when we went from wood to titanium and then started moving CG's around and moveable weights. I'm not saying that I think it's stopped, just maybe peaked and now it's back to steady.

As for gadgets, you are absolutely right about that part.

 Driver:   :callaway-small:  Epic Flash 12 Degree

Wood: :callaway-small:  GBB 3 Wood
Hybrid: :callaway-small: Razr 4 hybriid stiff stock shaft.
Irons: :callaway-small: X2 Hot 4 iron (pro version) 5 iron - Gap Wedge (non pro version).  KBS 120g Shaft stiff cut 1/2  inch bent 1°upright
Wedges: :vokey-small: 52° 56° and 60°.
All grips are Golf pride grips midsized
Putter (lefty):  Odyssey Metal-X #8 34", stock shaft bent 2° Superstroke grip
Golf Balls:   :titelist-small: 2018-9 Pro-V1x and Prov1s
Shoes:  :footjoy-small:  Dryjoy tours

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If TM went to Bridgestone, that's fine but then we lose the amazing (but poorly marketed) clubs that Bridgestone make.

 

Anyway we shall see.....

Bridgestone irons and tmag metalwoods. Better start saving now.

My Mixed-Bag:

 

Driver:      :callaway-small: Mavrik Sub zero, ventus black 7x

Fairway:     Still looking!

Irons:         :mizuno-small:MP-18 MB 4-PW

Wedges:     Miura K Grinds

Putter:       Evnroll 1.2 blade

Ball:        :srixon-small: Z star XV

 

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