MGS Club Fitter Review?

[PlaidJacket]

I'd like to suggest that MGS undertake a review of some of the major club fitting businesses/companies around the country. Not sure how this should be accomplished exactly. I think perhaps it should be done in "stealth-mode". By that I mean a MGS employee go through the full fitting process as any retail customer might do with these companies. Names that come to mind are - Club Champion, Cool Clubs, GolfTec, Golf Smith, etc. There may be others I'm not familiar which should be included also.

I believe the MGS employee doing this would need to have a deep understanding of what a full and proper fitting entails. In other words... what's correct/right and what's smoke & mirrors. If any. Are the employees at these companies really qualified and experienced enough to perform/analyze a proper fitting? Or, are they just fancy showrooms with a Trackman and lots of equipment on display.

There you have it. There is much more to be considered before such an undertaking but perhaps this will start the discussion.

[hckymeyer]

Just thinking of the cost and logistics, I'm pretty sure this ain't happening.  I do think it's a very cool idea, just not really feasible.

 

Not to mention most of those places have multiple fitters, so while somebody might be great, another employee might be just OK.

 

This is one of the few times where I actually do look at the Golf Digest list as a starting point.

 

This could be a great idea for a forum member driven thread though.  Call it fitter reviews and as we are all going in to various places to get fit we can post up reviews of the process and if we would recommend them to someone else.

[PlaidJacket]

You have a very valid point Hcky. I'd like for the guys that run this site and get all types of equipment free to give away and review by members to get into the act as well. Could MGS for instance send Barbajo to Cool Clubs for a fitting and then later post a review? How about sending GS-T or X to Club Champion and then post their results/review. That is if they are sufficiently knowledgeable of a proper fitting process. Maybe another angle would be for MGS to select a few guys (not me) like MBuddy for example that are most knowledgeable and send them and pay for the fitting and clubs. Perhaps even auction off the clubs for charity afterwards? Or the reviewer can pay and keep them? As far as the issue of getting a good fitter or a not so good fitter that can happen but needs to be considered and reviewed.

I don't know. Just seeing if there is interest and a way to pull it off. Seems like it would certainly be interesting. And... the reviews don't all have to happen simultaneously. Spread them out over several months then present a final conclusion of the process.

Thanks Hcky for posting.  

[Mr_Theoo]

I think it would be an interesting read for sure but not sure how feasible it is. What if you didn't get along with the fitter? That could end up as a bad review even if the fitter did do a good job.

[PlaidJacket]

How about lets think about how an unbiased review can be done. Not a review of the actual "fitter" but his knowledge of fitting perhaps and the company's method of fitting. Sure I might go and not make best friends with my fitter. But if I'm an astute customer I know what to look for and what to ask where and when; then I would know if they are doing a good job or blowing smoke or trying to cut corners, etc. and just sell some clubs. What /equipment/devices are used for the fitting. Do they have all the necessary product/brands? How was the initial interview when you arrived? And yes, was the fitter an ass or did he listen to you.

I'd be most interested in hearing how this can be done. Not how it can't be. Anyone can say can't. I'm looking for can. Can't be done keeps your game from improving. Can be done lowers your score. Which guy are you?

[Dhuck Whooker]

Great idea. Personally I am in search for a good fitter in the Metro Detroit area.

 

The previous posts are correct in that performing such analysis would be expensive, but it would be highly beneficial if forum members could post their experiences, especially positive ones, in a centralized location on this site.

[hckymeyer]

How about we start with some napkin math then?

 

Avg cost of a full bag fitting - $350

One night hotel stay - $125

Plane ticket & baggage/clubs - $450

Eating/taxi etc - $125

 

So let's round down and call it a grand for each fitting. You named 4 fitters but let's call it 10 fitters to get started.

 

So the answer to how this can be done starts with someone donating 10 grand to MGS.

[hckymeyer]

Great idea. Personally I am in search for a good fitter in the Metro Detroit area.

 

The previous posts are correct in that performing such analysis would be expensive, but it would be highly beneficial if forum members could post their experiences, especially positive ones, in a centralized location on this site.

Yup, that's the only way this happens. Make a thread and we get one of the mods to sticky it in the fitting category then we all go in and add to it as we go through regular fittings

[Ike]

Fairly good article on iron fitting here on MG at http://www.myolfspy.com/mygolfspy-labs-the-iron-fitting-study/  The article suggests some things to ask and look for if choosing a fitter, but it is lacking in the perspective of the fitter.  After many years in this endeavor you get to see many tire kickers.  Too many.  There is also Mr. BeeBack.  As soon as money is mentioned he gets as shy as a new bride.  A time waster. 

 

The charge for the fitting is refunded or applied to the total of any club building that arises from the fitting.  Biggest problem is most want to go on the cheap with components.  It is understood that the average weekender doesn't want a $300 shaft in his driver and 2-3 fairway clubs.  50 clams per on each of the irons and a new mortgage is in line.  It doesn't have to be that expensive.  You really do get what you pay for with a premium shaft and a quality head.  The USGA mandates what a head can do as far as COR.  A build that incorporates MOI principles along with a set of quality components can be a fine set of tools in the right hands.  A good fitter can't make a good golfer, but a bad fitter can make a good golfer worse.  A high priced fitting is a waste unless the fitter is capable of properly measuring the golfer and building a tool that matches the golfer's capability.  A good client that is capable of expressing his wants and treats the hitting session on the monitor with complete honesty is most likely to be on the road to game improvement.  It really is a two-way street - competent client and competent fitter makes for better tools.  

[PlaidJacket]

First... I should have titled this post: MGS Club Fitting Review. Not...Fitter review. I'd hoped that MGS might jump in an add some comments/suggestions but haven't seen any so far. I was also hoping for reviews of the BIG NAME fitting companies like Club Champion or Cool Clubs, etc, etc. I didn't want to see necessarily personal reviews of individual fitters. There are numerous highly qualified professional fitter in the country such as Roy Nix for example. In my opinion the top fitters in the country don't work for any of these so called, Big Box club fitting outfits.

 

Alright alright..... I guess we can't have MGS do it because they can afford it presumably. Sure seems like the MGS guys travel all over for various things/events, etc. Haven't they sent members to California to some kind of TaylorMade shop or something? I'm personally not qualified to post a review for my fitting experience which was August 2014. It was my first professional full fitting for irons. I was a little unprepared in some ways and also a little overloaded with information during and after the process. I took no pictures to document the process as well. Anyhooo...

[apprenti23]

How would you measure the results? A fitting that resulted in the fittee's goals being achieved sounds like a great fitting, but what if the goals were unobtainable and more like dreams?

 

The best thing about fittings that utilize Trackman is that there is no guessing involved; the data is the data. You want the least amount of variables (indoors is best) and then you can get a true apples to apples comparison of gains.

[hckymeyer]

Plaid - Most (all?) of those trips you are talking about are paid for by the OEM's.  They are press type events and they host members of the golf media to do those things.  I was one of the guys who go to go to TMaG for the SLDR launch event.  Maybe X or T can chime in at some point but I don't think there is a lot of out-of-pocket expense to MGS for the majority of those trips.

 

Also I think you would absolutely be qualified to review your fitting experience.  Just do it from your perspective as a first time iron fitting.  Give us your thoughts and what you were overwhelmed with and what your results were.  I can guarantee someone else on here is going in for their first time and hearing about your experience may help them to have a better first experience.

 

It seems like what you are asking for is a "Most Wanted" style review of big box fitting locations.  I definitely see the appeal and benefit that would have, I just don't think we will get it for many various reasons that have already been stated.

 

I think in the end what we really would benefit from is not just the big box fitting locations, what I want to know is what are the best places to get fit in my geographical location.  I don't care if it's a small one-off shop or a big box store.  For instance of the places you've mentioned only GolfTEC is in MN.  I've never been fit there because I know there are better options locally available.  I've reviewed a couple fitting's I've gotten done locally at Totally Driven, I know Barbajo has also reviewed another local place, 2ndSwing.  Based on reading that I feel confident going to either place to get fit.

 

I think that type of thread would be the most beneficial to the forum members.  As you stated before, let's talk about solutions to get this done, not beat our head against the wall and wait for MGS to pull it off.

[DownInOne]

I think there are plenty of name brand places that would be willing to throw a few people through the process for free. I also know there are plenty of places that don't charge if make a purchase so perhaps the reviewer needs to be in the market. 

[GolfSpy Dave]

I think that the real tough thing with this kind of article is the assumption that you will get the same fit at the same company, regardless of location or personnel. Hcky mentioned that even in the same place, the fitter skill may be different and as such two fits with two different people will come out, well, different.

 

I know from personal experience that this is the case, even at a golf HQ. The quality of my first private fitting at Callaway HQ was vastly better than the second that came a year later. I'd put that at 99% because the first fitter was more skilled at fitting.

 

That being said, I'd love to do something at a place like Club Champ or Cool Clubs where they have everything from everyone. I would be interesting (to me at least) to see what bag of sticks would be built in this situation where the gear companies are not involved at all. Problem for me is that there is not one of these shops near by, and thus it is tougher to get done.

[apprenti23]

You may come up with five different shaft selections from five different fitters. Is there anything wrong with that? Absolutely not. When there are 200 shafts to chose from there are obviously going to be a few that you fit well into.

[PlaidJacket]

If anything were ever attempted along these lines I'd also recommend looking at club fitters - builders that are more old school/small shop guys. For instance... Roy Nix over in Georgia. There a lot of guys out there like Roy that have been practicing their skill and trade long before any of the new flashy club fitting shops opened their doors.

[jaskanski]

Amen to Roy

The point is, there is a defined difference between cost and expectations when it comes to fitting for differing outlets and proshops.

For a start, the small shop guys simply don't have the buying power of the bigger stores and don't have enough storage space (let alone cash) to stock a large amount of shafts, heads, grips etc for fitting options. Even some of the bigger stores and dedicated fitting centres only stock certain lines and only allow the consumer to book "one brand" fitting at any one time.

Why? Well, simply because you're paying for their time and expertise too (which ain't free!!) and although it be a dream for any consumer to try any head and shaft combo (within reason) to try, there simply aren't enough rich golfers to fund this whim or time enough in any session. Maybe at TPS or The Kingdom perhaps, but at least you know what product you want and why you're there.

That is why a number of centres now ask for the consumer to opt for a product first - "then we'll fit you to it". A bit of a cop out perhaps I hear you say, but certainly from a business perspective a wise decision - it virtually eliminates a session where the consumer tries everything, buys nothing and wastes the fitters time and money.

So how do I know which product to choose? Well, that's what demo days and (to a lesser extent) course pros are for - in other words a place to try out clubs with no obligation or cost to see if you like to look and feel of a particular model. 

So if anyone asks me "can you recommend me a club and set up?" then yes, I can give a brief overview and point you into the direction of something, but anything else and it's going to cost you. And I can get you just about anything you want, but you first have to decide on what that is and how much you want to pay in getting it. 

So from a consumer experience (in my experience lol) that could be anything from "excellent service" to "not much help" depending on your perspective and expectations. Which makes a review of any sort subjective at best.

[david632]

I just did a club fitting at Club Champion (Austin, TX), I was playing on doing a review for it.  Just gotta find the time!

[driveandputtmachine]

How about we start with some napkin math then?

 

Avg cost of a full bag fitting - $350

One night hotel stay - $125

Plane ticket & baggage/clubs - $450

Eating/taxi etc - $125

 

So let's round down and call it a grand for each fitting. You named 4 fitters but let's call it 10 fitters to get started.

 

So the answer to how this can be done starts with someone donating 10 grand to MGS.

 

OR......Find members in good standing that know a good bit about fitting or have been fitted and have them go to their local place.   You save on paying Hotels/Flights/eating.  I would be willing to bet that as long as the travel time in a car is doable and not a couple hundred miles you would have volunteers to do this.

 

MGS would have to come up with a lot less in outlay, to test fitters.

 

I went through the Golfsmith fitting school and then applied that with everything I learned from Tom Wishon and his posts and info from a few others I know to be good fitters and "I fit myself",  Not a true blue blueprinted and test every club known to man, but I did do quite a bit more than some fitters as well.

 

Look at my set for instance.....My PW, GW, SW, and LW are all well over standard, I believe they are 36.5 inches long.  (I can measure to be sure) if you would like.  Then I go up 1/4" per club (Roughly, none are more than 1/4" some are less) to my set's 4 iron.  I am playing Recoil graphite shafts(the 115 version) with oversized grips.  MY irons are all quite a bit upright, some as much as 5*.  I tweaked all my lofts for gap spacing as well.  Since switching almost two years ago I am hitting right at 70% GIR.  I have beaten par in the last two years 20+ times with three rounds in the 60's. My handicap has dropped as low as a +2.4 last summer, this summer my putting has been down(went and had my eyes checked and that was the biggest part of it), but I have gotten down to a +.6 or so now. I have not had a round in the 80's since the full switch either.

 

Before I was playing Project X 6.5 shafts that are in the 130 gram range.  My Clubs were all standard L/L/L. I was hitting 45% or so of my GIR back then.   When my clubs were standard I was never any lower than a 2.6,  and had quite a few rounds in the low 80's, so it obviously made quite a bit of difference.  

 

I am a big believer in being fitted, but I just don't think there are many out there that would spend the time I did on me.  What fitter in their right mind is going to suggest wedges that long, that upright, and only 1/4" increments between?  Not many, if there are any.  Having been through a few fittings (not the BS ones at a Big Box Store) outside with good fitters no one spent that much time on me, with one exception.  Dana Upshaw in Warner Robbins, GA did back in the early 2000's and my set was all over the place, but then I had kids, seriously changed my swing and those clubs no longer worked for me.  

[hckymeyer]

OR......Find members in good standing that know a good bit about fitting or have been fitted and have them go to their local place.   You save on paying Hotels/Flights/eating.  I would be willing to bet that as long as the travel time in a car is doable and not a couple hundred miles you would have volunteers to do this.

 

MGS would have to come up with a lot less in outlay, to test fitters.

 

I went through the Golfsmith fitting school and then applied that with everything I learned from Tom Wishon and his posts and info from a few others I know to be good fitters and "I fit myself",  Not a true blue blueprinted and test every club known to man, but I did do quite a bit more than some fitters as well.

 

Look at my set for instance.....My PW, GW, SW, and LW are all well over standard, I believe they are 36.5 inches long.  (I can measure to be sure) if you would like.  Then I go up 1/4" per club (Roughly, none are more than 1/4" some are less) to my set's 4 iron.  I am playing Recoil graphite shafts(the 115 version) with oversized grips.  MY irons are all quite a bit upright, some as much as 5*.  I tweaked all my lofts for gap spacing as well.  Since switching almost two years ago I am hitting right at 70% GIR.  I have beaten par in the last two years 20+ times with three rounds in the 60's. My handicap has dropped as low as a +2.4 last summer, this summer my putting has been down(went and had my eyes checked and that was the biggest part of it), but I have gotten down to a +.6 or so now. I have not had a round in the 80's since the full switch either.

 

Before I was playing Project X 6.5 shafts that are in the 130 gram range.  My Clubs were all standard L/L/L. I was hitting 45% or so of my GIR back then.   When my clubs were standard I was never any lower than a 2.6,  and had quite a few rounds in the low 80's, so it obviously made quite a bit of difference.  

 

I am a big believer in being fitted, but I just don't think there are many out there that would spend the time I did on me.  What fitter in their right mind is going to suggest wedges that long, that upright, and only 1/4" increments between?  Not many, if there are any.  Having been through a few fittings (not the BS ones at a Big Box Store) outside with good fitters no one spent that much time on me, with one exception.  Dana Upshaw in Warner Robbins, GA did back in the early 2000's and my set was all over the place, but then I had kids, seriously changed my swing and those clubs no longer worked for me.  

If you read through the thread my original suggestion was that this would be a member driven process.  My argument was that it wasn't feasible for this process to be driven and paid for by MGS.  As for weird bag setups I'm with you.  I play 4 hybrids, 4 irons and 4 wedges.  I've been fit enough times to know my specs and can make educated guesses as to what will work and what won't.  Then I still go in to one of my local fitters every other year or so to make sure nothing has changed and see if my equipment needs any tweaks.

 

So big believer in fittings, just don't think it's feasible for a nationwide review of fitters done and paid for by MGS.