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Drop Zones


PlaidJacket

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There is a par 3 on my home course with a water hazard which must be carried to reach the green. There are four sets of tees. From the ladies tee there is about 60 yards of relatively deep rough (un-mowed grass) to the water. So, if you hit into the water there are a few options available. I'll let Barry Rhodes explain. http://www.barryrhodes.com/2008/11/rule-26-1-relief-for-ball-in-water.html

 

I am thinking about asking our club to establish a "drop Zone" for the hole. Or, asking them to mow the area such when taking a drop you are not dropping in deep rough which can again make for a most difficult shot. To me it seems a little unreasonable to have to drop in deep rough after already being penalized for hitting into the water. I've seen many times a player (including me) drop in the deep rough only to hit into the water a second time or perhaps only advance the ball a few yards. I feel by establishing a local rule and providing a Drop Zone players will have a better chance of recovery and making at best a bogey or double bogey. Also speeding up play. Of course players always have the option of re-teeing (on a tee) on their tee box if they like. Once again from Barry Rhodes site is information on Drop Zones.

 

http://www.barryrhodes.com/2011/10/dropping-zones.html

 

I'm interested to hear if clubs/courses where you play have established Drop Zones.

 

 

 

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A couple have drop zones in my area. Although I was told by our pro that when someone hits a ball in the water you are aloud to take a drop on the the front of the most forward tee box. This may be a local rule though.

 

We have 2 par 3s that are full carry over water. One which can play up to 180 and is always super windy bc it's on a large lake and one that can play up to 240 if they move the tees all the way back. Although they are rarely back there.

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In my experience any time you have a par three that has a forced carry over a water hazard (yellow stakes) it is imperative to have a drop area.

Drop areas do not have to be tee box quality, but closely mown rough is fine. These drop areas are sometimes pin high of the green, short distance with a clear sight to the green (no water to hit over whatsoever) and I have even seen them clear on the other side of the green (imagine you hit it completely over the green).

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In my experience any time you have a par three that has a forced carry over a water hazard (yellow stakes) it is imperative to have a drop area.

Drop areas do not have to be tee box quality, but closely mown rough is fine. These drop areas are sometimes pin high of the green, short distance with a clear sight to the green (no water to hit over whatsoever) and I have even seen them clear on the other side of the green (imagine you hit it completely over the green).

Any drop zone such as you describe which means that you do not have to play from behind the water hazard i.e with the water hazard between you and the green,  is not permissible.  See Decision 33-8/2

 

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-33,d33-8-2

 

That, however, is not what the OP seems to be looking for.  I entirely agree that players should have the opportunity of a decent drop from a water hazard - not least of all because that is clearly what the R&A intends.  If you look at Guidance to Running a Competition, it is clear that the concept is that a player should have a reasonable area in which to drop and is not forced into stroke and distance.

 

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Guidance-on-Running-a-Competition.aspx?chapter=3&section=2

 

Cutting the grass seems an obvious answer.

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In my experience any time you have a par three that has a forced carry over a water hazard (yellow stakes) it is imperative to have a drop area.

Drop areas do not have to be tee box quality, but closely mown rough is fine. These drop areas are sometimes pin high of the green, short distance with a clear sight to the green (no water to hit over whatsoever) and I have even seen them clear on the other side of the green (imagine you hit it completely over the green).

 

I agree with Colin. The idea of a drop area is to provide a golfer with a reasonable area from which to hit his next shot. Not to avoid a hazard. On my course in the example I talked about I would take a line from the pin and where my ball entered the water and drop back as far as I want on that line no closer to the hole. For me and many others I'd much rather move closer to the green and perhaps hit a SW or other wedge. Maybe even knocking it close and making only a bogey. I think a drop area that avoids the water entirely is not what's intended by providing a Drop area. Nor would that be fair. App, I think if your club has a Drop Area that avoids the water you might want to ask your Pro what's up with that.

My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                :edel-golf-1: Willimette w/GolfPride Contour

 

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http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Guidance-on-Running-a-Competition.aspx?chapter=2&section=12

 

As you can see, drop zones are intended solely when it is not feasible or practicable to proceed under the rules - I should add exactly in conformity with the rules. This has nothing to do with "bail out" options or allowing a player to proceed under the assumed condition the hole in question is to be played not as designed or intended. In the case of the OP, it seems pretty clear that options exist where a ball can be dropped under the rules (at least at 4 tees!) which is both feasible and practicable - hence there is no need for a dropping zone. If there is any question to allowing the speed up play of a hole by introducing a situation which contradicts the rules (i.e. making a drop zone where it isn't really needed), this is in breach of the rules and such a local rule cannot be implemented. 

The rules do not contemplate a "reasonable" place to drop under the appropriate method - only the options and procedure. If that means dropping into rough, tough luck but your are not entitled to a "reasonable lie" under any dropping option.

Good luck in asking your club to introduce a DZ, but I'm afraid you may be out of luck - or out of tees.

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http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Guidance-on-Running-a-Competition.aspx?chapter=2&section=12

 

As you can see, drop zones are intended solely when it is not feasible or practicable to proceed under the rules - I should add exactly in conformity with the rules. This has nothing to do with "bail out" options or allowing a player to proceed under the assumed condition the hole in question is to be played not as designed or intended. In the case of the OP, it seems pretty clear that options exist where a ball can be dropped under the rules (at least at 4 tees!) which is both feasible and practicable - hence there is no need for a dropping zone. If there is any question to allowing the speed up play of a hole by introducing a situation which contradicts the rules (i.e. making a drop zone where it isn't really needed), this is in breach of the rules and such a local rule cannot be implemented. 

The rules do not contemplate a "reasonable" place to drop under the appropriate method - only the options and procedure. If that means dropping into rough, tough luck but your are not entitled to a "reasonable lie" under any dropping option.

Good luck in asking your club to introduce a DZ, but I'm afraid you may be out of luck - or out of tees.

 

 

My comment on drop zones was specifically to clarify that drop zones which avoid the requirement to play over the water hazard, as referred to by apprenti23, are not permitted.   It was not meant to be a suggestion that a DZ was necessary in the situation described by the OP.

 

 

The OP describes  60 yards of deep rough in front of the water hazard.  Agreed, the Rules do not say anything about an entitlement to a reasonable  lie from  a drop when taking relief, but  The R&A Guidance to Running a Competition makes it clear that the player should have the opportunity of a reasonable drop.  

 

if, for example, there is a large bush just outside the natural margin of the water hazard, it is suggested that the bush be included within the hazard margins. Otherwise, a player whose ball entered the hazard in this area may not have a reasonable spot at which to drop.

 

It is especially important in the case of lateral water hazards to ensure that the sloping banks of the hazard are included within the margins so that a player dropping a ball within two clublengths of the hazard margin will be dropping on ground from which he will have a reasonable opportunity to make a stroke

 

 

In my view it is not in keeping with this guidance to have a situation where a player wanting to proceed under 26-1b would have to drop in deep rough.  The course should be set up to give the player a realistic choice between 26-1a and 26-1b.  I would avoid DZs wherever possible as they come with their own problems.  It sounds as if mowing a strip in front of the hazard would do the job.

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Most of the courses here have drop areas for the par 3s that carry over a hazard. Now in the interest of it being a tourist area and to speed up play some drop areas are forward of the hazard. Now when I was playing some Mini Tour events they changed the drop zones where they were behind the hazard to conform with USGA and R&A requirements. Also a lot of local "rules officials" designate OB as a lateral hazard to speed up play. With some of those tourist courses if we played an event we would have a 2 page handout of proper rules and admendants from the norm of those courses for tournament play. Really for general recreational non stipulated play I do not see anything wrong with modified rules and it does speed up play even though it may not be "strictly conforming"

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I agree with Colin. The idea of a drop area is to provide a golfer with a reasonable area from which to hit his next shot. Not to avoid a hazard. On my course in the example I talked about I would take a line from the pin and where my ball entered the water and drop back as far as I want on that line no closer to the hole. For me and many others I'd much rather move closer to the green and perhaps hit a SW or other wedge. Maybe even knocking it close and making only a bogey. I think a drop area that avoids the water entirely is not what's intended by providing a Drop area. Nor would that be fair. App, I think if your club has a Drop Area that avoids the water you might want to ask your Pro what's up with that.

Actually Apprenti is a Pro haha. While not exactly adhering to strict rules of golf I believe this should be the case for most amateurs to speed up the game. DZ shouldn't be for all stroke play events and such where strict rules of golf apply but for most regular golf days DZ should be there. I can't tell you how many times I just sit and watch people dump balls in the water while I wait on them.

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It's all about POP boys... You try and tell Mrs. haberkamp in the Thursday morning league that she has to keep hitting over the water on #15 until she gets over because that's the rules. After she scores a 22 on the hole (because she eventually pulled driver to knock it over the pond) now you have to tell her to utilize ESC so her handicap is correct. Which I'm sure everyone who putts their scores in utilizes equitable stroke control, right? Wait? You don't? Ha nobody's does.

There are a lot of rules in golf that needent apply to amateurs. I'm all for bifurcation. I have friends who have recently turned into "regular" golfers and are playing 15+ rounds for the first time. They keep score and will shoot 100-110 thinking that because they're counting every putt they're right. However, when I keep score they're either DQ'd or 125-130. I don't say a word and just hope they enjoy the game.

Too many rules, golf should be fun.

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To be clear about what I contribute to the forum,  I  assume that anyone asking a question on the Rules wants an answer in terms of the Rules, and that's what I give.

 

That's not making any comment about whether  golfers and courses should or shouldn't  â€œadjust' the rules for whatever reasons.  It's just so that you know what kind of answer you are getting.

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It's all about POP boys... You try and tell Mrs. haberkamp in the Thursday morning league that she has to keep hitting over the water on #15 until she gets over because that's the rules. After she scores a 22 on the hole (because she eventually pulled driver to knock it over the pond) now you have to tell her to utilize ESC so her handicap is correct. Which I'm sure everyone who putts their scores in utilizes equitable stroke control, right? Wait? You don't? Ha nobody's does.

There are a lot of rules in golf that needent apply to amateurs. I'm all for bifurcation. I have friends who have recently turned into "regular" golfers and are playing 15+ rounds for the first time. They keep score and will shoot 100-110 thinking that because they're counting every putt they're right. However, when I keep score they're either DQ'd or 125-130. I don't say a word and just hope they enjoy the game.

Too many rules, golf should be fun.

I agree with you 110% about the Mr. and Mrs. Havercamps of the world. I would say that less than 5% of the total golf population knows the game in detail as the average WRXer does. They could give 2 hoots less about the USGA the R&A or the PGA for that matter. I have always been in favor of bifurcation of the rules but it will never happen because the USGA is in cahoots with all the major club manufacturers. As they say in a court of law I cite the following--- The 2010 groove rule and the 2016 anchoring ban. I rest my case your honor

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

 G

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To be clear about what I contribute to the forum,  I  assume that anyone asking a question on the Rules wants an answer in terms of the Rules, and that's what I give.

 

That's not making any comment about whether  golfers and courses should or shouldn't  â€œadjust' the rules for whatever reasons.  It's just so that you know what kind of answer you are getting.

I would say you would be correct on your assumption. And absolutely yes keep your replies to the questions by posting the correct rule or decision as written in the book. You do an excellent job with your posts

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

 G

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I agree with you 110% about the Mr. and Mrs. Havercamps of the world. I would say that less than 5% of the total golf population knows the game in detail as the average WRXer does. They could give 2 hoots less about the USGA the R&A or the PGA for that matter. I have always been in favor of bifurcation of the rules but it will never happen because the USGA is in cahoots with all the major club manufacturers. As they say in a court of law I cite the following--- The 2010 groove rule and the 2016 anchoring ban. I rest my case your honor

Uh oh Stu, you called us "WRXers" hahaha

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Just to clarify - mowing an area in front of a hazard doesn't automatically make it into a drop zone - it is a mown area in front of a hazard! Therefore, the same rules and procedures apply when dropping under the options for water hazards within the rules. A mown area certainly makes the task a lot more straight forward for the golfer and can indeed speed up any unnecessary confusion, however it is not always commonplace. A lot indeed depends on the architecture of the course. 

Where a specific drop zone differs (and I hope I'm making this clear) is where it is not feasible or practicable to proceed under the hazard options within the rules - for example line of margin crossed and line of drop. The 17th at Sawgrass would be a classic example of this.

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Of course a mown strip sufficient to provide a reasonable stroke for anyone taking relief from the water hazard is not a dropping zone and in the situation described by the OP seems to me the obvious and right thing to do.  Dropping zones should, in my view, be a last resort in any circumstances and I agree that if, as it seems, it is  possible to create that strip, there is no justification for a DZ.  

 

The two main problems that DZs create are a) that a large number of shots is concentrated in one small area and the DZ quickly becomes one joined up divot hole; and  that they add to the ways in which the player can, in ignorance, breach the Rules.

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You can bet that if I hit it here

 

yellow.jpg

 

 

I am going to drop it here

 

drop.jpg

 

 

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And we wonder why golf is becoming less popular! :)

 

I hope that everyone reads that comment as the fun that was intended.  The answers that I've read have been most enlightening in regards to the rules of golf which is what this section imagines.  The simple solution is to mow the rough but I'm wondering what is preventing you from dropping on one of the unused tee boxes keeping the point of entry between you and the hole?

 

My course has two holes with drop zones and both fit according to the rules - If the pin is back right on number 13 a hazard behind the green is in play - the drop options beyond replaying the shot from the original point are impossible and you can't see the ball enter the hazard from the fairway anyway.  It's a lateral hazard so there is a drop spot beside another part of that hazard that moves you farther from the hole (it's a very nasty spot to that pin.)  The other hole is a similar circumstance - there would really be no where to drop other than in a trap without so there is a drop zone that keeps a portion of a huge hazard between you and the pin. 

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Lol - revkev has spotted the dilemma of most golfers. Primordial instinct with a healthy dose of machismo states that most men must play from the tips, causing the ball to fall short into the water - and the same character traits also prevent the same from subsequently dropping a ball anywhere near or on the ladies tee. :D

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Lol - revkev has spotted the dilemma of most golfers. Primordial instinct with a healthy dose of machismo states that most men must play from the tips, causing the ball to fall short into the water - and the same character traits also prevent the same from subsequently dropping a ball anywhere near or on the ladies tee. :D

I just know that if I'm taking a drop im looking for the shortest grass, levelist lie and best number possible. If it's on the forward tee, so be it. :)

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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And we wonder why golf is becoming less popular! :)

 

I hope that everyone reads that comment as the fun that was intended.  The answers that I've read have been most enlightening in regards to the rules of golf which is what this section imagines.  The simple solution is to mow the rough but I'm wondering what is preventing you from dropping on one of the unused tee boxes keeping the point of entry between you and the hole?

 

My course has two holes with drop zones and both fit according to the rules - If the pin is back right on number 13 a hazard behind the green is in play - the drop options beyond replaying the shot from the original point are impossible and you can't see the ball enter the hazard from the fairway anyway.  It's a lateral hazard so there is a drop spot beside another part of that hazard that moves you farther from the hole (it's a very nasty spot to that pin.)  The other hole is a similar circumstance - there would really be no where to drop other than in a trap without so there is a drop zone that keeps a portion of a huge hazard between you and the pin. 

 

If a tee is on the line from the hole through where the ball last crossed the margin, then you can certainly drop on it.  I would  look for a mown strip to allow a reasonable drop to permit full use of the options. (As an aside, using a tee available  for a drop from an unplayable lie can be a good move.) 

 

These are good illustrations of using DZs where otherwise the only feasible option would be stroke and distance.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It's all about POP boys... You try and tell Mrs. haberkamp in the Thursday morning league that she has to keep hitting over the water on #15 until she gets over because that's the rules. After she scores a 22 on the hole (because she eventually pulled driver to knock it over the pond) now you have to tell her to utilize ESC so her handicap is correct. Which I'm sure everyone who putts their scores in utilizes equitable stroke control, right? Wait? You don't? Ha nobody's does.

There are a lot of rules in golf that needent apply to amateurs. I'm all for bifurcation. I have friends who have recently turned into "regular" golfers and are playing 15+ rounds for the first time. They keep score and will shoot 100-110 thinking that because they're counting every putt they're right. However, when I keep score they're either DQ'd or 125-130. I don't say a word and just hope they enjoy the game.

Too many rules, golf should be fun.

Actually I do use the ESC, and so do most of the guys I golf with regularly, its what you are supposed to do, golf is a game of honor right.

Lefties are always in their Right Mind

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I would think that if the forward tee is in line where your ball crossed, you could drop in that area, and play from there. It's already closely mown, and should give yardage so that would speed up play since you wouldn't have to guess at the yardage

Lefties are always in their Right Mind

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I would think that if the forward tee is in line where your ball crossed, you could drop in that area, and play from there. 

Yes, as I said above.  You may drop anywhere behind the water hazard on the line from the hole through where the ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard,  as far back as you like.  If a tee is on the line, so much the better.

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  • 1 month later...

Uh oh Stu, you called us "WRXers" hahaha

OH CRAP senior moment!! forgive me

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

 G

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