Short Game Struggles

[BIG STU]

For a typical swing taller people need clubs a little upright, and shorter people need them a little flatter.  I am not sure what is considered standard, but I know that standard between OEMs varies a degree or two.

Dead on it Kenny-- I never go by stock numbers unless someone is selling a set and wants me to set it back "stock" I go strictly by the lie board. In other words like I stated before in another post my standard wedge lie is 65* which if one wants to get really technical it would be 1* or 2* upright for a stock Vokey that setting is mostly stock for older Cleveland wedges. To be honest on my Macs I can not tell you what any lie is on them except the PW I just check them on the lie board and re adjust when needed

[Kenny B]

Dead on it Kenny-- I never go by stock numbers unless someone is selling a set and wants me to set it back "stock" I go strictly by the lie board. In other words like I stated before in another post my standard wedge lie is 65* which if one wants to get really technical it would be 1* or 2* upright for a stock Vokey that setting is mostly stock for older Cleveland wedges. To be honest on my Macs I can not tell you what any lie is on them except the PW I just check them on the lie board and re adjust when needed

The standard lie on my SCOR wedges is 1* flatter than the standard Ping i20's that I had.  My Pings are Purple dot which is 1.5 flat.  I wanted the SCORs the be 2* flat but SCOR said that would only be 1* flat from their standard to equal the Pings.  I'm confused just writing this!!  Anyway, when I built my Macs I made them 3* flat of the Mac standard lies:  60* for the 8i and 1/2 inch flatter for each club down to 58.5 for my 5i.  They are a much better fit for me than the SCORs that I ordered were so I bent the wedges to match my Macs.  All is good now.

[cksurfdude]

Hmmmm .. I have a tendency to miss a little left with the wedges, which are not adjusted from "standard" (64°) ... now wondering if it's worth taking these on a trip to a fitter....

 

Thanks all for provoking those thoughts :-) !!!!!!!!!

[Kenny B]

Hmmmm .. I have a tendency to miss a little left with the wedges, which are not adjusted from "standard" (64°) ... now wondering if it's worth taking these on a trip to a fitter....

 

Thanks all for provoking those thoughts :-) !!!!!!!!!

It can be the clubs.  If the lie is a little too upright, the heel will catch the grass first and close the club face.  However, going left can also be a swing issue.  I had that problem last year, but my instructor helped me fix it.  Best to see both fitter and pro.

[cksurfdude]

 

 

It can be the clubs.

HA!!!!

 

Isn't it *always* the clubs (and not the player's fault)???

 

But, yeah, you're right this particular player has been seen in occasion to make a very slightly less than perfect setup and swing ... Could be possible a short game.lesson might help with that a bit.... :-)

[PMookie]

Chipping is my worst, but getting better. I used to be lights-out, but I have neglected this part of my game for years now... No, I did not go through a wedge fitting for my current wedges. Previous ones? I did the Cleveland wedge analyzer, but that was it.

 

 

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[Rtracymog]

My game changed a few years ago when I read a golf digest article, Pelz probably, that helped me dial in my wedge game. I'm a pretty long hitter and I have a lot of shots within 100 yards. I now have a half, 3/4 and full s*** distances with my 56 and 60. I think of my take away and my left arm as a hand clock and accelerate to a full or almost full finish (most of the time I like to leave the face pointing up at the end to make it land softer). I have a 7:30 take away (50&60), a nine takeaway (75/85) and then full (100/120). The other distances I can simply choose to be a little short or a little long or vary my backswing. It took a lot of guesswork out of my swing.

I do have custom wedges and I've fit my dad for some. It's worth the time and money. It's actually one of the easier fittings to do. Once you find a shape, feel and weight that you like, you simply dial in the grind. My dad was such a terrible chipper early on that I bought him an F2 wedge (anti shank, face in front of the hozel). With the Clevelands I fit him for, he's so much more confident and has pulled off many shots that a 25+ handicapper shouldn't be able to pull off.

I personally like to play with a lot of loft around the greens. I just always have. I will almost never putt with more than a foot or two of fringe or fairway in front of me. I don't mind the bump and run with a gap or pitching wedge, but I have to have a decent amount of green or a large hump in front of the pin.

There have been plenty of times when I've driven by a course on the way home from work, grabbed a couple of clubs and balls and hung out for 15-20 minutes. It's free and quick! Good luck getting everything figured out!

 

 

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[PMookie]

My short game has gotten pretty bad as I've been trying to get the swing change down. I'm "decent" at chipping since it's not out of deep Bermuda rough! I generally play a 8/9/pw and I'm pretty comfortable with it.

Pitching out of the Bermuda around here is a PAIN! It's SO hard to have touch because the ball goes to the bottom, the ground is generally hard underneath, and how the ball comes out is very inconsistent. I'd give almost anything to go back to playing Bent grasses again!!

This coming year I'm going to spend one day a week just chipping/pitching/putting. I could gain an average of FOUR strokes a round just by improving my short game, based on my stats.

It just takes practice... And I haven't been practicing it!

 

 

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[Kenny B]

My short game has gotten pretty bad as I've been trying to get the swing change down. I'm "decent" at chipping since it's not out of deep Bermuda rough! I generally play a 8/9/pw and I'm pretty comfortable with it.

Pitching out of the Bermuda around here is a PAIN! It's SO hard to have touch because the ball goes to the bottom, the ground is generally hard underneath, and how the ball comes out is very inconsistent. I'd give almost anything to go back to playing Bent grasses again!!

This coming year I'm going to spend one day a week just chipping/pitching/putting. I could gain an average of FOUR strokes a round just by improving my short game, based on my stats.

It just takes practice... And I haven't been practicing it!

I'm not a fan of Bermuda either since we don't have it up north, but I will be going to AZ in February and I will just get used to it again by the time I have to leave!!  I also know that Bermuda in AZ is different than Bermuda in the Southeast which is harder for me.

 

As for practice... IMO you would do well to spend an hour 3-4 times a week to practice short game instead of one day a week.  More frequent practice has worked better for me than a longer session once a week.  Yes, I can go whenever I want now that I have retired, but last year I stopped by the course after work to practice certain short shots that gave me trouble when I played on the weekend.  Since very few people were at the course at that time, I could go to any hole and practice the shots I missed.

[PMookie]

I'm not a fan of Bermuda either since we don't have it up north, but I will be going to AZ in February and I will just get used to it again by the time I have to leave!! I also know that Bermuda in AZ is different than Bermuda in the Southeast which is harder for me.

 

As for practice... IMO you would do well to spend an hour 3-4 times a week to practice short game instead of one day a week. More frequent practice has worked better for me than a longer session once a week. Yes, I can go whenever I want now that I have retired, but last year I stopped by the course after work to practice certain short shots that gave me trouble when I played on the weekend. Since very few people were at the course at that time, I could go to any hole and practice the shots I missed.

I'd LOVE to spend there to four days a week on it... But, with work and three kids in activities, that's pretty much impossible.

 

 

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[jofi]

After not being phased by bunkers (have been confident from them for ages), I've recently had the yips in the past few months.

First Rd of Club Champs on the weekend just gone saw me skinny from a greenside bunker over the green to the other bunker, and then 4 shots to get out of that one  to a tight pin.

Have changed 60 deg wedge in the past 6 months (Mack Daddy 2 to Vokey K Grind), I feel this has something to do with it, although ultimately it comes back to technique & confidence.

[cnosil]

my biggest problem is chipping.  Inconsistent chipping with one of my clubs and tendency to leave myself too far from the hole to have an easy 1 putt.   Actually went out and bought an inexpensive wedge to see if the bounce on my current wedge might be an issue.

[ole gray]

my biggest problem is chipping.  Inconsistent chipping with one of my clubs and tendency to leave myself too far from the hole to have an easy 1 putt.   Actually went out and bought an inexpensive wedge to see if the bounce on my current wedge might be an issue.

 

 

Good Lord poor chipping can kill a good ball striking day.  I had a decent ball striking day yesterday and my chipping game sucked about the same as a supped up Electrolux.

[cnosil]

Good Lord poor chipping can kill a good ball striking day.  I had a decent ball striking day yesterday and my chipping game sucked about the same as a supped up Electrolux.

 

 

I could be a pretty good golfer if it wasn't for my short game woes.   I wish it wasn't dark at 5:00;  need to go to the chipping green and just work on hitting chips for a few hours a day.

[cksurfdude]

Good Morning,

 

I would like to know what the most difficult part of short game is for most players.

 

Chipping? Pitching? Putting? etc and is the struggle not knowing the right swing for

 

these shots or not being able execute what you know is good technique.

 

Also, how many of you have custom fit wedges as compared to custom fit drivers?

 

Thank you,

 

Mike

Bunkers for me. Tense up. For no good reason, of course. Blow it pretty much every time.

 

Been thinking of digging a pit in the back yard and filling it with sand to make my own practice bunker!

 

My short game was actually decent enough when I started playing, and has continually improved. I'm not big and tall and not a power hitter so realized I would have to develop a good technique in my game; especially the short game.

 

Do not always properly execute the intended shot, but am improving on that.

 

Do not have custom fit wedges, but have been considering a full-bag fitting. For example, my irons are -2° flat so I'm wondering if my wedges should be also. The wedges I game now - with respect to loft and bounce - have been selected through my own experimentation, but are otherwise off the rack.

[cksurfdude]

If I used an 8 or 9 to bump and run, it would run off the other side of the green! Maybe I'll use a PW; mostly my 50, but if the pin is close, it's a 54 or 58 depending on the lie.

Maybe, but maybe not.... Depends on the lie and the amount of green to cover and any elevation change ... e.g. if the green surface is a bit elevated from your lie plus the green slopes uphill, an 8 or 9 can give you more rollout to get up to the pin...

[cksurfdude]

I have a hard time between 85 and 65 yards. my 54 goes 100 and my 58 im not totally comfortable hitting a full shot. It goes straight up and will be short. I try to avoid a full wedge if at all possible. I have tried every make and model. Blade wedges tend to do that. My 58 is great around greens so I kind of just deal with it

Have you worked on gripping down, swinging horizontal to horizontal, narrowing your stance, moving ball slightly back or forward, etc...???

 

One or more of those types of adjustments can turn your fav wedge into a real weapon

[cksurfdude]

You're spot on Stu. I'm so used to playing my wedge shots to land and release, due to coming from a set that was so worn out, I had a custom built 588 DSG in 56 that had been my workhorse for the past 10 years, used it just about everywhere inside 90 yards. But finally the grooves go so worn I needed new wedges. These SM6's are so good, and have so much spin, I've not yet learned to be aggressive enough with them on carrying the shots to the hole knowing they are going to hold. Like I said just need more time with them.

 

Also with the hard firm conditions we have here now with the hot and dry weather of the past month, I felt the greens would release a bit more. Always learning and trying to perfect in this game, aren't we

Had a similar thing this season - older wedge I'd been playing has no milling on the face .. it's smooth between the grooves .. but despite a few attempted groove sharpenings finally wore enough it warranted replacing.

 

Could not believe how balls stopped on the greens the first several plays with the new wedge! Now I know to hit it more "confidently" ;-)

[cksurfdude]

Sounds like there may be some overthinking going on, Big Stu says to just put the ball on the green somewhere, that's great advice when you are struggling, pick a club that puts you on the green, sometimes in touch shots or feel shots, the tendency is guide the ball to the green instead of making a good strike to the ball, it's the same with sand shots, find a good method that gets you out onto the green, it doesn't have to be a great shot or the perfect shot, just an effective shot, get the ball on the green. Don't over think what you are doing.

That was definitely a problem for me (over-swinging) when starting out: which club do I use for _this_ shot? .. do I want more carry/less roll or less carry/more roll? .. ball back or forward? .. wrist action or no wrists? .. short back/short though or short back/long through or ____? .. (and etc. and etc.)

 

More thinking than doing!

 

Now am learning to simplify and to make small adjustments off of one solid base.

 

* Key swing thought: most weight on flat front foot.

[cksurfdude]

 

 

Wow, those are great comments!! I see some players who have wedges that are bent to a flatter lie angle and some whose are slightly upright.

 

When I was coaching on the PGA Tour most of the players had their wedges bent 2-3 degrees flat to make the wedge work properly.

 

Just curious as to why have any players here have had your wedge lie angle adjusted?

 

Thank you, Mike

I seem to have a tendency to pull my pitch shots left, so I open up just a bit to compensate. Mentioned in an earlier post my wedges have not been custom fit, but my irons are -2° flat so I'm thinking I should have the wedges checked......

[Kenny B]

Maybe, but maybe not.... Depends on the lie and the amount of green to cover and any elevation change ... e.g. if the green surface is a bit elevated from your lie plus the green slopes uphill, an 8 or 9 can give you more rollout to get up to the pin...

The greens at my course aren't real big; fair sized, but not big and only some slope, and no elevated greens to speak of.  They are also quite quick. A typical PW landed about 2 feet on the green can roll 3/4 of the way across the green.  Now, when I play at a resort course, I would certainly consider an 8 or 9 because of the bigger greens and several tiers to them.  

 

On the days when I practice my short game, I will chip with LW, SW, and PW to the same pin.  I find that it's a good way to judge the distance and rollout.  I am not happy until I can get 3 balls with each club within 3 feet of the hole.  Many are closer, and I can usually make one.

[cksurfdude]

The greens at my course aren't real big; fair sized, but not big and only some slope, and no elevated greens to speak of. They are also quite quick. A typical PW landed about 2 feet on the green can roll 3/4 of the way across the green. Now, when I play at a resort course, I would certainly consider an 8 or 9 because of the bigger greens and several tiers to them.

 

On the days when I practice my short game, I will chip with LW, SW, and PW to the same pin. I find that it's a good way to judge the distance and rollout. I am not happy until I can get 3 balls with each club within 3 feet of the hole. Many are closer, and I can usually make one.

Yeah was guessing that so thanks for the clarification. Good distinction on Playing up to flat vs elevated greens.

 

To all who are scanning through this thread looking for short game pointers:

 

Please re-read especially Kenny's and Big Stu's posts! I think one of the main takeaways for me is...

* Don't fixate on "X yards to the pin" but rather 'play the shot in front of you'

 

(and play the shot that gives you the highest chance of success)