Kansas King

I'm not arguing one over the other. In the world of golf, one will not yield any better real world results on the scorecard. Almost all Ping irons, including their S-series, were all cast up until they came out with the Blueprint irons. Bubba Watson won his Masters using cast irons (Ping S59). I'm simply stating that design is more important in golf over manufacturing method. I like forged irons but that doesn't make them better than cast even if the clubs are vastly different from a metallurgical point of view. Golf does put quite a bit of stress on components but a golf ball is a marshmallow relative to how hard any cast or forged iron is. So does forged or cast matter in golf from a performance point of view? No. They may feel a little different but that is about it. Face hotness and consistency all comes down to design and manufacturing quality whether cast or forged.

Feel is not determined by forged vs. cast. It's determined by the materials, design, and largely, the center of gravity (CG) in relation to the ball strike. The "solid" feel from iron shots is when you strike a ball with the CG at or below the midpoint of the ball (0.84"). Every iron will have a different "solid" feeling assuming the direction of the club's CG is below that of the ball's. I've personally, always found that cast irons felt softer than forged. Look at cast Cleveland wedges as an example. Those are generally regarded as some of the softest feeling. Some of the firmest and least pleasant irons I've ever hit (IMO) are the Miura 501CB irons. Miura fans will claim they have a "dense" feel or straight up claim the metal is more dense and that's when my BS meter just about explodes. Miura makes pretty irons that are well made to tight tolerances but in no way do the foundries in Japan somehow impart any real magic on golf clubs. I personally like forged irons. However, the whole mystique of them being soft is generally utter BS. The softest forged irons I've ever played were the 2007 Callaway X-forged irons. However, those never felt as soft as my cast Callaway X-20s did on good shots. I do think most traditional forged irons (not goo filled hollow bodies) give better feedback on how good a strike was. Cast GI irons can sometimes feel a little "numb" IMO where you just don't feel anything. Going from a G410 to a ZX5 is a pretty big change but I wouldn't expect the ZX5s to feel any softer or better, per se. Just different.

I tried the larger grips for a long time and when I went back to a normal pistol grip, my distance control improved dramatically. I know in theory that it shouldn't matter but I think it does. I'm not against bigger grips but I think loss of feel and distance control are related. Like all things in golf, there are tradeoffs. If you feel there may be something to gain with a smaller grip, you should try it. If you have a good stroke, I don't think changing to a smaller grip will cause any significant issues. You can always go back to a bigger grip.

Those are interesting. Ultimately, I think the progressive set as we have it today is the way it is because it maximizes performance. I do like the EQUS idea of three lengths and I especially like their attention to detail regarding MOI and CG matching to make the set feel right from top to bottom. I'm curious if they are still in business or not because everything is sold out online. Ultimately, I think my one big hang up with the whole one-length concept is the claim about only needing one swing. I like the idea but does anyone every consciously pull out a longer or shorter iron and say to themselves "I need to use my flatter swing from this 5-iron since it's longer". I don't think so. I think most people who are experienced golfers know that on days you have truly good swings, you can hit every club in the bag without issue. I'm fully on board with the idea of maybe shortening the longer clubs in the bag to improve control, however. I don't think the end solution is single length. In fact, I think the ultimate solution to fitting is variable progressive length sets but fittings will involve finding what the best length is for the shortest and longest iron, then building a progressive set between those two lengths. The challenge will be getting companies to build iron heads with enough weight adjustability to fit a wide range of lengths.

They look nice but maybe a little chunky. Chunky isn't a bad thing though. Hard to beat the price for assembled clubs. $350 for 4-P is a great deal and even makes Maltby's new offerings look expensive at $449. I don't know a lot about the TT Feather Flight shaft but I'm sure it's comparable in performance to the TT LT Score shafts that Golfworks puts in their standard Maltby Paks. Being able to add TT DG shafts for only $12/club is also a good deal.

I like the concept of one length irons but I think there is a better middle ground to reduce the single length compromises. I wish more companies made a dual length set or a set designed for less length progression. The only dual length set I'm aware of is the Pinhawk set from Hireko. The Pinhawk set is designed for the 3,4, & 5 iron to be 38" and the shorter irons at 36.5". I think this is a better balance between scoring and long irons that having every iron at 37" to 37.5". I've always found that people stop using one lengths because the compromise is too great in the long run. You could also try building a set with less length progression, starting longer at the wedge and working up from there. It may be a little ugly as it will likely require lead tape but you or a club fitter should be able to work out the math so excessive amounts of lead tape aren't required.

This is an interesting thread. I have occasional bouts of eczema I have to fight through during the winter/spring and the Cetaphil Pro Eczema lotion is a near cure when I remember to apply at least twice a day. The stuff is a little expensive but it works. I would be curious to know if you found any definitive solution to your dry skin @TR1PTIK. I'm guessing the ultimate solution is two gloves. I'm guessing cord grips would be far to abrasive, even if they worked with lotion. If there is a lotion worth looking into for use during golf rounds, it may be the oil free stuff they sell for facial care.

With the exception of your driver, you're equipment appears fine on the surface. I would recommend starting with finding a local pro somewhere and getting a lesson or two. You should be able to find a teaching pro that charges under $60/hour. Ask the pro to look at your equipment and see what they say. They will probably recommend getting a different driver. Budgeting breakdown: $100 - $200: Lessons $100 - $200: Used Driver $100 - $200: Additional Equipment (wedges, hybrids, etc.) Total = $300 - $600 (probably closer to $500) The total costs are going largely be dependent on lesson costs and equipment costs. If you need irons, you can get the Maltby STi2 iron pack from Golfworks fully assembled to your general measurements for $170 if you need irons although your pro may have other good budget used options. I'm also a big proponent of Maltby wedges as you can pick up most of them for about $50 each and they are high quality. I don't want to overly push Maltby stuff but it's generally the best bang for your buck in the whole golf industry even compared to used stuff. I would recommend not breaking the bank on equipment as range balls and rounds of golf also add up and you'll likely be wanting to play more as you improve.

If you're a 4 handicap, you likely know that you probably need to spend some time with an actual pro.

Agree with @RickyBobby_PR. Theoretically, if you swing too hard/fast for a regular flex shaft it will cause a fade/slice. If the ball is always starting and staying right, then that probably could be more shaft related. If the ball is starting left and slicing back to the right, it may be more swing related. Lots of variables at play here and it's unlikely you're going to get it figured out online. If you want to try a stiff shaft, I would sift through eBay and see if you can find the same shaft as what's in your 3W but at the stock driver length. Most stock shafts with the adaptor (make sure it has the adaptor!) sell for $60 - $100. Not a certainty a stiff shaft will fix your ills but worst case scenario you can always resell your shaft without losing too much.

I fully agree with above advice. My advice is to see if you can get a demo or purchase an individual iron off eBay if it interests you. I've saved myself a lot of time and hassle by purchasing individual clubs and trying them on my course. Once you've tried a few different clubs on the course, you will likely start to find that you have a couple flavors you like. There are lots of great clubs out there but it's important to remember that not every iron head is good for everyone. The great thing about trying individual clubs is it lets you scratch lots of itches without having to fully commit. Want to try a muscle back blade? Go ahead. Eventually, you will find an iron head that you find checks most of your boxes. These individual irons may not have the ideal shaft but that's not going to stop you from figuring out if you like a head or not. I've found over the years that you will rarely find good images online that show how an iron truly looks at address. I have been disappointed more than a few times with irons that I thought I would love just to look down at them at address and immediately know that they weren't ever going to work for my eye. I will say that trying clubs out in the wild isn't completely necessary but I personally have found that it's the best and one of the only ways to truly find what will work best for you. There is various levels of fittings and the best fitting will almost always involve going through a thorough fitting, getting the clubs built, using them, and then a couple returns to the builder for adjustments. Most fitters/builders (places like Club Champion) don't ever truly do a top level fitting as it takes a lot of time and money and rightfully so, average golfers don't usually have the time and/or money for that type of fitting. I've found when you try individual clubs, you will know what you want going into a fitting, and you're far less likely to be blinded by whatever forgiveness the mats and perfect conditions of an indoor hitting bay provide. I also believe that if you try some individual clubs on the course and you know what you want when you get fitted, you'll have a deeper-seeded level of confidence in the end product.

I think there is some good advice here. I think fittings for new golfers depends on budget and needs. If budget is not a concern, spend a few extra Benjamins and get fit well. However, if you're not willing to or can't spend an extra $300+ on a fitting, then the free fittings offered in a golf shop will be just fine. There is nothing wrong with getting fit on a SkyTrak launch monitor for free. Average golf shops may not have every shaft/head combo to try for fitting but that won't necessarily be important if you're extremely inconsistent. A basic, no cost, golf shop fitting will generally get you close enough on the length, lie angle, and shaft. Paying money for a fitting from somewhere like Club Champion can be great, but the free golf shop fitting that gets the length, lie, and flex correct will get you a very good set of clubs. An interesting thing with club fitting is that you're fitting is unlikely to significantly change over the years if you're physique stays about the same. You may have slight changes in lie angle requirements and length if you make drastic swing changes but if you get fitted for a stiff shaft today, you'll likely still be fitted into a similar shaft a few years down the road. So there is nothing wrong with spending the money for a good fitting if you want to as it's not necessarily a waste. Used clubs a slightly different story. I highly recommend buying used clubs in a golf shop where you can hit them if possible if you don't know what you want or need. Used clubs a little dicey because many online and eBay sellers will advertise them with "standard" length and lie angles but reality is generally very different.

Agree with the other two replies. It's important to remember that shafts are designed to repeatedly deliver the club head in the correct position on each swing. Shafts don't do anything mechanically to add distance or increase accuracy. There is no "whip" that adds distance. Every shaft has characteristics that make it behave in certain dynamic ways. The goal is to find the shaft that optimizes accuracy and distance while also "feeling" good by generating the correct swing weights and/or MOI. To find an optimal shaft, you need to spend time with a fitter on a good launch monitor. If you get some experience with a shaft and really think you might like it, try it one iron like a 7 iron. There is not benefit in spending a bunch of money on new shafts if they aren't going to fit well.

I'm very much looking forward to TS3 variant. However, it sounds like were looking at late '23 into '24 before they are released. It sounds like they are really fighting the supply chain and everything is taking a long time. I'm going to be curious to see if the TS3 is going to be a good replacement for the TE. The TE has a very low COG and the TS3 looks like it has a lot of mass down low. It seems GolfWorks will make an iron until the day it stops selling, so I don't know that we will see the end of the TE/DBM anytime soon but the TS3 looks like it will have a lot of overlap. I really like how the TS4 is looking but if I can get a similar profile in the TS3, I'll take the extra forgiveness the wider sole and slightly higher MOI will provide.

Honestly, I really like Maltby stuff. You can build a whole new Maltby bag for well under $1000 or even under $500 depending on what you choose and they would be built to your specs. I'm sure you're more referring to the more traditional OEMs. You probably won't be able to find any sets for much cheaper that new than what you put together. The only way to get way cheaper is if you include stuff like Costco wedges or used clubs but that immediately brings Maltby back into the picture for me.

I discovered what it was like to use a heavier swing weight and shorter driver back after the Callaway FT-9 Tour came out. I don't know what the swing weight was but the head felt heavy. I think the club was 44" or 44.5" inches long and all I can say is that I always felt confident with that club until the head broke :(. I currently use a Cobra Fly-Z+ that I like and generally strike well but I still don't have the confidence I had with that FT-9 Tour. I think club length is something that should be addressed more often in fittings. The industry seems pretty dead set on the 45.5" to 46" driver but I think most people would have better real world results with drivers that are 45" or shorter. I know a good fitting can go a long way but shortening a club by an inch represents a lot of physical control that is difficult to compensate for with even the best fitting shaft. I personally have the Lag Shot 7-iron and should sell it as I thought it was detrimental to my game. I like the concept but it just wasn't for me. If anyone wants it, let me know. If I replace it with anything, it will be an Orange Whip or something similar.

I find the amount of counterfeit grips for sale always astonishes me. I understand things like fake Scotties and other putter but the grips always catch me a little off guard. I suspect that molding a rubber grip in china is extremely cheap relative to the $10/grip they sell for here in the U.S. I mean, just look at the legitimate cheap grips you can buy from places like golfworks. Prices have recently gone up a little but there used to be a ton of Grip One brand grips that sold for $1.50 to $3 each. I put a couple on some test clubs and they were good enough that I would recommend them if someone was on a budget.

I really like the CBX line. However, I wasn't a fan of the stock shaft in the original CBX as it was too light for me. The heads are great though.

I'm indifferent. People generally get used to whatever they are using, so it's unlikely to matter once you've used them a little. I've had irons build both ways and neither made a difference. The only thing I can find distracting is if the grips aren't installed relatively straight, untwisted, and centered.

Hybrids have improved some on the technology front but it's generally limited due to the smaller physical size of the hybrid head. The biggest changes have mostly been on the design front where you can get a hybrid in just about any shape or size you could imagine. With the correct head and shaft you can get whatever launch and spin characteristics you desire for about any given loft. Will a new hybrid lower your scores? It really depends on how well you're current hybrids fit your needs. If you have old Nike hybrids, they may fit you just fine and still perform okay. I think you could more than likely find something better today if you were able to get some time on a launch monitor at a golf shop or had a proper fitting. I know a bunch of people that still swear by their old Adams and Ben Hogan hybrids that are still in their bags. Again, it really depends on your needs. If you trying to fill specific yardage gaps and your Nike hybrids go those specific distances, then what you have may be sufficient unless you are looking for a different spin/launch profile. If you're needing a hybrid for max distance, then some the new stuff is much hotter and will give you some gains relative to the old Nike stuff. To sum it all up, there have been quite a few technology improvements in golf since the early 2000s. However, most of that improvement has really been in drivers and woods. You could argue the real world scoring and performance improvements in everything below a fairway wood has been relatively questionable. The biggest improvement in the last two decades has been proper launch monitors for good fittings.

For anyone reading through this thread with an "itch" for blades. It's relatively cheap to just buy one or two irons and give 'em a try. There are lots of decent and not exceedingly old blades out there that you can buy an individual iron of to give a try without having to spend a few hundred bucks on a used set. Buying used sets of blades will often yield some weird results as the golfers that use blades full-time generally have very specific fitting needs. You will find all sorts of weird crap when you take apart used blades such as excessive weight added to the bottom of the shaft in the hosel, lead tape, various levels of tape under the grips, and even some custom grinding on occasion. You typically don't find the weird stuff if you're buying irons being sold individually that may have just been a demo iron or was an extra.

Blades are generally okay to play with. I currently play the Maltby MMB 17s which have the be the most forgiving "blade" in existence. I put the 7-iron up against an MP68 7 iron with the exact same shaft/specs and the Maltby felt like a GI club compared to the Mizuno. It was really is interesting and validated the specific COG measurements by Golfworks. The MP68, like most blades, has a COG that is a little higher and closer to the hosel than the center of the face. Not surprisingly, most solid strikes were right where the Golfworks measurements said they would be. I also found it more challenging to have repeatable solid strikes with the MP68s over the Maltbys. I thought the MP68s were far better looking and had a much nicer appearance behind the ball but they were challenging to repeat truly solid strikes. The driving range had a green I was taking aim at and I can confirm that the yardage loss on the slight mishits on the Mizuno was real and appeared to be about five yards when I had a decent swing but the strike was not quite on the COG. The MMB 17s offered a lot more forgiveness but they are a different design that I'm sure some wouldn't even question calling a true muscle back. Ultimately, most people I see playing blades for "the fun of it" put them away after a few weeks once they get past the honeymoon period. Eventually, most can feel that a majority of their shots aren't flushed and don't feel like butter. However, I think when people do get experience with blades, it's more likely they buy a combo set with blades in the short irons for their next set. I have yet to find any GI iron that competes with the consistency of a more compact forging in the shorter irons.

Honestly, are there any bad wedges?\ Wedges from any reputable golf company along with those from the likes of Sub70 and Maltby are all going to be good. It's mainly a matter of fit. I'm very partial to my Callaway PM grind wedges for my 56 and 60. I tend to prefer gap wedges that match my iron set as they tend to offer more consistent performance on more regular squared up swings. My current setup is Maltby MMB 17s down to gap which is 51*, then I have a PM Grind 56* and 60*. I've used Scor wedges in the past with much success. Scor now goes under the Eidolon brand now. All in all, you can't go wrong with whatever you choose for the most part. There are some more unique wedges out there that have different purposes like the Mizuno ES21, Cleveland CBX, and Callaway PM grinds. I really like the CBX wedges if you have any turf contact consistency issues. I don't know a lot about the ES21, but it's a very different looking wedge in person. If you're on a budget, you can't beat Maltby. However, it appears you're from SA which may make some manufacturers harder to buy from.

If you're really in it for accuracy, you may want to try a 4 wood around 16*. However, you're going to really need to hit a few balls on some form of launch monitor just to make sure the shaft is close enough for you. If you're really serious about accuracy, you may want to heavily consider a custom fitting and getting a 3 wood and have the shaft shortened slightly by 0.5" to 1" depending on original factory length. If I recollect, the shafts in all the RBZ stuff were on the longer end for their time, so if you can hit it straight, shortening may not be necessary. Overall, lots of options in this area. The optimal and boring answer is to get properly fit. If you don't want to go through a fitting, try and hit balls at a golf shop that at least has a SkyTrak to get some general numbers. I wouldn't expect to see massive differences between an RBZ and new FW today unless you are able to find yourself a lighter shaft that performs well.

The engineering behind golf clubs, especially players irons, isn't exactly rocket science. Read into club design a little from those who publish like Wishon and Maltby. You will likely come to the conclusion rather quickly that when you are playing and designing within the confines of an iron, especially smaller players iron, there is only so much you can do. The reality is that most clubs today are usually at the limit of materials and/or the rules. The end result over the last decade hasn't been so much improvement in clubs as much as simply designing clubs to meet the preferences of more golfers. Some golfers need more help with launch while others may need more spin while others maybe just want to maximize distance. No one iron or any amount of R&D can combine all those into one iron and generally speaking, what the big OEMs do design wise isn't greatly different from what DTC companies do. The general trend in the golf industry isn't always to chase the next best thing but sometimes it's just to chase the next BIG thing. There are tradeoffs in every design and what's new today isn't always what's best for each golfer.