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Did the USGA just do something smart?


hckymeyer

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Remember when DJ's ball moved on the putting green?  How could you not!  
 
Well beginning Jan 1 2017 that's not going to be an issue any more.  The USGA just did the first smart thing I can remember.  
 
“Rules 18-218-3 and 20-1 are modified as follows:
When a player's ball lies on the putting green, there is no penalty if the ball or ball-marker is accidentally moved by the player, his partner, his opponent, or any of their caddies or equipment.
The moved ball or ball-marker must be replaced as provided in Rules 18-2, 18-3 and 20-1.
This Local Rule applies only when the player's ball or ball-marker lies on the putting green and any movement is accidental.

Note: If it is determined that a player's ball on the putting green was moved as a result of wind, water or some other natural cause such as the effects of gravity, the ball must be played as it lies from its new location. A ball-marker moved in such circumstances is replaced.”

 

Read the full article and text here...

 

http://www.usga.org/rules-hub/2017-local-rule/new-local-rule.html

 

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/2017-local-rule/2017-local-rule-resources.html

 

Here's the caveat.  It's a local rule.  It's been announced that all USGA and R&A events will use this rule, but since it's a "local rule" that means your individual events will still have to choose to use it if not governed by the USGA or R&A.  So make sure to check with the rules committee before you tee off.

 

Hopefully this becomes an official rule during the next review, but for now at least it's a step in the right direction!

 

Now if we could just get them to take a look at the OB stroke and distance situation...

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It's a start....

 

They need to also stop making rulings based on people calling in because they saw a rules violation on TV during live broadcasts.....

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Thanks to the one formerly known as hckymeyer. 

 

It's pretty unlikely that the ball is going to move for us.  Green speeds are like driving distances.  Everyone thinks that they love to putt on greens that run 12 and they are convinced that the greens at their course are that fast.  They wouldn't and they don't.  Generally our fast greens are in the 10.5 range.  The chances of playing in enough wind to move a ball on greens that are running at that speed are extremely slim.  For us if the ball moves its going to be our fault.

 

It's a good move for golf because it should prevent embarrassing situations such as last year from occurring.  The greens in a US Open are shaved.  That's when this becomes a real problem.

 

Actually now that I reflect this is yet another rule tailored to the .01 of golfers.  The USGA has to stop worrying about them and instead do its job and make the game simpler and more enjoyable for the other 99.99 percent of the people who play it.

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India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

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It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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Thanks to the one formerly known as hckymeyer. 

 

It's pretty unlikely that the ball is going to move for us.  Green speeds are like driving distances.  Everyone thinks that they love to putt on greens that run 12 and they are convinced that the greens at their course are that fast.  They wouldn't and they don't.  Generally our fast greens are in the 10.5 range.  The chances of playing in enough wind to move a ball on greens that are running at that speed are extremely slim.  For us if the ball moves its going to be our fault.

 

It's a good move for golf because it should prevent embarrassing situations such as last year from occurring.  The greens in a US Open are shaved.  That's when this becomes a real problem.

 

Actually now that I reflect this is yet another rule tailored to the .01 of golfers.  The USGA has to stop worrying about them and instead do its job and make the game simpler and more enjoyable for the other 99.99 percent of the people who play it.

I completely agree that 99% of us aren't playing on fast enough greens for a natural force to move the ball.  But this would absolutely save a guy from accidentally nudging his ball with a putter during a practice stroke or something similar to that.

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Obviously none of you guys have played golf in Texas during the spring. Sometimes your ball can roll (blown-off) off the green and end up back at the clubhouse.

:wacko:

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@Plaid, "The rules say, play it as it lies."  Besides in Texas you can still putt from there. :)

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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The Saturday Blitz Game that I run weekly is going to adopt this new "Local Rule".  I sent it out to the other members of the "Blitz Board" and have already received a positive reply from 3 of  4  members.

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It's a useless rule either way - same in the fairway in my opinion. Play golf in the fall where they have oak trees? Either watch your shot go sideways after hitting an acorn before the ball, or watch the ball move as you rake acorns with your fingers...

 

If everyone is playing with the amount of honesty that they should, these rules don't mean much.

 

 

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They do provide some consistency if it is adopted by your club.....then there are no "cheaters".

Driver: image.png.6ba1c8a254ad57aa05e527b74c2e04ba.png0311 XF 10.5* w/Project X Cypher 40 gram Senior shaft or 0811 XF 12* w/Evenflo Riptide CB Senior shaft

Fairways:  image.png.80321f01fc46450b6f428c7daf7b3471.png0211 5W & 7W w/ Evenflo Riptide CB  regular shaft and Tour Edge E521 9W w/Fubuki HD50 regular shaft

Hybrid: None in bag at the moment

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Wedges: Edison forged 49*, 53* and 57* wedges with KB PGI Senior shafts(80 grm).

Putter: 33” Evnroll ER6R or  ER2 or Bellum Winmore Model 707,   or Nike Method Core Drone  w/Evnroll Gravity Grip

Bag: Vice cart bag(Black/Lime). 

Ball: Snell MTB Prime X, Maxfli Tour/S/X CG, Titleist Pro V1x or Titleist TruFeel

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Obviously none of you guys have played golf in Texas during the spring. Sometimes your ball can roll (blown-off) off the green and end up back at the clubhouse.

:wacko:

 

 

Please tell me that YOUR ARE NOT Playing in the wind that we are getting today ????

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I like this rule, if you accidentally nudge the ball when putting your putter near it, no need for a penalty...you're not gaining any advantage.....make the rules simple and have them make sense.......if you're not getting an advantage or doing it on purpose, no penalty

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I'm not sure I can handle it...  You just put "USGA" and "smart" in the same sentence.  

 

It's a start; they could do so much more.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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I like this rule, if you accidentally nudge the ball when putting your putter near it, no need for a penalty...you're not gaining any advantage.....make the rules simple and have them make sense.......if you're not getting an advantage or doing it on purpose, no penalty

The rule was pretty simple before too.  If you made the ball move, you get a penalty.

 

To bring a player's "intent" into the matter is actually a complication.  And its still going to be necessary to determine why the ball moved.  If it was the player, AND if it was unintentional, you put it back.  If it was the player, and it was intentional, you put it back and get a penalty.  If it was NOT the player, you play it from its new position.  I don't think that the new rule is necessarily bad, but its not really a simplification either.

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The rule was pretty simple before too.  If you made the ball move, you get a penalty.

 

To bring a player's "intent" into the matter is actually a complication.  And its still going to be necessary to determine why the ball moved.  If it was the player, AND if it was unintentional, you put it back.  If it was the player, and it was intentional, you put it back and get a penalty.  If it was NOT the player, you play it from its new position.  I don't think that the new rule is necessarily bad, but its not really a simplification either.

 

Since golf is a self-policing sport, I think intent can be very important....i thing accidentally touching the ball with your putter when setting up, should be no different than accidentally bumping it off the tee.....just my .02

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Since golf is a self-policing sport, I think intent can be very important....i thing accidentally touching the ball with your putter when setting up, should be no different than accidentally bumping it off the tee.....just my .02.

Is accidentally bumping a ball on the putting green significantly different from accidentally moving a ball in the fairway?  The one in the fairway still gets you a penalty.  The new local rules treats these two cases differently, based merely on the location of the ball.  And the ball on the tee is not "in play" when its bumped off, so it really IS a different circumstance.  Again, I'm not sure the new local rule is bad, but I think it complicates things a little rather than simplifying them.

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maybe a slight difference because you can touch the ball on the putting surface

Driver:    :honma:TR20 10.5*

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Wedges:  :cleveland-small:CBX2 52* 56* 60*

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Say what you will, but..... when my buddies and I play, if someone accidentally moves the ball (fairway, green, bump off the tee) we just put it back and continue like nothing happened, because, well..... in any of those scenarios, there is nothing gained.... or lost. Unless it's a tournament or there is a lot of money involved, who really gives a damn? Just my .02.

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About frigging time

 

 

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No golf today Hula. It's 29 degrees with a light dusting of snow. However.... I will be playing tomorrow when it's sunny and 45. Heh!

My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

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Thanks to the one formerly known as hckymeyer.

 

It's pretty unlikely that the ball is going to move for us. Green speeds are like driving distances. Everyone thinks that they love to putt on greens that run 12 and they are convinced that the greens at their course are that fast. They wouldn't and they don't. Generally our fast greens are in the 10.5 range. The chances of playing in enough wind to move a ball on greens that are running at that speed are extremely slim. For us if the ball moves its going to be our fault.

 

It's a good move for golf because it should prevent embarrassing situations such as last year from occurring. The greens in a US Open are shaved. That's when this becomes a real problem.

 

Actually now that I reflect this is yet another rule tailored to the .01 of golfers. The USGA has to stop worrying about them and instead do its job and make the game simpler and more enjoyable for the other 99.99 percent of the people who play it.

Played at a course in concord NC earlier this season that had the greens at 14. The putting green was running at 14.5. We played an inter club match there, and those numbers came straight from the clubhouse. And that's normal for their course. And let me tell you if you had anything down hill you were screwed. I think generally your right, but there are many courses where the members want them to run fast. Our course will run between 10-12 during the summer, in The winter they are about 9. If they get too fast then the rounds become longer. I am also glad they changed this rule, it was dumb to start with and should have been changed years ago, but then again how often did they run the tour greens at 13 or 14 back in the 60's, 70's, and 80's, it seems to me that as the players got better, the courses needed to add more defense for it.

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Since golf is a self-policing sport, I think intent can be very important....i thing accidentally touching the ball with your putter when setting up, should be no different than accidentally bumping it off the tee.....just my .02

With all due respect it is. The ball on the teeis not yet in play while the one on the green is.

 

With a day to reflect I'm convinced that the USGA has knee jerked again and created a "local" rule as a reaction to what .01 percent of golfers are doing.

 

At least this one won't cost us any money.

 

Way more significant would be the OB/lost ball treated as a lateral water hazzard thing.

 

Of course that has almost no impact on that too .01 percent and so won't change any time soon.

 

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Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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I've thought about it as well, and I see this as complicating the rules, not simplifying them.  Before, any time a player accidentally moved the ball, it was a penalty, pretty dang simple.  Now, the difference in location of just a couple of inches (on the fringe vs. on the green) makes a difference in the rule.  The new rule doesn't simplify procedures either, you still have to make the same determination you always had to make, did the player cause the movement, or was it some other "natural" cause.  You still replace the ball in its original position if the player moved it, but use the new position if nature moved it.  I really don't think this needed to be changed.

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I'm with Dave on this one -

 

The Dustin Johnson issue was not a rules issue, it was an enforcement issue.  Lacking visible evidence to the contrary once the player said that he did not cause the ball to move it was over plain and simple.  The USGA inserted itself into a situation where it should have remained silent.  At most it should have sent an IPad along with the official to look at it with Dustin and rule on the spot. 

 

Now we have another rule that needs to be interpreted and for whom?  It's not for those of us on this forum or anyone else I can guarantee that. 

I respect Kor A Dor and have no doubt the greens were fast on that course - I'm sorry to say that I don't trust what was said in the clubhouse.  It's in their best interest to say its 13 or 14 because it makes those playing feel cool.  The super in charge of Green speeds for the PGA at Whistling was a member at my church in Sheboygan.  He was under strict orders to keep the greens at 13.  His comment was that you never saw or experienced anything like that in your life.  I grew up in the Northeast around all the fancy dan country clubs there several of whom hosted tour events and a few USGA events (senior, women's and US Ams).  Those greens could get incredibly fast but they never approached 14. 

 

Regardless that's one place and good for them - most greens that we think are 12 are really 9.5 or 10. We don't experience what greens are like in the US Open or we'd walk off the course, quit and never come back.

 

To me the rule is pandering and frankly if I hit the ball while its in play it should be a penalty.  If the wind or an animal or an earthquake or some other outside force causes it to move it shouldn't be a penalty.  That's simple enough and that's what the current rule says.

 

Like most guys here when I'm playing a casual round I really don't care what happens or what a guy does or does not penalize himself for - I'm playing for fun, not to fight about the rules.  I log in here to fight about the rules. :) 

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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An interesting read, from 1960, Richard Tufts wrote an article in the USGA Journal titled "Is Golf Getting Soft?"

http://gsrpdf.lib.msu.edu/ticpdf.py?file=/1960s/1960/601112.pdf

Apparently golf rules  have been getting more lenient for a long time.

 

At around the same time, Mr. Tufts wrote "The Principles Behind the Rules of Golf".  You can get a modernized version at:

https://www.usgapublications.com/products/principles-behind-the-rules-of-golf-paperback-2016-edition?variant=25702107654

Its an interesting read for those who would like to understand a bit more about the rules.

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:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

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:Sub70: 5-wood

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Reston, Virginia

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I guess I'm not understanding how this is more confusing.  If you're ball is on the green and you cause it to move just put it back.  No harm no foul.  If you didn't cause it to move and it moves then play it where it lies.  No harm no foul.

 

How is this a bad thing again?

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I guess I'm not understanding how this is more confusing.  If you're ball is on the green and you cause it to move just put it back.  No harm no foul.  If you didn't cause it to move and it moves then play it where it lies.  No harm no foul.

 

How is this a bad thing again?

Its not more confusing, but its not LESS confusing either.  You still have to make exactly the same determination, the cause of the movement, that you had to make before. You still move the ball back to its original position if it was accidentally moved by the player, just as you did under the old rule.   And by creating two different results for a ball moved accidentally, based on where the ball is located, they have ADDED to the number of rules, not simplified them.

 

As has been said before, most of us will never have the issue come up, unless we do something boneheaded like kick our own golf ball.  I'm sorry, but if you're boneheaded, you deserve a penalty.  This rule seems to me to be designed to give the rules officials for televised professional golf an easy out from a difficult situation.  If the movement of the ball is minor, and there's no penalty involved no matter what caused the movement, there's very little pressure to get things absolutely right.

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:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

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:Sub70: 5-wood

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Reston, Virginia

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Should be pretty simple to tell if your ball is on the green though. All they was eliminate the penalty if it's on the green

 

 

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But there was no penalty in the first place if the golfer didnt cause the ball to move.

 

I don't see how this rule helps the game at a competitive level.

 

 

 

Sent from my VS986 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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But there was no penalty in the first place if the golfer didnt cause the ball to move.

 

I don't see how this rule helps the game at a competitive level.

 

 

 

Sent from my VS986 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

But there was if it was an accident.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Driver: :taylormade-small: SLDR w/ Fujikura Ventus Black

3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

5w: :cleveland-small: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Hybrid: :cleveland-small: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black

Irons: :cleveland-small: 5i - gap Launcher CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 54 CBX & 58 Zipcore w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Putter: :odyssey-small: Red 7s

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