[jbern Intro and WITB]

Thank you for the support @jbern! If you ever need anything let us know...and you should definitely come down to visit us in Sycamore whenever you get a chance. It's a great time and there's no cost for fittings.

[deWiz Golf Swing Modifier - 2023 Forum Review]

My final thoughts have been updated on the first page of the thread. Thanks everyone!

[2023 Titleist White Box Testing Thread]

Just a quick follow up. I was able to play two rounds with the test ball outside. I really liked it. It was definitely pretty low spin and long. Good launch window for me with driver, irons and wedges. It still had plenty of check around the greens for me too...actually more than I expected which left several chip/pitch shorts well short. 

[deWiz Golf Swing Modifier - 2023 Forum Review]

Just a quick follow up on the last few times using the deWiz Swing Modifier.

I had a chance to get it out on the course again. The first time was the day I received the unit and I think I had 2-3 swings register. I accounted that largely to the fact that I was using a cart and my very quick pace when it comes to addressing the ball and hitting it. This time I had 17 swings register. Not great but at least it was an improvement. While I wasn't constantly looking at my phone during the round to track progress, I'm sure a number of the missed ones were due to not addressing the ball and staying still for a second or two. I was also in a cart again so some of the swings could have been missed due to being outside Bluetooth range. All things considered I don't think the on course mode is really for me. I'm just not interested in going into apps, selecting clubs, live tracking results, etc. Without that diligence it's really hard to do much with the info. I WILL try and get it out during another practice round at some point and really focus on logging all of the information but it's just not something I see myself doing very often at all.

I have been using it more frequently indoors and have really focused on the Practice & Learn options. In that menu you can practice Transition, Tempo, Length of Backswing and Distwedges (length of backswing on wedge shots). I've found them helpful and the immediate feedback from the phone audio is great. I think this will be where I spend 95% of my time with the app and will just slowly adjust goals and get them tighter and tighter. I've dabbled with but haven't spent a ton of time with Distwedges since I wasn't fully confident in what my norms might be for specific yardages...but my next step is to practice hitting a variety of yardages and tracking the backswing lengths. Once I have those I should be able to go into Distwedges and set up "Gears" that are backswing length targets generally resulting in specific carry distances. I should be able to get a lot more out of wedge practice at that point. I have been a sub 5 handicap for the last few years but I believe my wedge game, especially in regards to consistency, could definitely improve. I do think pairing the Distwedges with a launch monitor or even at an outdoor range will really help with getting more consistent carry distances when I'm inside of 120 yards.

[deWiz Golf Swing Modifier - 2023 Forum Review]

My back is still a little wonky but I've had a few other quick sessions with the swing modifier and also had three other people give it a try. They're all very knowledgeable on the golf swing and very low handicap players. I think the most common immediate reaction is "yeah this is cool and there's a lot of information...but what do I do with that information?"

I don't know how realistic it is and with as many variables as there and every golf swing being unique, but I do wonder if it would make sense to have some kind of "Recommendations" or "Priority Areas" that the software would highlight. Just something to help people understand what metrics they could improve on quickly rather than having to dive into all of the information, descriptions, etc. to try and figure it out. I've had a relatively difficult time figuring out where I should focus my time as well just because there are so many different routes you could take. 

[2023 Titleist White Box Testing Thread]

3 hours ago, Randall Robbins said:

Thanks, Jay.  Glad your back is on the mend.  Been there, done that.  Review is pretty much what I saw/felt with live play.  Good stuff.

Thanks @Randall Robbins! I've had a few minor flare ups over the last year or two but that was the worst of them all. I better get back on the stretching/PT schedule I suppose.

I'm hoping to get the prototype out on the course sometime next week. Unfortunately the weather has been terrible for the last 10 days or so...but there's some potential for a week or so from now. I don't know if it's the ball for me but all in all I'd say it's not a bad option.

[2023 Titleist White Box Testing Thread]

Hello everyone. Jay from Sub 70 here. First off, sincere apologies to the moderators and Titleist for my delay on my testing. I dealt with a herniated disc in my back two years ago and ended up going through PT and then getting an injection for it. I felt a shooting pain in the same area of my back when I was lifting something about 10 days ago and really haven't been able to swing a club without pain since then. I rested it for the last week and finally go to the point where I could reliably swing a club for more than 10 swings. 

I'll skip the box and ball photos since they are posted often earlier in this thread. I've switched ball models pretty often over the last year or two...Pro v1, AVX, Snell MTB-X, Tour BX, Clear Green and Black, etc. The biggest issue is that two years ago I was a very low driver spin and high iron spin player.  I'm talking like 1800 driver spin and 7000+ with a 7 iron. That has almost completely flipped due to some swing changes and now I tend to have pretty moderate driver spin (2400-2600) and lower iron spin. 

For these first testing sessions I hit shots with the Titleist test ball ("proto"), the AVX, and the Clear Tour Green ball. I started playing the AVX because I hit the ball extremely high and wanted to see if I could get something in a more penetrating window. I used Dynamic Gold S400 shafts for the 50 yard and 120 yard shots and then Project X 6.0 steel shaft for the 170 yards. I wasn't really surprised by much with these three yardages...except that the Tour Green spins like crazy. The AVX and the prototype weren't far off from each other in terms of launch and spin. Biggest difference probably being the 50 yard backspin numbers but the std dev for the proto was pretty big. I may have had a 6500 spinner in there or something.

 

 

 

After that session I had no chance putting together enough good driver swings due to my back issues. I got to that today though and was really impressed by the results. If you go with the same efficiency then the AVX was about 0.5mph faster but that's splitting hairs with about 10 drives hit with each. But the proto launched slightly higher and spun slightly less so it ended up being four yards longer. Unfortunately I didn't hit the Tour Green because I ran out of time but I'll circle back to that at some point.

 

I'll put it through some more testing in the coming weeks and try to report back with a bigger sample size. But all things considered it seemed fairly comparable to the AVX. I may need a ball that spins more off the irons but that's on me.

[deWiz Golf Swing Modifier - 2023 Forum Review]

I updated my original post. More to come. Some interesting results. For example, based on my understanding, when I was hitting significant draws/hooks my transition was actually higher (positive number) and my transition was more "over the top" than my normal swing...

 

I updated my original post. More to come. Some interesting results. For example, based on my understanding, when I was hitting significant draws/hooks my transition was actually higher (positive number) and my transition was more "over the top" than my normal swing...

 

[deWiz Golf Swing Modifier - 2023 Forum Review]

Hey everyone I'm really looking forward to testing this product out. My name is Jay and I am the Director of Marketing at Sub 70. Over the last three years or so I've floated between a 0-4 handicap. The winters are long in the Midwest though and I have access to our fitting facility and have a simulator setup at home. I'm also a crazy person and will play if it's 40+ degrees and not raining. I struggled quite a bit with consistency this year and for the most part have always been a very shallow, in-out swing player. I've been working on getting the club going back on plane a little better and not getting stuck on my back foot. I have a good understanding of the golf swing but admittedly struggle with applying changes to my swing or feeling exactly what is happening. I think the deWiz Swing Modifier could be phenomenal tool to provide me with the feedback and information that I need to actually make noticeable improvements. More information to come but I am VERY excited to put this through the paces and also share it with our fitting instructors and other team members at Sub 70.

 

Update #1 - 11/17/23

I received my deWiz swing modifier earlier this week and finally put it through some proper testing this morning. 

FIRST IMPRESSIONS/UNBOXING: 9/10

The outside box that the unit arrives in is just a regular brown box. The actual product box is then inside so it's well protected. It's very minor but I think a deWiz branded outside box would make the presentation quite a bit better. The box the unit itself comes in is nice and everything is packaged as you would expect. 

I do not wear a regular or smart watch so one thing I was interested in was the clasp, size, comfort, etc when wearing the watch. It fits great and I can't imagine many people having an issue with sizing. I'm curious how the clasp will hold up over time. It has three prongs that go into the wristband and if it's put on and taken off from the same spot over and over I think it may wear out those spots a bit. The strap doesn't seem easily replaceable so hopefully that's never an issue.

 

Session 1 - The day I received the swing modifier I had a round planned so I brought it along. I tried using the On Course mode and unfortunately only 4 of my swings from the entire round registered. I can attribute that to a number of variables and 100% user error on my part though...

I don't keep my phone in my pocket and was riding in a cart. That being said, it should've been in Bluetooth range for 30+ of my shots...Basically every full swing shot. 

The primary issue is that I play and swing VERY fast. On the swing part I'm not talking about club speed but my natural setup and preshot routine are fluid and quick. The swing modifier requires you to address the ball for maybe 1-2 seconds before it chimes to let you know it is ready. I'm sort of in motion all the time and don't stand over the ball very long whatsoever. I'm sure when I go back on course and wait to make sure the swing modifier is ready it'll be totally fine. It'll just be a little strange for me because I'll have to force myself to address the ball and stay still. I really don't think this is an issue at all for 99% of people though. For whatever reason I just take a quick practice swing, pick a target, maybe waggle the club once and then hit the ball. 

 

Session 2 - I was able to test the deWiz swing modifier indoors on a launch monitor today. It's going to be interesting to compare data from the deWiz to the club data from the launch monitor. It was a relatively quick session, but I tried hitting about 10 shots without any manipulation, 10 shots with a significant in-to-out path (draw/hook), and 10 shots with an out-to-in path (fade/slice). My natural club path is 2-3° in to out at the moment. I'd like to get that a little more neutral and more importantly more consistent. 

I'm still learning which deWiz metrics are most closely tied to certain results...tempo, backswing length and a few others are relatively straightforward. There are really nice explainers like the one below for each metric 

Here is my data from both the launch monitor and the deWiz. They're in the order listed above (normal swing, draw/hook, fade/slice)

 

 

I need to take some time to dive into these a bit more...and there are more metrics to consider which I can share if they're of interest. But all in all so far I think it could be a very valuable tool IF you know what you are looking for and how it impacts your golf game

 

FINAL THOUGHTS

First Impressions (9/10) - more details above

Aesthetics (10 out of 10)

The device itself is high quality and comfortable to wear. As someone who doesn't wear a watch I had no issue wearing it while swinging a club. As noted in my first impressions post, I think they could spruce up the exterior box that it ships in but that is nitpicking. The box the device is in is perfectly adequate. The instructions are clear and the onboarding process with emails to training materials, support groups and other resources is very well done. The app itself is great as well.

 

The Numbers (17 out of 20)

There is no doubt there is a lot of data and information to glean from the deWiz swing modifier. The issue isn't how much data it provides but understanding and utilizing that data. I'm not a teacher or swing guru by any means, but my understanding of the golf swing is more advanced than most and even I found myself spending a lot of time watching videos, reading other posts and diving into other resources to understand what certain measurements were etc. I'm sure it would be a bit overwhelming for the average person and ultimately they probably wouldn't know what to work on...or put in the time/effort needed to really understand everything. Then again, I'm not sure this device is really target toward the "average golfer" given the price point and depth that it goes into. As other testers have noted...unless you are willing to put in the time/effort to truly understand the data then you would probably be better off having a teacher analyze the data and help guide you in the right direction. Once you identify the areas that can be improved on and establish some target numbers then it would be easy for anyone to work on at home, at the range or on the course. I do think it would be a great tool for golf coaches/teachers as you can identify potential areas for improvement pretty quickly and then try and dial those in over time through the Practice & Learn section. 

 

On-Course (17 out of 20)

Admittedly I am not the best tester for on course purposes. I just find it cumbersome/annoying to have to input data after every shot while I'm out playing with other people and trying to play quickly. I did test it out though and I think it would be a good tool for people who are interested in that kind of tracking. My only knock would be that due to my quick/fluid pre-shot routine I constantly had swings that did not show up. I had to purposefully pause over the ball. I don't think there's a way around that for deWiz...the device has to know you have addressed the ball and then measure the swing accordingly...but for me I had to go away from my natural process and rhythm if I wanted swings to register.

 

The Good, the Bad, the In Between (18 out of 20)

The app itself is great and the data is easy to go back and review. It's nice to be able to create the sessions, name them, compare certain values across sessions to track progress, etc. 

The device works as intended and provides a ton of information. What you do with that information is the more difficult part. I think it is valuable and can certainly help people play better golf...but it's going to take some time and energy to really figure out what you need to be working on. It's going to take some commitment from the user.

I think there could be additional "Practice & Learn" modes. Possibly with more clearly, simply defined relationships to whatever measurement you are working on...struggle with impact consistency? struggle with distance control? struggle with a slice? struggle with a hook? struggle with height on iron shots? etc. I'm sure it's incredibly difficult to directly correlate any one measurement to a specific result since there are a lot more variables in the golf swing, but maybe there's room for improvement there. 

 

Play it or Trade it? (16 out of 20)

Honestly this is up in the air for me. I DO think it is a great device. The problem mostly stems from my very basic understanding of the data and my general lack of understanding as far as what makes the most sense to work on, combined with the time required to really get the most out of the deWiz swing modifier.

I don't know if my skill level has anything to do with it, but even the first time using it my numbers were fairly good across the board. The only way I can really get any kind of outlier is if I try to drastically change my swing just to see what it will show with the device. Even then I don't get anything that's outside of recommended values. For me the biggest benefit would just be tightening things up further. I can use the transition, tempo and length of backswing practice modes and just slowly tighten up the practice goals. The wedge practice will certainly help now that I have an understand of my backswing length for specific yardages.

I will keep using the deWiz during the offseason when I'm basically restricted to hitting balls indoors. It's easy to review the data after swings and try to dial things in. During the season I'm not sure how often I'll be checking on the numbers. It could be useful if things really go awry for some reason and I want to see what may have changed in my hand motion. I am looking forward to some outdoor wedge distance practice though.

 

Conclusions

I think it the deWiz swing modifier could be extremely helpful for a lot of golfers. To actually realize the benefits of the device they'll need to invest some time and energy watching videos, going through the deWiz Learning Center and their resources, posting in the swing modifier member groups, etc. I think it's important that anyone considering this device is aware of that. The resources ARE there. It's just not going to be a "put it on, hit some balls, get better" sort of device. For the PGA Professionals or other golf instructors/coaches, I think there is some serious potential. Gain an understanding of the measurements and the device should quickly identify glaring issues average players have with their hand movement in the swing. For better players it could be used to tighten up consistency in different areas. 

 

Final Score: 87/100

[OEM (Golf Company) Forum Accounts]

Thanks @GolfSpy_APH! We're happy to be part of the MyGolfSpy Forum community. If anyone ever has any questions or needs anything feel free to message or mention us any time!

[Sub 70 Putters - 2023 Forum Review]

On 10/24/2023 at 7:26 AM, MisterT said:

I was interested to read these reviews as I had a Sub70 mid-mallet 002 in my bag for a few years. II really liked (and believe my putting improved) due to the heavier head weight and loved the magnetic headcover. It's a small difference versus one with Velcro, but something I really liked having. When the magnet fell out due to wear and tear, I went online and chatted with a Sub70 rep about ordering a new headcover. He told me I had to call Sub70 Sales which I did... multiple times... and left multiple messages... which were never returned. This was my second time having issues with Sub70 customer service, so I have moved on from the Sub70 brand. I found a great deal on a new Scotty which works just as well, if not better, for me.

That is really disappointing to hear. Our customer service is and always will be a top priority for us. I am not sure how or why your messages weren't returned but that's inexcusable. If you decide to circle back and give us another shot and you ever need anything feel free to message me here or email me at [email protected]

[Sub 70 Putters - 2023 Forum Review]

On 10/24/2023 at 8:40 AM, BallsLeon said:

Sorry to hear about your negative experience, and it is interesting that the putter covers are not listed at all on their site.

As I mentioned in my first impressions, I did dock points for not receiving any shipping/tracking information for the putter, but was curious if this was just due to the atypical nature of the order.  I will say that all of my prior interactions with Sub 70 had been positive: used their demo program earlier in the year and had chatted with them about putter specs before this testing. They were always timely/helpful in their responses, but that all has been through their online chat function.

So, with that in mind (and an empty spot in my bag) I purchased an utility iron from Sub 70 after this testing started. I wanted the loft/lie adjusted beyond the options listed, and they added those notes to my order through the chat function. Received tracking information this time, and arrived eight days after purchase, success!
That being said, I think simply adding a "Notes/Comments" box on the orders page could simplify this process without having to engage their chat. Also, worth mentioning that notes given to chat will not appear on your invoice, but will be added to their internal fulfillment system which I believe is a different system. Definitely not dealbreakers for me, but figured it's worth mentioning.

 

 

Thanks for the message! An email definitely should have gone out with your putter tracking info but it's certainly possible that the system goofed up and it failed to send or that the message went into a spam/junk folder. Either way everyone should get their shipping confirmation with tracking information.

On the "Notes/Comments" idea...we've definitely kicked that idea around. We've even had loft/lie adjustment dropdowns on the product pages in the past. The problem is that it's relatively common for someone to miscommunicate what they are looking for. For example they ask for weak lofts when they meant strong, or upright lie angles vs flat, or they just accidentally select a loft/lie adjustment when they don't want one. The text box idea would work for the most part but would probably still require us to follow up with the customer to confirm things every now and then. I'll bring it up again and see if that might be doable

[Sub70 golf]

3 hours ago, MNBogies said:

@GolfSub70 With cavity back wedges starting to rise, is there any chance you guys are looking into developing this style as well?

Thanks! Nothing that I have heard of at this point though.

[Sub70 golf]

6 hours ago, Ben Joest said:

@GolfSub70 I bought this back in January. During a recent round, on a swing, I caught too much turf. The ferrule cracked off and the graphite splintered.

Not sure if a poor shot is warrantable, but do you guys do repairs/replacements?

Hey Ben thanks for the message! Sorry to see that. Yes absolutely. We have a one year warranty. I would just send an email to [email protected] or give us a call at 877-267-7093 from 9am-4pm CT Monday through Friday and we'll help get that sorted out for you. Thanks again!

[Sub70 golf]

10 hours ago, WaffleHouseTour said:

 

Oh, and if you go, take some pennies for the parking meter...

We keep a ton of coins at The Seventy just in case someone needs to feed a meter haha

Thank you for coming out and visiting us. We seriously appreciate the support. Hopefully you had a great time at The Seventy and in Sycamore in general. If you ever need anything please reach out to us any time!

[Sub70 golf]

2 hours ago, scott80109 said:

@GolfSub70 Are your 7 wood heads back in stock? I just ordered one. 

Yes they are. We won't have it on the website unless there are heads available

[Sub70 golf]

2 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

Humble apologies to Jason/Sub70 for my earlier whining and complaining - guess i was having a bad day and frustrated after a few other big customer service fails within a few days.... So thx to your people for helping make it all good again 

No worries at all! Glad you were able to connect with us today and get some demos headed your way. If you have any questions or need anything just let us know. Thank you!

[Sub70 golf]

6 minutes ago, cksurfdude said:

K going against the grain a bit here.... 

Been trying a few different irons, and wanted to find out about Sub 70's supposedly upcoming new release of a new GI model .. the 749, I think. Been checking the website .. nothing.

Emailed customer service - got back a really bland, informative, generic possibly auto-robo-generated response .. "thank you for your interest in our products etc blah blah etc".

Nothing about my question nor about the new product

Sorry Jason / Sub 70 .. moving on....

Thanks for the message and sorry to hear that. In all fairness there is really nothing for our team to share on that product at this time. We don't have a release date, pricing, etc and our customer support team doesn't have a full overview of the product. If you reached out to any OEM and asked them about a future product they aren't going to share anything. I promise you if our customer support team had information available they would be more than happy to share that with you and help determine if it is a good option for you. We DO appreciate your interest in what we are doing but there just isn't anything to offer on that at the moment.

[Sub70 golf]

37 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Hey @GolfSub70  We are hosting a demo day at our course in a few weeks, from what I understand one of the first in the entire area to do so.  We'[re excited abou tit.

Just in the two days since it's been announced on our FB page, I have had more people ask me "What is the Sub 70 all about" in that time than I have in 5 years.   So that's exciting, to be able to share the store with them.

And to help promote and build the hype around it I figured why not go ahead and orde my very first "senior age appropriate driver"  LOL.....Looking forward to putting this to the test in my CG2 Driver Shootout thread.

 

Awesome! Thanks for talking about Sub 70 and what we're doing. If you need anything for the event or otherwise just let me know. 

 

[Sub 70 699-U V2 Review •UPDATE•]

Thanks for the write up and feedback @berkeleybob! If you ever need anything or have any questions just let us know. We can always change orders after they were placed as long as they haven't gone to assembly yet. We definitely want to make sure the customer gets exactly what they want. It sounds like the 699U v2 is working well though anyway which is great to hear! Thanks again. 

[Long Term Review: Sub70 659 TC Raw]

14 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

So I am still struggling with toe strikes. I know much of it is swing, however I wanted to ask @GolfSub70 for some info on these. 

What are the toe weights for the TC's at? Also if possible could I order some to see if I can tweak it and maybe get them to fit me a little better?

The toe weights are 6 grams. We don't have any other weight options though...and I'm not even sure of any kind of third part of aftermarket option that might work. If you wanted to go heavier you could try some lead tape and see where that gets you though. If it's just flat out toe strikes, and there's no path issue, then it's possible the clubs just need to be slightly longer and strikes would get more centered

[Long Term Review: Sub70 659 TC Raw]

19 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Need to give them a clean after the round today, but the lighting was epic.

@GolfSub70 what do you think?

 

Oowee. That is some rust! I had a set that got that far along after I got caught in a downpour in Pinehurst, threw my clubs directly into my travel bag afterwards, and then didn't get them out of the travel bag until 2-3 days later . Looking good to me though. 

[2023 Sub70 699]

7 minutes ago, Jnoble89 said:

Alright, fanboy moment, but not going to lie, super cool that @GolfSub70 interacts with members and posts on the forum. 

Thanks! It's fun for us to be involved. We love responding to questions and getting any thoughts/feedback we can from actual golfers. I was actually a reader and message board member here before I got involved with Sub 70 haha

[2023 Sub70 699]

19 minutes ago, cksurfdude said:

Excellent, thx for that info .. am looking forward to Spring!

..and fwiw graphite regular, and now some senior, is what I play (plus a bunch of other old retired farts, too )

No problem! And yeah I would imagine we'll have at least a graphite senior option and most likely a graphite regular as well. Thanks!

[2023 Sub70 699]

4 minutes ago, cksurfdude said:

Hello @GolfSub70!

There was a mention of a possible new GI iron coming out - 749, I think? - kinda in-between the 699s and the 799 ... any update on this?

And... Will a demo - with graphite shaft - be made available?

Thx!

Good morning! Yeah a 749 iron model is in production. I believe that will be an April or May release. I don't have anything else to share on that at this point but it'll be similar to our 739 model that we had years ago but with some improvements.

Graphite demo for the 749? I'm not sure yet. There may be a graphite senior and/or regular flex option. We've done that for some models in the past.