My Clubfitting today, or should I say Club test

[jaxbeachpackerfan]

Had a club fitting today at GolfTec, which was included as part of the lesson/video practice package I purchased.  Very useful, got what I wanted out of it.

 

But, even though I have been very, very pleased with the lesson program and my pro, and results, huge improvements, I don't think club fitting is my pro's strong point.  Got the info I needed, but from what I understand the real process to be, somewhat lacking.  No real analysis or comparison of spin rates, launch angles, smash factors, etc.  Just looking at distance and dispersion patterns and the flight trajectory shown on the video screen.  Did use the Mizuno Club Optimizer, at least.

 

Three important takeaways.  #1, this was a bit of an ego fitting/test.  I've been drooling over the Hogan's.  But, I don't have the handicap for forged irons.  But, my swing, for all its faults, doesn't really need GI.  Hit high, usually center of club face, but where the club face is going has been the issue.  Also, my 43 and 48 degree Scors have absolutely been the best clubs in my bag for the last few months.

 

Result,  I hit Mizuno MP 15s and 25s, Callaway Apex CF 16s and Ping i's.  Didn't like the look or setup of the Ping i's at all, and couldn't put a good swing on them.  But with each of the others, I probably had my best ball striking session ever!  Range, course, lesson, anything, today was best.   Hit them great, long, good ball flight.  

 

MP15s are the current leaders in the clubhouse, primarily because of feel and look.  Also had the tightest dispersion patter.  But, boy, those Apex irons really fly--pro told me I'd see a full club difference and I did, plus more.  I'm going to give some serious consideration to these.  Being able to hit a 7 iron 170+, after a lifetime of 7 iron = 150 yds, at age 62.  Ego is drooling big time.  That's with same loft, same length as the others.    No goosing of anything there.  Mizuno 15s were 160 +, so swing improvements are accounting for 10 yds of that difference.

 

#2.  My current irons are between 1.50 and 2 degrees upright over standard.  My pro was able to identify that with my current clubs, my good swings were still going a bit left, and that probably because they were fit to my previous chronic over the top swing.  Now, coming in more on plane, the excessive upright club results in a closing of the club face and left orientation.  Hitting standard lies, I was pushing slightly right in a very tight dispersion pattern, something that we figured was attributable to compensation and that I can address in future lessons, but not today.

 

#3.  It looks like I'm still a soft stiff shaft guy, just like I was when fitted 6 years ago and 10 years ago.  That hasn't changed.  Hit both the MP 15s and Callaway Apex CFs with the TT XP 115 and had really good results.  

 

All this being said, can I have three new sets of irons?  Hogans, Callway Apex and MP 15s!  How does one choose??

 

Next question--do I do another fitting with someone who is a real fitter?  My specs are pretty consistent over time, other than the lie thing, which is logically addressed I think.  I'm thinking no, I've got enough info.  

[Kanoito]

You should check the lofts again. Apex lofts are stronger than something more traditional, say AP2 or MP15

[apprenti23]

Above is incorrect- All three iron heads including AP2 and MP15 have lofts that are "jacked" in comparison to traditional. They're all prob 27-29* 6 iron and 45-46* PW. The reason the Apex CF16 heads are longer due to the Cup Face. The only way you'd know if the three heads were a true apples to apples comparison would be if the fitter measured all three heads and bent them to the same loft/lie.

 

Anyway, Lofts of the heads are immaterial as long as your spin, height, and landing angles are all still optimal. The low CG heads HAVE to have less loft or you will LOSE distance because you'll hit them too high. During a proper fitting they will determine what lofts you need for all of your clubs for proper yardage gapping- could be stronger /weaker than the OEM "standard."

 

Most teaching professionals will admit that they dislike club fitting. First reason is that they don't have time for it. Remember, they make their money teaching. Another reason is because they're limited when it comes to demos, shafts, and whatever else is in the cart or their demo matrix. Club fitting is good for the guys who are golf equipment geeks, and teaching is for the golf swing geeks. Where the club fitters get off on new equipment the teachers get off on new methods or swing information.

 

Just like health care, it doesn't hurt to get a second opinion. I would bring the results of your GT fit to the second fitting as well. Good luck!

[Kanoito]

Above is incorrect- All three iron heads including AP2 and MP15 have lofts that are "jacked" in comparison to traditional. They're all prob 27-29* 6 iron and 45-46* PW. The reason the Apex CF16 heads are longer due to the Cup Face. The only way you'd know if the three heads were a true apples to apples comparison would be if the fitter measured all three heads and bent them to the same loft/lie.

 

I'm sorry... based on what???

 

AP2 go from 24* 4 iron through 34* 7 iron up to 46* PW

The same applies for MP15

 

Apex CF16 starts from 21* 4 iron through 31* 7 iron up to 45* PW

 

You can argue whether or not the AP2 and MP15 have traditional lofts (to me, compared to GI and SGI irons they are traditional), but the CF16 clearly have jacked up lofts compared to them.

 

Of course, the CF also plays an important part on the gained distance.

[apprenti23]

1. I'm sorry... based on what???

 

2. You can argue whether or not the AP2 and MP15 have traditional lofts

 

3. Of course, the CF also plays an important part on the gained distance.

1. I just told you:

 

Anyway, Lofts of the heads are immaterial as long as your spin, height, and landing angles are all still optimal. The low CG heads HAVE to have less loft or you will LOSE distance because you'll hit them too high. During a proper fitting they will determine what lofts you need for all of your clubs for proper yardage gapping- could be stronger /weaker than the OEM "standard.

2. They're either traditional or not- those two irons would qualify as NOT

 

3. I also mentioned the Cup Face.

[Kanoito]

Dude, you can argue all you want about how spin, height, material, landing angle, etc. should be optimal. I'm not arguing that.

 

I'm just pointing out that the MP15 and the CF16 do not have the same lofts (as the OP believed to be). Is one better than the other? Not at all, just thought he should base the decision on correct facts.

 

The CF16 are 3* stronger than the MP15 and AP2, what is incorrect about that?

[PlaidJacket]

I think I'd go seek out a full time professional fitter. As always I'm far from being any sort of expert or sage of club fitting. But one thing that stood out to me is this.... no mention of your bend profile in the shaft. I'm pretty sure that's very important to proper fitting. That's one thing my fitter worked on and observed with me. Just because you swing at a certain speed doesn't mean jack really as far as what shaft is correct for you. Where is your release? Early? Mid? Later? Very late? But don't take my word for it. I suggest you spend some time viewing Wishon's videos and reading his thoughts on fitting and shafts, etc. He actually knows a thing or 100 about the subject I'm told. I'd bet Apprenti can add to this.

And by the way... just because it's Wishon doesn't mean it only applies to his clubs, shafts, fitting, etc.

[PlaidJacket]

I think I'd go seek out a full time professional fitter. As always I'm far from being any sort of expert or sage of club fitting. But one thing that stood out to me is this.... no mention of your bend profile in the shaft. I'm pretty sure that's very important to proper fitting. That's one thing my fitter worked on and observed with me. Just because you swing at a certain speed doesn't mean jack really as far as what shaft is correct for you. Where is your release? Early? Mid? Later? Very late? But don't take my word for it. I suggest you spend some time viewing Wishon's videos and reading his thoughts on fitting and shafts, etc. He actually knows a thing or 100 about the subject I'm told. I'd bet Apprenti can add to this.

And by the way... just because it's Wishon doesn't mean it only applies to his clubs, shafts, fitting, etc.

[McaseyM]

Gentlemen, let's not turn this into a technical argument, where he's asking for help.

You can break down as many details as you like and get super analytical about every angle, but

For me, go with what feels best and most consistent. Do you get the ball flight that you like? Consistent distances and yardage gaps? I hear you when you say how awesome it is to have your 7-iron 170, but what does that do to the top of your bag with your wedges?

As plaid jacket recommended, go for a second opinion with someone that fits for their job and bring your first fitting information. However let the 2nd fitter do their evaluation fresh and unbiased ( tell them you had a fitting but don't share your results) and save some time and to compare to your first fitting

[jaxbeachpackerfan]

Ok, re the lofts.  He had me hitting Mizuno 6 irons and the Callaway 7 iron to make the comparison, because of CF and lofts.  The Mizuno 6 was 30 degrees, the Callaway 7 was 31 degrees.  My mean carry/total for the Mizuno 6 iron was 158.8/169.4 and  167.6/178.2 for the Callaway 7.  So, with a one degree weaker loft, the Callaway 7 was a good club longer.  I also just noticed that the shafts were different, the TT XP 115 in the Mizuno and the TT XP 95 in the Callaway (I think I recall him saying he didn't have a Callawy XP 115 in his cart).

[jaxbeachpackerfan]

Plaid and McaseyM, agree, from all that I've read on club fitting, that wasn't much of one (hence the rephrase as "clubtest").  I do have a certificate for $100 off of a club fitting at the Tour Academy that I get as part of my membership, so I'm going to go in there.  Ironically, their current clubfitter, who I've heard really good things about, is the first pro I had at GolfTec a couple of years ago!

[Kenny B]

JMO as I don't know that much about club fitting, but if you are hitting the CF 10 yards longer with the same loft and I am assuming the same trajectory and dispersion, why wouldn't you go with Callaway?  If the 95 fits your swing better than the 110, you need to know that.

 

In either case you will have to match up whatever you decide with your SCORs.  Find the club in each set that gives you the correct gap with your 43.  You may only need a partial set, unless you ditch the SCORs.  That's my battle right now; finding the right 8i/shaft configuration to go with my 42 SCOR.

[jaxbeachpackerfan]

JMO as I don't know that much about club fitting, but if you are hitting the CF 10 yards longer with the same loft and I am assuming the same trajectory and dispersion, why wouldn't you go with Callaway?  If the 95 fits your swing better than the 110, you need to know that.

 

In either case you will have to match up whatever you decide with your SCORs.  Find the club in each set that gives you the correct gap with your 43.  You may only need a partial set, unless you ditch the SCORs.  That's my battle right now; finding the right 8i/shaft configuration to go with my 42 SCOR.

 

I know, and I also noticed that my dispersion patter was a whole lot tighter with the Callaway, both depth and width.  Only 8.5/6.4 spread on Distance and 20.1 on direction, versus 17/16 on Mizuno and 41 on direction.  Starting to think a little more rationally today.  

[BIG STU]

Ok, re the lofts.  He had me hitting Mizuno 6 irons and the Callaway 7 iron to make the comparison, because of CF and lofts.  The Mizuno 6 was 30 degrees, the Callaway 7 was 31 degrees.  My mean carry/total for the Mizuno 6 iron was 158.8/169.4 and  167.6/178.2 for the Callaway 7.  So, with a one degree weaker loft, the Callaway 7 was a good club longer.  I also just noticed that the shafts were different, the TT XP 115 in the Mizuno and the TT XP 95 in the Callaway (I think I recall him saying he didn't have a Callawy XP 115 in his cart).

That XP-95 is one heck of a shaft especially for us older guys and the 115 ain't bad either. When tipped properly for one's swing they have a lot of what I call bottom end kick. If I was not totally in love with the TT S300s in my irons now I would go with either the 115 or 95. I have a 115 in a Infiniti head now that I am experimenting with getting the numbers close to my high launches

[revkev]

Plaid and McaseyM, agree, from all that I've read on club fitting, that wasn't much of one (hence the rephrase as "clubtest").  I do have a certificate for $100 off of a club fitting at the Tour Academy that I get as part of my membership, so I'm going to go in there.  Ironically, their current clubfitter, who I've heard really good things about, is the first pro I had at GolfTec a couple of years ago!

Two things:

 

1. I have a guy that I play with and the way he hits those Apex's is silly, perfect trajectory every time. He's still adjusting to the increased distance but the ball flight is beautiful.

 

2. Far more important I'd go for the second opinion because it's always helpful to do it twice particularly when there is a suggested change in your specs. No doubt the move from 2 up to standard makes sense but it also makes sense to double check. Also, you and I have been been fit at the Tour Performance center and we know that there really is no better place to go. They are the experts par excellence. Just do it!

 

Can't wait to get out and play with you again. I'm coming your way in late March if it doesn't work out over here before that.

[~^~]

Jax, I'm going through similar circumstances. The Mizuno rep came to Golftec about 3 years ago. All he does is fittings. I spent an hour getting fitted. The Mizuno Shaft Optimizer rated me at 80 6 3 3 6. The 80 is 6i club speed, and the last 6 is release point of my swing. The MSO recommended TT XP95, Project X Pxi, or KBS Tour. I hit all 3 shafts on 2 or 3 Mizuno heads. The rep looked at spin rates, smash factor, trajectory and other factors on the simulator, and recommended which heads would suit my swing. I decided to order the JPX825 straight from the factory, custom-made for my lie (1* up), grip and swing. Got a free wedge thrown in due to their sale. The clubs arrived thru Golftec from Mizuno with a factory order sheet with my specs, clubs and serial number. I played those clubs about a year, but ultimately decided I didn't like the harsh feel of the 825, which I hadn't noticed during my fitting.

 

Currently I'm back at Golftec. I get a fitting at the end of the month. However, I don't see buying new clubs. I like my current JPX825 Forged, so at most I will get them bent to fit my new swing. As I've posted elsewhere, still love the TT XP series of shafts. I've played the XP95, 105 and 115, all in S300 stiffness.

 

In summary, I never had the opportunity to be fit in a performance center, but I think I was fitted properly by a professional fitter for the right club and shaft for my 12hc swing. It was my own fault for not noting the harshness of his recommended clubhead, but as I've experienced more irons, I've come to appreciate forged. My current irons are very forgiving. (I bought them with standard lie off the rack, since my correction is only 1*.)

[jaxbeachpackerfan]

As  I just posted in another thread, I pulled the trigger on a 4/PW set of the Callaway CF 16s with the XP 95 S3000s off EBay at a really good price.  Hope they work out!  I'll let y'all know.