Jump to content

Our Sponsors

Photo

Does a new putter company need to have an Anser?


  • Please log in to reply
50 replies to this topic

#1 Duke

Duke

    SPY ANALYST

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 68 posts

Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:04 AM

This has been a question that my partner and I have been ducking, dodging, making up our own answers to, and otherwise completely avoiding. However, from all of the forum trolling I've done over the past three years of product development I've come to the conclusion that the Anser is the "answer", at least initially. We have a design that would definitely fall within the Anser paradigm, but have avoided pursuing it due to one of the immutable laws of branding: Be First.
This doesn't seem to apply to the putter industry. Any and all thoughts on this subject are welcome. The responses we received from our prior post completely shaped our first market ready design, so we are incredibly appreciative of all the feedback we receive at MGS. You guys and gals rock.
Tim

#2 Walkerjames

Walkerjames

    GRANDMASTER SPY

  • Members

  • 1,430 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles
  • Handicap:15

Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:38 AM

I think that the Anser is a great place for a putter company to start it seams to be one of the most popular putter models. I think it hard to take a putter company seriously when they start with some off the wall putter that may work great but looks weird.
Just my thoughts.
MY BAG-
Driver- Taylormade SLDR 12* (Speeder 7.2vc tour spec S)
3 Wood- Taylormade R11(bimatrix prototype S)
3 Hybrid- Ping I20(stock S)
Irons-Taylormade Tour Perferred MC ( C Taper S)
Wedges- 50, 54, and 58 SCOR4161( KBS)
Putter-Taylormade Ghost Corza.

All Left Handed!

#3 RookieBlue7

RookieBlue7

    AGENT NAME: HUNTINGTON

  • Members

  • 3,894 posts
  • LocationEuharlee, GA
  • Handicap:10

Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:49 AM

The Anser headshape is the gold standard. No company that's been successful has done it without the most widely used headshape there is, whether having small deviations to the design or not. The Anser shape is to golf what ketchup and mustard is to a hotdog. You're not going to find many people that done like some of that flavor. Sure, people own mallets and such, but it all begins at the Anser for nearly every golfer.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade Tour Issue Superfast 2.0 LCG w/ USPG Black Ops Pearl X 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade SLDR TS 13* with Aldila NV 75X
3 Hybrid: Adams Super LSP 18* (bent to 17*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams Super LSP 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
5-7I : Tour Issued Adams CB2 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour issue S400 hardstepped 1x
8-GW: Tour Issued Adams CB1 w/ Dynamic Gold S400 hardstepped 1x

SW: 56* Cleveland CG12 (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Cleveland CG12 (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
Putter: Mannkrafted Widebody Rattler 34", 71* lie, 4* loft

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.


#4 Matt Saternus

Matt Saternus

    AGENT NAME: FAIRHAVEN

  • Members
  • 5,135 posts
  • LocationIllinois

Posted 15 January 2013 - 03:17 AM

I imagine it's possible to be successful without an Anser, but I think it's tougher. I think doing an Anser opens a lot of doors to you (because lots of people like it) while giving you an opportunity to show that you can do the little things that separate top shelf from middle of the pack.

My advice, if I were giving some, would be to do an Anser if you can do it really well: one or two subtle unique touches and really high end.

Oh, and no sight line. :D

Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus


#5 GolfSpy Dave

GolfSpy Dave

    MYGOLFSPY (STAFF)

  • MYGOLFSPY (STAFF)

  • 5,945 posts
  • LocationSacramento, CA

Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:19 AM

I imagine it's possible to be successful without an Anser, but I think it's tougher. I think doing an Anser opens a lot of doors to you (because lots of people like it) while giving you an opportunity to show that you can do the little things that separate top shelf from middle of the pack.

My advice, if I were giving some, would be to do an Anser if you can do it really well: one or two subtle unique touches and really high end.

Oh, and no sight line. :D

Totally agree with Matt. The Anser head makes you the money that funds the other head shapes until they become the money makers. Think Newport---->Futura
Volvo Intorqueo

All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @golfspy_dave

If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool...

#6 Tyk

Tyk

    GRANDMASTER SPY

  • Members

  • 1,447 posts
  • LocationKansas City Area
  • Handicap:6

Posted 15 January 2013 - 05:14 AM

It sure seems like every company has one or more variations of the Anser style. While it seems people expect it and obviously want it, it's also a completely packed category and I'd think it would be pretty difficult to really differentiate yourself with that design.

For me personally it carries no weight as I haven't gamed an Anser style in 10 years and am probably unlikely to again. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate a well crafted Anser, but it doesn't really matter how pretty it is, I'm still not going to buy it.

Now a nice compact center shafted mallet, that gets my attention and is an underserved market. I think you should focus on those! :P

Ping I20 8.5* - Aldila NV 65g S
Adams XTD Super Hybrid 15* - Stock Fubuki S
Adams DHY 21* - Stock Matrix Ozik White Tie S
Mizuno MP58 4-8 Irons - Fujikura MCI 100 S
SCOR 42,46,50,54,58* - SCOR/KBS Genius S
STX Robert Ingman Envision TR 35", Iomic grip


#7 RoverRick

RoverRick

    AGENT NAME: FAIRHAVEN

  • Members

  • 5,264 posts
  • LocationNortheast Texas
  • Handicap:2

Posted 15 January 2013 - 05:18 AM

This has been a question that my partner and I have been ducking, dodging, making up our own answers to, and otherwise completely avoiding. However, from all of the forum trolling I've done over the past three years of product development I've come to the conclusion that the Anser is the "answer", at least initially. We have a design that would definitely fall within the Anser paradigm, but have avoided pursuing it due to one of the immutable laws of branding: Be First.
This doesn't seem to apply to the putter industry. Any and all thoughts on this subject are welcome. The responses we received from our prior post completely shaped our first market ready design, so we are incredibly appreciative of all the feedback we receive at MGS. You guys and gals rock.
Tim


Does a chip company have to have a potato chip, a tortilla chip and cheese flavored chip? Only if you want to sell them. The thing about putters is that it does not necessarily have to be a different design as far as function is concerned. Certainly, if an Anser fits your swing you need to stick with it. Even if the putter goes sour on you, sometimes you need one in solid white. Or different machining. The fact that it is just like a Ping, Scotty or Betti have nothing to do with it. A different material or color or scrolling is enough to make it sell.

#8 Badgergolfer

Badgergolfer

    TOP-SECRET AGENT

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 635 posts
  • LocationColumbus, OH
  • Handicap:20

Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:51 AM

I dont think you can be successful as a company without a version of the Anser. Its still the most popular and most successful putter design ever and a company would be missing out on the big chunk of the market by not offering one.
Whats in my Sun Mountain C130 cart bag:
Woods: Taylormade Jetspeed 10.5*, Taylormade Jetspeed 15*, Taylormade SLDR 18*
Irons: Taylormade Burner 2.0 HP 4-PW
Wedges: Taylormade TP 50*, Mizuno JPX 54-10 and MP-T4 58-10
Putter: Taylormade White Smoke Big Fontana
Ball: Taylormade Project (A)

#9 GolfSpy T

GolfSpy T

    MYGOLFSPY (STAFF)

  • Administrators
  • 2,508 posts
  • LocationUpstate, NY

Posted 15 January 2013 - 03:25 PM

Nothing is absolute. So no...you don't necessarily need to offer an Anser, but it largely depends on who you want to be as a company when you grow up.

If your goal is to sell a lot of putters, then yeah you probably need an Anser, and maybe an 8802, and perhaps even a #9. The reason everybody offers them, is because that's what everyone buys. Companies have been successful with other shapes (2-ball, futura, etc.), but unless you're a true niche company (which usually means 1 or 2 models only), your bread is buttered with the classics.

I can promise you that when I'm in Orlando next week I'll see at least 1/2 dozen (probably more) putter companies trying to make it without an Anser. Most won't be back next year. A couple (Redemption Golf springs to mind) with have some success (enough to come back for the next show). Very few, however, will have any real impact.

I'm not the putter ho that a lot of these guys are, but really the only name that springs to mind as a company who has made it (and certainly not a Cameron/Bettinardi/Odyssey/Rife-once-upon-a-time level) is Axis1.

So short answer...if you want the be the next Axis1, then no...you don't need an Anser. If you want to be anybody else, you probably do.
MyGolfSpy is only major golf site that refuses advertising from large golf companies. With your support we can keep it that way. Donate Today

Follow Me on Twitter: @GolfSpyT

Subscribe to the MyGolfSpy Newsletter



#10 Duke

Duke

    SPY ANALYST

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 68 posts

Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:45 PM

All salient advise. Once again, much appreciated.

#11 nutz4putters

nutz4putters

    BRAND NEW SPY

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 16 posts
  • Handicap:12

Posted 19 January 2013 - 04:25 AM

What a great question.

I don't know the 'correct answer' but in all honestly - it's a design that sells! Why wouldn't you want an anser style in your stable?

Is it the be-all end-all design? Nope. But it's a solid starting point.

#12 R.P. Jacobs II

R.P. Jacobs II

    AGENT NAME: FAIRHAVEN

  • Members

  • 7,045 posts
  • LocationThe Burgh
  • Handicap:2

Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:24 AM

This has been a question that my partner and I have been ducking, dodging, making up our own answers to, and otherwise completely avoiding. However, from all of the forum trolling I've done over the past three years of product development I've come to the conclusion that the Anser is the "answer", at least initially. We have a design that would definitely fall within the Anser paradigm, but have avoided pursuing it due to one of the immutable laws of branding: Be First.
This doesn't seem to apply to the putter industry. Any and all thoughts on this subject are welcome. The responses we received from our prior post completely shaped our first market ready design, so we are incredibly appreciative of all the feedback we receive at MGS. You guys and gals rock.
Tim

HaHa, I am very familiar with Jack Trout & Al Ries's laws, along with all of their books, which I would very strongly recommend to any business owner/executive, small or large. Most of the business books out there are a lot like the golf instruction books out there, most are full of sh*t. Not Ries & Trout. Only ones that I use with clients.

That being said, do not take their laws outa context or to the extreme. Yes you'd like to be first, yet in today's world, regardless of the industry or product or service, what are the odds of you, I or anyone being first to market with a viable "new" product/service? HaHa, not likely.

So, just because you weren't first, doesn't mean that you shouldn't produce an Answer style putter. I mean, Scotty's done ok, and he's the ultimate "copycat," lol.

No, though I do not have clients in the golf equipment industry, I would definitely think that you would have to have a blade design, and as far as heal/toe weighted designs go, well, the Anser is the most widely used. I mean, you can get feedback and vary the lines so as to make it "your own," though I wouldn't get too caught up in making it "your own" from a design stand point as I would from a customization, quality and feel stand point. I mean, at the end of the day, "give em what they want."

Regarding designs, most have been done already, so I'm not saying that you can't come up with you own unique design ot twist to a classic design, it's just that unless you have a technologically unique putter, people tend to stay with the tried & true, not to mention designs that they've had success with.

Which sorta contradicts what I feel is their most important law: Differentiation.

Quality is not a differenciating factor. Price is not a differenciating factor.

In the equipment segment of the industry, it is very, very difficult to come up with a differenciating feature(or in sales lingo, "A Unique Selling Proposition," USP) to set oneself apart from your competitors. So, unforunately, you have to go down a path that was traversed by someone before you. You might as well increase your odds of success by using a successful model(path), be it business model-wise(say Scotty or more recently & realistically, Carnahan Golf) or product wise(say offering a heel-toe weighted blade, ala the Anser & a semi-mallet). That's not to say that you can't add your own personal takes to the design, though I would be careful, probably looking at Scotty's different variations of the Newport, lines wise(also the Monterey).

Well, I don't know if I gave ya anything to think about, though I will say, that you indeed picked the best strategy guys in the business to read & follow, however the business world, regardless of industry or market segment, is not static & does not exist in a vaccum, so if you're taking the Law of Being First literally, I'll save you and your partner the time & money now, pack it in. Seriously, save your time, money & emotions & move one.

I mean, you've spent three years, contemplating this question/issue? Really?

Yes, you'd like to be first, however a lot of designers before you, and I'm guessin that a few more after you, will make a nice buck selling an Anser style putter or a variation there of.

Instead of trolling forums(where ya can get great feedback, however 36 months of trolling to determine that an Anser style design would be your top selling putter seems a bit extreme, lol, doncha think?), get a design put together & move forward, or find another business, and for heaven's sake, don't waste three years of your time(though actually only about 2 1/2 of it was wasted).

Hell, you coulda contacted T or X and discussed this issue with them. I'm dead-ass serious. If I was going to get into the club manufactucturing business(regardless of club), contacting those two would be my first move. And T's advice to you above? It should be worth more to you than anything that you've gotten from Ries or Trout. And I used their books in my grad school Strategy classes, so that tells ya how much that I think of them. But I'd sit down with T &/or X if they would sit with me. I don't care where the hell I had to fly to or what the cost. Oh yea, My second move would be to contact Chris Carnahan.

But that's me.

Well, I wish ya the Very Best in your journey

Regards,
Richard


Fairways & Greens 4ever
:mizuno-small:

What's Inside My Sun Mountain H2N0 Stand Bag:

-TMaG RBZ ST 2 Tour(Breast Cancer Pink Head by WalkerJames) 10.5*, Graphite Design Tour AD 9003 S(74gr)

-Adams Speedline XTD Super LS VST 3FM(Breast Cancer Fill) 15*, RT Tech Midas S(88gr)

-Adams Idea XTD Super LS VST Hybrid 19*, Fubuki AX 350

-Mizzy MP-68(4i-8i),TT DG TI S400, +1/2", +2*

-SCOR 43*,47*,51*,55*,59*, Genious 12 Firm +,  +1/2"

-Scotty Studio Select Fastback Custom 1.5, 35", 350gr HW(Not from the shop, notta Tour Issue/Circle T, just a poor ass retail model B))-Breast Cancer Fill

-Golf Pride Decade Multi-Compound Cord, Mizzy Blue/Black

-Stones Tour B330-S

-Shoes: A bunch, depends on my slacks, lol
__________________________________

 

I Am A Very Kind, Compassionate & Understanding Man......

 

Until It Is Time To Cease Being Kind, Compassionate & Understanding....

 

RP Jacobs II

 


#13 R.P. Jacobs II

R.P. Jacobs II

    AGENT NAME: FAIRHAVEN

  • Members

  • 7,045 posts
  • LocationThe Burgh
  • Handicap:2

Posted 21 January 2013 - 01:01 AM

The Anser headshape is the gold standard. No company that's been successful has done it without the most widely used headshape there is, whether having small deviations to the design or not. The Anser shape is to golf what ketchup and mustard is to a hotdog.

THIS!!!

It shouldn't take three years to realize and accept RB's first & second sentence. I'm not being a smart ass by posting this though if you/your partner are golfers and have been around the game any length of time, regardless of hdcp, this should have been in your heads the first time that you two sat down at that table to discuss this venture and put it on paper.

The fact that it wasn't and that it's taken you three years to come to the conclusion that Rookie came to probably walkin out to his car or after he put the little one to bed would give me pause as to your business & strategic accum.

As I said, you picked the best to follow(Trout & Ries), and I would recommend every one of their books, both together and as solo authors/strategists, and though I'm not going to get into it here, however you've missed a few of their key beliefs and strategic thoughts from other books, that help one work around the fact that they're not first or truly different.

Whether it's golf or business, some of it can be taught, however to get to scratch or to be that 2% of start-up businesses that reach $1,000,000 in sales or get aquired so that you & your partner can float off into a multi-million dollar retirement, well, those are the skills that pros, books and grad school can't teach ya.

You either got 'em or ya don't

Only you & your partner can answer that question.

My Best,
Richard


Fairways & Greens 4ever
:mizuno-small:

What's Inside My Sun Mountain H2N0 Stand Bag:

-TMaG RBZ ST 2 Tour(Breast Cancer Pink Head by WalkerJames) 10.5*, Graphite Design Tour AD 9003 S(74gr)

-Adams Speedline XTD Super LS VST 3FM(Breast Cancer Fill) 15*, RT Tech Midas S(88gr)

-Adams Idea XTD Super LS VST Hybrid 19*, Fubuki AX 350

-Mizzy MP-68(4i-8i),TT DG TI S400, +1/2", +2*

-SCOR 43*,47*,51*,55*,59*, Genious 12 Firm +,  +1/2"

-Scotty Studio Select Fastback Custom 1.5, 35", 350gr HW(Not from the shop, notta Tour Issue/Circle T, just a poor ass retail model B))-Breast Cancer Fill

-Golf Pride Decade Multi-Compound Cord, Mizzy Blue/Black

-Stones Tour B330-S

-Shoes: A bunch, depends on my slacks, lol
__________________________________

 

I Am A Very Kind, Compassionate & Understanding Man......

 

Until It Is Time To Cease Being Kind, Compassionate & Understanding....

 

RP Jacobs II

 


#14 Duke

Duke

    SPY ANALYST

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 68 posts

Posted 21 January 2013 - 06:29 PM

THIS!!!

It shouldn't take three years to realize and accept RB's first & second sentence. I'm not being a smart ass by posting this though if you/your partner are golfers and have been around the game any length of time, regardless of hdcp, this should have been in your heads the first time that you two sat down at that table to discuss this venture and put it on paper.

The fact that it wasn't and that it's taken you three years to come to the conclusion that Rookie came to probably walkin out to his car or after he put the little one to bed would give me pause as to your business & strategic accum.

As I said, you picked the best to follow(Trout & Ries), and I would recommend every one of their books, both together and as solo authors/strategists, and though I'm not going to get into it here, however you've missed a few of their key beliefs and strategic thoughts from other books, that help one work around the fact that they're not first or truly different.

Whether it's golf or business, some of it can be taught, however to get to scratch or to be that 2% of start-up businesses that reach $1,000,000 in sales or get aquired so that you & your partner can float off into a multi-million dollar retirement, well, those are the skills that pros, books and grad school can't teach ya.

You either got 'em or ya don't

Only you & your partner can answer that question.

My Best,
Richard


Fairways & Greens 4ever
:mizuno-small:

Thank you very much, Richard. I do appreciate your insight.
Just to clarify, the majority of the product development time was spent on a design for which we eventually submitted a utility patent application. However, during the design process we ultimately came to the conclusion that the manufacturing end for said design would prove too costly, and after discussions with T decided to shelf the idea, at least for a while.
We have since trialed with many designs (most of which were blades, just not Ansers) as well as a modular fitting system that we've all but finished prototyping. Our progress and subsequent timeline is impacted by our responsiblities at our current professions, my partner's being our largest obstacle as he is the machinist and we can only machine on off hours, provided the necessary machines are open.
You are probably correct that we have spent far too much time spinning our wheels on the concept of being first, rather than accepting the market realities and concentrating on a different strategy of positioning.
Once again, thanks for taking the time to reply.
Tim

#15 fozcycle

fozcycle

    GRANDMASTER SPY

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,619 posts
  • LocationTampa, FL USA
  • Handicap:15

Posted 21 January 2013 - 06:38 PM

How about a MGS giveaway?

We could review and promote.
Blue Set:
Driver: Cobra Bio Cell with Project Xv 5.5 Regular shaft set at 11.5*
Fairway: Cobra Bio Cell 3 woods with Project Xv 5.5 Regular shaft set at 15.5* Draw & 5 wood set at 17.5*
Hybrids: Cobra Bio Cell 2-3 hybrid with stock Cobra Regular shaft set at 17.5*
Irons: Cobra Bio Cell 4 - 9, with Dynalite 85s steel shafts
Wedges: Cobra Bio Cell PW & GW & SW, with Dynalite 85s steel shafts
Putter: Nike Method Core Drone 33"
Bag: University of Kentucky Letterman Club II Cooler Cart Bag from Team Effort
Balls: Master Grip C4 Tour, Kick X Tour, Bridgestone e6 & Maxfli U3
Glove: Bionic Glove
GPS: Garmin G6

Black Set:
Driver: Powerbilt AFO WMD 10.5* Project X 5.0 reg shaft
Fairway: Powerbilt AFO 3 & 5 Wood with stock Apollo regular shaft
Hybrid: Powerbilt AFO 3H & 4H with stock Apollo regular shaft
Irons: Powerbilt Air Force One 4-PW, AW, SW with Apollo regular grahite shafts
Putter: Slotline SSi693 mid mallet 33"
Bag: PGA Tour Partner Burton cart bag with name on bag




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Sponsors


Our Sponsors

 
 
 

Latest Status Updates

Recent Status Updates

  • Photo
      04 Nov
    dadschilz

    Where can I find out value of old sets of clubs??

    Show comments (5)
View All Updates



Our Sponsors