[Who Can Overtake Scottie For #1?]

Scottie is days away from having first child. That’s who will “overthrow” him, look what happened to Spieth & Fowler most recently. I mean it in only the best of ways, but being a father/family changes the dynamic, it has to.

From all outward signs, he will excel at that too, but I think it leaves the door open for someone younger like Aberg to be able to devote his time to pursuing the goal of #1.

Doesn’t take anything away from Scheffler’s talent.

[BST classifieds - is it me?]

I have looked everywhere on the MGS site and can no longer find the BST forum or the classifieds.

Is it just me? If so, someone please point me in the right direction and I will gladly own my confusion. If I'm not the only one and this is the first time people are hearing of it, I guess it speaks to the effectiveness of the forum/classifieds that until now no one noticed it missing.

This is admittedly a bit self-serving as I have a Garage Sale worth of stuff I'd like to hopefully part with.

Again, if it's obvious and I'm just confused, my apologies to the land.

[How do you trust a fitter?]

Well, as you can imagine, 2 sides to every story. Full disclosure, I've been a fitter for 10 yrs and a big box retail. I'm not trying to be confrontational, just know "we" have experience(s) too.

I've seen way more of you than you've see of me. The internet is your friend, but not necessarily mine. It's nice to have informed customers, but don't come in if you think you know more than me and you're going to tell me I'm wrong. That's a waste of both our times. We do have product training from every manufacturer we sell. Like anything else, it's on us to learn it and apply it. At our store, we have NO incentive to push one OEM over the other. We are afforded PUD pricing on product and those purchases are monitored by management, so one can't just buy everything.

Someone mentioned a good fit being part lesson. I guess that's true (sort of). However, if you wanted a lesson, presumably you'd be going to a PGA pro and not me. Personally, I've been around many PGA Class A pros and really good players for years, so I have a fair amount of experience. However, any "tip/suggestion" you'd receive from me would have nothing to do with changing any mechanic in you swing. It's really difficult to fit a customer who CAN NOT make a consistent strike or pass at the ball. In addition, realistic expectations and honesty are really helpful. I've lost count of how often I hear, "I just can't hit indoors ...", "I'm just having a bad day ...", "I usually hit it much farther than this ..." From watching your swing, I doubt those things are true.

I notice when I read many of these forum posts, I always check the posted index in the bio. More often than not, the higher index people (16 and up) have the most "answers" on topics like this and club choices/comparisons. Hmmm ...

After a discussion of your goals, needs, wants and budget, I used the PING chart for static measurement and the Mizuno Swing Analyzer for shaft. It's a great tool and Mizuno carries 85%+ of the shafts other manufacturers also order, so I find it a great place to start. If you're not interested in Mizunos, we never go there from that point on. One quick Mizuno plug, they are they only manufacturer (for us anyway) that has basically no up charge on shafts (SteelFiber excluded).

I've been to many many OEM fittings days and because it's a free-for-all, it's kinda on you to get the attention/information you need, even when they do it by appt. at green grass clubs. And again, those "fitters" are usually younger kids, tying to get into the business, with no ties that prevent them from living in there cars as they do it 8 days a week. Doesn't mean they don't know anything, but like before, if they don't love it and live it, that's the quality you receive.

We have competitors for sure, some good some not. Inside my store, we have 7-8 employees who's title is fitter. You will undoubtedly get that many variations. Again, how much some mid-20 yr old kid, working through school, or someone more seasoned like myself, retired and immersed in the game knows is widely different. It's on you to do your due diligence.

I don't mean to bash anyone, but I do have to say because I see it every day where I work. Club Champion and the shaft pureing. CC owns Pure SST, it's not hard to figure out why they push the extra $$ for a service that at this point is highly debated (check past forums).

Lastly, though I do make commission and it's my job to have to leave the store with product and a sale, I repeatedly refuse to sell to you if it's not better. I'd rather make you a customer for an honest experience than feel badly and turn to Yelp to say so. I've even had customers call my manager to complain that I wouldn't sell them a driver. What I did was recommend they spend $500 on lessons first and then come back.

Appreciate anyone reading this far.

[Mats vs. Grass]

On 10/27/2023 at 3:49 AM, paul6057 said:

My coach had a drill where he put a bit of paper about 4 inches behind the ball. That will show you if you're too shallow and hitting the ball a bit fat, which as you say, you get away with on a mat, but is a disaster on grass.

If you’re shallow, you’re not hitting it fat.

everything everyone else has said. For me the main thing about mats is potential for injury. I’m fortunate to have grass whenever I want/need. However within walking distance is a public course with mats., so sometimes. I noticed how much mats on concrete messes up my elbows, wrists and hands. If I go, its for an intentional drill of only 40 balls and I’m finished. Can’t afford the lingering aches and pains of that constant practice.

At your current index, spending more time at a grass short game area would probably be more beneficial if improvement vs “grooving you swing” is the true goal.

[Chipping Technique]

 

Seems to me just at looking at these stats alone, the problem is 3/15 greens!    Hit more greens in regulation and your won’t have to chip at all.

 

[When you know there's a sandbagger in your league, WWYD?]

Well, for me this is an easy one. And perhaps admittedly speaks to my golf mental health.

I never play in tournaments or for money (some charity scrambles for the cause). In my experience of 30 yrs, there are just too many of these people around. It’s not why I play or what draws me to the game.

I find that if you’re so consumed by saying you won the 14th flight of your club championship and you need to “cheat” to do it, then I don’t need to play with you. I’ve been in rounds where a player in my group is admittedly massaging his index for an upcoming trip with lots of money on the line. When one plays 4-5 rounds a week, it’s pretty easy to move the needle +/- 3-5 points. That’s too much mental hopscotch for me.

In fact, I recently figured out how much more I enjoy the game since I stopped posting scores about 4 yrs ago. I know what I shoot and I play for my own personal expectations.

 

[What Have You Built Recently?]

On 6/13/2023 at 8:37 AM, DeBartola_B said:

Has anyone done any sort of club refurbishing?  Or any tips of setting up clubs for 8-12 years from an adult set?  Thanks in advance.

Try soaking them overnight in either vinegar or Coke (prefer vinegar a, but Coke good for rust). Heck, maybe do both depending on condition, then clean up with Simple Green, then good polish like Flitz.   Then you can repaint with enamel paint pens for model paint.

[Wrist breakdown on Armlock putting]

Not saying you I don’t have one, because I don’t know. That said, get a wrist lock putter. One that is actually designed to be one.

Where I work, I see WAY too many people bring in conventional putters and try to have me build it to a arm lock, either by throwing a SS arm lock grip on there, or by extending and same. It’s all make shift and seems destined to not work. Altering your own conventional putter just changes too many variables that have to be accounted for: (balance, lie angle, proper length, head weight relation, etc.)

Just a thought. 

[Buddy Golf Trip Gag Ideas]

Don’t know if you I keep accumulative score, but I used to run a tournament where there were 20 of us. Played lots of different game formats over 5 rounds on a weekend. The winner got a traveling trophy and a blazer (ala Augusta) signed inside by all past winners.

The loser got a bowling pin and matching shirt (J.B. - just bad) that they had to wear the 1st round back each year. One guy after winning the bowling pin 2 years in a row, dragged it behind his cart on a rope for a day.  Geez

All in good fun.

[MGS Forum Badge Catalog]

Golf industry 

broke 80

hole in one

 

please.  Thx

[Fowler’s and Clark’s putter]

Other than the collectors aspect of this, I find it funny that so many people think that if they just had the same putter these pros have they’ll putt better.

These guys designed specs SPECIFICALLY for themselves and there’s a reason they get paid to play. That original putter came out almost 10 years ago and I guess the supposed benefits of owning one then escaped many people.

Just like when the masses thought they needed one length after what’s his name won something. The only people that benefit are the stores that take your money.

[How many different grips are on your clubs?]

Wow, who’d have thought?

As someone who does grips all day at work, I thought I’d seen/heard a lot, but many of these replies are new to me.

For what it’s worth, when asked for recommendations, to my mind it’s really simple (putter excepted of course).   Make all your grips the same so that if you closed your eyes and picked a club, no matter what it is they all feel the same. To me that takes out a variable and adds to confidence.

[Custom leather head covers]

Eliott Bag Company

Can’t say enough about Scott Halter and his product. I’ve done almost a dozen headcovers now with him. He’s just great.

Just about any image that can be digitized he can do for you. Your choice of leather color and inside lining and well worth the $$ (about $80 on average.

If you use him, please tell you heard about him from the San Francisco guy that does the Grateful Dead stuff. He’d appreciate it. If you have any questions about my experiences, please feel free to DM. 

Some examples - 

[3 Hybrid or 5 Wood?]

I think from a fitter’s POV there are a couple things to think about, all which basically lead back to the same place, which is - what do you feel most confident with.

The lofts are basically pretty similar so the distance will tend to be relatively the same, though the ball flight getting there will be slightly different. Though the lofts are similar, the lengths are not, which indicates that the hybrid (whatever number) should be easier to hit. That said, many feel that the hybrids go left too easily. Sort of a good thing since many players tend to push/slice the longer clubs, however much of that is due to players trying to hit a hybrid like a wood. That’s incorrect, they are hit like irons and this change usually eliminates the left miss.

When fitting, what I care about is gap distance. It’s best when players know their TRUE yardages with whatever their longest iron is, AND their shortest FW. There is a gap between those two that needs to be addressed. This gap could be one club or two depending on how wide it is. I don’t care what number is on the club. What matters is what addresses the XXX yd gap (fill in blank). this could be 3H, 2H, 7W, 5W or maybe a combo of two of those.

Lastly, if that high end gap warrants 2 clubs, pull the lob wedge out (especially if 60* IMO) it’s a club that is not needed or useful for most players. Higher the hdcp, less useful.

[Wedges 52.56.60 or 50.54.58?]

IMO and experience as a fitter for the last 10 years, along with spending an inordinate amount of time with PGA Class-A pros, a 60* wedge is probably the most wasted wedge/purchase of amateur golfers.

They don’t know how to play them, they’re typically too low a bounce.   Put a club in your bag that actually helps.

[Poll: Driving Range Warmup Before Playing a Round?]

GENERALIZAITON

From reading these responses and looking at the corresponding handicaps, there seems to me a pattern that the better players are the more likely to hit range prior AND more importantly, with some kind of purpose in doing so.

Also curious, for all those with no range at their course, where and how often do they practice vs. play?

Last thought, how many go to range AFTER the round to work on something specific from how they just played?

[Headcovers and Their Stories]

Like many of you, have been a Seamus Golf fan for years, still am. I have an entire set for backup bag.

However, about a year and a half ago, I saw somewhere online a pro's bag with Grateful Dead covers. Had to have them. It took me about 2 wks to track it all down, but found out they were on DJ Trahan's bag and were made by Eliott Bag Co. in Charleston. I got in touch directly with owner Scott Halter, a great guy to work with.

I asked if I could custom design my head covers. "If I can digitize it, I can make".   They are great quality leather, you can choose your inside color. Very competitively reasonable price in the "Head Cover" game. Give him a shout and let him know you saw it on MGS.  Here are the results.

1st two pics for my daughter's bag.  Deadhead, and her obsession with the Mandalorian and the tower in SF.

 

My bag

[Lie angles with irons and wedges]

On 1/25/2023 at 11:05 AM, CaptStang said:

I just watched a review of 2023 8 irons of major manufacturers...the 8 iron lie angle had a variance between 33 and 38 degrees....the 33 degree 8 iron was consistently flying 180 yards and the 38 degree 8 iron was consistently flying 155 yards....all of these were major club manufacturers under careful testing procedures....

Those numbers ARE NOT lie angle, they're lofts.

If you actually look at the majority of clubs on the market, you'll find that throughout the sets the lie angles are essentially the same. Like most set lengths (1/2" increments), the lie angles are .5° different in the progressions. Starting backward, most PW are 64°, 9 = 63.5°, etc. all the way up to the 4 or 3i. Almost all wedges are 64° from manufacturer.

Lofts are all over the map. About 8 yrs ago, I made a spreadsheet of the 7i lofts of every iron sold in a store (from manufacturer's website specs), in comparison with the Miura CB-202 I had at the time. The difference was 5° of loft separation! I was wondering why I always felt a club short. My buddy was telling me he was hitting his 7i 200 yds! It was lofted the same as my 5i. Back then then the trend was starting to jack the lofts in search of the longest club. Now then manufacturer's are thinking more about launch windows, spin and decent angles and how those stronger lofts effect such things. Remember, it was this trend that brought us the gap wedge.

Back to lie angle, it's about dynamic impact. That's why a good fitter will measure that in conjunction with the length of your club. When your swing changes and/or gets better, it's not uncommon for the lie angle to change. In the same vein, a lie angle won't make up for a bad swing. It will help a little, however making a club more and more and more upright, won't change the fact that a person casts the club and hits in right with an open club face.

[Between clubs: hit it hard or take some off?]

For the sake of this answer, let's make the assumption one is between a 9i & PW (although it applies throughout).

You can grip down (1/2" or so) on the 9i or longer club. The way most club sets are built in 1/2" length increments, you are now effectively swinging a stronger lofted (by 3-4°) PW or shorter club. The ball will spin a bit less and fly a little lower. This should easily cover the situation, PROVIDED you still swing the club the same way, with the same intention as the PW. It's when trying to swing a little smoother, or slower, or "take something off it", because you have "more" club that the problem arises. Typically that result is lost ball speed as the quality of the strike is diminished and you come up short with a mishit. Sure it's possible to nuke one and fly the green target, but not that likely.

Another option which sometimes works is take the shorter club option, move ball back in your stance a couple ball widths and deloft the club with your normal intentioned swing. However this is probably a bit more risky and for better players, as the miss will tend to be a combination of hitting it fat and left.

[F/S: TOULON SAN DIEGO PUTTER - 2022]

F/S: TOULON SAN DIEGO PUTTER - 2022       $380 OBO

Played 3x - everything original. I tried a blade, just not for me. Good for you.

- LENGTH = playing length is 36 1/8" (it was ordered @36", but grip butt cap makes it a hair longer)

- LIE = 2° flat

- LOFT = 3°

- SHAFT = Stroke Lab 3Gen green

- GRIP = Stroke Lab Oversize (Toulon)

Virtually brand new. MSRP = $449.99 If you need any further information or pics, please feel free to ask.

[2 wood instead of driver?]

I too suffered from this a while back (except for the slice part). Just couldn't hit a driver. I got on Trackman and figured out what the swing issues are and then sought to address that. However at this point in age, my swing is basically what it is and I have to work/live with it.

That said, I found the "Mini" driver to be the solution. A bit smaller head and played at 44", it's great for me. I first started a while back with the Callaway 1.5 Mini, then went to Taylormade Original One, 'cuz it was 20yds longer, now I play the Taylormade 300.

I had the luxury of playing roughly 70+ rounds alone which allowed me the opportunity to test all this in real time under real conditions. I do still own a driver, but it's still not worth it. When I hit it "perfect' it about 8-12yds longer than the Taylormade 300. However, the number of fairways hit isn't even close. Yeah, I'd be one less iron closer, but I hit mine far enough that I don't see the benefit of not having a better lie.

I think that at this point, enough people out there have tried the Mini's and found they're NOT for them. You should be able to find one in good shape used at a big box on online. They come in 11.5° & 13.5°. Not knowing anything, I'd go for the lower one as it's more toward the 2W you're referring to.

I recently watched a TXG video about what 5 things amateurs don't do vs the pros. The one that hit home for me was: have a go to shot. I'd rather not stand on the tee with a driver and the mental hopscotch that goes with that than have the 300 Mini in my hand that I have total confidence in.

Well, just another opinion.  Or, perhaps shorten your current driver to 44.5".

[Taylormade Original One - 11.5° - stiff]

FS: TaylorMade Original One "Mini" driver.   $300 OBO

 

- Total club length = 43.75"

- Stated head loft = 11.5°

- Shaft = Mitsubishi Tensei Blue CK series

- Shaft weight - 65g stiff

- Includes original head cover

- Condition - Used but in great shape.

 

Any questions, please free to DM.    Thx for looking.

 

[FS: TaylorMade Original One Mini Driver 11.5* (shaft choice)]

$280 OBO

This was a back-up "driver" for me and is lightly used and in great shape.

I'm offering ONE of two shaft options (you pick). Both are Mitsubishi Tensi Blue (both CK), one is 60 Regular and the other is 65 Stiff.

Again, I'll ship your choice.

Head cover included

 

Any questions, please feel free.  Thx for looking

 

 

 

[F/S: 2018-19 Scotty Cameron Select Newport – 34” $340 OBO]

F/S: 2018-19 Scotty Cameron Select Newport – 34”  $340 OBO

Rarely used in great condition. Actual measurement is a fingernail short of 34". Grip - Matador Midsize

If interested, please feel free to DM me. Any questions, please feel free to ask. Thanks for looking. CONUS and legitimate offers only please.

[FS: SUB70, Odyssey, MMT Shafts]

FS:  SUB70 4-PW (heads only) $375 OBO

4i head is the 690 PRO model. The remaining 5-PW are the 639CB model. They are .370 heads and need a parallel tip shaft. They are in great condition, lightly played. They are super soft and have a wonderful feel. Lie angle is to manufacturer's specs, loft is bent 1° strong. You will notice in one picture there are a couple of dents in the back from the bending machine. A testament to how soft they are. This DOES NOT effect playability. I should have bent them myself The picture shown of the face is the 8i which has the most wear on it. The other is the 4i just to show the difference

FS: Mitsubishi MMT 105TX shaft 4-PW set (heads only).  $355 OBO

-  These shafts are professionally pulled. They are .355 taper tip

FS: White Hot #1WS $220 OBO (new)

The White Hot #1WS is a wide blade with a slant neck, giving this putter toe hang best suited for strokes with face rotation and arc. This putter features our legendary White Hot insert, available in both a stepped steel and our new red Stroke Lab shaft, each fitted with our gray DFX grip.

Extra grip and headcover included.

All pics below. Thanks for looking. If interested or would like more information or images, please feel free to DM me.