torque

[revkev]

I think this question goes here.

 

What I know about torque is that it relates to the amount a clubhead twists. (or what I think I know). I also know that like so many things anymore there is no standard for measuring it - one shaft makers 2.5 might be another's 4.0 and so on and so forth. I also read that it relates to feel as much as anything else - two much torque and a club feels too whippy, too little and it feels like a board. Eventually those two extremes may and probably will impact how shots are hit.

 

If what I know is true though how does one really know what the torque of a shaft truly is and ultimately how important is it? Obviously you'll know how the shaft/clubhead combo feels once you have it but I'm concerned about it before the fact - mistakes can be costly.

[RoverRick]

This is my personal opinion and like the ban on anchored putting is based solely on my perception of of this not on any statistical data.

 

Those numbers are supposedly the number of degrees the club head twists during the down swing. They do not vary from manufacturer to manufacturer per se, but will vary with swing speed and the head that is on it. Since the force is applied at one end and the resistance is at the other end, if either of these change then the twisting or torque changes. Also, since no two shafts are exactly the same it will vary to a small degree shaft to shaft.

 

Steel shafts since the are made of one material have very little twisting or torque rating because it is closer to 0. KBS Steel shafts are 1.8-2.0. Graphite depends on the type and orientation of the strands.

 

How much should you pay attention to this number? Anything less than 4 is considered low torque. Anything above 8 is high torque. Since most shafts in regular or stiff flex are in the below 4 range than pay no attention to that. I doubt you can tell the difference in a 2.5 and a 3.8 as far as performance.

 

A very low torque may feel harsher but I think this is because it is the same factors that give it the low torque give it a harsh feel. Torque is not a measurement of feel, it is a measurement of twist. Take the KBS Hybrid steel shafts, a shaft I know you have hit because you hit mine. The torque on it is 1.9. That shaft in no way feels harsh. Compare that to the UST Proforce V2 which you have probably hit at some point since it has been around for more than 10 years. The complaint on that shaft that I have often read is that it feels harsh or boardy to some people. The torque on that shaft is 3.7*. So here the KBS with the lower torque feels less harsh, less boardy, than the higher torque shaft.

 

Torque is a measurement of twisting not feel. So, again, how much should you pay attention to this number? None, as long as the number is less than 5. Plenty of other things to take into account.

 

Edit: Sorry if I repeated myself a couple of times.

[Super Tuna]

Agree with Rick, other then one comment.

 

You made mention that torque isn't different between OEM's per say. Unfortunately not only is it different between OEM's but it can even be different between two shafts from the same OEM. They all tend to measure differently which can give wildly skewd results when one is trying to compare them.

 

If one really wants to know, there are places that have done torsional EI profiling aloneside the standard longitude that people want to know.

 

Unfortunately speed changes things as Rick said. As does the head weight of the club they're using, the point that the torision is measured and the transitional force (two 90mph swings at a soft load vs a strong load is going to change the measurement as well).

 

I know UST is really on the torque bent lately with the VTS line, the Attas 4U replacing the Attas INT but they seem to be the only ones on this path. Last time I was talking with Daniel at Matrix his answer was a longer version of "Meh. As long as it's in a certain range"

[revkev]

I do appreciate both of the answers particularly from such trusted sources - everything I had read indicated the lack of industry standard but it almost seems as if there is no such thing as the platonic torque - you can't measure it in its absolute another words.

 

I like the Meh as long as its in a certain range response I'm getting the sense that this is the real truth.

[McGolf]

I do appreciate both of the answers particularly from such trusted sources - everything I had read indicated the lack of industry standard but it almost seems as if there is no such thing as the platonic torque - you can't measure it in its absolute another words.

 

I like the Meh as long as its in a certain range response I'm getting the sense that this is the real truth.

I would offer another idea in that torque is a measurable quantity that is reported differently. Most torque on shafts is a measure of a 1lbs weight on an arm 1ft long to get ft/lbs of torque however if you put a 2lbs weight on a 6 in arm you can report the same result differently and not to mention if you leave the units off and then internally conduct your testing your testing using metric system numbers. Then the issue is the club head does not weight a pound but at least it's a reference that we are used too.

 

I would also suggest that it's not that shafts fault for having a particular torque for the particular swing but our job to find the proper torque for the average swing we produce. It's about the load placed on the shaft during the swing not swing speed. I would suggest again that yes the swing motion does applies the load but think of two different golfers such as Ernie Else and nick price. Both swing about the same speed but load the shaft differently.

 

Finally, the above example also will relate flex into mix. In almost every shaft the torque will increase with flex in that model.

So finding the proper flex, profile torque is all important for a good shaft for you

[RoverRick]

I would offer another idea in that torque is a measurable quantity that is reported differently. Most torque on shafts is a measure of a 1lbs weight on an arm 1ft long to get ft/lbs of torque however if you put a 2lbs weight on a 6 in arm you can report the same result differently and not to mention if you leave the units off and then internally conduct your testing your testing using metric system numbers. Then the issue is the club head does not weight a pound but at least it's a reference that we are used too.

 

 

This started out as a question but then as I was writing it the answer became self evident.

 

While it is true that torgue generally is given in ft-lbs or in-lbs or Nm, the torque rating of shafts are given in degrees. That is the degrees rotation caused by this torque. Therefore, for example, 2.1 degrees of rotation is 2.1 degrees of rotation but while one manufacturer uses one method to determine this rotation, ft-lbs, another manufacturer uses another, Nm. But while they are not 100% equivalent, they are also not apples to oranges. More like Golden Delicious Apples vs Granny Smith Apples.