cnosil

Great thread; simply because I love talking about putters, putting fittings, putting skills, and everything putting I've done multiple fittings over the years: the basic loft/lie evaluation that just checks if the putter is flat on the ground and if you press the shaft, an Edel fitting, iPing app, Golf Galaxy Biomech, Tomi, and multiple Puttlab fittings. I have worked with a putting specific coach that taught me a lot about putters and how to help figure out the right putter for how you swing the putter. I have also read a lot off Geoff Mangum's work who will say the putter really doesn't matter and it is all the player. As a most wanted tester for MGS I have been exposed to a lot of different putters and been able to personally evaluate their performance. I kind of fall somewhere in the middle of the putter vs. person perspective. Now for your questions: 1. From my experience I have a pretty good idea of what putter might work for me so I am comfortable buying off the shelf. Since I love putters, I simply like to try different designs and configurations so I buy putters for a variety of reasons; performance isn't always a main driver. 2. When I am experimenting with putters to decide on them I do a couple of things which help me evaluate a few of the putting skills (aim, touch, and stroke.....read isn't putter related). When testing a putter without tech I simply put a dime about 17" inches in front of the ball and attempt to roll balls over the dime. This helps to evaluate aim and start line. So depending on perspective about putting, the putter doesn't matter so you should be able to do this with any putter or the design features of the putter (neck, offset, weight, headshape, etc) will impact your ability to roll over the center of the dime. For touch, I put something about 20 feet away and attempt to stop balls on the object. If the object is a ball I should be able to bump the balls into each other squarely. From my experience doing MGS testing I find that insert or face doesn't really impact touch skills. I do find that some designs are easier to aim than others. And depending on the design dispersion patterns will vary. If I am looking for the putter that will best help my game, I look at how well I can control start line and dispersion.

I just laughed at @Jim Shaw picture because it reminded me of a story my Sister in law told me. When she was moving to Kansas the realtor mentioned the "beach" which she found puzzling since Kansas is in the middle of the country. The realtor then told her that it was the local water park. It is all perspective and what you are used too. To me the below is the "beach"

Unless you have budget constraints and want a shaft under a certain cost.

Looks like fun but pretty cold. The sand on your beach is very coarse Interesting seeing peoples terminology for things; The beaches I go too all have sand so I am just completely puzzled when you say "beach"

I guess the question is what you are looking for with regards to consistency. IMO , the driver is intended to be a max distance type club and if you try to swing it with less speed you will create more issues. Not being committed is a mental game issue. If I pull driver it is swing normal swing no matter what.

Focus on the ball or a spot on the ball; quiet eye approach. Or simply putt with your eyes closed like you do during practice.

I'd look at spin; especially when you drop swing speed. My guess is that influences your delivery which reduces spin which creates the snap hook ballflight.

Putting has, but measurements take longer to assess. People want benefits to show up in one round, but with putting the measurement needs to occur over a season. If you read the book Lowest Score Wins, they categorize areas of the game that help separate players (https://lowestscorewins.com/separation-value) and putting falls near the bottom. Think about a 3 foot putt; you can practice them all day every day but you probably won't make significantly more than someone that never practices them. As for tech and fitting, they have shown improvement in putting. There is better understanding of launch angle, that the face is the influence for ball direction and path has minimal influence, that there are stroke categorizations and they have specific putter configurations that benefit the player, you can measure how different putter configurations influence ball direction. Unfortunately most people dismiss anything putter tech with the response that it is a small slow stroke and it doesn't matter or that they are a "feel" player. I believe this response goes back to my first statement. ShotScope metrics get very deep; which is why I stopped using them....way too much detail than I needed at my game level. If you haven't already, start reading the shotscope user group on the forum and ask questions, lots of people that can help you understand the stats being displayed.

There is a thread on this topic:

If you are doing ShotScope, you don't need to do the Haney or Tiger metrics; it is covered in ShotScope performance details.

Kind of helps assess if you have course management issues, doesn't tell you how to do course management. Course Management for amateurs really came into the forefront with Mark Brodie's book. We also see younger professionals getting better with course management. If we as amateurs understood course management we wouldn't aim at pins, we wouldn't hit hero shots, we would hit the ball as far as possible off the tee, etc. You could start doing detailed stat tracking to better understand where your weaknesses are. The stat tracking systems will give you strokes gained for tee shots, approach game, short game, and putting. It will also break down your performance by club. If you do the Tiger 5 you still have to do some assessment of why those things happened. I played 9 holes yesterday and I had 2 doubles, 1 blown easy save, and 3 bogeys inside 150. My notes were penalty off the tee, hero shot instead of pitching out, and wedge play 60-100 yards. The wedge play wasn't due to bad course management, they were just poor shots and I need to work on hitting my wedges better. How do you currently understand/"see" where you need to improve?

Thanks for the clarification; sounded like you were feeling a difference in how the putter moved through the stroke since you were describing things like the neck and toe hang. The question would then be if the visual and feel elements are just subjective things or if they have an influence on performance. Based on your numbers you seem to be getting better results; which is good. Wish we could translate it to see if the improved aim also improves your face at impact consistency.

https://golf.com/instruction/tiger-woods-genius-lowering-scores-play-smart/

Didn't you measure the driver shafts? How'd they compare to the listed values?

That is round data since it is captured via shotlink. I haven't seen any actual numbers for pros dispersion during practice for anything other than driver. Here is Rory and JT hitting one hundred 148 yard shots to make a hole in one. You can see their dispersion pattern and percentages on how close the shots were. Here is some data from Lou Stagner showing amateurs hitting 110 yard shots during practice.

That's kind of the point. As you know OEMs provide numbers and flex letters and we have no idea how they are measured or determined so unless you know how they are measured you really can't evaluate the number.

Interesting that you "feel" the change. Makes me think you are trying to manipulate the putter during the stroke. What do you focus on (hands, head, face angle, something else?) when you are making a stroke?

Hope they get you repaired sooner rather than later. Definitely tough not being able to do things.

For the short game you can watch the Dan Grieve youtube channel. He has some great videos.....IMO yep. Went to HQ on Tuesday and hit some balls. That went pretty well. We were short players on my golf league team yesterday so since Tuesday went well I said I would play......kicked my butt; I was sore and worn out after the round and still a little sore today. I think it is going to take a little time to get myself back into shape

where they measured the same way?

Automatically. They will filter ads on all websites unless you turn it off or exclude the site. I never see ads on my laptop; I need to get an adblocker for my ipad.

Not judging, but if your expectation is to hit 8/10 shots from each of those distances to 10 feet you might be setting expectations a little high. Maybe if you are doing block practice but it still seems to be an aggressive goal. PGA Tour proximity from fairway: 100: 18' 5" 125: 21' 5" 135: 22' 6" https://forum.practical-golf.com/t/proximity-to-the-hole/803

Hope you feel better soon. At least you have the forum to help mitigate the stir craziness. room big enough to take practice swings and work on your game

They are simply numbers to track as a trend. I use post round analysis to determine what my issues were during the round and where I need to work. For example if I had multiple 3 putts I look at why. Generally my issue is short game related and my primary focus for improvement. I don't personally think I need detailed stat track for my skill level; simple notes on the round is plenty.

There are going to be multiple Bridgestone ball tests. I believe the first was 1 dozen balls and the second was 2 dozen and required the use of shotscope.