Jump to content


  • Posts

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by halliedog

  1. I just received my 4-W a few days ago.  I had ordered with no grips because I was waiting on some Grip Master grips that I wanted to install.  I finally got around to doweling and installing the grips yesterday morning and was looking forward to a long day at the range but of course it rained all day long and is starting out raining off/on again this morning.

    Here's all I can say so far with only living room chipping at this point:

     - Service:  Service is outstanding.  I used the website Chat function to ask a few initial questions to get an idea of what was available and I got near immediate responses to each question.  Several days later I went ahead ordered a 902 4-6, 623  7-W blended set.  I sent a message asking how to blend the lofts and Eric (the owner) asked if he could call me to discuss - you aren't getting that treatment from many other OEMs (I've heard Sub70 is also very good and the owner very accessible).  That was the first thing that stood out to me, not only did he personally want to assist, come to find out it was him who I'd been communicating with on the online Chats.  We had about a 1/2 phone conversation where I told him what I'm coming from (2019 TM P770), what I liked about them, and what I was looking for out of a new set.  Since one thing I was looking for was a more penetrating flight he immediately said I should go all 902 - the 623, although being "blades" do flight the ball higher with more spin than the 902s so not a good fit for me based on what I wanted.  He said PF2 would also be an option, but not as "forgiving" as the 902, so we went that route.  We then went through shaft selection, loft and lie by pretty much each club.  I wanted something other than standard black ferrules and it wasn't a problem to send them to send them what I wanted and they would install.  Club heads were on backorder from the forging/milling factory so I knew it would be a wait, but received several communications during the process giving updates.

     - Cost:  They are in the ballpark with any of the other DTC brands and constantly run 10-15% off sales (I used the March Madness promo to get 15% off, along with an additional 5% off for no grips) so came 4-W with KBS Tour V shafts and all the custom specs I wanted for about half of big brand name prices, and even less than a few "used" sets I've bought in the past.

     - Quality:  Once I took them out of the box they all looked perfect.  Shafts are all precisely 1/2" incremented and were SS 1x as I'd requested, ferrules are turned/finished better than I've had from some of the big OEMs before.  SW was all within D5.0 - D5.75 after I gripped them up, and the slight variance could've just as easily been from the grips being off slightly, I didn't have a scale to weigh them prior to installation.  I'm sure if I'd had them before the build started I could've shipped them along with the custom ferrules and they'd have installed them and the SW might have all been dead on.

     - Looks:  Online pictures really don't do them justice as far as just "looks", as they are really sharp.  I did do a little customization on paint fill to something more my liking, but that was just a personal thing to do while it was raining all day yesterday.  They are EXTREMELY comparable in blade length, top line, sole width, offset to my P770s.  I can try to post some side by side pictures at some point if anyone is wanting a comparison between the 2.

    I can try to post back some more after it quits raining and I actually get to hit them if anyone is interested.  

    • Like 2
  2. On 2/9/2021 at 12:07 PM, GolfSub70 said:

    I believe the raw finish versions of both will be available in the next week or two. Not 100% sure beyond that but the others shouldn't be too far behind. Unfortunately shipments have been getting split up and delayed all over the place.

    Well of course they'll be available in a few weeks right after I pulled the trigger on NL 623-M 🤯 (their Super Bowl 15% off promo was too much to resist).

    Interesting similarities between 623-M and TA III, other than some different milling on the back heel/toe.  Seems to lend some credibility to those saying these are all outsourced blanks with some custom milling/stamping "finishing touches"?  I do think the extended weight pads on heel/toe of TA III might add to some perimeter weighting increasing MOI/forgiveness. 

    Comparison pics:




    Question to @GolfSub70 if you happen to know - the "porting" on the TA IIIs?  Seems to be random (some possibly weight-filled ala PXG, some just open ports), was this done on the fly to adjust SW while these were in Proto stage, or does it serve some greater purpose and will that be the way it is rolled out for purchase (like tungsten plugs in the toes of long irons)?  Any idea if these will be along the same price line as the 639 MB/CB?  Might be fun to do a shootout between the 2 once they finally come out!


    Sub 70 TA III.jpg

    • Like 4
  3. 12 hours ago, cnosil said:

    In the original post,  GolfSub70 said the chart was put together last year based on MGS most wanted testing data;  the $2 may simply be a cost adjustment over the past year.   

    As for the numbers, I suggest you read up on the MGS most wanted testing process.   It come from people hitting clubs not robots.  All of the data captured comes from GCQuad launch monitors and therefore isn't a subjective opinion on the clubs,   but an analytical opinion based on the captured data.  There are also discussions on why people hitting the clubs is a better approach than robots hitting the clubs for capturing this type of information.   As one of the most wanted testers,  I can personally tell you the every club and shaft provides slightly differing results based on the person and how the clubs looks;  that difference applies to every clubs in the bag from driver to putter.  

    I don't disagree with anything you say regarding previous year clubs from OEMs and shopping around for or building your own sets.  This approach is probably the exception when it comes to golf consumers and many just buy off the shelf.  Essentially the DTC model may not best fit your buying approach,  but that really isn't a reason to bash the company.  Just see if it is something that works for you,  see if what you want to do is an option, and if not provide your feedback if you wish.  While you may not intend it to be this way,  but your posts come off as being very condescending.  Also,  if you watch the Sub70 social media posts,  they post demo and slightly used clubs at a discount;  so you could achieve additional savings that way.  

    At the end of they day Sub70 provides great clubs,  with nice options,  and reasonably priced upgrades;  I hope you find what you are looking for.

    I don't think I ever "bashed" the company, in fact to the contrary I said that their clubs look nice, probably are every bit as good of quality as the big OEMs, and that I will probably even end up demoing a few at some point.  I simply pointed out an error in his chart that he posted a few days ago, not a post form over a year ago, so if there was a cost adjustment why not reflect it in his chart?  Like I said in previous post, not a huge deal, but who knows what other inaccuracies there may be in that chart when it should be pretty simple to know your own product's current cost?

    As to the MGS Most Wanted, never really ever read it and likely won't start.  If they ever start using robotic testing to show which clubs actually perform better with ALL other variables removed it might have some merit to me, otherwise not.  If this way is so much better, someone should explain to the majority of OEM R&D Depts along with the USGA so they can all switch.  Sorry if this is "condescending" or offends you, I keep forgetting we can't express our opinions on an open golf forum any more because someone might get offended or have their feelings ruffled.  Guess it's a good thing I don't visit this place very often and post even less.  Also, I don't do social media, so would never catch one of their posts.

    @GolfSub70, I certainly never take any of your responses as being any way but informative and helpful.  Sure you are going to try to defend your brand, and no one should expect any different.  You express your thoughts in a constructive and cordial manner.  

    • Like 1
  4. On 3/12/2020 at 5:23 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

    Curious why you say savings aren’t there? A month or so ago I went thru their site and had a set of the cb 4-p with Nippon modus 120 and the ndmc grips for under $800. I’m not sure of any new cb on the market that can be had with that shaft for that price.

    Re-read the post you quoted.  I never said I could walk into GG or PGASS and pick up a NEW set of CURRENT model Taylormades or Titleists for the same price, but I can go on several websites and buy NOS (New Old Stock, there, I spelled it out for you) irons for a COMPARABLE price, likely with a no up-charge shaft, for CLOSE to the same price.  And they admit right on their website that there is really no significant change in improvement from cycle to cycle from all the big OEMs.

    Reading is fundamental, my friend!

    Jesus, It's like I'm playing cards with my brother's kids around here!

  5. On 3/12/2020 at 7:53 AM, PMookie said:

    All that work and effort in point #2 to break even................

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

    They don't have the shafts I want listed on the drop-down menu of their website, so why not go with the stock option, pull, install my own, and try to sell of the outcasts?  


  6. @GolfSub70

    Thanks for pointing out the option of sending my own shafts/grips and only paying for the heads and build.  That might be an option, although I really do enjoy building my own clubs, and you didn't mention the cost of the build.  I'm not necessarily looking to "break even" or anything, but why not sell off a set of shafts that I'll never, use when I already have something better "for my game" on hand ready to install?  Not only is it somewhat therapeutic for me, but I know they are done exactly how I want them, everything including doweling, pro-soft inserts, grips built up exactly how I like, etc...

    In the chart above, you list the 739s @ $439 for 4-W, yet when I go on your site and select 739 RH, 4-W, with absolutely no upgrades to shaft or grip, it shows $441?  Yeah, its only a $2 difference, but not exactly correct?  Makes me have second thoughts about what else in your impressive little chart may not be exactly correct?  Plus, how are those numbers gathered?  Is it from people hitting all those clubs, or a robot hitting all those clubs?  I don't place any value on random people when it comes to clubs or balls because it's all so subjective.  Bags, push carts, sure, I'll read people's opinions and go on durability, features, ease of use, etc...

    Also, you forget to mention in the little blurb at the bottom of your chart that most OEMs are offering many of your upgrade shafts as a no up-charge stock shaft or smaller up-charge.  That's one place, along with grips, where you just can't beat them on price point, just because of the sheer volume they deal on compared to you.  Not a knock on you, just a fact of life, and I don't think you can deny that? 

    And I never said the OEMs CURRENT offerings will come anywhere close to you on price.  The money they are spending on Marketing/RD has to be paid somehow?  If you re-read you'll see I said NOS (New Old Stock), and even you have to admit that blade/players cavity back designs haven't changed dramatically in the last few years?  Don't you say in the Business Model - Product Release part of your website that "Most of those product releases also come with radical, empty promises of increased distance and forgiveness"?  So you're saying that your company hasn't re-invented the wheel when it comes to iron design, and if I'm patient and diligent, I can get one of the OEM sets from last year's cycle brand new at huge discount, likely with a shaft of my choice (or at least one that would hold higher resale value if not my choice) at little to no up-charge, that will be at least COMPARABLE in price to your's? 

    Thanks again for being on here and explaining all your different available options to the end consumer, and offering a different option for an equal quality product to the over-priced CURRENT models that OEMs feel the pressure to push out every 6 months to a year.  It really does seem you are a Customer First business, which is rare these days and quite refreshing!  I'll be keeping an eye on you guys, and if I decide to make a move this summer, you'll definitely be on my short-list of options to consider (especially if I could get my hands on a Proto set of those 639-Gs 🙂 )! 

    GIRs and Birdies my friend!

  7. I'm still interested in this company, and will probably do a demo later in the spring, but when I go on the website and build a set of 4-GW, the savings just aren't there.  

    1. They have have a very limited number of available "upgrade" shafts, and they all cost a premium.  Heck, even anything other than a GP Tour Velvet STD grip is an up-charge.

    2. I can actually buy NOS of last year's top of the line clubs, pull and sell the shafts, put my own in, sell the grips and put my own on, and actually about break even compared to Sub70.

    I'm not knocking the whole DTC concept.  For the average consumer it probably works out to a good savings, if they do a proper online fitting.  On the other hand, for someone who is a bit more knowledgeable and knows what shafts/ferules/grips they want, and has the ability to build their own sticks, there MIGHT be better options?  If it was "heads only" for a steep discount, I'd probably be all over it, they look beautiful.  I understand why they have the business model they do and agree with it, but may just not be my cup of tea.

    @Sluggo42 Love the milling on those wedges, wish they offered something similar on their iron sets.

    @GolfSub70 It's great to see a club manufacturer so active in a forum, and I'm not trying to dissuade others from checking you out.  I myself will likely demo some of your clubs once you put together a black CB/MB setup, or those Protos you've discussed, but I just don't see the savings for myself.  Wish you all the luck, and welcome your response. 

    • Like 1
  8. 8 hours ago, blackngold_blood said:

    I asked Jason this a few months ago when looking to purchase a set of 699’s. He told me they prefer to control all aspects of the build and I could send my shafts and grips to them for assembly. I ended up buying a used set on the bay and doing the work myself. 

    That's understandable I guess, they don't want a bunch of hacks doing shoddy builds and giving their product a bad rep.  I guess the only extra work for me would be to pull whatever stock shaft came with them and then having to resell them to recoup some of my costs when I put my own in.

    • Like 2
  9. 22 hours ago, Tazz2293 said:

    Here is the link to the 699 Pro.  Will be released late February



    They must've just put that up, I swear it wasn't there over the weekend.  Anyway, Sweet Baby Jesus!  Those look amazing, very clean, minimal "branding", reduced head size and offset, and a durable nitrocarburized finish.  I may have to pick up a demo when available.  

    Also anxiously awaiting if they announce plans to release that 639-G they teased earlier - that in black could be the one!  I swore I was set on equipment for the year, but at this price for a nice new set of toys it's hard to pass up.  I'm still thrilled with my TM P770s and have no intention of ditching them, but a demo of of the 639-G or 699 Pro could make that thinking go right out the window.  

    • Like 1
  10. 10 hours ago, HardcoreLooper said:

    Don't think I said that. Sometimes my wife drives my daughter to the course when I can't. We went with the ClicGear. 

    My bad, I see that now that I re-read it, but can't your wife assist her until she grows a little? 

    Good choice on the ClicGear, I just got one last spring and couldn't be happier with it.  

  11. Great thread so far and very informative!

    Couple of questions for @GolfSub70:

     - What is the black finish made of?  Is it the crappy PVD or some other type of "surface coating" that wears rather quickly, or something more durable like black nitride or DBM?

     - Is it, or will it at some point be, possible to get the black finish on other models besides the 639cbs?  Or even possibly raw?  I could see the added expense of doing just a few 1-offs of a certain head in black for "special orders", but offering in raw should actually help with cost as its one less step of the finishing process.  (Plus in my case, if I wanted to add the black nitride myself if you don't offer it, it would save me the expense of stripping the chrome first 🙂 )

     - Any updates on the modified MB version pictured a few pages back (639-G i think it was called)?  I know it was mentioned it wouldn't be available until sometime in 2020, if at all, but here we are already!  To be honest I'm not really in the market for new irons this year, but at this cost, a set of those in a durable black finish look very intriguing! 

     - I saw mention on twitter of a 699 Pro, but can't find any info on your website - can you elaborate?

     - Since you don't offer heads only for purchase, can you at least ship the clubs un-assembled if I were to purchase the "full club"?  Reason I ask is I always make some customizations to my irons before use (doweling, pro-soft inserts, custom ferrules/grips, etc.) and this would simplify the process.

    • Like 2
  12. Also should add, I wanted to play the GT shorter than normal and didn't find extra weights available.  I went to Mizunousa.com, did the chat with Lauren, and got my extra weights in the mail today for  grand total of FREE.  Mizuno CS is second to none!

  13. Sorry to bump this thread back up from almost a year ago, but I just discovered these (GT180 and ST180) both in drivers and fairways.

    I have been playing a '17 M1 for a few years and mostly happy with it.  On a lark decided I needed to try one of the new Mizuno 190 models.  Read some reviews, and decided not to pay $400-500 on a club that might not preform better than what I have (no one locally has Mizuno wood demos, so would be going in blind).  Then along comes the GT180 @ $125 for the head/adapter only and I figure why not.  I figured if I was going in blind on the head might as well go in blind on the shaft.  Bought an Even Flow White 6.0 70g, and have hit some of the best drives in recent memory!  Then figured I might be leaving some distance on the table with spin, so promptly bought a ST180 head to pair up with the Even Flow.  The ST180 is definitely lower spinning/launching, but the GT180 produces better feel and results for me as of now (no roll so carry is King!)

    Being the true ho, decided if I liked the GT180 driver, I'd be stupid to not try the fairway.  I now have one of each (GT and ST) in the mail to do live test.  GT has a Tensei White 70 and ST has a Tensei Blue 60, so I can swap/experiment, or just buy another Even Flow White to test both heads?

    Guess the reason for bumping this up is to say, don't sleep on these clubs!  I think all in, I have $125 for each driver head, $105 for the new shaft, and $100 for each 3 wd with shaft.  That puts me for $555 total as of now, and can sell off the heads that don't make the cut. 

  14. On 1/14/2019 at 12:02 PM, juspoole said:

    Going back and forth on this.  I'm an average putter and recently had a Club Champion fitting including getting on the SAM lab.  It was determined that my putting stroke was actually fairly good.  On the course, my main issue tends to be a misread or speed.  Most of the time, I'm getting the ball on my line that I've chosen.  

    I've read some replies that this can help some with distance control, but what I find happens is that I will just lose my feel for distance after about 7-8 holes and then my confidence sort of goes with it. 

    I've read some others are putting stiff iron shafts to help with stability.  Can anyone comment or even compare?  That would be a much cheaper way to go.

    I just bought a new O Works 7S and wanted to lengthen it, but instead of just adding an extension I bought a KBS C-Taper X flex iron shaft.  Figured it could possibly be a similar solution as probably heavier and more "stable" than standard putter shaft.  I put an 8" section of foam backer rod in to help dampen vibration. 

    I've never been able to demo one of the Stability shafts yet, so can't compare, but so far I'm liking the feel on my little experiment.  Unfortunately going to be a while before I get a chance to roll it on a real green, but loving it while carpet putting in the basement.

    • Like 3
  15. 5 hours ago, hckymeyer said:

    FWIW since KBS specifically says you can trim 8.25" I don't think the 8" section you mentioned it correct.  KBS also has some pretty good customer service, have you tried calling or emailing them to ask?  

    Also yes, the 7s takes a .370 shaft.

    Thanks so much!  I got the 8" from Golfworks Q&A section, and I got the 140g X flex so I guess I could gp 8.25" and be safe.  I'm wanting the putter to play somewhere in the 38" range and it's a 43" blank so won't need to go quite that far!

    Trying to build a "Tank", since Odyssey doesn't make the 7S in a Tank variant.  I've got some 25g weights to bring the head weight up to 380g and going to put a SS Mid-Slim 2.0 with countercore on it.

  16. If pulling from iron heads, I'd definitely agree with buying or building a puller, or just pay a local shop to do the job.

    If trying to pull a Driver/FW adapter, I've had pretty good success with this method:

    1.   Securely clamp shaft horizontally.
    2.   Remove club head from adapter, and then replace the screw from bottom of club head back into adapter, but not fully tightened.
    3.   Attach a small vise-grip to the screw.
    4.   Use a micro-torch to QUICKLY get the adapter heated to the point where the epoxy bond breaks.
    5.   Pull adapter off using the vise-grips in as straight of a motion, in the same line as the shaft, with as little twisting as possible.  

    Two things that are important to this method having any chance of consistent success - 1. By not tightening the adapter screw all the way, and attaching your vise-grips/pliers to it, you can get away with some "MINOR" twisting as the screw will take the brunt of the twisting, not the adapter/shaft.  Still very important to go in straight line with shaft to avoid bending.  2. I use a torch only, never a heat gun for graphite.  You want to concentrate the heat only where needed and get the epoxy to break down as fast as possible so the heat doesn't dissipate into the shaft causing the resins to soften/break down.

    I'm not recommending this on a super expensive shaft, but has always worked for me in a pinch on a shaft I just want to move from one adapter to another in a hurry and not too concerned about damage.  Use at your own risk! 


    A lot of folks do not know where the 588 designation comes from-- Look at the profile it is an exact copy of the 1958 Wilson Staff sand wedge which was a tour and better player staple throughout the 60s into the 80s.

    The "58" comes from Wilson Staff as in 1958

    The "8" comes from 8* of bounce which the old staff was stock and the Cleveland standard stock version is too.

    One of the newer T Mag wedges is also a copy of the tried and true design complete with the bore through hosel and red plug like the original Wilson. Cleveland never did a bore through 588 to my knowledge


    Sorry there Stu, but have to call you out on this one, unless you have something else to back it up.  From this article, the "5" comes from it being Cleveland's 5th design and the "88" comes from being released in 1988.


    Also, as far as I know, the TM wedges aren't a  true bore through, even though they do have a red "plug" on the bottom making them appear so?  I've never owned or even held any of them so can't say for sure, but think that's correct?

  18. A lot of folks do not know where the 588 designation comes from-- Look at the profile it is an exact copy of the 1958 Wilson Staff sand wedge which was a tour and better player staple throughout the 60s into the 80s.

    The "58" comes from Wilson Staff as in 1958

    The "8" comes from 8* of bounce which the old staff was stock and the Cleveland standard stock version is too.

    One of the newer T Mag wedges is also a copy of the tried and true design complete with the bore through hosel and red plug like the original Wilson. Cleveland never did a bore through 588 to my knowledge


    Sorry there Stu, but have to call you out on this one, unless you have something else to back it up.  From this article, the "5" comes from it being Cleveland's 5th design and the "88" comes from being released in 1988.


  • Create New...