Hurry Up

[PlaidJacket]

I received an email today from the USGA. One article that caught my attention concerned pace of play. In particular was talk of a new "tool" the USGA might employ or offer to golf courses. They call it a "Flagstick Monitoring Tool". Basically what it does is keep track of when a pin is pulled and then replaced - time... and then pulled again by the next group or player on the course. At this point it's not identifying the player or group. But you know it will eventually somehow.

 

Sure we've all encountered slow play and been guilty of it ourselves at times. Who hasn't? But here's the deal. I thought golf was supposed to relaxing (yeah right) and enjoyed. However, it seems to me that the emphasis has been in recent years to rush the game. Hurry up! Especially for a daily fee course it's how many rounds can we cram in in a day $$$$.

 

I play at a private club and even there we have issues. But... I didn't join a private club to haul a$$ around the course. So, now with the "right" technology clubs and golf courses can start monitoring pace of play - perhaps right down to a slow playing group and impose a fine or suspension for repeat offenders. See where this is leading? Anyway, below is a graphic I found the demonstrates how this technology might work. What do you think?

 

 

 

 

[BIG STU]

Really it is not anything new. A few years back my home course had GPS monitors on the carts to get the distances and keep score. But what few folks knew was that they could also track the carts where they were at on the course and it was so accurate that they knew when you rode in restricted areas. the GPS units also had a monotoring system that told you of your target time. After a while folks both local and tourists figgured it out and raised a stink about it especially the tourist golfers and they lost rounds from the motel packages over the whole deal. Eventually they took them out citing "they were cost prohibitive" Big Brother on the golf course. Next I will expect the USGA to have drones over courses to see if you have conforming grooves, not using an anchored putter or playing a stipulated handicap round with someone else. Not taking a proper drop BOOM! the drone shoots you then and there. You know some folks take the spirit and intregrity of the game too seriously!

[furu]

Here in Norway we have to take a 12 hour course to be allowed to play golf - "The road to golf" I've had new golfers in classroom and on the course. 

 

I teach them that we're only playing golf to get done quickly. When you walk onto the first tee, all you think about is getting to 18 as soon as possible. It's of course a joke, but everyone who's played golf knows it's actually true for some people.

 

Monitoring flag sticks? Is this something they need to spend money on? If you have slow play it's because golf is hard and courses are too long and difficult. Spend money on rebuilding courses or giving free pro lessons.

 

CaddieON - Finnish shot tracking system, like Game Golf - has a service that allows you to follow the flow of players around the course. The tags have GPS chips. This allows you to identify where groups are waiting. With a system like that, you could analyze the numbers and maybe move a tee etc.

[Kenny B]

I have this urge to take the flagstick out when I get to the green; put it back in; take it out; put it in; take it out; put it in; take it out; put it in, for every person's putt... on every hole.

[PlaidJacket]

I have this urge to take the flagstick out when I get to the green; put it back in; take it out; put it in; take it out; put it in; take it out; put it in, for every person's putt... on every hole.

Why Kenny.... that would throw off the USGAs intended consequences. You trouble maker. 

[hckymeyer]

I'm definitely on the other side of this one.  

 

Picture this scenario.  It's a beautiful Sat morning and you are out for a round of golf with some buddies.  After about the 4th hole the pace just starts to crawl.  Easily on pace for a 5hr round.  Sure we don't want to have to hurry, but sitting behind some slow pokes who are holding up the entire course is more frustrating than trying to flush a 1 iron.

 

Now with this new technology the course can see which group is holding everything up.  Send out a marshal to that group and maybe forecaddy for them for a few holes and get them back on pace.

 

How is that a bad thing?

 

Maybe a course starts to learn that every time they put in a particular pin placement that hole slows down pace of play.  Now they save that pin placement for league events rather than Sat & Sun.

 

I'm not seeing the downside to courses knowing how long it's taking to play 18 holes and where the slow spots are on the course.

[hckymeyer]

Really it is not anything new. A few years back my home course had GPS monitors on the carts to get the distances and keep score. But what few folks knew was that they could also track the carts where they were at on the course and it was so accurate that they knew when you rode in restricted areas. the GPS units also had a monotoring system that told you of your target time. After a while folks both local and tourists figgured it out and raised a stink about it especially the tourist golfers and they lost rounds from the motel packages over the whole deal. Eventually they took them out citing "they were cost prohibitive" Big Brother on the golf course. Next I will expect the USGA to have drones over courses to see if you have conforming grooves, not using an anchored putter or playing a stipulated handicap round with someone else. Not taking a proper drop BOOM! the drone shoots you then and there. You know some folks take the spirit and intregrity of the game too seriously!

We have a local course that uses this type of GPS on the their carts.  Sure it's annoying when you go into a restricted area and the cart cuts to 7mph instead of 13mph.  Keep going and it cuts out entirely.  You have to push a button on the screen to re-enable it and drive out of the restricted area.  On the flip side those area's are there for a reason, you shouldn't have the cart there in the first place.

 

Also this type of GPS allows you to see the where other carts are on your hole.  No more guessing if the group ahead is far enough away for you to hit.  It's actually really nice, especially on blind shots or waiting on a par 5.

 

Golfers around here don't seem to have a problem with it because that is one of the busier courses in the area.  I guess I always looked at the upside rather than the downside.

[PlaidJacket]

Here's what we do. We use this thing called a cell phone and alert the pro shop/Marshall to drive out to the slow group and ask them to speed up or let us through. We've also asked the "shop" to add a few extra minutes between tee times but they won't - haven't. In my opinion I believe they try to cram too many groups on the course. There have been many times our starter is telling us to "hit it" while there is a group in the fairway and another still on the green at the first hole. They just cram too many tee times on the course during peak times. Doesn't do anyone any good. And this is a private course! I also don't think 5 should be playing during peak times. If a single or 2-some show up during peak times they should be paired with others to make a 4-some. During off-peak times play as you want.

[Kenny B]

I'm definitely on the other side of this one.  

 

Picture this scenario.  It's a beautiful Sat morning and you are out for a round of golf with some buddies.  After about the 4th hole the pace just starts to crawl.  Easily on pace for a 5hr round.  Sure we don't want to have to hurry, but sitting behind some slow pokes who are holding up the entire course is more frustrating than trying to flush a 1 iron.

 

Now with this new technology the course can see which group is holding everything up.  Send out a marshal to that group and maybe forecaddy for them for a few holes and get them back on pace.

 

How is that a bad thing?

 

Maybe a course starts to learn that every time they put in a particular pin placement that hole slows down pace of play.  Now they save that pin placement for league events rather than Sat & Sun.

 

I'm not seeing the downside to courses knowing how long it's taking to play 18 holes and where the slow spots are on the course.

I'm all for moving slow groups on, but I am absolutely sure that every golf course knows exactly which pins slow down play and which holes are problems for most recreational golfers without a flagstick monitoring system.  If they put pins in those locations on a crowded weekend, the courses are causing the problem.

 

I like the GPS monitoring on carts because you can see where the other carts are on the same hole, but fewer and fewer courses are using it because "everyone" has GPS or lasers and the cart GPS systems are expensive and problematic.  

 

I can see why the USGA is choosing to go this way, but I can also see that the system will have flaws and will eventually not be used.  At peak times most resort type courses have marshals on the course anyway, and if they do the job they are supposed to, there wouldn't be an issue. 

[hckymeyer]

I just see it as a way for a course to gather more information about pace of play and to be able to pin point slow play.

 

How is this a negative?

[wbealsd]

Like most technology, there's good and bad ways to implement it.  Some course managers are lousy, and forget that they're there to provide an enjoyable experience for the majority of their customers.

 

On the other hand, if used properly, they can improve play for everyone by noticing problems and addressing them.  Sometimes, there ARE particular players that are inconsiderate of others and hurt the overall business.  If they're identified, those issues can be dealt with.

 

It's all in how they manage "people problems."  There's a few courses I've simply stopped playing because the management knows WHO their "problem players" are, but simply don't do anything to address them.

 

Technology can't fix bad management, and will usually just make it worse.

[Dhuck Whooker]

It won't be free, electronic components, installation, commissioning, training, maintenance, somebody got to pay for this.

 

Assembly line managers always want this kind of stuff, "show me where the bottlenecks are", more software, fancy displays, data logging statistics, etc. They want to be able to analyze from their cell phone while they sit on their throne, wherever that is.

 

Ok, you want it? We can do that, just get out your checkbook.

 

When it is easy, and free, to see where the bottlenecks are, actually go to your line, stand back and look, find the big empty space, and go upstream until you find parts, that is where the problem is.

 

That product looks like thing a guy who works in manufacturing devised, the term cycle time, basically the amount of time needed to complete a process on the assembled part, is commonly used in manufacturing.

 

But Kenny B devilishly exposed a major flaw in the algorithm, the flagstick, sometimes, it gets pulls out for a long putt, put back in for a short chip, pulled out again and left out. Sometimes we tend putts, it is never as simple as pull it out once, put in back in once.

[silver & black]

The problem I see on my home course regarding slow play is "greed". They don't care how many groups are out or when they go. They don't care about letting groups of 5 and six play. Just get as many people on the course in a day as possible. They run specials that brings out the drunken good old boys that insist on playing from the back tees because they "paid their money" and they will play from what ever tees they want.

 

There are three par 3's in a row on this course. It creates a giant bottleneck. They insist on placing the cups on parts of the greens that, if you miss, you will be assured of 4-5 putting. It's ridiculous. I've waited 15 minutes to hit to a green because no one in the group ahead could sink a putt. 

 

Yes, some people are just slow, but, I think most of the problems with slow play is the way groups are let out and the way the courses are set up. A fair and efficient marshal would go a long way to keeping pace of play reasonable. Unfortunately, my experience with most marshals has not been good...lol.

[BIG STU]

We have a local course that uses this type of GPS on the their carts.  Sure it's annoying when you go into a restricted area and the cart cuts to 7mph instead of 13mph.  Keep going and it cuts out entirely.  You have to push a button on the screen to re-enable it and drive out of the restricted area.  On the flip side those area's are there for a reason, you shouldn't have the cart there in the first place.

 

Also this type of GPS allows you to see the where other carts are on your hole.  No more guessing if the group ahead is far enough away for you to hit.  It's actually really nice, especially on blind shots or waiting on a par 5.

 

Golfers around here don't seem to have a problem with it because that is one of the busier courses in the area.  I guess I always looked at the upside rather than the downside.

Ours were not that fancy. An yes I 100% agree that areas are restricted for a reason. They did not bother me in the least after i figgured out how to use them. On our course you had to add 10% to get the correct yardage and the course is not that hilly either

[BIG STU]

Like most technology, there's good and bad ways to implement it.  Some course managers are lousy, and forget that they're there to provide an enjoyable experience for the majority of their customers.

 

On the other hand, if used properly, they can improve play for everyone by noticing problems and addressing them.  Sometimes, there ARE particular players that are inconsiderate of others and hurt the overall business.  If they're identified, those issues can be dealt with.

 

It's all in how they manage "people problems."  There's a few courses I've simply stopped playing because the management knows WHO their "problem players" are, but simply don't do anything to address them.

 

Technology can't fix bad management, and will usually just make it worse.

You nailed it dead in the screws flush on that post. And yes there are courses here I will not play because of bad management. Funny thing is down here those courses do not show profit long when the word gets out and they either get sold or closed for good or another golf management group takes over

[jaxbeachpackerfan]

The problem I see on my home course regarding slow play is "greed". They don't care how many groups are out or when they go. They don't care about letting groups of 5 and six play. Just get as many people on the course in a day as possible. They run specials that brings out the drunken good old boys that insist on playing from the back tees because they "paid their money" and they will play from what ever tees they want.

 

There are three par 3's in a row on this course. It creates a giant bottleneck. They insist on placing the cups on parts of the greens that, if you miss, you will be assured of 4-5 putting. It's ridiculous. I've waited 15 minutes to hit to a green because no one in the group ahead could sink a putt. 

 

Yes, some people are just slow, but, I think most of the problems with slow play is the way groups are let out and the way the courses are set up. A fair and efficient marshal would go a long way to keeping pace of play reasonable. Unfortunately, my experience with most marshals has not been good...lol.

Wondering why you make that your home course, if they run it like that.  Aren't there a number of good tracks in your area??

[Kenny B]

jax, there are several courses in my area that are nicer than the one I play, and the one I play is an upgrade from where I was.  But they are also more $$$.  It's a matter of what you can afford.  For years I put up with same issues s&b listed because it was cheaper to play there.  The problem is that because it is cheaper, the dregs of golf come there for a drunkfest.  

 

Also because it's cheaper, the course is not as good and the owner crams as many people on the course as possible.  One day we had a tournament; not a big one, just most of the local guys that play there routinely.  There were one or two holes that did not have teams on them.  The owner had a group show up that wanted to play (not in the tournament) after we started.  He was chasing the buck and told them to head out to #4.  So we were playing a scramble and everyone had to wait behind a slow foursome that wasn't even in the tournament.

[silver & black]

I play there because it is literally a 1 minute drive up the road from work... and because I pay $330.00 a year membership. It costs $12.00 to play a round on weekends with a cart. I do play some nicer/better courses, but I don't have the income to play those all year.

[dru_]

"Get the hell off my yard!" 

 

Sorry, but most of the arguments against this boil down to one of three arguments:

 

1. It ain't broke, don't fix it

2. We paid for the round, we'll do as we want.

3. Big Brother.

 

First, golf *is* broken, and sadly, if we want our choice of courses and prices not to skyrocket even further, we do need to fix some things.

 

Second, you paid to play a game yes. You did not pay for everyone else rounds, so bluntly spoken show some courtesy. 

Third, and seriously folks. The Big Brother don't monitor me crap either has to be applied universally or not at all. If you don't want to be monitored, then don't advocate anyone else, EVER, to be monitored. Just don't do it.

 

 

The pace of play issues are awful, and I'm going to be nasty right now, because I hear it complained about every single round. The people complaining the loudest? the very ones that are causing the problems. They ****** for being backed up. Shank one in the one woods. Spend 15 minutes hunting for that missing Pro-V1.

 

Unfortunately, golf etiquette is part of the problem. Time honored traditions that slow the game down factor in the typical genital size comparisons and egos that are sized in inverse proportions to said genitalia, and well, yeah, if I was running a course and I couldn't directly address that crap, I'd certainly be looking at technologies that helped flag and identify the problem children (regardless of age)
 

[NiftyNiblick]

If you're in a hurry, try a pool room or bowling alley. You shouldn't have anywhere to go when you're playing golf.

 

One thing the architects can do is stop trying to build US Open venues.  Make the courses shorter, easier, and faster to play. 

 

I don't know what the rush is.  Golf is like baseball, not football. It's not a timed game.  You're done when you're done.

[dru_]

 

I don't know what the rush is.  Golf is like baseball, not football. It's not a timed game.  You're done when you're done.

 

For me it is not about having somewhere to be. It's sitting in a cart, or worse, standing around a bag waiting 8-10 minutes at a time to take a shot. Then walking to the next shot only to wait wait wait. Suddenly, I do have other things I *could/should* be doing. 

 

My home course is not a 7k yard course. It's mid 5k played from the tips. It is a 7.2 mile walk to do the full loop. Without 'rushing' a foursome can easily play it in 3:30 minutes, and many of us frequently do. I have walked rounds on summer afternoons in less than 3 hours as a single or twosome. 

 

I've played that course, stuck behind people that fit my above categories, and had a 3 bog the course down, to the tune of a 4:45 minute round, and I most of that time was spent sitting on our thumbs. Worst part, the marshal and pro both asked them to speed up, and let people through. The problem was that things were so stacked up behind them,  that they'd have been letting a group through every single hole and STILL not cleared the backlog. 

 

This is not a greed thing here, it's a private course. We go out every 10 minutes if it's busy. every 15 if it's not. Tournaments are almost all shotgun starts. People play the game slow, and they are getting slower. It's check the distance with the laser range finder, check the wind with a grass in the wind, 3 warmups, 2 waggles, a step away a push in to the woods, an 8 minute search for the ball (30 yards past where it went in, ego says they didn't hit it that short). then it's 4 reads from each angle for all 3 putts on the green. Because that is how the pro's do it. Let us not mention that all of this was for the 9th stroke on the hole, which will be recorded as a 6 on the par 5.

[Dhuck Whooker]

If you're in a hurry, try a pool room or bowling alley. You shouldn't have anywhere to go when you're playing golf.

 

One thing the architects can do is stop trying to build US Open venues. Make the courses shorter, easier, and faster to play.

 

I don't know what the rush is. Golf is like baseball, not football. It's not a timed game. You're done when you're done.

Mr. Nifty, I agree with you that all great experiences in life should be savored, not hurried, like the big bowl of pasta I am about to snarf.

 

However, my body likes to keep moving once it started, so a nice pace of play is appreciated as opposed to standing and waiting (worse sitting in the cart) and having my body turn into a pretzel, has you alluded to in a earlier post, a hard one that you have to dip in beer to eat.

 

Historically this has been a problem since there was a 2nd golfer who joined up with the first golfer, one of them was probably going too slow.

 

Just like when they put the 1st roundabout in the community, some common behaviors are expected for all, can we do the same on the golf course?