Equipment Termology

[ole gray]

A good place to share those equipment terms that many of us are confused or need educating on.

 

I'll start with spin as I found a clear definition IMO of how spin affects the strong player vs the average.

 

 

Every golfer's swing is unique, and variables such as swing speed and angle of attack in particular affect the spin rate. With stronger players, too much spin does limit the distance of a shot with the driver. Slower swingers, however, can actually benefit from equipment that increases the spin rate to add yardage to their drives.

[ole gray]

Moderator please fix spelling in topic heading  

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

Moderator please fix spelling in topic heading

 

Got itt...

[ole gray]

I thought forum member jaskanski had some very interesting info concerning spin so I borrowed it and tacked it in this thread.

 

 

Not necessarily. Depending on individual launch characteristics, spin can be an asset rather than an enemy. But in reality, of all the components that combine to make distance possible (i.e. speed, launch angle, spin) then spin is the least important of all. Speed is the overriding factor of any distance formula - for any level of golfer. Speed is only possible with the correct technique, the correct impact - and this is only possible with the correct fit. This means you are more likely to find the optimum speed by finding the centre of the club face (commonly referred to as smash factor). 

Once you combine these figures to achieve the optimum distance, you soon find than spin reduction only really matters once launch speed increases into the high parameters usually only achieved by highly accomplished golfers. A difficult concept to grasp perhaps, but in part demonstrated by Taylormades "loft up" campaign when it suggested that low spin is only really of any use to the average golfer if it was employed with the counter-active metric of loft (more loft = more spin).

What we can all gain from this is that there are no hard and fast rules to spin when it comes to club fitting - especially for the driver. What can be gained however is that there is an optimal amount of launch and spin given for each players achievable ball speed and their angle of attack (equating to spin loft - another chapter perhaps) which will equate to the best achievable distance. 

So what I'm saying is - spin can actually help some people by increasing achievable distance - lowering spin would actually result in distance loss. So the often misunderstood launch data and the ever-increasing desire to lower spin can be the wrong direction for many golfers. So this is why a fitting session is so critical in selecting the right equipment for your needs - again, particularly where the driver is concerned.

[Justin H]

Good thread ole gray, one I hope some fitters or MGS staffers comment on. Even though I work in technology I haven't taken the time to learn what the headings/terminology on a launch monitor truly mean. All I care about is my swing speed, ball flight, and how the club 'felt' because I'm a 'feel player' (meaning I'm too lazy to Google smash factor).

 

So I don't know if that's where you were headed with this thread, but I am curious what smash factor and launch angle and the like truly mean in real world terms, and what I need to be looking for on a monitor to best benefit my game.

 

And not to hijack, but I'm also curious how many times any of y'all have gone to a store to demo a few clubs (not an actual fitting, just comparing drivers) and ended up purchasing the club that had weaker numbers on the monitor but 'felt better.' After all, golf is 210% mental and 60% physical (my math could be off), so is it worth it sometimes to buck science for what looks or feels right?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

[BIG STU]

Well i am old school as heck (surprise surprise!!) but I am sorta grasping at technology. Your statement and Ski's are absolutely correct. back in my younger days I hit a terrible rope hook so I taught myself the anti hook swing so to speak. Now with modern drivers I was actually killing myself on distance hitting the baby cut Now i have been making some gradual changes in the last year or so and with my swing and my swing was complicated. I have simplified it some and have been slowly learning to hit a draw with the driver. I did do a little launch monitor test a few weeks ago and got enlightened. I was loosing distance due to side spin with my cut. I am getting a little draw now I just have to learn to trust it which is hard for me because in the back of my mind I still fear that rope hook. Now I can draw my new (to me) Callaway forged X 2013 irons or I can hit my hold off fade. The irons especially the short ones I would rather hit the cut. I learned that from reading about spin rates on here and WRX. I learned a lot from my to launch monitor sessions at a shop up the street. Side spin really makes a difference especially with the modern driver. I think this has the makings to be a great educational thread

[ole gray]

Good thread ole gray, one I hope some fitters or MGS staffers comment on. Even though I work in technology I haven't taken the time to learn what the headings/terminology on a launch monitor truly mean. All I care about is my swing speed, ball flight, and how the club 'felt' because I'm a 'feel player' (meaning I'm too lazy to Google smash factor).

 

So I don't know if that's where you were headed with this thread, but I am curious what smash factor and launch angle and the like truly mean in real world terms, and what I need to be looking for on a monitor to best benefit my game.

 

And not to hijack, but I'm also curious how many times any of y'all have gone to a store to demo a few clubs (not an actual fitting, just comparing drivers) and ended up purchasing the club that had weaker numbers on the monitor but 'felt better.' After all, golf is 210% mental and 60% physical (my math could be off), so is it worth it sometimes to buck science for what looks or feels right?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

 

Well said buddy and your post is exactly what this thread is all about.  As far as googling things, that's cool however us old coots forget what we googled the next day so having this thread as a reference is a good thing.

[ole gray]

Well i am old school as heck (surprise surprise!!) but I am sorta grasping at technology. Your statement and Ski's are absolutely correct. back in my younger days I hit a terrible rope hook so I taught myself the anti hook swing so to speak. Now with modern drivers I was actually killing myself on distance hitting the baby cut Now i have been making some gradual changes in the last year or so and with my swing and my swing was complicated. I have simplified it some and have been slowly learning to hit a draw with the driver. I did do a little launch monitor test a few weeks ago and got enlightened. I was loosing distance due to side spin with my cut. I am getting a little draw now I just have to learn to trust it which is hard for me because in the back of my mind I still fear that rope hook. Now I can draw my new (to me) Callaway forged X 2013 irons or I can hit my hold off fade. The irons especially the short ones I would rather hit the cut. I learned that from reading about spin rates on here and WRX. I learned a lot from my to launch monitor sessions at a shop up the street. Side spin really makes a difference especially with the modern driver. I think this has the makings to be a great educational thread

 

 

 Like yourself, I have been around this game for a long time.  With that said, some of the comments about how/why equipment performs a certain way,  I need it clarified in simpler terms. If we know more about how things are suppose to work, we can make a better decision when purchasing new stuff.

[jaskanski]

For those who don't like to Google, PTR or smash factor is simply the ratio between clubhead speed and ball speed - basically the figure is derived from ball speed divided by clubhead speed.. The more efficiently you hit the ball, the greater the potential ball speed you achieve. Simply put, if you strike the ball squarely in the centre of the club face, you get the best transfer of energy to the ball and therefore the greatest ball speed.

The how and technique used to achieve this is ultimately variable from golfer to golfer, because swings tendencies are all individual - and this is the primary reason for fitting golf clubs to individuals - to get the ball to strike squarely in the centre of the club face the majority of the time.

Sounds simple right? Lol - if only it were that easy. The point is, you are more likely to achieve this if you have a club or set of clubs fitted to your swing and your needs.

The beauty of this theory is that it applies to any piece of equipment. From a technology point of view, it applies more to the times when you don't strike it squarely in the centre of the face and the available tech lessens the negative traits of the impact (not correct or eliminate it).

From a fitting perspective, I would always recommend getting the impact centralised first and foremost - other things like launch and spin can be manipulated pretty easily from that point.

[jaskanski]

I should elaborate, for driver fitting the magic number you are looking for is a smash factor of 1.50 - this is the best possible figure (all things considered) for the ball speed to club speed ratio. For example, if you had a clubhead speed of 100mph, your ball speed would equate to 150mph.

For most average amateurs, this figure is rarely achievable on a regular basis, however that is nor to say it is totally out of reach either. A better way of putting it is to strive to get the best figure near to it - something in the region of 1.42 and above would be a good place to be. If your smash factor is anything less than this for your driver, then you need fitting - period. You are leaving yards on the table - not as a result of launch or spin, but simply because of the poor quality of your strike. If you revert back to the 100 mph example, then your ball speed for 1.39 smash factor is now 139mph - some 11mph less than a better strike with exactly the same club head speed. As we have discussed, ball speed is the overriding factor in driving distance, so added yards are easily achieved with a better centre impact. If the ball speed is then extrapolated to fit a "launch window" of optimised launch angle and spin (which are interrelated to each other) then further distance gains could be achieved. A "launch window" simply means an imaginary area in the space in front of the golfer to drive the ball through - a large launch window is easier to hit given the golfer abilty and equipment fit,  but may be at the expense of distance and dispersion (or accuracy) - a small launch window is harder to acieve but will yield better distance and accuracy - needless to say pros aim at a smaller launch window than you or I.

For most, this is the single most over-looked factor in fitting - how well you hit it. Instead, too much attention is often paid to shafts, heads and spin when a simple set up change could yield better results for many players.

[Kor.A.Door]

Talked with a buddy Saturday on this very topic, he is very good, and is very knowledgeable in golf. The longer hitter like him want very little spin to get the best out of their shot, guys like me who are somewhat long need a little more spin to help keep the ball in the air longer. Short hitters need more spin and more height to maximize their distance, there was more to the conversation, but this is just some parts

[PlaidJacket]

Try this one: angular velocity

 

[jaskanski]

Try this one: angular velocity

 

 

That relates more to the actual golf ball - and that is a can of worms of epic proportions my friend 

[ole gray]

Try this one: angular velocity

 

 

I've tried the Titleist Velocity balls but haven't had the chance to hit those angular's yet  

[bobcat]

I always think it's funny when people assume that good launch monitor numbers from another player constitutes 'TANGIBLE EVIDENCE' that the exact same club will work well for them too...People love to post these numbers here comparing clubs and then 'suggest' the club having the best numbers 'proves' one particular club is better than another, and that the results are applicable for everyone!.. 

 

Fact is, it depends on the player!  The only relevant launch monitor data for you is your own, and even then, you still need to see the on-course results to really know how well a club performs for you!.. 

 

The launch monitor data you see from others can be so deceiving! We all swing the club differently and have different ball striking skills, clubhead speed, etc.  You may very well need a very different type of shaft, different loft, length, lie, etc.. 

 

So, whenever possible, I suggest that do your own club testing, and don't place too much faith in launch monitor numbers alone, even when it actually is yours.  Be sure to test the club outside on a driving range, and then follow that up with an on-course test!   NEVER base your buying decisions on someone else's launch monitor numbers!..

[BIG STU]

That relates more to the actual golf ball - and that is a can of worms of epic proportions my friend 

That is all together another BIG can of worms. I can give a simple example. I still can work the ball some with the old blades but not like I could with the balata balls. I actually work some of the softer balls IE: Bridgestone Treo Soft or Srixon Soft Feel pretty well but sacrifice some distance. Now some of the aerodynamic tricked up balls like the E-6 E-7 I absolutely can not work at all. I have been working the ball so much I absolutely can not play not working the ball and hitting it straight so to speak

[BIG STU]

I always think it's funny when people assume that good launch monitor numbers from another player constitutes 'tangible evidence' that the exact same club will work well for them too...People love to post these numbers here comparing clubs and then 'suggest' the club having the best numbers 'proves' one particular club is better than another, and that the results are applicable for everyone!.. 

 

Fact is, it very much depends on the player!  The only relevant launch monitor data for you is your own, and even then, you still need to see the on-course results to really know how well a club performs for you!.. 

 

The launch monitor data you see from others can be so deceiving! We all swing the club differently and have different ball striking skills, clubhead speed, etc.  You may very well need a very different type of shaft, different loft, length, lie, etc.. 

 

So, whenever possible, I suggest that do your own club testing, and don't place too much faith in launch monitor numbers alone, even when it actually is yours.  Be sure to test the club outside on a driving range, and then follow that up with an on-course test!   NEVER base your buying decisions on someone else's launch monitor numbers!..

Dead on it there!! As I say the proof is in the pudding (ole Gray knows exactly what I am talking about) in other words a club for me may hit good on the range but I have to see how it performs on the course in the line of fire.

[ole gray]

Dead on it there!! As I say the proof is in the pudding (ole Gray knows exactly what I am talking about) in other words a club for me may hit good on the range but I have to see how it performs on the course in the line of fire.

Bingo! Now ya cooking with Crisco

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[ole gray]

I always think it's funny when people assume that good launch monitor numbers from another player constitutes 'tangible evidence' that the exact same club will work well for them too...People love to post these numbers here comparing clubs and then 'suggest' the club having the best numbers 'proves' one particular club is better than another, and that the results are applicable for everyone!.. 

 

Fact is, it very much depends on the player!  The only relevant launch monitor data for you is your own, and even then, you still need to see the on-course results to really know how well a club performs for you!.. 

 

The launch monitor data you see from others can be so deceiving! We all swing the club differently and have different ball striking skills, clubhead speed, etc.  You may very well need a very different type of shaft, different loft, length, lie, etc.. 

 

So, whenever possible, I suggest that do your own club testing, and don't place too much faith in launch monitor numbers alone, even when it actually is yours.  Be sure to test the club outside on a driving range, and then follow that up with an on-course test!   NEVER base your buying decisions on someone else's launch monitor numbers!..

 

Let's be honest here.  How many times have you read reviews of a popular driver, thought about it for a bit, and then hauled arse to the nearest golf store and bought one? Golf Digest Equipment Reviews, Golf blogs, forum chats, etc. all plant seeds in our mind. Then lust overcomes common sense and attacks our billfold.  Next thing you know you're walking out the door with a new toy.  Maybe you get on the range, pound a few and your eyes light up like a coon pup on his first treeing. You have found the holy grail of golf equipment!   Now you're going out on the course and put a whupping on ya buds like they're red headed step chillun.  You get on the first tee and stick out your chest like a male moose in a rutting contest and the real test begins.  Boom!!!   You look up and the ball slices off the planet or you duck hook one soooooooo bad it makes the flight of a boomerang look straight.

 

This ^^^^^^   is why I love MGS!  The folks here tell it like it is with no fear of hand slapping or a company taking it's toys and going home.  Good honest down home get in ya face reviews.   Even with the knowledge you gain from this awesome site, make sure you really know that a club fits your game before lust takes over. Most equipment ho's don't shack with the same club very long.  I wonder why?  Take ya time, spend your money wisely, and have a nice steady relationship with your new purchase.

[Kenny B]

If you read product reviews from Golf Digest Hot List, you might as well jump over and buy your favorite on #gullible.com