[revkev]

Thanks guys - as Richard knows by now when it comes to irons its give me simple or give me death - I don't want to struggle with it, I don't want to fight with it, I have too little time to play golf to worry about having to hit irons a couple of times a week so that I can use a blade or other type of player's iron. Used to drive my pro crazy but he also got it - my schedule can get very busy and unpredictable.

I've had sets of players irons both blades and MB's - I get why guys love them, something about the beauty of the ball flight and feel when you've hit them well that is heavenly. For that matter the Ping Eye 2 was a players iron - In fact they were the run away number one iron on tour in their day.

I'm really leaning towards the 825's but will see what comes of my fitting later this week - I sure will continue to read this thread between now and then - A little birdie told me that the 825's will be in stores this week.

[Super Tuna]

revkev, on 10 September 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

A little birdie told me that the 825's will be in stores this week.

Should be today for the general US release. All the fitting carts at the larger locations should have all the new head and shaft options as well.

[revkev]

Super Tuna, on 10 September 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

Should be today for the general US release. All the fitting carts at the larger locations should have all the new head and shaft options as well.

Is that perfect timing for me or what! Wow! This keeps getting better every day.

[R.P. Jacobs II]

Ice, on 10 September 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

20 HC buys the H4 because he reads they are a forgiving players iron. He has success with them. He thinks he's good now so he buys the MP-65s in 2 years.

You're exactly right..That's my point..The MP line has never manufactured an iron for the 15-20 hdcp, unless they chose to hit a MB(MP-68 or 69) or MCB(MP-63 or 59) or pocket cavity(MP-53), which was as forgiving as Mizuno got in the MP line...If you wanted "forgiveness," you went with the MX and present JPX line, which Charles Howell III did when he bagged the 800 Pros prior to his present set(Combo, 825s & 59s)...

The times, they are a changin...lol...

Have a good one...


Fairways & Greens 4ever...

[RoverRick]

The Mizuno web site changed today to have the H4, H64 and the 825's listed on it. Last night it did not.

[revkev]

Cool - I'm going for a look see.

[RoverRick]

I have the MP62 and a couple of MP FLI HI, the H4 is close to a complete line of FLI HI's and unlike Richard who was appauled at the idea, I would bag the H4's. I love the FLI HI and to me they are stupid easy to hit. The 4 iron is my go to club.

[R.P. Jacobs II]

RoverRick, on 10 September 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

I have the MP62 and a couple of MP FLI HI, the H4 is close to a complete line of FLI HI's and unlike Richard who was appauled at the idea, I would bag the H4's. I love the FLI HI and to me they are stupid easy to hit. The 4 iron is my go to club.

Rick, I like the iron, I just don't like it in the MP line...As I said above, there's no doubt that it's a great iron, cuz that's what Mizuno makes...The FLI HIs are the best "long iron "substitute" iron that I've ever hit...I would definitely look at an H4 for a 3i substitute, though I don't think that you can buy them like that, can you?...

The 3 is my "go to" at one course that I play & it saves me in more ways than just from 215yds away...I thought about keeping it in full-time, though I need my 18.5* hybrid, so I might dump my 3FM...

My problem is the line that they positioned it in, from a business standpoint, not a golf or "snob" standpoint..I'm the one who was looking up the yeti as though it were a "real" animal so I hardly have anything to be snobby about..lol..


Fairways & Greens 4ever...

[Super Tuna]

RoverRick, on 10 September 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

I have the MP62 and a couple of MP FLI HI, the H4 is close to a complete line of FLI HI's and unlike Richard who was appauled at the idea, I would bag the H4's. I love the FLI HI and to me they are stupid easy to hit. The 4 iron is my go to club.

I can see that but I also think it's an entirely different thing when it's a fli hi 6 iron, not a 4.

R.P. Jacobs II, on 10 September 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

Rick, I like the iron, I just don't like it in the MP line

I can see that. More of a terminology issue rather then a exsistance one. A battle I constantly fight with my project sales guy.

[R.P. Jacobs II]

I've been thinking about this and my problem is one that
I have with clients all of the time..It has to do with "focus"..
When a prospect, customer or client thinks of you, what do you do or what do you stand for(this is from the customer's viewpoint, not company's)?..

5 years ago, for Mizuno, when you were asked what the MP line stood for, you could answer "players' blades(both MB & MCB)...If you were a double digit hdcp, it's not that you couldn't swing an MP iron, you'd just better have a damn consistently repeatable swing...

Now, what's the MP line stand for?...The fact that they have an iron designed for a double digit capper says it all...Like I said, it's like Mercedes makin an "entry level" luxury car..What the hell is that?...Probably the same thing as en "entry level" players iron...

Hell, I sound like my granddad when he used to talk about playin football with a leather helmet & no face masks..lol...

Fairways & Greens 4ever.....

[RoverRick]

R.P. Jacobs II, on 10 September 2012 - 04:45 PM, said:

The FLI HIs are the best "long iron "substitute" iron that I've ever hit...I would definitely look at an H4 for a 3i substitute, though I don't think that yo can buy them like that, can you?...

The 3 is my "go to" at one course that I play & it saves me in more ways than just from 215yds away...I thought about keeping it in full-time, though I need my 18.5* hybrid, so I might dump my 3FM...

My problem is the line that they positioned it in, from a business standpoint, not a golf or "snob" standpoint..I'm the one who was looking up the yeti as though it were a "real" animal so I hardly have anything to be snobby about..lol..


Fairways & Greens 4ever...

I think you can substitute the H4 long irons for the long irons when ordering from Mizuno. Just as you could with the FLI HI.


I have the 2 iron out of the lineup right now because I can do everything it does plus a higher ball flight with the hybrid. The true advantage of the 2 iron is ego. But in all honesty when I had to hit a good shot or have a high risk of a penalty stroke, I hit the 4 iron or laid up instead of grabbing the 2 iron. It was at that point I decided to go with the 19* hybrid instead. Having the island green on 18 has made that change in the bag. I was standing in the 18th fairway needing to hit the ball 180 yards into a 20 mph wind when I thought I might not get there with the 4 iron and the 2 iron that I choke down on probably will not hold the green so it is time for a bag change.

[RoverRick]

Super Tuna, on 10 September 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

I can see that but I also think it's an entirely different thing when it's a fli hi 6 iron, not a 4.

I would have to hit them first of course. I have my Fli Hi on C Taper shafts and I do not see any particularly high ball flight when compared to the 5 iron or any other iron. It is just a name. It is very easy to hit. If I were RevKev or one of the other winners I would definately give these a fair look, I would probably end up with the MP64's but I might well end up with the H4's. However, I do not expect to change irons any time soon. I am not sure I could find any better ones. I am not spending my money on new ones when the old ones are this good.

[R.P. Jacobs II]

RoverRick, on 10 September 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

I would have to hit them first of course. I have my Fli Hi on C Taper shafts and I do not see any particularly high ball flight when compared to the 5 iron or any other iron. It is just a name. It is very easy to hit. If I were RevKev or one of the other winners I would definately give these a fair look, I would probably end up with the MP64's but I might well end up with the H4's. However, I do not expect to change irons any time soon. I am not sure I could find any better ones. I am not spending my money on new ones when the old ones are this good.

Dude, you got a great set of irons...If you offered me a brand new set right now of the 62s, 63s or 64s, I'd take the 62s every day!..Nothing against the others, cuz I owned the 63s(Diamond Cut) & played em, however I liked the cut of the 62s(Dual Cut) better...

IMHO, they have best feel and the best lines for my eyes...


Fairways & Greens 4ever....

[revkev]

This is more fun than when I was serving in a church in Indiana and brought up the change to class basketball - I could deflect any conversation with that move.

I have to say that I did not interpret Richard's comments vis a vie the H4 as derogatory towards the club - he was simply saying he doesn't believe they belong in the MP category - that makes sense to me.

More important from my perspective are RR's comments about the club itself - The Nicklaus Irons that I play are a similar concept and they've served me well the last 10 years - I've shot countless rounds under par with those irons including my all time low of a 66. The Nicklaus Irons that I have are not Mizuno - I hear Mizuno and I think player's club certainly but I also think, quality - why can't a middle handicapper have a quality club that's build to suit his game? I get the postioning business - we are struggling with our church and school to make sure that we are postioned, that people know whom we are and what we stand for, what we do well and what we are content to let others do.

I think that Mizuno is paralying its reputation for quality so that it can grab a bit more of the iron market share. I hope they succeed mightily.

I will certainly give the H4's a shot.

Great conversation! Very beneficial for me - I really appreciate it. Thanks

[RoverRick]

revkev, on 10 September 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

This is more fun than when I was serving in a church in Indiana and brought up the change to class basketball - I could deflect any conversation with that move.

I have to say that I did not interpret Richard's comments vis a vie the H4 as derogatory towards the club - he was simply saying he doesn't believe they belong in the MP category - that makes sense to me.

More important from my perspective are RR's comments about the club itself - The Nicklaus Irons that I play are a similar concept and they've served me well the last 10 years - I've shot countless rounds under par with those irons including my all time low of a 66. The Nicklaus Irons that I have are not Mizuno - I hear Mizuno and I think player's club certainly but I also think, quality - why can't a middle handicapper have a quality club that's build to suit his game? I get the postioning business - we are struggling with our church and school to make sure that we are postioned, that people know whom we are and what we stand for, what we do well and what we are content to let others do.

I think that Mizuno is paralying its reputation for quality so that it can grab a bit more of the iron market share. I hope they succeed mightily.

I will certainly give the H4's a shot.

Great conversation! Very beneficial for me - I really appreciate it. Thanks

Kev,

Since we are talking about you and your forthcoming windfall, I will use that as an example. I have tried and even kept detailed notes about GI vs MB . By MB musclebacks I am talking specifically the MP62's. I even used the same shafts. The exact same shafts with different heads.

The GI irons, while they are much more forgiving, they are designed for people who can not launch the ball high enough. Also, it was my experience, that I did not hit more GIR with GI irons than MB. All shots with the GI irons felt the same and I would have to wait until the ball eventually landed before I could tell if I hit it well or not. The MB I knew immediately if I hit the ball well. However, it was not like dribbled the ball 20 feet down the fairway. A typical poor hit for me will be low on the face, the ball will fly lower than normal but shorter than normal and roll. So I will end up about in the same place with both irons. The difference it one will be real low and the other will be real high. Ok, both tend to be to the left also. Bottom line is that the GI clubs do not magically find the green any more than the MB.

The real diffence was on the next shot. With MBs in the bag, I have 6 or 7 clubs I can use to chip or pitch with. 7-9 irons and however many wedges. With the GI irons, I could not develop the feel that I wanted with then so only had my gap, sand, and lob wedge to use. Chipping with the GI irons was inconsistant.

Now, the other issue is, when that head get on a shaft much more than 35 inches away it gets small. And when you have to hit over water or something with a long iron well, you know the drill. This is why I have a FLI HI 4 iron.

So now we come specifically to you. Let's face it, you will probably never again have the opportunity to get a brand new set of irons custom built for you the month that they come out. So you really only have three choices. The MP64, the JPX825, and the MP H4. Why settle for last years stuff?

Based solely on what I read on the MIzuno web site, and knowing you are about the same handicap as me. I think you will find that the MP64 to be the papa bear irons. Too hard. Yeah they are great and forgiving for MB irons but bring your "A" game when you have to hit that 4 iron across the pond. The JPX825 to be the mama bear irons. Too soft. These are designed to be super forgiving, but also designed to launch the ball high.

However, the MP H4 may be the baby bear irons. Just right. They are actually a combo set and represent the first true combo set Mizuno has offered. Look at the picture below. The scoring irons are still great for around the green but the others are designed with great GI attributes with out the added ultrahigh launch characteristics. These were the ones that I would be looking at if I would have berated and cajoled my perishioner into voting for me. But you get to hit them first.