IONEPUTT
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Posts posted by IONEPUTT
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22 hours ago, Golfspy_Lukes said:
Im done here.
Clearly you like arguing against years of science and R&D and just ignore basic facts when presented to you
Ill post this link one more time so that anyone coming in hear looking for factual information doesn't get thrown off with your ignorance
I'm all for discussion and debate. But not when the person on the other side refuses to acknowledge facts and science
CG is a tool. Loft is a tool. These things must be used in a fitting to give the player an optimal launch angle to deliver the optimal launch angle without excess bouncing our skipping. The same CG and loft DOES NOT work for everyone
https://www.quinticballroll.com/Quintic_Ball_Roll_Launch_Angle.html
Sorry to hurt your feeling, But it is YOU that is ignorant on this matter> I looked at putter designs and I built a putter with a high CG and then tested it against the top OEM putters and what I found from my testing is that my high CG putter was better at getting the ball rolling on the green than the low CG models the top OEM's are selling. You claim that I am the ignorant one here but the truth is I did the testing with a high CG putter and YOU have not. As we all know, there are not a lot of high CG putters on the market which is why I'm pretty sure you have not done any testing yourself and you are the onw that is ignorant, NOT ME.
I'm Glad you are done here because I'm tired of arguing with people who have NOT done any testing and just repeat what others have told them.
- cksurfdude and TylorJudd
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7 minutes ago, Golfspy_Lukes said:
Which is why OEMs created adjustable necks.
That's fine if you want to get new woods and you like rotating the shaft to change the angles, But I for one do not like todays clubs that require the golfer to rotate the shaft as that messes up the spine and FLO alignment of the shaft and that can ruin the performance of what WAS a pretty good club.
And not every own wants or needs to go out a buy all new woods. Cost is one factor to consider for most golfers these days.
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On 1/18/2023 at 9:12 PM, Cullen said:
I’ve always said that it’s the biggest scam in golf that companies can use whatever loft they want to make their irons. Nobody really talks about the fact that they do the same thing with lie angles.
I got fit for new irons when I was a 15 handicap, so naturally my swing was very steep and over the top. I got fit for 2 degrees upright from standard (Mizuno Jpx 921 forged). I am now a 5 handicap and trying to really dial in swing mechanics. I just recently figured out that there was no possible way I could compress the ball correctly (with my swing at least) with clubs that upright. I was subconsciously having to open the face to keep the ball flight straight. No wonder I was over spinning every club! For example, each club was going about 2 clubs shorter than they should have been. I’m about a 110-115 swing speed with driver and was hitting 6 iron 165. I experimented with flattening the lie angles in my irons and I was able to keep clubface closed properly without the fear of hooking the ball. Closed clubface= Less loft and less spin. I’m finally able to control ball flight and spin, as a higher swing speed player. I’m carrying that 6 iron about 185-190 now.
I’m now learning that most of golfs best ball strikers throughout history have used flatter lie angles. Flatter lie angles promote a more shallow swing in order to keep a straighter ball flight. The opposite is true with upright lie angles, like I mentioned above.
The point of this post is to hopefully help someone else out with a similar problem. I think it’s so important to understand the specs of the clubs you are using. And when it’s time for new clubs you can make decisions based on your specs from previous clubs. Each brand is very different in that category which is why we hit certain brands better than others. In reality we could just pay attention to loft and lie angles that work best for us and bend irons and wedges to those specs.
Yes, I do think you should get fit for clubs. But, I am a firm believer that our swing will adapt to the clubs we are using. Brands tend to have more upright lie angles now because the average golfer swings more over the top, so their target market is much greater because of that. It’s business. Flatter lie angles will promote a more sound swing. Even if it takes some time.
Let me know what you guys think!
The same can be said about woods as well. At least with irons and wedges it's pretty easy to have the lie anlge bent up or down if you need to. But with a fairway wood with an muc shorter hosel length it near impossible to bend the lie angle it you need it. Most golfers are stuck with what the factory gives them.
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23 hours ago, Golfspy_Lukes said:
CG is 3-dimensional.
CG, even if centered laterally on the club face, is still 2-dimentional. A CG low and forward can create the same launch parameters as a CG high and back. And on a putter we are talking about millimeters.
Now, CG depth (forward and back) can have an impact on horizontal launch direction on off center hits, but that is not what we are talking about. We are talking about vertical launch angle - and that can be influenced in putter construction by altering: 1) loft, face/groove construction, CG height, and CG depth
bottom line and the whole point of my posts is WHY would anyone build a putter with a low CG when we know a low CG will cause the ball to go Up and then bounce and skid when it lands which usually causes the ball to roll off line and may even cause the ball to come up short of the cup? I just don't see any reason for a low Cg in a putter and yet most all putters built today have a low CG. Just makes no sense.
- RickyBobby_PR and cksurfdude
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On 1/26/2023 at 12:43 PM, GolfSpy_APH said:
Here is a thread for further putter cg chat.
Touches on some other aspects, but id at least in line with what you want to discuss it talk about.
I was talking about the up and down CG of the putter, NOT, the toe to heel CG of a putter. Two very different things in terms of how a putter will perform. I build my putters with a HIGh CG for better roll and the CG tow to heel is in the center as I always use a straight back and forward putter stroke, not a arc stroke. For those that use and arc stroke some believe the putter should be toe heavy.
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7 hours ago, Golfspy_Lukes said:
Ah I see. This is a sales and marketing thing
Physics disagres with you
https://www.quinticballroll.com/Quintic_Ball_Roll_Launch_Angle.html
https://www.scienceandmotion.com/download/docs/fundamentals/The Fundamentals of Putting4.pdf
Again YOU are so wrong in what you are posting. And it's NOT about sales and marketing, as I do not build my putter for sale, I build them for my own use and as presents for a few of my friends and customers. NOT for sales.
Also, if you look at the second link you might see that they talk about CG, and that is what I'm talking about. My putter has loft and ith has a high CG, both of which help to get the ball rolling and not pop up into the air too much, which is exaxtly what all the other putter designs do. Bottom line is that my putter design works better than the others out there, And I've tested it and had over a dozen PGA golf pros test it as well and they all agree that my puter rolls the ball better than what they have in their bags.
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3 hours ago, TylorJudd said:
Were you putting with a wedge at some point? This seems like a lot of trauma about a minute amount of loft. Without static loft on the putter, the ball will struggle to lift out of the dimple it has created and sitting in on the green. Negative static loft is just as detrimental.
I don't believe we were speaking of loft, rather high or low CG. As for loft, my putter design has 4* of loft to get the ball out of the small depression it sits in on the green, but then the high CG causes the ball to roll rather than be launched up into the air, like just about every other putter will do becuase of the low CG of the head. My putter just rolls the ball better for more on line putts that go in the cup more often.
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6 hours ago, cnosil said:
Why did you quote me to post this? doesnt seem related to what I said.
Sorry about that, I didn't mean to quote you. My mistake.
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6 hours ago, Golfspy_Lukes said:
Actually you do want launch. It's just a matter, just like fitting any club, of being fit. Ball launching higher due to low CG means you just need to play a lower loft.
I suggest watching one of the great TXG putting fitting videos. They do a great job of explaining optimal launch by marrying up CG, loft and the players stroke
NO I don't. I want the ball to roll as soon as possible. Maybe YOU want to launch the ball into the air but I don't and I don't know anyone that does. And that is why when I designed my putter I built it with a High CG to roll the ball and NOT launch it up into the air, and it's why my putter design rolls the ball batter than any putter that I have tried and I have tried dozens of them over the last 212 years. I had a dozen golf instructors try my putter and every one of them preferred my [utter over theirs. My design just rolled the ball better than theirs, which is what they all wanted in a putter.
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Has anyone here tried hitting UP on the ball since watching this video and if so what do you think of the tip?
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23 hours ago, cnosil said:
I had the opportunity to roll one and it does roll the ball well. The best description I heard was that it looks like trex decking material and as a result it doesn't look very polished.
Would I buy one; No.
It's just more LOW CG putter when we all know that a low CG is good for getting the ball UP in the air and last time I checked that is NOT what you want to do when putting. So I big fat NO for me.
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23 hours ago, Javs said:
https://lagolf.co/products/the-la-golf-putter-experience
LA Golf has a new putter claiming to be ground breaking. However, the cost is also just as ground breaking. Not sure I would go there, would you?
can buy a can of spray paint in any color I want for about $3.00 so why would I or anyone else pay $2500 for a paint job? Not sure how Paint that has been around for thousands of years can be called ground breaking technology? This is just one more reason I think L.A. Golf has their heads up their butts.
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22 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:
This guy suggests a similar drill that focuses on a spot behind the ball. Coming over the top is something many struggle with and there seems to be many, many techniques and swing drills aimed at correcting it.
Iv'e watch a few of Paul Wilson's videos over the years and I even have one of the first books he wrote years ago. And I fine his tips and drills to be very good and they work quite well. I would say to give this tip a try if you have an over the top swing and see if it works for you as it did for his students. Well worth the time to try it.
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On 1/15/2023 at 6:54 AM, fixyurdivot said:
It was GC Quad. I never removed the silver dots from my driver face and their still intact (well, mostly so) 2+ years later
. Do you know whether GC Quad tends to read to the negative or positive side and by how much?
Because I had just acquired the G410P (forum tester), I wasn't wanting to invest in any new heads. He did see better numbers wit the KBS vs. stock Alta CB shaft, and I subsequently picked one up. I also asked about the 9 deg and whether we should adjust that up... but he didn't think that was needed.
One of my focus areas for this season is distance gain, particularly driver. As the shaft lengths get longer, the tendency for the distance killing fade increases. This driver head position and focus spot are easy enough to test, and the presenters numbers were most definitely eye popping, so I'm going to give it a go.
Thank you for pointing out that this tip to place the driver head well behind the ball is easy to try. It would be nice if more readers on here would do what you plan to do , and just try it out before saying it does not work. If you try it and it works, great, if not no problem, just don't do it again. Have an open mind and be willing to try new ideas and tips from time to time and learn what works for you. I did that years ago and I currently am hitting my driver 260 yards carry with a 78 gram shaft and I'm 75 years old, fat and out of shape. Hitting up on the ball with my driver and woods off the tee seems to be working pretty well I would have to say.
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On 1/14/2023 at 1:07 PM, GolfSpy_APH said:
Moving the ball that far is going to do what you say in promote a increased AoA, but it is also going to have significant other implications on your swing with timing, start line and more. I'm afraid it isn't that simple and if i was too do that then the ball is going to be in front of my lead foot which is not good.
I did NOT tell anyone to move the BALL 6-7 inches at set-up. What I wrote was to move the driver head back 6-7 inches behind the ball and look at a spot just in front of the face of the driver, That is NOT the same thing as moving the ball . I hope this will clear up the confusion and allow you to understand the idea better.
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16 minutes ago, cnosil said:
This is why what you said is confusing. One post you should have two swings and and another that says you don't have to make two swings.
Please re-read what I posted, I did NOT say to make two swings, I said you make two swings IN TERMS of hitting up or down, that is NOT the same thing as making two different swings. It's only confusing to you because you failed to read the entire sentence to the end.
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1 hour ago, GolfSpy_APH said:
Pretty sure I have about 29 different driver swings and about 15 different feels for a single swing. Never know what is going to feel better or work and can change day to day round to round.
I can only imagine trying to consciously try have two distinct different swings would lead to absolute disaster.
I'm sure some can do it just fine. However I'll try and work on my neutral solid single swing vs two different ones.
Golf is hard enough as is.
You do NOT have to make two different swings, Just place the driver head 6-7 inches behind the ball and ball position will do rhe rest for you with one swing, not two.
- Mhudson111 and BobBC78
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The longest hitting on tour with a driver is Dechambeau and he uses a driver with about 5* of loft and he hits up on the ball in the area of 5-6 degrees from what I've seen in videos of his. Hitting up with a driver gives more carry and less spin for more total distance, which is pretty much everyone wants with a driver. While I admit I'm NOT a big fan of his swing, it's pretty hard to argue with his results when he can hit a ball over 340 yards carry when he needs to.
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On 12/14/2022 at 3:01 AM, Goober said:
Why have 2 swings ? Or two philosophies ? It’s one swing , one intent. After attending the Tour Striker Clinic it all makes sense now. You’re creating a real mess following that video. Personally go find a real good pro and learn and master one swing intent for all clubs
I don't know about you, but I try to hit UP on the ball with my driver and woods then hitting off a tee for a higher launch angle and more carry distance, which is what most of the tour pros are doing. That is NOT what most golfers want to do when hitting balls with an iron. With an iron most golfers try to hit down on the ball at least a little to get more spin. NOT the same as what you want with your driver. So there should be two swings in terms of hitting down or up. You might wnat to try it yourself and you might learn a little about this craxy game you have not liearned so far.
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It's now a month later and I wanted to point out something about that video about hitting UP at the ball. One thing the guy FAILED to mention and which is the True Secret to the tip is that you should LOOK at a sppt right in front of your driver when it's well back of the ball. Focus on a spot well behind the ball and you have a much greater chance of having the Bottom of your swing well behind the ball so your club head is able to move UPwards when it contacts the ball. I've been dont this for a long time now and it works quite well for me and those I've taught this tip to over the yearss. If you look at the ball you tend to have the bottom of your swing right behind the ball and when you look at a point some 6-8 inches behind the ball your bottom of your swing tends to be well behind the ball and you can hit UP at the ball with no problems.
- fixyurdivot and tony@CIC
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On 10/17/2022 at 7:46 PM, HAC said:
I read something that suggested it should be every 300 rounds because grooves get worn after that. I have never replaced irons that quickly. Of course, since I retired, I am now playing a lot more, but for me that would every four years ago or so. Thoughts?
This 300 rounds idea is total garbage, as it would depend on how much practice you do between rounds that would be a better factor when you combine it with the rounds played. Total number of balls hit would be a better way to go.
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I just watched a video about how to spend 2 minutes to gain 30 yards off the tee with one simple change to your driver set-up. Here is a link to the video if you think you might like to try it out.
When I watched the video I was thinking I might find something NEW to try, but what I found was something I came up with on my own about 10 years at and have been doing ever since with great results. I teach it to a lot of golfers when I go to the range and give a leasson to someone struggling with hitting their driver. This is the only video I have ever seen that mentions this idea and it should be standard advice for ALL drivre lessons in my opinion as it works great for hitting up on the ball with little or no effort.
- fixyurdivot, Gusset and tony@CIC
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That's a nice putting platform IF all you want is a FLAT green to work on. When I was designing my putting green I went with 3/8" plywood so I could change the slope of the green as I wished. All I had to do was raise one or more corners of the sheet of plywood and ti would bend nicely and let me putt up hill or down hill with left or right break as I chose to set it up. Much more versatile than a flat solid platform as the one you built.
An automatic ball return like the Robo Cup is a great idea as it lets me putt a lot faster for more practice in a shorter length of time.
With your solid and stiff platform, you might want to think about adding adjustable feet around the edges so you can raise one side of the green to give you some slope in your green. Much more challenging and fun when you have to read the greens.
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1 hour ago, chisag said:
... Com'on Doug, I am sure there are some Physicians, Accountants and Lawyers from PA that are MGS members and are willing to jump in their car driving 3-5 hours and give free advice and services to other MGS members living in their state.
I don't remember posting anything about giving FREE advice in my comment. just figured that they could help each other. OP gets his club fixed and a club builder gets some extra work and some money in the deal. That would be a win for both of them.
I have not been in PA for over 55 years so I have no idea how far apart these two gentlemen are, but I figured it was worth mentioning that they are both in PA and it might be a good fit if they got together on this issue. I didn't mean to start an argument guys. Have a nice weekend and I hope it's a lot warmer where you than it is in Colorado this week. High of 24 today, low of 8.
Center of Gravity vs Center of Mass
in Golf Clubs
Posted
To answer your first question of why there are so few high CG putters, I can't tell you why. I do NOT have a golf lab to test my putter on. What I did was hit balls on the green and looked at the results to see if it worked better or not. I also had a dozen PGA golf insturctors test my putter against their high dollar OEM putters, and EVERY one of thos instructors sain the same thing. My putter rolled the ball better than the putter they had in their bag. EVERY ONE.
My putter has 4* of loft to get the ball up out of the small depression it sits in on the green. Once to ball is level with the top of the grass, the high CG takes over and gets the ball rolling toward the cup with no bounce or skidding which is what we want with a putter. Have I don't the testing? YES. Do I have lab data to back my up? NO. I jus thave REAL world test results with over a dozen PGA instructors to back up my claims. IF that is NOT enough for you or anyone else, That's not my problem. I know the truth and if you don't want to accept it, not my problem.