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Justin66

 
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Posts posted by Justin66

  1. I have Acer XK gear. I recently switched my wedges from Acer XB to Inazone Shadows. My gamer putter is a White Hot XG #9. Why do I game them? Let's see: I own a Callaway FT-3, FT-5 and FT-9; a Nike Sasquatch and SuMo 5000; an Adams A3 Boxer hybrid; Callaway X-20 and X-22's (both Tour and non-Tour versions... not whole sets, either); Callaway Big Bertha irons; an Odyssey Dual Force 2 putter (my backup putter; had an original White Hot Rossie, but gave that to charity), Tour Edge Progressive J/Max irons (another charity gift); a Nike NDS 5 wood (3w went to charity); Cleveland 588 and CG12 wedges (56 and 60*); Taylormade RAC (56*) and Rac Satin TP (52*) wedges; a couple of older Vokey wedges (52 and 56*); Adams Watson wedges (52, 56, 60*); Dunlop Pro Combo irons (made from zinc)... you get the idea.

     

    I get just as much performance with my Acers as any of the other clubs I've listed, for a fraction of the cost. Gives me more money for greens fees!

  2. Would like to see a hand with different numbers of fingers rather than a number on the ball.

    "My ball is a Vision number 4. Count the fingers."

    Clock is cool too, but make it 5:00 for happy hour rather than 800 for work beginning.

     

    Pint and martini glasses would be cool too.

     

     

     

     

    I also want a bright Visons hat with that logo on it to (skull and bones on the front and the Vision + on the sides maybe?) in a nice bright green or something.

     

    Rickie Fowler won't have anything on Vision players :huh:

     

    In my opinion, both of these are excellent ideas. Wincey's dead-on about the Fowler comment :angry: .

  3. I took the putter head from the powder coating post, and placed in the oven at 500 degrees for about an hour. I didnt see any change in the finish. Should I have left it in longer? Or does that mean its not raw?

     

    Sounds to me like you're going to have to strip the powder coating off, because it's not in a raw state with it on. With it off, you should then be able to see some change in the finish.

  4. I hit my longest drive of the year Sunday with an X3... 292 yards (thanks to Skycaddie, as well)! It was a 286 yard par 4. I ended up in the rough to the left. I hit a nice touch chip with it and proceeded hack at my birdie putt. Blah. Walked away with par, but it was those "what might have been" moments.

     

    I'm still in love with the Pinkie for its overall performance, but the X3 has earned a place right next to it, shoving the TM TP Red to 3rd place. Maybe it was me when I originally tested the X3... I have a tendency to get in my own way. But Sunday the X3 was just ON. All my good shots felt pure; the miss-hits were noticeable, but not overbearing. I put some decent spin on the ball, as well- I ended up saving bogey (yeah, I put myself in poor spots at times off the tee and had to make a recovery shot... I'm getting really good at that, thanks to all the practice) a couple of times with well-placed pitches that seemed to just want to go in.

     

    I know what I'm asking for for Christmas- both the Pinkie's and the X3's!

  5. Unbelievable I signed up for the Test Pilot program last night and within 5 minutes Wayne replied back asked a few ? and Im on my way. Not only that I had sort of a special request and Wayne came thru. If more companies in the golf industry were like Vision they wouldn't need to change product every 90 days to attract LOYAL followers.

    VISION GOLF IS A GOLF COMPANY ROCK STAR.

     

     

    The "major" OEMs aren't like Boz/Vision. On one hand it's sad, but it does make you appreciate the companies like Boz's (at least, for me personally it's like that).

  6. We spent a good portion of our day speaking with the companies that will be involved with the metallurgical tests and the other tests that will be performed on the heads.

     

    For right now we are going to do 1 Name Brand Driver (vs) 1 Clone Driver...but might offer this as an on-gong series down the road if it is received well.

     

    We will also test both drivers like we do the other clubs we test as well to get good data on how they compare.

     

    No matter how this ends up, at least we can be at ease knowing MGS is going to be fair and unbiased... If Golf Digest or the like did this, it's be a fair bet that wouldn't be the case. This is pretty exciting!

  7. Not to beat the dead horse, but how about a test? Can we get a clone G10 and the real deal (it can be any brand, really), cut them up and let everyone see what's inside? Same with FWs and hybrids- they have to have welds, as well. I've seen pictures of a counterfeit Callaway driver that had shoddy welding and no weight chip, but I've never heard of the clones doing a bad job... Makes me curious.

  8. :(

     

    A few years ago Callaway introduced a driver, the same name as a driver we introduced a few years earlier...their lawyers met us at the PGA show and told us that WE had to change the name of our heads because they registered the name! So we did...and we told them what the new name was going to be.....they agreed...that was 4 years ago and now we found out that next year they are planning on introducing a new driver with the same name as the one we all agreed would be ours...yes, legal action is now being looked into.

     

    If not, all of a sudden, all the work and effort put in is now being stolen by an OEM and WE will look like the copiers.

     

    Its a tough, cut-throat world out there.

     

    We can see that copying between OEMs with the new irons that are coming out with that "Y-Tuning Port" deal that Mizuno had already used. Sometimes it makes me wonder if they think the golfing population is just blind and/or ignorant. I guess I'll really get my answer if Ping comes out with PowerBow technology :D .

     

    Golf Magazine has done an article about the difficulty of naming a club, but they didn't get into the bullying/stealing that OEMs do. Indacup, I hope you can stand up to them, especially given the crap you went through the first time. From my point of view this seems like a flat-out strong-arm tactic by an imaginationless OEM. I know it's just a name, but still...

     

    However, with your posts I see where you're coming from in all this- I can respect that.

  9. Totally agree with you Justin.

     

    I've broken 2 drivers this year (around the hosel). One of them was my Rapture clone, the other one was the original Rapture. Does that mean Ping uses the same kind of "low-quality" materials? I'm new to the game, but I'm an honest believer that it's all in the player, not in the clubs.

     

    An interesting fact is that most clone distributors will provide very detailed specs of the materials used, while big brands don't have that information. Why is that? Seriously, be it DiamondTour or Hireko or whatever... you can see on many specs the 1-2-3-4-5 titanium used, but that information is nowhere to be found on OEM. Hell, the clones even give you detailed specs of the shafts used tip, torque, kick point, etc.

     

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I've seen while researching which set of clubs to buy next.

     

    Talking about breakage, after I broke my clone driver I was wondering if it was really the low-quality material that had caused it or was it simply my fault. After doing a lot of calling, asking, emailing the OEMs themselves tell me that 80% of their RMAs and replacements are broken drivers.

     

    Can't say which is better, but assuming they last the same, hit the same distance and have the same feel (I probably can't tell the difference between a baseball bat and hockey stick) I would go for the $400 set instead of the $2000 one any day!

     

    Unless the OEMs are trying to showcase something, they usually hide what materials they use. It demystifies their stuff if they say "cast from 17-4 stainless" or "form-forged 6-4 Ti", because people can look and see that it's exactly the same as a component brand.

  10. When it comes to breakage issues between clones and OEM...the only REAL outbreak I remember was a few years ago when Nike recalled the Sumo 2 in 2007 when they were breaking left and right because they thinned out the face too much to compensate for the weight displacement towards the rear (engineering screw up)...Had they used a higher grade Ti face, they would have gotten away with it...but they opted to thin out the 6-4 beyond .003 and that failed.

     

    That was the same year they got busted with drivers taht were too hot, correct? If memory serves (and it's hit-or-miss with me, sometimes... LOL) I think that's when it happened. Correct me if I'm wrong, though!

  11. I agree with this.

     

    While we don't advertise clone sales, we WILL provide them if the customer insists...

     

    My opinion parallels NGage, Someone spent time and money developing a design...and in my opinion, the clone companies stole that for their own use.

     

    To me, buying a stolen design, is akin to buying stolen property.

     

    But they aren't "stealing". They are allowed to use those designs, one way or the other. If it were stealing, it's a pretty safe bet the clone companies like GigaGolf, Pinemeadow and DiamondTour would have their equipment confiscated, business taken and website shut down, since they'd be a HELLUVA lot easier to find than the counterfeiters.

     

    Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I gamed Pinemeadow gear for almost two years and I never had an issue. My driver, hybrid, SW and LW were Pinemeadows. There's a guy on my old league that gamed a full set of Pinemeadows, going on 5 years of having them. He shoots in the high 70's-low 80's, so I'm pretty sure they're still working for him.

     

    If people think only the offbrands are using "cheap" material... sorry, but they aren't. The major OEMs do, as well... but it's a loose definition of "cheap". 6-4 and 15-3-3-3 Ti are the two most common materials used- by both the OEMs AND The "offbrands" (just as what indacup said). It's the counterfeiters that use poor material, like a mixture of Ti and who knows what else. is just some inferior mix, they've opened themselves up to a lawsuit... what reputable company would do that?

     

    You can't use breakage as an issue, either... So OEM clubs are indestructable? Not likely. A buddy of mine had a FT-3 break on its third usage. Does that make it inferior? No, it's just one of those things... it stinks, but it happens. To everyone, at some point.

     

    Personally, I think it's more about having perceptions shattered than anything else. Some people don't like hearing that their $1500 gear won't yield them anything better than the $300 I paid for mine. They get defensive... like trying to justify going out and buying a Lambo, when they know deep down they don't need it. I don't understand that, though... it isn't about what you buy or how much you spent (so long as it isn't counterfeit). If it's fit for your game and swing, you can spend whatever you want.

     

    I'm going to restate this, but anyway: more people need to realize that this game can be accessible AND affordable. From talking to people, they don't like feeling like they have to spend $1,000+ just to get started. There's also that perception of elitism still because they hear about the $1000+ gear and the $100+ rounds of golf. They're told they aren't REAL golfers unless they're gaming the Pings, Callaways, etc., or not going to Pebble and St. Andrews. It gets disheartening, and frankly, shouldn't be that way. I tell them about my gear and it changes their mind- not for all, but most. It shows them that there ARE alternatives- quality alternatives- to getting started.

     

    @indacup- you might be surprised to know that there are OEMs that use "open molds", as well. Reps from the OEMs go to the foundry and pick out a design they like. It then gets stampped/stickered with their name on it. Maltby has talked about this before, but he, like everyone else, won't name names (much like the "which Tour players are using Miura/Endo/other forgings with their sponsor's stamping on them" discussion)... which is a practice I think should stop. Everyone has the right to feel the way they do, but for me personally, I don't feel this qualifies as "stealing".

     

    Yeah, I edited this. After rereading it, that highlighted line sounded pretty freaking superficial and not what I was trying to say at all... Sheesh, I thought I was a better proofreader than that.

  12.  

    One of the pros that teaches there made fun of me once because all my head covers said DiamondTourGolf instead of the usual big brands.

    Then he grabs my Rapture V2 clone and starts telling me how expensive titanium is and how impossible it is to sell a driver head of titanium at that price ($79 assembled compared to the $299 for the original) and how the sound was not right, etc.

     

    Later I find out he is the owner of the proshop at our course and well, I guess he felt threatened by... clones?

     

    I personally think it's a pretty shitty attitude, especially coming from a "pro" who is supposed to teach people and help people enjoy this beautiful game, not bash a beginner for the clubs he's using.

     

    But I've learned to live with it, whenever a flight partner asks me what I'm playing I just tell him it's a clone of whatever model so he can leave me alone.

    You should look at their faces when I outdrive their $500 drivers (I live in Germany so that driver costs EUR 399 here) with my cheap stick. Then they'll ask me where can they get a set.

     

     

     

     

    Thanks, Steven... that means a lot. I will say that you shouldn't have to "live with" anything, but I like what I highlighted above. If I'm going to get beat, it isn't because of the equipment. I've been beaten by women, men, kids... they had more talent than me, that's it.

  13. Excellent point, Tyk.

     

    Unfortunately, my shop got slammed with a whole pile of counterfeit clubs last week. Nothing to do but eat the cost because we don't want the rep of selling fake clubs.

     

    That's crap, Saturn- I understand the logic, but from my point of view, it's unfair to you and your company. But what else can be done to stop this? I hate it, because of how much it screws everyone up. Aside from an all-out war on counterfeiters, I can't think of any logical/ethical/legal ways to stop the counterfeiters... Kind of a downer.

     

    Thanks for the words, MGS, but it's definitely me who should thank you. I'm just a guy who does a lot of research, but if I have a goal (or maybe a mission statement, most likely :( ) it's to try to show people they can enjoy an incredible game, regardless of what they play. The idea started from a local Harley-Davidson ad... "It's not WHAT you ride, it's IF you ride". That coupled with my reading Wishon's "The Right Sticks" and Frank Thomas' "Just Hit It" really changed my perception. But I don't want it to seem like I'm bashing any OEM (even though I know I've failed at that, especially early on). I am NO fan of hype and would LOVE it if they actually put some stone-cold facts in their marketing; but it's just about the freedom of choice... like playing golf: you can play a dogleg hole the way it's been laid out, or you can play it down the adjacent fairway (or through the trees). Neither way is "wrong", so long as the ball gets in the hole in the fewest strokes possible. It's like a good movie or book- open for interpretation (yes, I just came up with that... I can't believe it, either). Same with gear: play what works best for you, whether it's a Callaway, TM, Snake Eyes, Acer, whatever.

  14. I'm also going to add that this doesn't just work with heads. It's shafts and grips, as well. I've said it maybe 20 times, but since I have enough reputable sources behind me- not to mention that the "big boys" won't even respond to emails- you can absolutely play a very good game without using KBS, Project X or Nippon shafts. Same with graphite. I realize this upsets people, but it's true. If two shafts are exactly (or close to) the same, guess what? They'll play exactly the same. Look at the Golfworks' fitting system. You get that alphanumeric code, then look for a shaft that matches. Ever notice that there are multiple options? If each shaft was absolutely different, wouldn't you get just one option, and always the most expensive one? Since it isn't that way, it comes down to two choices: 1. buy the one that you can afford, or feel strongly about (freedom of choice); or 2. get the most expensive one, since it's OBVIOUSLY better.

     

    We have this discussion with putters and balls, as well. Some unknown putter company charges $300 for theirs and people balk, but won't hesitate spending that on a Cameron... Better yet, how is a #300 Cameron better than a $120 Odyssey, or a $70 Adams (that got a good review from MGS)? It isn't... it's just what feels best for the individual. Same with Vision balls... would any of us thought twice about them just by looking at a website? I doubt it... definitely doubt it, in my particular case. Having the opportunity to talk with Boz (thanks to MGS) has been enlightening, at worst. Digesting what he says, and having the opportunity to openly communicate with him makes a world of difference for me. The average Joe doesn't get that very often with the major OEMs. We buy into their BS, because that's all the advertisements and mainstream golf media feeds us. That's why there needs to be more places like MGS.

     

    Grips are the same way. I've used the Sharpro's, the Winn's, the Karma's, Tacki-Mac's, Lamkin's, Golf Pride's and Black Widows... While an Itomic is different from a Tour Velvet, that doesn't make one or the other "better". Again, it's based on personal preferences. But can a person tell a difference between a Black Widow Tour Silk, Lamkin Performance Plus, Karma Velvet and GP Velvet? If they're the same size, I highly doubt it, unless that individual has AMAZING feel.

     

    But it goes on and on... Look at the rumors that fly. This is another old point, but necessary: let's say Callaway gets bought by Dick's and they pull all their ads and dropped their prices. What then? Is Callaway still an "it" brand? It didn't work for Ben Hogan, MacGregor, or any of the older brands. Would Callaway be lumpped into the pile with all the other "lesser" brands- the Hogans, MaxFli's and every component brand? I'm willing to bet they would. It'd be unfair, but it'd happen.

  15. any news on the DiamondTour vs OEM tests?

     

    I just picked up golf this year and my first set was one from DiamondTour. As I see no reviews on the website about clones, I thought maybe there were taboo here :(

     

    I'm too new to golf to be able to give a detailed review about performance, feel, feedback, bla bla bla so I thought maybe someone here has played their clubs.

     

    It would be interesting to know what you guys think.

     

    Maybe we can exchange some opinions and feedback.

     

    I've tried their Nike SQ Sumo2 and Ping Rapture V2 clones and just placed an order for the TM R9 clones. Also bought their Titleist Vokey clones.

     

    I can only compare them to the original Rapture V2, because those are the only OEM clubs I've hit. But I honestly don't feel any difference hitting a Rapture V2 driver with Diamana shaft and a clone with their Nanotech shaft.

     

    But like I said, I'm still lacking skill and experience to give a more objective feedback.

     

    A set goes for under $500 and it helped me go from 36 HCP in march down to a 21-ish within 6 months. Don't know about you, but I'm satisfied!

     

    I won't speak for everyone else, but I personally don't find them taboo. I've gamed Pinemeadow gear and was VERY satisfied with it, until I went through that "you're only a REAL golfer if you use name brands" phase. I currently game a full set of Acer XK clubs, sans the putter. Let me put it this way: My SuMo 5000 (that I bought brand new for $300 at the time) with a Grafalloy ProLaunch Platinum shaft (originally $94 that I got for $50) I installed later goes the same distance (with the same accuracy) as my Acer XK driver ($59) with True Ace Blue Crush ($17) shaft... ~265 yards. That, last time I checked, was 30 yards farther than the average male, according to the National Golf Foundation. My 85 scoring average is also a little better than average, I suppose... but since I don't game "real" equipment, apparently to some people (but not everyone, to be fair) I'm not a "real" golfer. Go figure. You have to go with reputable off brands: Diamond Tour, Hireko, Maltby/GolfWorks, Golfsmith, Alpha, Bang, SMT, Integra... there are quite a few. Sadly, there are bad companies (whether intentionally so or not), but I've been lucky enough not to find them.

     

    As for Mike Stachura... he's a douchebag, plain and simple. I hate to say it, but it's true... and I try as hard as I can to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. I got into it with him through an email exchange because he called golfers that don't upgrade to new gear every two years "pretenders". It's absolutely pathetic- it isn't the simple fact that people are going out and playing this awesome game, they aren't really doing it unless they're buying into the "hot list's" bullsh!t. It's akin to saying "since you aren't driving a 2008+ Porche, but taht 2002 Taurus/Kia/Tacoma/Blazer/whatever you aren't really driving". Whatever. Mr. Carney couldn't/wouldn't defend him, giving some fluff about Stachura's "passion". I even called him on stuff like Scratch and Fourteen- people having been giving good reviews of them for a while, but "Golf" Digest only just started to acknowledge them. I called it an attempt to show credibility and they didn't have a response for that, either. I also brought up the "gotta make the advertisers happy" thing- Tom Wishon writes about it in his "The Right Sticks" book- and they wouldn't respond to that, as well.

     

    People get so caught up in what brands they're playing... but for any reason other than ego-feeding, who cares? Callaway, Adams, Scratch, Nike, KBS and many others are relatively new to the game... the difference being, they're better at advertising (that includes getting their gear onto the PGA Tour). Yes, they make good product, but that doesn't mean those that don't advertise can't make good stuff. Hell's Bell's, Nike didn't even develop their original technology- they bought it! And according to MULTIPLE sources, price is in NO WAY a determinate of playability. A proper fitting, yes; price tag, no.

     

    Personally, I'm not going to judge you no matter what brands you game- if you've got an even temper and are a good joke-teller, that's all I care about. Not if you're playing Mizuno's with KBS's, or Evil Eye's with Apollo shafts, or whatever. You don't even have to be "good" (not saying I'm Tour Ready, though), just good company.

     

    Just to come back a bit, since I couldn't figure out where to put this, but Sharpro's MC grips are ABSOLUTELY the same as Golf Prides... I know because I've used both. Is that an absolute? No... there's always a chance someone's going to find a bad batch with either brand (or both), but I will hands-down, unquestioningly support the REAL makers of the multicompound grip- Sharpro.

  16.  

    I'm really gonna miss that Pinky!

     

    I lost my Russel last week. Fortunately, not the Pinky!

     

    I tested the X3 UV, the Gel and Pinky today. The Gel felt heavy... it held it's line VERY well on shots struck with the driver, 3w and 3h (I'm talking straight-as-a-string), but it seemed weighted down when chipping around the green. I've never experienced something like this before. Very weird.

     

    The X3 is spectacular. I had one shot, a pitch on 14 at my course, that was the closest to making me feel like a Tour pro. I swung, made perfect ball-then-turf contact on the sweet spot. The ball seemed to knuckleball for a second, but rose up about 10-12 feet in the air; it caught the green and just stopped cold ~1 foot from the hole. I stood there for about a minute just dumbstruck. Unfortunately, I think the X3 spins too much on drives/long shots for my tastes. If they were mostly straight, it'd be OK (so long as it doesn't balloon), but since I was fighting a hook today, the spin really seemed to exascerbate it. That one pitch wasn't the only bright spot with the X3, however... I had plenty of instances where I could do the "point and shoot" methodology of chipping. I was within 3' of the hole a good 90% of the time (this includes my testing I did on the 18th, after I officially ended my round). Flop shots were good, though it seemed to roll out just a bit more than I expected it to. Kind of odd, but not a big deal since I don't flop it that often. If I was hitting more shots on the straight and narrow, this would still be my #2 ball because...

     

    ... The Pinky is just awesome. I used the same one for the last 9 holes I played and am just amazed at how it performs. My long shots held true- not as much as the Gel, but pretty close. It has a nice soft-yet-not-so-soft feel on chips, pitches and putts. I could do the "point and shoot" method- it was exactly the same as the X3. When I did my additional testing, I even managed to make it spin back on a flop shot! My only issue with it is the color... yes, I know it's pink and it's not that- it's just, for me, the harder of the three to see. Regardless, this is my #1 new favorite!

  17. Played my first round with the Russell, an Arctic White and a yellow prototype ball... I think. There wasn't anything on the ball or the single box that said exactly what it was. I do know that thing is LONG. On the first tee I drove it 280 on a 301 from the whites... thankfully, the guys in front of me were finishing up and walking off the BACK of the green (not everyone does that where I play...). It sounds a little hard (maybe clicky is better), but it didn't have any effect on my chipping or putting. It doesn't have "mad spin" (as the kids say), but it does have a dependable hop, hop, short rollout. I guess for comparative purposes, it's close to the One Black, but with a not so mushy feel- especially off the putter face.

     

    The color is NO JOKE. Funny story: I like to go out in my backyard to chip/pitch after work (I work 2nd shift), it helps me unwind. I went out with non-Russell yellow and the Arctic White and had no troubles messing around with it in the moonlight. When I dink around with OEM balls, I usually end up losing sight of them after some time (I do find them in the morning). Not so with these Visions. That same vibrancy came through on the course.

     

    Sadly, I can't do a complete review of the Russell. I lost it down an embankment (I think... I spent the whole 5 minutes and couldn't find it ANYWHERE) on the only hole I used it. Yeah, I don't want to get into that one.

     

    The Arctic White played similar to the yellow, but not as clicky off the face. It was like a camera on the putting greens: point and shoot. I didn't make everything, but I was at least hole high on 2/3 of the holes I used it on. Very impressive. My aim, today anyway, wasn't...

     

    I haven't used the glove. I'm a lefty, so I'm going to wait until I play in the rain to try it out. The hat does exactly what it says. I've used Under Armour and an adidas "always cool" hat, but these don't compare to the Vision... my head truly stayed cool all round. The ball markers are neat- not too big, not too small. It's heavy enough I noticed it in my pocket (it was supposed to be on my hat clip).

     

    Thanks again to Boz for letting me be a part of this. I'm definitely going to review a few more this week.. not sure when (probably the weekend). Maybe next time I'll be able to give out some constructive criticism- I just can't do it with these balls!

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