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Test Comments posted by GolfSpy MPR
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I also haven't been checking in as often I'd like here. Some of this is busy-ness: the boys' soccer season is almost over, and Kirke has his final competition of the year this week. We should be wrapping up our observations and writing final reviews really soon.
Here's my short summary: I can't see myself shopping for a new putter anytime soon.
The longer version: my last few rounds have been bland, statistically. I'm not putting poorly, for sure, but I'm not gaining on some of the numbers I first saw with the Edel. One qualification: I'm in an awkward place with my Arccos stats right now. I've played 18 rounds (9 or 18 holes) with my Edel; Arccos will only let me look at numbers for the past 15 or the past 20 rounds. So these numbers are for the past 15; that means that I'm comparing against 12 rounds with my old Odyssey and my first 3 rounds with the Edel. Here's where things stand today:
That -2.1 is compared to scratch; Arccos suggests my putting is at the level of a 9-handicap. That seems reasonable. In terms of raw numbers, I'm doing fine:
Happily, I posted some screen shots of numbers from just under a month ago, so we have a nice comparison:
- From 0-10', my SG is exactly the same.
- From 10-25', my SG is slightly worse (-.1 to -.5).
- From 25-20, my SG is slightly better (-.6 to -.3).
- My Putts/GIR is a bit better (2.0 to 1.9).
- Overall, using my 1/2/3 putt numbers, I was averaging 30.2 putts per round. I'm now at 30 even.
This is following a recent round that was immensely frustrating. As you can see from my stats, I'm normally a bit shaky inside 10 feet but very solid in mid-range putting. On this 18, I had only 5 one-putts and 13 two-putts. A huge chunk of those 2-putts were from mid-range, where I kept hitting solid putts but just missing over and over and over. I don't think I even sniffed a three-putt all round. But I just couldn't get one of the mid-rangers to drop.
All that to say, although I'm not revolutionizing my putting numbers, even going through a "dry spell" with my Edel has just returned me to normal. I fell tremendously comfortable with this putter. My distance control has been incredibly solid (though you can see that, given the green size at our course, I almost never have a really long putt).
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3 hours ago, Sluggo42 said:
This is an interesting post. My first putt, first round, and every round since, “Adele” has been the most “comfortable feeling” putter I’ve ever experienced in my 57 years of golfing. But, it’s also the first putter that ever been fit to me…
Worth clarifying: by "feel," I didn't mean here anything to do with the putter itself. Perhaps I could call it a lack of focus, though that suggests a lack of attention. But the "feel" I'm talking about exists even before I start the stroke. On days when I'm putting well, I have this detailed impression of where the hole is, even when I'm not looking at it. On other days, when I lack it, my intention in putting is less specific: the hole is "over there."
Tomorrow, after Kirke's tournament round, he and I are planning to play together. This will be the first time I've played with my Edel away from my home course, so I'm looking forward to what I see from it.
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Bit of a bounceback round this morning. Overall, I shot a 39, so it felt great to break 40 again.
Putting-wise, I was still struggling with feel. When I'm putting my best, I take a couple of looks at the cup and can virtually still "see" it out of the side of my head when I look back down at the ball. For some reason, I've struggled with that my past 18 holes.
Nonetheless, I had only 14 putts this morning for an Arccos score of -.7 strokes compared to scratch. It's worth noting: I two-putted the first five holes, then went on a tear with my short game. While I missed every one of the last four greens, I putt a wedge to within 5' on each one and made all four one-putts to save pars.
I'd love to see something from 10'+ go down again sometime soon. But the Edel is in no danger of leaving my bag, even though I'm going through a bit of a dry spell putting.
- Nolan220, cnosil, GolfSpy_SHARK and 3 others
- 6
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Another quick update post: I just completed my ninth round with my Edel on Monday (most of those are 9 hole rounds). It was far and away the worst putting round I've had since putting the Edel in my bag. As a round summary, Arccos draws a little line with four points: SG driving, approach, short, and putting. Typically, that line starts low and gradually climbs, reflecting that driving was the worst part of my round and putting was the best. Here was my line from Monday's round:
Blech.
I had 18 putts: seven 2-putts, one 1-putt, and a 3-putt. Simply put, I just didn't make anything. Several of those 2-putts were makeable, but I just made nothing. I suspect one problem was that I spent some time practicing putting that day, and went to the course with mechanics in my mind when I was on the green. So I'm hoping that this is an abberation.
Overall, though, the Edel continues to be a very solid addition to my game. Here are my big-picture numbers through the nine rounds, including Monday's disaster:
The -2.0 number is my putting compared to a scratch golfer. So far, the Edel is staying just ahead of the Odyssey it replaced. Before Monday's round, I was hitting my goal for the Edel: a single stroke gained compared to the Odyssey. That gain has dropped to .3 of a stroke; we'll see where it ends up in the next couple of weeks.
Even so, I'm keeping an eye on one number in particular: the SG on 0-10 foot putts. That number remains the worst part of my putting, and it was the number I had hoped to see decrease most with the Edel:
Raw putting numbers are still solid, again compared to scratch:
I have fewer 2- and 3- putts than a scratch golfer and more 1-putts, but that is most certainly mostly due to missing greens and having tiny greens on my home course. That said, even in raw numbers, the Edel is holding its own.
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1 hour ago, azstu324 said:
The post-honeymoon phase will determine more but I might say that the Edel is a much more rewarding feeling than my HB Premier.. and that's saying A LOT! Maybe not as soft but but just overall a better feel off the face. One of the things I'd like to do is compare the overall feel and weight of the EAS to most putters on the floor at a big-box and see if anything comes remotely close. I argue that there is anything similar.
I'm with you on this, @azstu324. One of the putters I've enjoyed the most of the many that have passed through my bag was my Cleveland Elevado TFi 2135. It was an incredibly soft feel, but not squishy. On the other extreme, I wasn't a huge fan of the feel/sound of the Evnroll ER6 I had in my bag for about a year. To me, it felt harsh.
As I wrote above, the Edel's feel is so perfect as to be unnoticeable to me while I'm putting. It literally is not a conscious thought I have while practicing or on the course. I don't mean this to sound like hyperbole: it's not that it feels awesome, or like butter, or any of the other things people write about club feels. Instead, in my judgment, it feels exactly like what I'd expect a milled face putter to feel like. It's a perfect neutral for me.
- Sluggo42, JerBooth, GolfSpy_SHARK and 1 other
- 4
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Played 18 with Kirke this morning. (I actually beat him, but I won't rub that in.)
It was my first time playing 18 with the Edel, and my fifth overall round with the putter. Today's round was interesting: I shot an even 80. I had a putt for 79 that missed on the high side. The round also showed the value of using something like Arccos for tracking strokes gained versus merely tracking putts. I had only 27 putts today (9 one-putts and 9 two-putts). But my SG:Putting for the round is -1.7 compared to scratch. I had a couple misses within 10', but only really a single putt that I felt I "should" have made. Otherwise, I was rock-solid on the short putts I was leaving myself with my wedges.
The more interesting graph is this one from Arccos, tracking my most recent five rounds (with the Edel) against the five rounds before that (with Osltubs):
Three things to pay attention to:
- Compared to a scratch golfer, I'm losing 1.3 strokes per 18 holes on the green. If I change the comparison, that makes me the equivalent of a 6-handicap on the greens. Since my actual standard of play is somewhere closer to a 13 handicap right now, putting continues to be a relative strong point of my game.
- Compared to my previous five rounds (you can see this in the fine print), I'm 2.0 strokes better per 18 with the Edel. That's a pretty big performance gain.
- What I'm really impressed by is the consistency of the performance of the Edel so far. We're still in relatively small sample size territory, but look at how flat that orange line is. Basically, every round I'm going out with the expectation that my putting is going to be steady.
I do have a couple of drill updates to post as well, where the Edel didn't fare quite as well. But if the on course performance is there, it's hard to be upset about that.
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I'm going to get a better mic for this as well, but if you want a simple example of the sound of the Edel, here's a tiny clip:
This is with a Srixon Z Star, which (though softer than the Z Star XV) is still a high compression ball.
- 808nation, GolfSpy_SHARK, edingc and 2 others
- 5
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So I mentioned that the Edel seemed heavy to me: I confirmed that this afternoon. Here's the Edel as compared to the putter it's replacing, Osltubs:
That's a pretty substantial weight difference, especially since both are 34" putters. For reference, I currently have the 10g weight in the Edel, which is what it came with (I haven't tinkered with the weight kit yet).
Also, the balance point for the Edel is considerably higher up the shaft than the balance point on Osltubs:
I don't have a swingweight scale; I think I've seen websites in which you can input total weight and balance point and it'll kick out a swingweight: I'll see if I can get that info.
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So a few more early impressions.
Got in nine holes with Kirke this morning. I missed two putts that I really wanted to make. Both were within 8'; on both, as soon as I hit the putt, I knew I had changed the face angle at impact (one push, one pull). Even so, Arccos saw my putting as a strength (about a 6 handicap).
Through 27 holes with the Edel, I have 44 putts—with zero three putts so far. That works out to just under 30 putts per 18.
On the subjective side (I know I'm overdue for a gratuitous photo post): I have zero complaints. I don't know that I'd say there's anything about the putter's looks or feel that wows me. On the feel side: I've been an insert guy for a while now, mostly with Odyssey. In general, I favor a soft feel in a putter. The Edel obviously doesn't feel like a soft insert, but it's also in no way harsh. It feels, to me, exactly like what I'd expect. That's what I mean by not wowing me; it's not really a criticism.
The same is true for the looks, especially at address. The Edel looks utilitarian, but in the best way. It doesn't at all look cheap, in my estimation. But it also doesn't look like it's trying to edge into the Tyson Lamb discussion either.
I will say, as one final comment here: my putter is heavy. I do not know the spec of the weight in the handle of the putter. But I do know that the full putter feels really substantial. I'll weigh it in the next couple of days and post a total weight. All that said, during the stroke, it feels properly balanced to me.
- tommc23, bens197, sirchunksalot and 7 others
- 10
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20 minutes ago, bens197 said:
David Edel is going to hire you Michael...
I can see it now..."Edel Golf is pleased to announce a golf industry first, Michael will be our company Chaplain as well as video content editor..."
Since @revkev already has the MGS Forum Chaplain position locked down, I needed to start reaching out to other mission fields.
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Let me throw in some way too early feedback on my EAS 4.0 so far.
I did have a league match last night. Arccos loved my putting:
Basically, I missed one putt that I should have made. I had about a 2.5' putt for a par. The hole was cut on the edge of the green, just off a ridge. It was going to be quick; it just need to be tapped. But I also expected that it would have a slight right break and it didn't. I burned the left edge of the hole and made the comebacker after it rolled 3' by. So the putter did exactly what I asked of it—it was clearly user error.
Otherwise, I felt really good with the putter in my hands last night. The 3–7' putts that typically give me fits felt much less daunting; as the round went all, I started expecting them to go in. Again, this is early, merely nine holes. We're still firmly in honeymoon season.
Yet the Edel didn't come with a price tag on it. Typically, once you remove the price tag, the magic goes away. So there might be something to this....
One more thing: I did some pretesting with my current putter on a drill on my putting mat. I set up the PuttOut and start at 1'. In order to move back, I either have to make a perfect putt or (much worse) take 10 attempts. I work my way back to 7', and then total up the number of attempts. Before my Edel came, I did this three times with my Odyssey Stroke Lab Toe Up Big Seven (OSLTUBS—that's going to be its new name, Osltubs, because it's way too long to type). In those three attempts, I got scores of 45, 43, and 55.
Did my first attempt with the Edel this morning: 39. What was amazing, I started similar to normal: I took six putts from 1', and then failed to make a perfect from 2', 3', and 4' (so 10 putts at each of those). But then I made a first attempt perfect at 5', then again at 6', and then again at 7'.
Whoa. Interesting....
- tommc23, M. Parsons, GolfSpy BOS and 6 others
- 6
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On 7/9/2021 at 12:24 PM, azstu324 said:
One extremely important thing that I learned through my fitting was that some aspects of my putting setup almost work against my own biomechanics when it comes to the setup and stroke. After learning more about my arm length and how my own joints function (even taking into account movement limitations from previous sports injuries, etc) basically from my hips up to my head, I was able to be fit according to my actual natural tendencies and body and was also given some great instruction on how to find my more natural setup and stroke. The Edel EAS fitting system is really engineered to work with every aspect of YOUR natural setup and movements. My grip was almost there but I learned that it was more forced than it needed to be due to having to adapt for ridges and flat surfaces and the rounded grip from Edel, while it was about the same size/weight as my GP Pro Only Red Star, allowed my hands to grip the club in a way that was much more organic and in tune with my biomechanics. I also found out that my stroke pace was more rushed than it needed to be due to having the feeling of too much head weight and not enough balancing throughout the grip and shaft. While my previous setup was in the ballpark.. I learned that it was maybe more so at the concession stand rather than on the playing field. Needless to say, I'm losing my mind over how stoked I am to get the putter back from Edel to start the testing process.
This is such an important piece of information for those interested in an Edel fitting.
I went in assuming that the fitting was going to involve something like a SAM PuttLab. I was looking for an analysis of my stroke, and then a putter fitted for the stroke.
Instead, at least as I see it, the Edel fitting really consists of three main components:
- First, biometrics. They want to know your height and wingspan, and then the upper arm/lower arm ratio. All of this information is relevant to how you are most likely to "naturally" want to swing the putter.
- Second, aim. We've already talked about this some, but this is especially a major facet of the EAS series of putters. It was very interesting that as we tried out different markings on the topline and flange of the putter, it would make subtle differences in my aim. As I mentioned in my video, my aim with my new Edel isn't perfect, but it's much closer than it was before. The round grip is also part of Edel's theory on aim.
- Third, speed. This is where the fitter experiments with different handle weights and head weights to dial in your putter so that the ball rolls out the distance that you expect.
I suspect that their fitting model is different, at least in part, because Edel is committed to torque balanced putters. That isn't the topline item on the EAS series, but it's been a longstanding commitment of Edel's putters. If all your putters are torque balanced, you're not really interested in arc vs. straight putting, because you're not adjusting toe hang and closure rate.
TEST: @GolfSpy_TCG
- tommc23, 808nation, goaliewales14 and 4 others
- 7
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13 minutes ago, Lacassem said:
I know you said 4’ and in is the struggle and that overall you want strokes gained in the 10’ range but what would you say is your percentage made <10’?
I could guess, but it really would be just that. Because Arccos (by default; I think this is something they're changing) tracks only the length of your first putt on the green, I can't see my make rate from specific distances yet. Here's my putting stats from my most recent 10 rounds (including my first 9 holes with the Edel last night), compared to scratch:
A few takeaways:
- As I mention in the video, I almost never have a putt outside 50'. Our greens are just too small for that to happen often.
- The further I move from the hole, the "better" my putting gets. This is true, obviously, only on a strokes gained basis. I'm obviously not making more 12 footers than I am 5 footers.
- On a total putts basis, I'm comparable to a scratch golfer, but some of that is clearly due to 1) missing greens and 2) small greens. (Missing greens is also somewhat due to small greens, but I digress.)
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And here it is: my introduction, fitting, unboxing, and expectations video! (Pro tip: if you don't want to spend 15 minutes of your life hearing me wax eloquent about putting, change the playback speed to 1.5.)
Let me know what questions you have about the putter or aspects of the testing you'd like to see.
- GolfSpy_APH, goaliewales14, azstu324 and 8 others
- 7
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My intent today is to film an unboxing. With that, I will also narrate my fitting. I will also do a written version, but I wanted to sync it up with a video first.
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It's EDEL DAY!
- goaliewales14, bens197, GolfSpy BOS and 5 others
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Started setting my baseline today. Obviously, I'll have lots of on-course numbers with my current putter through Arccos. But I rolled out my putting mat with my PuttOut and recorded the number of putts it took me to make a perfect from 1 foot, 2 feet, etc. until 7 feet. I'm going to keep repeated this process until I receive my Edel, and then do the same test with it.
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3 minutes ago, B.Boston said:
Friends in high places! That's awesome. What a cool experience that will be. I'm sure you'll do an awesome job writing it all up for us. So what do you think going in, and model preference or expectations?
I've already got a script in my head of what I intend to tell him
I'm going to start with what I think I know, with the clear commitment to being willing to learn that I'm wrong.
- I'm a decent putter, and it's a strength of my game, relative to handicap. I've got years of on-course stats to back this up, including Arccos the past two years. Over my past 15 rounds, Arccos has my putting SG equal to a 7-handicap. I average just over 30 putts per round.
- There's a consistent pattern in that data, though: I'm a better putter (by SG) from 10–25' than I am from 0–10'. This is true in the data for virtually every round I play. I miss short putts far too often. Going into this test, this is my highest priority.
- As for my actual setup and stroke: I've posted about this before, that I don't see the correct line correctly. I can set a 4' ruler on the correct line for a straight 8' putt, aligned with a laser. If I turn off the laser and address a ball at the end of the ruler, the ruler will look to me as though it is pointing almost outside the cup on the left. I have tried moving my head and body around to all sorts of angles without success. If I address a putt from the left side, the line looks correct.
- Using a home putting analyzer (SwingByte), I therefore tend to aim about 2° right of the cup.
- My stroke is quirky. Early on, I read Dave Pelz and decided to work on a SBST stroke. Like many who attempt that, I actually ended up with a stroke that tends to move outside the line on my backstroke. Coming into impact, I close the face relative to address, which starts the ball on the correct line, though a line to the left of where I was aimed.
- On a normal straight putt, my predominant miss is a pull.
I'm intrigued, obviously, to see if any of the myriad alignment options on the Edel change my perception of the line. I'm also probably more interested to see if their torque-balanced putter, combined with custom weighting and their grip options, can mitigate some of my tendency to come outside the line on my backstroke.
Of the four headshapes, the rounded back mallet appeals to me subjectively the least: it's just not a shape I've ever really loved. My baseline expectation is that I'd end up with the fanged mallet: I am currently playing with the Toe Up version of the Odyssey Seven. But if I end up with either of the blades, that is no problem either.
- GolfSpy BOS, tommc23, edingc and 5 others
- 8
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6 hours ago, MaxEntropy said:Congrats to a great group! I'll be very interested to see how the fitting process goes, especially for the guy that lives in one of the more remote areas of the contiguous 48. @GolfSpy MPR's distance to a qualified fitter? I'll say 200 miles.
So you're not wrong. The closest fitters are the Club Champion locations in Mineapolis and Milwaukee, and both of those are about a five hour drive from my house.
BUT...
I have news that is currently not fully disclosable. There are circumstances that are going to permit me to go through a full fitting with a really special guest fitter. But the details of that will come....
EDEL EAS Putter
Posted
My fitter measured both upper arm to lower arm and wingspan. The principles behind that have prompted to me to change how I think about my stroke. I'm not sure how visible the change would be, but my thought is more Nicklaus-esque piston with my right arm.