Joining a Club

[Jmikecpa]

First and foremost let me preface by saying this is truly a first world issue for me and there is no bad outcome.  I have been "encouraged" by my company to join a club for client relationship reasons which will be subsidized by my employer to some degree.  I am the only member of senior management that plays but most of the business contacts that I deal with play quite a bit.  So the last six months we have been looking around for something that would work and narrowed it down to three choices.

 

Club 1 - 20 minutes from my house, but a golf club and not a country club.  They have a golf course and a grill room (both very nice) but no amenities for the family.  Plus is that it is very reasonably priced con is that it is an hour from my office making business golf challenging. 

 

Club 2 - Full service club that is half way between work and home, full range and just about any amenity that you can find.  Con is that I am out of pocket quite a bit after the stipend as well as not sure how much my family would actually use it. Another con is that it is an equity club so I have a four year buy in to cover as well.

 

Club 3 - Full service club with a beach club that is a 25 minutes from the office and 40 minutes from my house.  Fantastic golf course and junior program which I think my wife and kids would use.  Con is that it is still a fair amount of coin out of my pocket on a monthly basis.

 

Tried to get my wife's sense on which would work for her and she told me it is my decision.  I actually have filled out the paperwork for club #1 and was going to drop it off this week, but got derailed because of work.  Now my wife is not sure that is the best choice, but won't tell me what she wants to do (story of my life).  I have an idea of what I am going to do, but what would you decide if if was your choice?

[Kenny B]

Club 3  

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

I like Door #3 if the coin is not too dear. You get what you pay for and if the rest of the family can make use of it then it's not "just for you." Business golf has a way of becoming recreational golf in the mind of a spouse, clients or no clients. You know the old saying, "Happy wife...."

 

 

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[wbealsd]

I'll second Kenny's suggestion.

 

In my circumstances, I'm a member of a club similar to #1, golf and food but no other amenities.  My wife doesn't golf, but we'd spend more time there if she could use a pool, or other activity that she'd enjoy.  The closest "real" country club is over an hour away, but I know if we were closer she'd rather have me play there!

 

Between #2 & #3, I'd avoid the equity buy-in, unless you were REALLY sure you're there for the "long haul."

[Kor.A.Door]

I would really look at how much the family will actually use the amenities. If the decision there is that yes they will use them then I w think club 3 is the better choice, but if not then Club 1 looks better. Club 2, I don't like buy in fees, so I would not even consider this one, you get "pot committed", and nothing extra for it.

[~^~]

I joined and quit 2 clubs the last 2 years. Club A was 20 minutes from home, but only had 18 holes, and fantastic practice facilities. Problem was someone was always on the course, always crowded. I go over and find they were having a late afternoon junior girls' match. So, first rule: club must have at least 27 holes, preferably 36. Club B offered a great deal with no cart fees for the first 6 months. However, it was 35-45 minutes away on heavy traffic surface roads. Result: I played less, because the drive was such a pain, plus I was so wound up from traffic, I couldn't concentrate on golf. Also, Club B was just too far away to play, go home, pick up the wife and return for dinner. We did that twice in a year; each time felt like a marathon. After golf with the Men's Club, I was always first to leave due to the long drive, and couldn't drink alcohol. Rule 2: the commute must be quick, or at least easy on highways, not through daily commuter routes.

[PlaidJacket]

Jmikecpa... if your company wants you in a club great. But they have to pay. That's business. I've worked for two companies that already had a corporate membership with 3-5 members on the plan. The way it works is.... they pay the membership. Initiation and monthly dues. You only pay for non-business expenses. Your employer is asking you to subsidize their business. You're not a business. They are. Most businesses provide membership to employees as a perk but also with the understanding that you'll use it for business purposes as well. You can also talk to the club and see what they say about your membership should you leave the company or the company quits the deal. They might offer you a reduced initiation fee to you to keep the membership in your name or perhaps nothing at all. You just keep being a member and paying dues. Or.... you go get the membership in your name and have the company reimburse you.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade. Not at all. But I think your employer/boss needs to setup to the plate on this one. You're Senior Management. Right?

[jaxbeachpackerfan]

I'm retired from a profession and situation where the "client relationship" benefits of the club membership and golf invitations were hugely proportional to the "status" of the club as perceived by the customer/client.  I had cheaped out on the club I joined (because I lived on the course and we heavily used it for all the family amenities), but it was low on the totem pole of club relative status.  I learned over time, however, that it was virtually worthless from a client relationship standpoint.  Fortunately, other partners had wisely chosen or been favored with memberships at the prestigious clubs and I was able to piggyback on their memberships in many client entertainment situations.  I vote strongly with the one with the most perceived "prestige" if you're seeking to maximize the customer/client relation benefit.  Not saying I agree with that dynamic, but in my experience, it's very real.

[Jmikecpa]

Plaid let me clarify. I in fact am senior management and for the Americas I am the guy. My company will pay whatever the cost is; initiation, dues, etc. the part that they will not pay is my family membership so essentially I am on the hook for the delta between a single and a family. Club 1 would be covered 100% since my family would not use it. Club 2 would only cost me the family portion but that is a lot of coin. Club 3 is significantly less than #2 with a lot more offerings for my family. The membership will be in my name and the company will write me a check every month to cover their portion of the expenses. No sense in a Corp membership since I am the only one in senior management that plays. Now when I open my Vegas property I will be listed on all of our memberships.

 

 

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[Kenny B]

I liked Club 3 because it sounds like it will offer you a lot of family options.  If the primary purpose is for client relationships and Club 2 is far superior to Club 3 in that regard, then Jax is right.  However, it sounded to me that the golf courses offer similar client value.  To me, the benefit of Club 3 family activities and the junior program for your son outweighs the other options.  

 

I would certainly check on the Men's club activities and if possible, talk to some of the members.  I know some of the members at our ritzy country club, and I wouldn't join if they offered me a free membership.

[Jmikecpa]

Kenny and Jax - fair point on the prestige factor. While the pricier club holds a higher value in that category it is not a wide margin. Both clubs have hosted US majors; albeit in the 20's and 30's. I have played both clubs and attended events several times over the last few years and would fit at either club as would my family. I am very laid back and not into the BS that you can get into at some clubs.

 

Appreciate the input and now going to try and get the same out of my wife.

[MattF]

I'm all in with Kenny. #3 sounds like the best fit with what you want to do business wise vs what you want to do with your family.

[dru_]

I too would go with #3. 

 

I had a similar choice to make, but got exceptionally lucky. The club I chose has two courses about 3-4 miles apart. the less prestigious one is about a mile from the house, and has all the family stuff, but no driving range.  The other one is very nice ( as in for years was the only PING nFlight center in Atlanta ), It's long hilly, and doesn't drain worth a damned, but it is prestigious. My membership let me play either course.  Funny thing though. The only time I play the nice course is with customers. I'd actually rather play the 'Goat' and it's short target golf on my own time, besides, I can walk to the course if I want .

[~^~]

You complicated the problem by trying to add a family membership. Club 3 is an 80 minute round trip for your wife. She told you Club 1 was wrong because it's not prestigious enough for your clients. Basically your company is only paying for a single membership, and that's the simple solution at Club 2 or 3. Don't upgrade to a family membership unless your wife is willing to shuttle the kids after school that round trip distance and time. Stick with the single membership at Club 2 or 3. You can upgrade later if she really wants to join.

[Jmikecpa]

You complicated the problem by trying to add a family membership. Club 3 is an 80 minute round trip for your wife. She told you Club 1 was wrong because it's not prestigious enough for your clients. Basically your company is only paying for a single membership, and that's the simple solution at Club 2 or 3. Don't upgrade to a family membership unless your wife is willing to shuttle the kids after school that round trip distance and time. Stick with the single membership at Club 2 or 3. You can upgrade later if she really wants to join.

Actually prestige of club #1 has nothing to do with it.  The lack of amenities for the family would be the reason I would just join myself.  You are correct that I have complicated it a bit by adding in the family, but if they are not part of it then it is not worth it to me.  My wife views it differently and would be fine either way.  The family addition is something that I want since I think it would be great for my kids.  My son and both my girls play golf so there is benefit to it.  The travel time is not an issue since nothing on Long Island is convenient for us.

[Maverickping]

Option 3 sounds like the right idea. Of almost equal value is the relationship for business and for the family. I would think for business it would require a course that is reflective of your company and position; for the family it sounds like a perfect situation for all.

[Kenny B]

I think it's worthwhile to do a little negotiation.  When you bring clients, the club will see some benefit.  That might be worth something to them to reduce the family part of the membership.  Can't hurt.

[Jmikecpa]

I think it's worthwhile to do a little negotiation.  When you bring clients, the club will see some benefit.  That might be worth something to them to reduce the family part of the membership.  Can't hurt.

Fair point and I always negotiate.  Kind of what I do for a living.

[revkev]

It seems as if number 3 is the right option given that work is encouraging the move, no? 

 

I've been amazed at how much benefit my membership has been for work.  Aside from being able to entertain any number of church related friends we've already had our staff Christmas party and a wedding reception there.  I was thinking that I'd be quitting at the end of a year (April) but I have lots of folks encouraging me to stay to the point that I wouldn't be shocked if the church didn't give me a little stipend - it would be worth it to them.

[Jmikecpa]

It seems as if number 3 is the right option given that work is encouraging the move, no? 

 

I've been amazed at how much benefit my membership has been for work.  Aside from being able to entertain any number of church related friends we've already had our staff Christmas party and a wedding reception there.  I was thinking that I'd be quitting at the end of a year (April) but I have lots of folks encouraging me to stay to the point that I wouldn't be shocked if the church didn't give me a little stipend - it would be worth it to them.

That is where we are leaning.  My wife went out and looked at it today and really liked what they had to offer.  The drive was not overly burdensome, very family inclusive and they have a private beach club.  The cost trade off will work out better than I thought since she would not renew the beach club membership we have now and drop the summer pool membership.  They also have junior programs for golf and tennis that my kids would absolutely love.  

 

I can see how it would be valuable for your line of work....I do most of my best praying on the golf course (sorry, couldn't resist).

[Jmikecpa]

So my wife and I have made a decision and I actually weighed a lot of the points that you guys made to me and I appreciate that.  We have decided to go with club #3 for several reasons, mainly that it is very family friendly and child inclusive.  Second big factor for me was the quality of the golf facilities and course as well as the relative location to my office in NY.  My company has cut me a pretty good deal to get this moving forward and I have no complaints on how it is structured.  Have a flight back to NY later in the week and will sign the docs and get them over to the club.  I kind of find it interesting to get to hack it around a club that both Bobby Jones and Hagen have won a major at.

[Maverickping]

Sounds great and choice!

[L.I. Rich]

I just submitted my first dues payment yesterday to my club. It's the first golf club that I've joined and I am really excited.  My family has next to zero interest in golf, but I'm pretty obsessed.  It's about 20 minutes from my home, 30-40 minutes from my office and a really nice facility.  I look forward to 3.5 hour rounds and using the very nice short game practice area.  (I rationalize the expense to myself by arguing that a round won't be 5-6 hours out of my day!)

I also look forward to getting to know the pro to see if he can knock a few strokes off my HC.

It's going to be 70 degrees here today, and only a little cooler this weekend!  C'mon Spring!

Did I mention that I'm excited?!

Giddyup!

[Kenny B]

I just submitted my first dues payment yesterday to my club. It's the first golf club that I've joined and I am really excited.  My family has next to zero interest in golf, but I'm pretty obsessed.  It's about 20 minutes from my home, 30-40 minutes from my office and a really nice facility.  I look forward to 3.5 hour rounds and using the very nice short game practice area.  (I rationalize the expense to myself by arguing that a round won't be 5-6 hours out of my day!)

I also look forward to getting to know the pro to see if he can knock a few strokes off my HC.

It's going to be 70 degrees here today, and only a little cooler this weekend!  C'mon Spring!

Did I mention that I'm excited?!

Giddyup!

I don't think you will be disappointed.  Yes, it's a little more expensive, but I've found that I can go play most anytime I want (except when the H.S. teams practice and compete).  I've also met some very nice people and have a regular game scheduled with them.  Have fun!!

[L.I. Rich]

Thanks Kenny, I think you're right.  I've been a guest at this club several times in the past, and have had a great time.  Yes, I think that the fact that it's always available will be of great enjoyment, and I'm sure that I will meet some good people.  As far as the expense goes, this year and foreseeably, it's a fit, and I'm grateful to be in this position.  

[Jmikecpa]

Thanks Kenny, I think you're right.  I've been a guest at this club several times in the past, and have had a great time.  Yes, I think that the fact that it's always available will be of great enjoyment, and I'm sure that I will meet some good people.  As far as the expense goes, this year and foreseeably, it's a fit, and I'm grateful to be in this position.  

I am happy with my choice so far and have only used the range.  Was planning to play Friday and Saturday, but unfortunately I am headed to Shanghai on little to no notice for a few days.

[L.I. Rich]

I am happy with my choice so far and have only used the range.  Was planning to play Friday and Saturday, but unfortunately I am headed to Shanghai on little to no notice for a few days.

Good to here - er, about the experience so far. :-)  Good luck with the travels and get back on the course soon.

[Jmikecpa]

Good to here - er, about the experience so far. :-)  Good luck with the travels and get back on the course soon.

Thanks.  Would like to say that this is the first and last time I am traveling to Asia on a moment's notice, but the former is false and afraid the latter is as well.