Steve S

As far as I can tell from my research swing weight was a way to quantify feel.  Like all human measurements trying to categorize something not easy to describe it's imperfect but helps a to lead to a comparison for some folks.  
From a purely physics stand point the ideal club would be a shaft and grip of no mass and infinite stiffness and all the weight in the head.  That would allow you to swing the club as fast as possible to generate the most force on the golf ball. 
I've tried to build clubs with the lightest, stiffest shafts available and found that it's pretty hard to find shafts that are light enough and still very stiff.  The positive is that when doing this I was able to get higher club head speeds without sacrificing knowing where the club head was or feel.  I was also able to maintain launch conditions by using heads with "conventional" lofts (ex. 7 iron at 35 degrees).  I was also able to add weight to the clubs without loss of club speed up to a certain point.  I encourage folks to try this.  It's amazing how much weight you can add before you start slowing down. 

I replaced 3, 4 and 5 iron with hybrids.  Then last year I replaced 6 thru pitching wedge with hybrids.  In 2 years my index went from 12 to 9.

As far as I can tell from my research swing weight was a way to quantify feel.  Like all human measurements trying to categorize something not easy to describe it's imperfect but helps a to lead to a comparison for some folks.  
From a purely physics stand point the ideal club would be a shaft and grip of no mass and infinite stiffness and all the weight in the head.  That would allow you to swing the club as fast as possible to generate the most force on the golf ball. 
I've tried to build clubs with the lightest, stiffest shafts available and found that it's pretty hard to find shafts that are light enough and still very stiff.  The positive is that when doing this I was able to get higher club head speeds without sacrificing knowing where the club head was or feel.  I was also able to maintain launch conditions by using heads with "conventional" lofts (ex. 7 iron at 35 degrees).  I was also able to add weight to the clubs without loss of club speed up to a certain point.  I encourage folks to try this.  It's amazing how much weight you can add before you start slowing down. 

I agree.  I think that if your swing is wildly erratic you need lessons first.  Until you have a relatively repeatable swing a fitting is a waste of time and money.

" I look at it this way, in MGS testing the Kirkland V3 is a good 10 yds shorter than Maxfli Tours. My 81 yr old pard actually hits the V3 a little longer than MT's."   It may be because he can't hit the MT's with enough spin to keep them in the air.  The V3's spin a lot and will be shorter for a higher swing speed player but will actually help a sub 85mph player get more carry.  So you are correct, we haven't seen the all of the impact of this change, yet.  And I'll bet that there will be some of the DTC guys out of Taiwan, Korea, China and Viet Nam that will keep producing the old balls.  The Japanese market has a number of clubs that sell well there that are technically non-conforming by USGA standards.

Yeah the ruling bodies have long shown they don’t care about the game and it’s all about optics of pro golf they don’t like and want to rule over. The tours and the PGA of America telling them to buzz off with the MLR I’m sure had their heads exploding in disbelief.
i expect PGA tour, DP World Tour and maybe even LIV along with several ball manufacturers to file lawsuits 
A previous study the USGA did for distance reduction showed that when there was an 8% reduction for high swing speeds it was a 7% for 80-90 swing speeds. 
 
We know that in a test of a ball using the proposed MLR specs it cost Keegan Bradley 30-40 yards. So with that it would be a significant decrease of potentially 20-30 yards for slower swing speeds. If we look at what the MLR wanted to achieve with the MLR of taking 350 yard drives to 335 for the elite males that puts 8-11 yards right into the range of distance loss for slower swing speeds.
 

The manufactures need to make a stand and just keep selling the balls they make now!
Maybe Snell or Vice or both will just say, "If you want to keep playing the balls like you play now we are here for you."  They would rocket to the top of ball sales!  
I am going to buy enough balls to play for the rest of my life and they can just kick rocks!  I play this game for fun and rolling back distance in my senior years is like lining up to get kicked in the nuts for fun! 
Hello, if they roll back the ball 20% they effectively making the courses a tee box longer for everyone.  So what happened to Tee it Forward?  This will cause 5 1/2 hour rounds and that will cause lot's of golfers to quit and move to Pickleball!  I can't run and play the sports of my youth.  Golf is all I have left, they can't stand their success they are going to destroy the game with this idiousy.  
I am sick of these rules guys.  I just had my old square grooved KZG irons refinished and regrooved and at my age I never plan to enter a USGA event so their opinion no longer matters.  I will play divots as ground under repair and OB and all hazards as lateral with a single stroke penalty.  I won't carry a handicap and will provide my average score to anyone that need to know really I think it is a far more honest way to represent playing ablity.
I can afford to buy and play the gear I like and will from now on!!!
The USDA and R&A have lost their way and need to be reset. 🤮

Not sure what you mean by no issue.  I don't recall all your responses in this thread but I am assuming you are for the rollback.  I know you said it comes after you will stop playing competitive golf.  But stating your club speed doesn't make sense when talking about the ball testing protocols.  
The below video indicates at 112 MPH there was a 20 yard difference between a prov1 and the professional 90.  Neither of those balls would meet the new rules.   So at 100MPH you are looking at maybe a 20 yard loss in distance with a ball that meets the new rules.    
 

Maybe it will be different this time given that it has been nearly a century since the last ball rollback, but historically non-conforming equipment has not sold well. If there was a large demand for non-conforming equipment, don’t you think there would be a lot more options that exceed the current ball limits? (I mean, can you even name a multilayer urethane ball that doesn’t conform to the current ODS?).
The groove rule is another example that we can look to. The big OEMs complied by producing only to the new spec starting in 2010 even though the prior spec was still valid for most amateurs for at least 14 years. Now that the USGA blew by the final notice deadline without acknowledging, we are now at 18 years to never for full implementation of the groove rollback, yet the OEMs have shown no indication of changing course. 
IMHO, this will all be up to the PGA Tour/PGA of America. If they announce their intent on continuing to comply with the ROG, the OEMs will fall in line because this will be an opportunity for everyone except Acushnet. If they refuse and threaten to break off to their own set of rules, either the USGA/R&A maintain the status quo or push forward and risk the game descending into chaos. 

As if it hasn’t been interesting enough. 😎
I really don’t care what they do. They clearly don’t care about me or the opinion of people like me or anyone else whose opinion differs from theirs. They will do as they please and I will do as I please in regards to playing golf. I’ve had fun playing competitive golf by USGA rules and I’ve had fun playing with friends with our own set of crazy, modified rules like strings, call backs, mulligans and such. I will just resort to playing goofy golf - I will be in my 70’s by the time this takes effect, my competitive USGA days are over. I feel bad for guys in their 40’s and 50’s who still like to play by the rules - it’s kind of late in the game to adjust to this radical a change. 
 
But let’s see exactly what it is and the reaction of the tours and OEMs. Lots may happen yet. 

Would be nice but I don’t think they are ready to take on managing their own rules. But imagine if they did and got grint to be the handicap system. Would make for an interesting time in golf

It’s not clickbait. There will be distance loss for all. If It’s 5% for the faster swingers it will be 3-5% for the 80-90mph swinger. That’s across each club. 

High speed cameras show that even slow swingers can compress a 5 layer ball

Wild if true...

Read this on Twitter/X; it was a post from Michael Breed and I personally cannot confirm that it is accurate since I haven't seen any of the data:
 

I understand that the most powerful lobbying organization in the world is moving forward to get an exemption to help their members deal with the golf ball rollback distance loss. 
Yep, AARP is petitioning the USGA and R&A to allow AARP card carrying members 65 years and older to be able to play golf with the current golf balls without penalty.  They look at this exemption as potentially being one the most popular benefits it can offer it's members.  Of course, that's after their restaurant and hotel discounts, driver safely program and their Medicare supplement program.  
As a member for the last 17 years, I can't think of a better use of my membership money!
Only kidding (but it does make a little sense)!
 

I'm sure someone else said this, but I saw online a really well written idea around growing the grass longer. Get the fairway a little bit deeper by like 1/16th of an inch and supposedly it will drastically reduce the total yardage. 
Or we should make all tour players play with wood shafts again. 😆

I am keeping all of my existing Srixon’s.  I will likely buy more so that I can play my current distance and laugh at this whole mess.  Sticking with my existing tee box too.  

It’s not possible to have a ball that only affects high speed players and not low speed. There were tests done by the USGA in the past that showed a reduction of 8% for high swing players resulted in a 7% reduction for 80-90 mph swingers. 
 
There is going to be some affect to the slower speed players.
The USGA has backed off lots of older courses even before the current equipment era. There are courses that were used in the mid 80s and not used at all in the 90s.
They want to protect a handful of current courses in the U.S. and UK for the two open championships. They cherry picked data from the PGA tour to say distance is an issue. The claim the average distance has increased over the last 20,30,40,50 years which it has. But they haven’t shown that top end distance changed because that would defeat the narrative. Their issue is that too many golfers at the elite level hit the ball 300 yards which in their eyes takes away from the Open championship courses and also they are getting money from designers and course owners who claim more land is needed to build championship courses so they want to appease these people rather than the designers find better and more creative designs instead of using purely distance as a design
 
What it boils down to is the ruling bodies don’t like current professional tour game and wants to dictate how golf should be played

Welcome to my world.  I started playing again in 2003(after a long absence) because I was too old to play(and compete) at baseball/softball and basketball.  Started out in 2003 as a 25 handicap and have worked my way down to 8-9.  Still playing most courses from the "whites".  Would like to maintain that for another couple years before moving full time to the golds.  If this rule actually results in my swing losing 10-15 yards in 2030 then I'll be playing par 3 courses.  Can't see me playing with my golf friends(most of whom are 20-30 years younger than me) when I might have to be playing from tees that are 50 yards ahead of them.(junior tees). 

Oh of course but it still feels like raising the rim in all basketball settings just because 1% can dunk it with their head above the rim. Every once in awhile I could touch the rim but now it's further out of reach. Just more of that feeling than anything with this whole shebang. As we all do, we adjust. I love golf entirely too much for this to stop me and certainly won't get all that upset about a hobby. Just gotta get some more speed training in this offseason 😉 

For all the people bad mouthing the USGA, what is the primary reason you think they are doing it (seriously, I am not trying to trap anyone)?
Is it they are obsessed with protecting an arbitrary score? Are they protecting old golf, golden age private clubs that don't want to lengthen their course? Or are they chasing an invisible problem?
I guess I have an easy time seeing why the pros, the equipment manufacturers and the club fitters are against it. The pros don't like change and are paid by the equipment companies who have invested a lot of R&D and marketing into making the best ball possible and the club fitters sell top-end performance through fitting. 
 

Volvik already makes a non conforming version of it's balls.  it's called the Magma.  It's smaller and slightly heavier than a 'legal' ball.  Don't see why manufacturers wouldn't continue to make their current balls while developing one ball for the pros.  They could still sell it to the public albeit a higher price if you want to "play the ball the pros use."  

This is so easily resolved - just don’t do it - 
Here’s a chance for the tours to stand up for us - simply say - we aren’t doing it. 

" I look at it this way, in MGS testing the Kirkland V3 is a good 10 yds shorter than Maxfli Tours. My 81 yr old pard actually hits the V3 a little longer than MT's."   It may be because he can't hit the MT's with enough spin to keep them in the air.  The V3's spin a lot and will be shorter for a higher swing speed player but will actually help a sub 85mph player get more carry.  So you are correct, we haven't seen the all of the impact of this change, yet.  And I'll bet that there will be some of the DTC guys out of Taiwan, Korea, China and Viet Nam that will keep producing the old balls.  The Japanese market has a number of clubs that sell well there that are technically non-conforming by USGA standards.

Welcome to my world.  I started playing again in 2003(after a long absence) because I was too old to play(and compete) at baseball/softball and basketball.  Started out in 2003 as a 25 handicap and have worked my way down to 8-9.  Still playing most courses from the "whites".  Would like to maintain that for another couple years before moving full time to the golds.  If this rule actually results in my swing losing 10-15 yards in 2030 then I'll be playing par 3 courses.  Can't see me playing with my golf friends(most of whom are 20-30 years younger than me) when I might have to be playing from tees that are 50 yards ahead of them.(junior tees).