cnosil
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Test Comments posted by cnosil
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We all love getting a package; especially if it is golf equipment. I won't bore you with the brown cardboard box that the product was shipped in, lets get right to photos of the product and talk about getting it setup.
I posted a teaser photo the other day but here is the complete box which contains both the rangefinder and GPS handheld unit.
Once opened it is obvious this is just packaging to consolidate two products into a single box as the rangefinder and GPS are in their own separate package
Rangefinder Product
Inside the rangefinder package is the rangefinder (battery is inserted in the battery compartment), instructions, lanyard (that I have found where to attach), cleaning cloth, and a carabiner.
H4 Product
The H4 package contains the H4 unit, club tags, belt clip, charger, and carabiner.
Comparison to prior devices (Nikon Laser 500 and Bushnell Neo Ghost)
I was surprised at the sizes of the products when compared to my existing devices. The rangefinder was larger, lighter, but more ergonomically designed. The H4 unit seems very tiny and I am interested to see how easily it can be read on the course.
Upon arrival the H4 was at 0% charge and took 3 hours and 12 minutes to fully charge based on the timer that is displayed when charging.
Quick Thoughts
What I learned is that this isn't really a get the box and run out and use it kind of product: 3+ hours to charge the H4, 10ish minutes to insert the tags, 10ish minutes to download the app and create a dashboard account and map the tags to each club.
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1 hour ago, Samsonite said:
Were you able to connect with our friend? Curious if he'd have any particular advice about what you're experiencing - that must be super frustrating to feel like everything's working EXCEPT this one thing (and kind of an important one at that).
This might be a dumb question, but it's worked for me in the past, so I'll give it a shot: have you tried heads-up putting with this thing?
And as @Grand Strandedsaid so eloquently, it ultimately might not be a match - hitting your line (new to me) isn't enough if you can't get it to the hole consistently. Good luck! Keep letting us know how it goes!
I have not had the opportunity to reach out; been busy with work, most wanted testing at MGS HQ, and actually playing golf. Unfortunately, the one thing not working s probably the most important.
no, I haven’t tried heads up putting with the LAB but I do step off putt distances to help calibrate stroke length. Probably more if a mental focus and having to overcome the prebuilt feelings.
it could be time to give up, but I am stubborn
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I continue to try the 2.1 and wish I had the great success that most on here seem to be having. I can’t say there isn’t anything wrong with the putter and it rolls the ball well. I’ve done the one and two ball drills and can do those successfully. before my league match yesterday I did a lot of practice with thumbs off and even followed that approach during the round which seemed to give me a little better control of the line as I tried to keep my hands completely out of the stroke. The issue is still the mid length distance control with Mid length being 5-15 feet. Inside of that distance I have a good make percentage and outside of that distance I am getting the ball around the hole for easy 2 putts. That mid range putt is the one you really think you should be making but I am struggling to make a long enough stroke to get the ball to the hole.
The difficulty is figuring out if the “problem” is the putter or me. While the answer is definitely me, the caveat is would my prior putter have gotten the ball,to the hole with the same stroke. I’m trying to make a bigger stroke but am I having a mental lapse and can’t make myself make that big of a stroke for the particular length putt? Unfortunately, there really is no way to compare side by side with another putter as there are no do overs in a round. I can hit the putt again with the same or different putter but because I have more knowledge it really isn’t the same. I can’t hit putts side by side on a practice green for the exact same reason; which is why we are told to practice putting with only one ball.
I’ll relay a comment/story I saw from Sean Toulon (Taylormade, Toulon and Callaway/Odyssey) that kind of sums up my thoughts at the moment. Sean was on the practice green at a tour event and got Tiger to try one of the putters. Tiger hit a couple of putts and said nice but it rolls the ball too far. The moral of the story was that players build feels into their game and when you make a stroke of X length the expectation is that the ball will go a certain distance.
For me this putter doesn’t roll the ball far enough based on my experiences and feels. As a result, to be successful with this putter I am going to have to build a stroke to fit the putter. This is kind of the opposite of what I think you do in a fitting where you fit the putter to your stroke. Granted both approaches can work; there just needs to be a time investment in the former and one would need to assess the benefits if going down that road.
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Look what’s starting to arrive in the hands of the testers
- sirchunksalot, GHB1973, GolfSpy AFG and 5 others
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One thing I find interesting about the DF2.1 I don’t get many comments about the size ir shape of the putter, but i get a fair amount of: is that one of those LAB or directed force putters. I guess in the age of larger mallet putters the size and shape isn’t that odd.
Went to the course early before my round to get some time on the driving range but since the range and short game areas were closed I got to spend some extra time on the putting green. Made some more tweaks to my setup and felt like I was able to dial in the performance a little more and was able to take it to the course during my round. No putts over about 30 feet during my round; so I didn’t have an opportunity to test the really long putts, but line and speed control are getting better. I was talking with Harry on Tuesday; he was testing putting mats; and he has been doing some tweaking his putting setup to get the DF2.1 dialed in. For me, this putter seems to fall into the you build a stroke around to fit the putter strategy and not the pick a putter to fit your stroke.
- edingc, sirchunksalot and GrumpyGolf
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I’m looking forward to getting started on this test. I’ve been looking through the website and reading through the owners manual and right now I see it as 3 reviews in one. While it is 3 products in one, it is really 3 products as you can buy/utilize it as 3 separate products.
- rangefinder - obviously going to get into accuracy, how easy it is to lock onto target, visual clarity, etc.
- GPS - the H4 is a handheld GPS that gives front, middle, and back distances and distances to course features. Really interested in seeing how the dynamic approach feature works to give distances based on the angle you are approaching the green. Nothing worse than a gps that gives the same yardages for F/M/B when you are on the side of the green. Obviously battery life will be an important feature for this device.
- Shot tracking - may be my biggest personal interest. will have to dive into the capture of data and the online dashboard and stat keeping. I’ve been reading through the shotscope forum and see that some people are having issues syncing the data. I am an iOS person; hopefully at least one of the other testers is android.
these reviews are done for you the MGS reader. Instead of congratulating us, what about this product interests you, what do you want us to evaluate?
- sirchunksalot, ejgaudette, PMookie and 1 other
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13 minutes ago, mynerds said:
Congrats, and what a beautiful bunch of testers! If you figure out a way to take images of the range finder view, I’ll be deeply impressed!
Do any of you have existing equipment you’ll be able to compare against? Looking forward to the results in any case!
I’ll definitely give it a try of shooting pictures through the rangefinder. Pretty sure it is possible.
i have a 16 year old Nikon rangefinder and a handheld GPS unit to compare against.
- mynerds and GrumpyGolf
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Excited about this test and really looking forward to having to commit to doing stat tracking. I’ve tried some of the apps and writing things on the scorecard but they became too cumbersome with pulling my phone out of my pocket or having to enter all the data after a round.
@Lacassem, I love tech tests as well and I think the evaluation is applicable to everyone unlike club or shaft tests.
- GolfSpy_SHARK, Shankster, GolfSpy AFG and 3 others
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1 minute ago, edingc said:
As far as other mechanical changes, I don't think I changed much. You do need to get used to the shaft being in the center of your stance with the ball forward.
The shaft position in the head/center of stance and ball forward wasn’t a problem for me. Prior to LAB I worked hard on a vertical shaft at setup and the built in forward press has been a huge challenge to overcome both visually and physically because of hand and shoulder positioning.
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5 minutes ago, PMookie said:
Ugh. I’d be worried that I’d lose everything I improved upon when going back to previous putters! Yuck. When you test hitting sequential putts with different putters do you feel a different stroke? If using the sam stroke across putters is contact off-center with the LAB?
I guess if you are putting great with the lab, why go back to any other putter. Hard to judge across putters. If I had a choice I wouldn’t use the grip on the LAB putter as it is bigger than I would prefer. But to answer you question, no contact isn’t off center. The real question is whether the face angle is better. I’ve done some testing across putters on my exputt and maybe face angle is a little better.
3 minutes ago, PMookie said:Ok, same as my Edel from a “no torque” standpoint. Thanks!
You could probably add the Seemore face balanced at impact to this as well. Not sure I have seen a direct answer when comparing to other manufacturers that have a similar concept
- edingc, GrumpyGolf and PMookie
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10 minutes ago, PMookie said:
Just curious, and not trying to stir-up anything, but isn’t picking a line, a speed, etc the same with every putter? Are you conveying a sense of confidence that you didn’t have before? It’s the second time I’ve read a similar quote in this thread and I’m not understanding what y’all are trying to say. Thanks!
It isn’t about picking the line but actually starting the ball on that line. The theory is that with the LAB design and no torque it does a better job of staying square to the arc and therefore is more consistent in starting the ball on your intended target line.
- PMookie and DriverBreaker
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I wish I was having the success everyone else seems to be having with this putter. The putter is fine, just not seeing the improved performance over my other putters.
Listening to the LAB videos on YouTube, they make the point that the way you used to putt may not work since you were compensating for the torque in your old putter. To get where I am I have changed quite a few things about my putting, hand position, grip tension, front/back ball position. Essentially lots of changes for equivalent performance; hoping I start to see the improvements that everyone else seems to be seeing but I have been at it for about 3 months so I am losing some if that optimism.
- Nolan220, DriverBreaker and PMookie
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5 minutes ago, edingc said:
Hah. Well, I think "all of the above," is the best description. From my recollection I'd get too much shaft lean. It would lead to very inconsistent distance control.
I guess for me, I don't have to think about much anymore when putting. I align my ball to my intended target, and then it's just a matter of feeling the right speed from there. I don't even think about grip or setup much anymore. It truly is what I'd love my full swing to feel like - point and shoot.
Makes sense. I spent a lot of time many years ago on setup and pretty much was vertical shaft and able to get in a consistent setup position. One day when Geurin Rife was at HQ, we were taking about putting and he mentioned my setup was good and shaft was vertical at setup and putter perfectly soled. I later started using a Seemore and was pretty much dead on with keeping he shaft between the lines. with the LAB, since the shaft isn’t vertical and the grip is so far forward it really throws off my overall setup and how my arms hang.
- GrumpyGolf, edingc, bens197 and 1 other
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22 hours ago, edingc said:
Before using the DF 2.1 my setup and shaft lean would be all over the place.
21 hours ago, Samsonite said:YES! This is exactly what I experienced last night - for maybe the first time, I had a easily-replicatable (I may have just made that word up) set-up.
prior to the LAB putter were you trying to get vertical shaft at setup or did you setup with some shaft lean? We’re your consistency problems shaft lean, ball position, putter head placement (too close, too, far away, too forward, too back?), something else, or all of the above.
for other testers, as part of your review, address if you feel that you have setup issues from putt to putt and how the LAB address them or hinders them.
- edingc, sirchunksalot and GolfSpy SAM
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25 minutes ago, Bad Hobbit said:
Is there / could there be a section for video reviews by MGS members? I’d love to see some of the testers (or others) make some video reviews of products as possible!
There aren't a lot of limitations to how MGS members deliver reviews and people have done videos as part of their reviews. Issues are technical ability to do quality videos, size of the videos, and the need to host those videos on an external platform.
- Bad Hobbit and brogies
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Love tech products like this.
Have wanted to get into shot tracking and tried things like 18 birdies, the Grint, and myroundpro but didn’t stick with them due to subscriptions or just being cumbersome. I love the cool factor when people post the holes with shot distances and the ability to understand club distances and game weaknesses .
I switched from a rangefinder (now 16 year old Nikon that I use occasionally) to a Bushnell neo ghost GPS which I like a lot but occasionally would like a rangefinder for measuring distances to some hazards or more specific short game distances.
I’ve seen the pro LX+ when I played a round of golf with Harry and it seems like a great product that combines everything into a single small package.
- bens197, tony@CIC, GolfSpy_SHARK and 5 others
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1 minute ago, cksurfdude said:
Duh I just realized there's no "Follow" here like on the main forum threads...
When I look at this page there is a "follow" that you can select.
- sirchunksalot, cksurfdude and bens197
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32 minutes ago, TheProfessor02 said:
That is to say so long as the club is correctly soled on the green, not toe up or toe down it should work as intended.
After playing with a putter you are correct, as long as you sole the putter and adjust your posture the plan remains the same.
- cksurfdude, TheProfessor02 and edingc
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20 minutes ago, TheProfessor02 said:
Maybe I am not understanding this correctly but if the putter is built to apply no torque along the axis of the shaft I do not see how it matters at all where your hands/ball is located whether your swinging on a flat lie or if you were swinging directly out in front of you with the head 90 degrees to the ground in either scenario the putter face would stay square to path/arc. You are never actually changing the angle on which the putter is balanced seeing as it is attached to the putter head. You are just changing the plane on which the system is swinging which should have no affect on the club face. So long as you can place the putter head on the ground behind the ball it should be point and shoot.
I think it depends on how you make the adjustment. Are you just make the adjustment with your wrists or are you also altering your posture. As you indicated is the toe or heel coming up and how much which goes back to my original point of raising and/or lowering the hands at setup. And I could be totally wrong but this putter isn’t point and shoot for me.
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1 hour ago, TheProfessor02 said:
Very interesting and definitely something I would love to see tested. What experience did you have with different lie angles used? Seeing as the putter is made to stay square on where it is aimed, thinking about how the putter does not produce any torque along the shaft axis I do not see how the ball being above or below your feet would affect how the face stays square to target. The only thing that would change is the position of your hands relative to a flat lie but again the face should still produce no torque pulling the face away from where it is aimed.
With the different lie angles the feel of the putter changed and it felt like it was fighting my movements. Can’t speak a lot to performance since they were tested on a flat surface and at only a few distances.
it is made to stay square to the path/arc; not the target, based on the lie angle, If I raise or lower my hands I change the plane on which the putter moves. The putters; and no torque aspect, are balanced to the lie angle they are built too so if I setup with a different lie angle it does impact how the putter moves and in my opinion the direction the face points at impact.
if you look in the B.2 test topic, @Shankstermentions that hand position was crucial to his performance.
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11 minutes ago, TheProfessor02 said:
My understanding would be that while the lie angle would change measured from perfectly level based on slope so would the balance of the putter keeping the balance effectively inline with the slope that the ball is sitting on. I also remember hearing that the lie angle and length are largely there to get the player comfortable at setup and aren't necessarily the be all end all for performance.
I am thinking ball about everything and below feet type scenarios, not a slope that would still be considered flat.
this below statement; copied from their site, doesn’t imply that it is about comfort:
Through an in-person fitting or Remote (online) Fitting, a certified L.A.B. Golf fitting expert will determine the exact length, lie angle, grip, shaft type, and alignment aids necessary to take your putting game to new heights. From there, we will build your putter to order with our proprietary Lie Angle Balancing process, which ensures that your putter is Lie Angle Balanced to your stroke.
Having tried various lie angles for LAB putters, my experience has been lie angle is more than just comfort as the putter performs differently as lie angle changes . -
I’ll ask the question here since I have a 2.1 and wanted your thought, but I think it applies to all the models.
LAB makes a big deal about getting the right length and lie angle to enable them to build the putter directly and have the putter return to square at impact. I interpret their position to mean that if the putter is not correctly fit there will be performance problem. In the world of flat that would be something desirable, but on real greens there are slopes and the ball may be slightly higher or lower which means that our hands become higher or lower at setup to account for the slope. Doesn’t this break the whole concept of lie angle balance and would that impact the face angle at impact?
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49 minutes ago, Shankster said:
I had my hands a little too high at set up, but now I’m thinking I should have gone with the flatter lie angle as initially suggested…
Trying various lie angles of these putters, I can confirm that the wrong lie angle just doesn't flow through the stroke like it should. My guess is that when you lowered your hands the stroke felt different.
- bens197 and sirchunksalot
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2
Shot Scope ProLX +
Posted
Doing a little more investigation with the shotscope this morning. Things like making sure I have the latest version of courses downloaded and understanding the features and options.
Things encountered:
Update: was searching some more online and found the answer:
This article will explain what the Tags option in the Settings menu does. This article is relevant to V3, V2, H4 and the ProLx+.
Tags (V3,H4 and ProLx+) and Tag Read (V2) are diagnostic tools we have added to our Settings menu to test whether a tag is being detected within the required range of the watch. The watch should be able to detect tags within 8cm when the watch is worn on the wrist. There can be instances where a tag struggles to be detected by the watch. If you noticed after uploading several rounds of data that one of your tags is not being detected then we recommend you undertake a tags test. Please email us at support@shotscope.com for instructions on how to conduct the tags test.
The blue grip is an Iomic Sticky grip which has a flat top so the tags sit flush....basically perfect
. The bottom right is essentially golf pride tour velvet which has a a slight curve on the top so the tag sits away on the edges. The bottom left is my Lab putter and due to the shaft lean one side sits up slightly even though the top of the grip is flat.
Hoping to use all the toys on Sunday, but if the course doesn’t get mapped I will get some good use from the rangefinder since the course I am playing has some elevation changes so the slope feature will get some good use. For reference where I live is 15 feet above sea level and most course meander through wood lined fairways and have little significant elevation changes