GolfSpy T, on 17 May 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:
Rick - not to keep beating on you, but are you sure that's how you do it? I'm wondering if you've had this verified by Trackman or Flightscope, etc.. This is more of a curiosity for me as the more I learn about ball flight physics the more I question some of what I've been told over the years. Joe Mayo (from the video) suggests that ball flight with the driver is determined 90% by the face angle. So theoretically hitting a ball that truly starts right of the target line that then draws left should actually be easier to accomplish with a slightly open face and an inside to out path than it would be by trying to close the face before (or during) impact.
Again...since having witnessed first hand (video & other analysis tools) that what I think I'm doing and what I'm actually doing are very different things, this is a point of curiosity for me (as opposed to me trying to tell you wrong about how you think you personally hit a draw).
I don't think we've strayed too far off topic. Spin is spin. Of course, what I think is true is backspin doesn't counteract sidespin, a flatter axis does.
More loosely related, this relatively simple concept of a spin access makes it much easier to understand why uphill and downhill lies behave the way they do.
With the irons, I have only been able to hit draws and hooks and bigger hooks, and "Elmer Fing Large" hooks, until I changed shafts to the X100s and the C Tapers XS. I have has some luck recently with fades. Tee shots with irons before that were basically a prayer of how far left I wanted it to go. Usually praying that it stayed inside the tree line.
But I am possitive that for the last couple of years before EVERY tee shot with driver, fairway metal, or hybrid, and the past couple of weeks with irons. I deside if I want a fade or a draw. I decide where I want to start the ball and where I want it to end. I pick one side or the other of the tee box, rarely picking the middle. Then if I am going to hit a draw I move the ball ball back in my stance, inside the shirt logo, and move my trail foot back 4 to 6 inches, and take a practice swing and focus on turning my hands over, I think about if I were driving the cart and want to turn left I would turn the steering wheel to the left. The harder I want the ball to turn the further back in my stance I put the ball and the harder I "turn the steering wheel". As far as the swing, I do not really adjust the swing, because I have worked hard to have an inside to out swing. And not come over the top. I still do that occassionally and do pull the ball but usually no more than once a round, and often not even that. I am not the longest driver in the world but I am almost always in the fairway. I also try to focus on hitting the ball a half an inch towards the toe of the driver in the center of the face.
To hit a fade, I move the ball up further in my stance and outside the shirt logo. I move my right foot back about 4 inches, and focus on holding off my finish. While with a draw, I will finsh with the club pointing down over my left shoulder, but with a fade I will finish with the club pointed up.
I have tried to focus on swinging out to in with a fade and that causes me to double cross myself and hit a pull hook into double bogeyland.
I also decide if I want to hit it high or low. This is simply a matter of adjusting my spine and thus shoulder angle. A low shot, I have more level shoulders and a high shot I have my left shoulder higher.
Have I varified this with a Trackman or something, NO. I was shocked when the SkyCaddie guy showed up and mapped the course, no one will come here with one of those. I can hear the guys at the club now, "I hope you got enough wire to hook to the ball, cause I'm a gonna hit it a fur piece."
(I hope you read that with the proper redneck accent.)
As I have stated in other post, after the drive to the closest Trackman, and I do not think it is a Trackman, I never have my best swing so I have not even thought about it. Besides, for the same reason I have avoided looking at the video you posted until after I write this, it really does not matter what the club and ball are actually doing. I make these changes and the ball flies the way I want it to.
I have also worked with some friends and had them make the changes in set up and they also can now move the ball around. One guy went from a 106 to 83 in two weeks just because he stopped hitting his drives into the woods, OB or water. But he does not stop to think about every shot and now is reverting back to his old ways. (thank goodness because he was killing me with the bets.)
We have not strayed too far off topic now, because the topic has evolved to this. But in my first statement which did in fact change the direction of the topic.
Uphill and downhill have an effect on the shoulder level realive to the flight path. In order to make proper contact, it is advised that you match your shoulder level, spine ange, to the slope of the ground. This should have little effect on side spin, because that is determined by face angle. However, downhill will deloft the club, and uphill will add loft to the club. Yesterday I had a sever downhill lie 50 yards from the green and a pond between me and the green. I had to swing down the hill to hit the ball. I laid my 60 degree wedge against the slope and could tell that I was not going to have enough loft to clear the other bank, so I lined up and told the guys that I had dirt on my ball that I thought would make it not roll to the hole so I was going to wash it before I got to the green. I took a full swing with the 60 it skipped off the water twice and hit the upslope and bounce up on the green and rolled 8 feet from the hole.
I knew that the ball would be spinning so hard that it would skip off the water. Well, I hoped that it would skip off the water.
Sidehill has a greater affect on the left or right spin of the ball.