Undershooter
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Posts posted by Undershooter
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2 hours ago, ChuckZ said:
FYI have tried all the brands since I started playing golf in 1985 and finally settled on Titleist. Even with the 50% discount offered to veterans not a fan of the PXG. Have hit them and they just do not feel right. The good thing about golf, we have the opportunity to find the brand that fits our game. Do not always go with the newer clubs. Am currently playing the TSI3 driver with a Fujikura Speeder 661TR S. Great distance and accuracy. At 77 have gotten 270 with the new Prov1 golf ball. Norm is 220-250 range. Have great fitters and the Titleist clubs fit my game. Do not work for Titleist, but am a loyalist to the brand because of the quality and customer service. Like most I pay for all my equipment for a Titleist retailer locally in Mt Pleasant, David Ayres Lowcountry Golf.
I have nothing against Titleist and play their wedges and ball. I'm fairly brand agnostic though as I currently have 6 different manufacturer's clubs in my bag. I've never owned or wanted a PXG club either btw.
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57 minutes ago, ChuckZ said:
My apologizes, guess I missed the post date. Stand by my position regarding Titleist.
No worries and I'd expect nothing less from someone repping Titleist.
C16 was conveniently released just 3 years after PXG made an appearance and had some success in the "premium" club market though if memory serves.
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On 7/22/2023 at 10:17 AM, ChuckZ said:
That driver is from 2016/2017. Concept Drivers
Pushing the boundaries of premium materials and the latest club technologies, C16 Drivers bring designs from our lab to your golf bag for more distance and more forgiveness than any driver we’ve ever created.
Available Lofts (RH Only): 9.0°, 10.5°
MSRP: $1,125
Limited quantity
Was not made to compete with PXG. Parsons is in a world of his own. Titleist has been around making golf balls since 1932 and golf clubs since 1984, when they released the original metal driver.
I'm fairly certain that I was aware this driver was from 2016, since the post you quoted was in fact from August of.... 2016
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As for most things fantasy or pick-em, I'm in. Ready for more mediocrity!
- EasyPutter, fixyurdivot and GolfSpy_APH
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On 12/21/2022 at 8:40 AM, shootmyage said:
the magic words from the masters was " the 2023 masters tournament " and " our current criteria " .
we will see how deep in the pockets of the pga tour augusta is in 2024
Not nearly as deep as the pockets of the Saudis, so I'm not really sure your point?
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2 hours ago, cardia10 said:
They have a pension account. He was mentioning the cash account which Monahan has told players in the past that it was restricted and couldn't be used for purses and caddie support. Recently, they players have found out that was a lie. That is a part of why many have went to LIV. Monahan is as big or bigger problem than Norman and his leadership is honestly the sole reason LIV exists. Sadly Rory and Tiger as so far up his rear end, nothing will change, except for the very top players and more players will continue to migrate to LIV.
Phil's tweet actually mentioned all of the tour's major holdings. The cash making up the smallest portion of that, which is mostly the tour's emergency reserve. They used nearly half of it during the pandemic if I remember correctly. Would you suggest an organization of their size not have money saved away to continue operations during times like covid?
Players went to liv for fat guaranteed paychecks. This has been discussed extensively over the last hundred pages of the thread. I don't love Jay, but he's hardly comparable to third leg Greg.
- RickyBobby_PR, LICC and chisag
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3 hours ago, shootmyage said:
https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/11/29/phil-mickelson-tiger-woods-pga-tour-loan-liv-golf/
excellent link in what phil said .
like i said before norman is the best person liv can have running things , he is not a pga bobble head , if i was a spokesman for the pga like rm/tw i would want him gone,also , i don't know why , i guess they can't handle the power norman has and norman's dislike for the pga ., other than that i don't know why they hate him .
norman is worth 500 million , has been successful in everything he has done , i would be afraid of him too .
What Phil said is true, but where does he think his fat pension will be coming from? They don't just pull that money out of thin air.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/hundreds-of-pro-golfers-have-over-1-million-in-their-pga-tour-retirement-accounts-2019-04-24This article from over 3 years ago states that "Over 600 pro golfers currently have more than $1 million in their retirement plans, and some have significantly more." The large majority of the tour's money is tied up in pensions and properties owned by the TPC network.
18 hours ago, GaDawg said:Tiger put his foot in his mouth. He needs to do some research prior to shooting off while not knowing the facts. "Took out a loan", what a joke.
Tiger may have phrased his loan comments poorly, but the tour did essentially borrow money from their reserves to keep things running. I wouldn't call that a joke when compared to some of the other BS being spouted the last year. Surely you jest haha
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22 minutes ago, cardia10 said:
It is hard to jump on LIV if they are using bots. Just 6 months ago, the PGA tour told players there wasn't enough money for increased purses and caddy assistance, and not they are paying to show up. It is ugly both ways sadly and now before the next defections, LIV has half of the last 5 years worth of major winners.
1. What do bots have to do with the tour's purses, and why can't we blame liv for using them? That doesn't make sense.
2. Can you cite your sources on "PGA tour told players there wasn't enough money for increased purses"? Because this article from 1 year ago says the opposite. https://golf.com/news/pga-tour-massive-purse-increases-2022/
Not to mention Monahan announced at the 2020 Players Championship that purses would be going up over the next few years due to their TV deal being finalized.
- LICC and GolfSpy_APH
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On 11/2/2022 at 8:49 AM, Headhammer said:
So true. Here is a tweet from Phil with 500+ responses, so far. A quick looks shows that the responses are split 50/50 positive/negative. One thing is certain that there are now bots designed to negatively respond to anything LIV that is posted on twitter. I see the same accounts post "no one cares" to every LIV post I see.
You realize that liv has been using bots for months for the exact same thing right? Not just twitter btw, but also on FB, Youtube, and IG.
I'm not saying that the use of bots is right for either side, but its a bit hypocritical if liv, or their fans have an issue with it after doing it for months. -
2 hours ago, shootmyage said:
"Reed hasn’t won a tournament in almost two years, Phil can’t beat the players on liv and can’t make a cut on the pga tour and when he does he finishes near the bottom."
i did say phil is ( over the hill ) , at 52 years i still think he could make the cut 50% of the time in a pga event .
he should ( since callaway put him on hold ) dump them , get tm stealth d/fw woods , srixon irons , sc putter , he is a great golfer
with the pga 500k pay checks we are going to see pga players that we don't even follow starting to win more and more as the $$$ will take away a lot of their money problems ..
FIGJAM is struggling to finish in the top half of liv events, yet you think he'd make 50% of his cuts on the PGA tour? He's only finished inside the top 34 on liv twice in 7 events, and his only made cut on the PGA tour this year was at the Sentry TOC. It was a no cut event, and he beat a total of 6 players out of 38.
Someone who has struggled to beat more than 14 guys a week in liv events, and less than that in PGAT events isn't likely to have any sustained success on the PGAT. Especially as he continues to age.
Phil is a hall of famer and an all time great, but he's not a good competitive golfer anymore. A similar thing can be said about a number of guys on liv.
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On 10/12/2022 at 11:00 AM, shootmyage said:
like i have said on this forum 30-50 years from now people will always read books about- b. jones - b. hogan - s. sneed - a. palmer - j. nicklaus - g. player - l. trevino - tiger woods , they are golf history makers ..i would add phil mickelson as he has had a very crazy career , unlike any others
players people will be saying--- rory who , billy who , cameron who .etc etc ,
Bruh, this has got to be a bot... right?
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29 minutes ago, sixcat said:
Multiple reputable sources reporting the OWGR will deny World Ranking points for MENA events, thus allowing LIV to file a lawsuit against OWGR. Which seems to be the point of using MENA as a proxy to fight a war against OWGR.
Oh, I in no way see this partnership getting them points immediately, but I understand why they did it. I'm also not sure what grounds they'd have for a suit, since there is still no way to qualify for liv and there are no 2022 events scheduled on the MENA tour.
Even if they did get OWGR points, liv would complain about the max 12 points that developmental tours receive in wins.
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Surprised nobody has mentioned the new "strategic alliance" between liv and the MENA Tour. Personally, I don't understand why they did this with a basically semi defunct tour instead of the Asian tour, but I can appreciate the effort.
https://twitter.com/jcorrigangolf/status/1577642342164488192?s=20&t=Glh8zvDHfMRlcRUe1dtUNw
- ryan.mzzz and MGoBlue100
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31 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:
Perhaps the players have, instead of going to Twitter for their legal advice, listened instead to that noted legal authority Greg Norman. Isn't he the one who told them that their contract with the PGA Tour was unenforceable in the first place?
He indeed did tell them as much. I'm sure they'd been told Greg's legal sources were top notch.
In reality, Greg's legal sources: Trust me bro
- DaveP043 and GolfSpy_APH
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4 hours ago, DaveP043 said:
This could explain why more and more players are dropping out of the original anti-trust lawsuit against the PGA Tour, If they're not a party to the initial suit, perhaps their LIV contracts may not be subject to discovery in the Tour's counter-suit against LIV and the players. To me, those LIV/player contracts seems to be pretty relevant to both suits.
According to golf twitter personality and lawyer Will Bardwell, their withdrawals will have virtually no effect on discovery.
https://twitter.com/willbardwell/status/1574778002843516929?t=51FVrxCTXmkDpioRGLPLqA&s=19
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6 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:
Sorry can't help myself. Read an article (not going to bother finding it again) however P Reed is just a goof. Of course when he joined he was all about joining because it enabled him to spend more time with family and he was saying how much of a grind the tour had been, blah blah blah. Yet he has played 5 weeks in September. I know we all know those talking points are a load of it, but common this one really takes it for me.
In fairness, I'd want to get away from Justine as much as possible too.
- BIG STU, GolfSpy_APH, chisag and 1 other
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18 hours ago, Chip Strokes said:
i think the OWGR is due for a review anyway. the board is rife with conflicts of interest and how does the BMW PGA winner receive less points than the winner of the fortinet?
im not saying LIV deserves points yet. just that there are a LOT of things in professional golf that probably need a second look.
The new OWGR criteria bring into account the depth of field much more than they used to, so fields can't be as heavily weighted by a couple of top tier players showing up. The middle and bottom end of the field is much more important now than the prior iteration of OWGR. Limited field events also receive a lot less points now too.
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6 minutes ago, Thin2win said:
LIV London is a once a year event with a limited field. Not only does Hero get OWGR points, it gets more then most PGA tour events. That is a great exception. As you mentioned, their are PGA events without cuts, and the WGC events (which were not PGA Tour events, but limited field invite only) also got points, and a lot more then PGA Tour events. Winning the WGC match play awarded 3x more points to Scottie then the Barracuda awards its winner.
The issue I see, is that the PGA Commissioner sits on the OWGR ruling board. They have granted lots and lots of exceptions over the years, for events that help strengthen the PGA Tour: Hero, WGC, PGA China, The Olympics, Sentry TOC etc...
The OWGR ruling board has setup their rules, and they are well defined. Those rules are setup, and exceptions are granted, by the entities that have the most to gain. The PGA, the DPWT and the Majors were able to say that any event that doesn't match the exact format of their event doesn't qualify for points that they award. This could be argued as Anti-Trust under "Rule of Reason".
That is part of the current anti trust lawsuit that is filed. So, it isn't a remote chance, it is currently happening. I'm not sure if it will succeed, but I understand that argument. The PGA Tour gets to act as judge jury and executioner in this manner.
It is comparable, and here is that comparison from the DG field strength website. The PGA tour has more players for sure, and its average strength of field is still higher, but not by much. LIV has had a stronger field each event, and that is with its players losing OWGRs each week.
The Puerto Rico open is by far the weakest field, with Corales, Barbasol and Barricuda also being particularly week. OWGR rankings are given out at each event based on the strength of the field(exceptions to the majors, and Players Championship). Based on that, LIV should award OWGR points at about the same level as Pebble beach or the Fortinet.
I think the issue that the PGA runs here is that none of the other tours are considered a competitor tour. The PGA has a partnership with every tour listed on the OWGR site. So by it and the other board members creating a system that prevents anything other then what they are doing to be awarded points what they will need to explain in court. If its a good explanation then great, but it needs to be done. Again, arguing that the Hero, WGC's, Sentry TOC, and Olympics are worth an exception but that LIV events are not.
You mention that LIV events are exhibition golf. I'm curious what that means to you? I've heard that repeated on many podcast, but I don't understand it. LIV plays by all the rules of the USGA and R&A, all players use conforming equipment, and events are played on rated golf courses. What makes their events exhibition vs competitive for you?
@RickyBobby_PR@GolfSpy_APH@LICC I have read the OWGR rules and regs, I've read the 106 page court filing. I agree that LIV doesn't meet the Regs, but I see the hypocrisy in how those regulations are enforced. The OWGR board got together and has granted those exceptions repeatedly for events that benefit them. Sentry TOC, Fedex Cup Championship, Olympics, WGC, Hero, etc. The OWGR board set up a system, defined the rules, and then gave themselves an exception to those rules every time they wanted one. If the OWGR board had denied all those exceptions, LIV would have no ground to stand on and I would agree them asking for an exception would be silly. But those exception are the precedent here, that is what bothers me about it.
You keep skipping over the fact that all of the events you bring up, have to the ability to be qualified for. Play well enough and you can gain entry to them. There is no way to qualify for liv other than Greg giving you a spot.
Not to mention, you are bringing up exceptions to the rule. The events you mention are around 10% of the PGAT schedule. LIV would need an exception for literally every single one of their events, not a couple of them. They don't have a single tournament that follows the OWGR guidelines. Why should an exception be made for their entire business model?
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2 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:
It’s a non sanctioned event. There’s no FedEx cup points awarded for it and no official prize money. It’s just on their calendar.
Correct. Unofficial or not, it's recognized by the tour since the late 2000s. Possibly the same year it first received OWGR points, but I could be mistaken there.
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15 hours ago, Thin2win said:
I also see the legal anti trust issues with how the OWGRs are setup. Take LIV out of it, say Tiger Woods teamed up with some other billionaire. They want to put together a limited field event with no cut and give lots of money to charity. Should it get OWGR points? Hello Hero World Challenge.
The Hero World Challenge waited 9 years to get OWGR points iirc, despite being a PGA tour event. Not to mention, players have the ability to qualify for the event through their OWGR ranking, and then the remainder of the field is filled through sponsors exemptions.
There is no qualifying for LIV events via OWGR. Greg chooses his fields.
With that said, I don't think the Hero deserves OWGR points. Thanks to the new OWGR system changing how they give points, they'll get very few going forward.
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3 hours ago, PeterHenric said:
The PGA needs to keep their big names, absolutely. But there will be no tour with only big names. You have to focus on both the big and little names at the same time. I know they did some things for the little guys but they probably could have done more.
I work in construction and look at it like this: I need my foreman just as much as I need the rest of the guys on the crew. Without both of them, the work is not going to get done.2 hours ago, PeterHenric said:Because of your perceived notion that I am this big Pro LIV guy and that they can do no wrong, you misread what I said. I was not referring to LIV in any way, shape, or form. I was responding to what Hahn was saying about the PGA taking care of the big names and neglecting the little guys.
I actually agree strongly that LIV is jacking the little names as soon as they get new names to fill the spots. The only bright side that I think I see is that the people getting the boot are from the Asian Tour where they didn't get black listed. They can go back to their tours (at least I think so).
Hahn's entire point of view is extremely short sighted imo. The PGAT is in essence taking care of the little guy by doing what they are, because the little guys have nowhere to go if all the best players leave for liv. The Tour's TV contract crumbles, and the fan support falls off the face of the earth. People don't show up to see the Hahns of the world, they come for the big names.
His issue with non-elevated events being made irrelevant with the new schedule doesn't hold a lot of water either, since those events are already pretty irrelevant. 3M, John Deere, Barbasol, and Sanderson for example are all generally snoozers because they lack star power.
Keith Mitchell made a great point on the NLU pod by saying, what if you rotated those type of events to "elevated" once every 5 years. The sponsor would get so much more out of that than randomly getting a top 20 player or 2 every couple of years, if their schedule worked out perfectly. -
Fantasy Golf This Year
in General Q&A
Posted
I believe Poprocks and myself are willing to be Commissioners of the league if there is interest in it, but I'm not sure if there is enough since it won't be forum official.
We can turn it into a cash league if folks want or do it just for fun. Whatever people prefer.