MIGregB
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Posts posted by MIGregB
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The biggest problem I've had with on-line or self-help fitting is that I honestly don't know the answer to at least some of the important questions they rely on for their recommendations.
"Do you prefer a high ball flight"? What difference does that make if the higher ball flight is ballooning the ball and I don't have the ability to know decent angle?
"Do you have low, medium, or high trajectory"? Compared to what?? And what trajectory would best match my ball speed?
The best thing I've gotten out of the on-line apps is the knowledge that I don't have enough information to use them.
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Final Review posted!!
If anyone has questions about the new Vokeys or anything in my testing posts, please feel free to ask and I will do my best to answer them. I want to thank My Golf Spy and, especially, @GolfSpy_APHfor this testing opportunity, as well as @GolfSpy_BEN, @Golfspy_CG2 and @GolfSpy_BNG for their additional support during this test.
- snoopy79, GolfSpy_BEN, Chubbs1991 and 2 others
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On 7/10/2024 at 1:16 PM, Shrek74 said:
A question I always wonder about for wedges are their spin and stopping power from 25yds and in as well as around the green (in the rough especially). Does one brand do it better than others? Can I get more aggressive with Vokey in that close than I can with Mizuno (or whomever) due to stopping power? Any data you or the testers have on that would be helpful.
I was able to hit range balls into a target green from just over 25 yards at a local range using my SM10 56.15F SW. I placed my camera at about 15 yards from the white post and it seemed to capture shots pretty well. Since it was an active range target, though, I couldn't walk up and measure exactly how far the ball rolled after landing, but it appears to be no more than 5 or 6 feet. My SM10 60.12D rolled out similarly but seemed to be a higher flight into the green. I hope this helps.
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19 hours ago, Shrek74 said:
A question I always wonder about for wedges are their spin and stopping power from 25yds and in as well as around the green (in the rough especially). Does one brand do it better than others? Can I get more aggressive with Vokey in that close than I can with Mizuno (or whomever) due to stopping power? Any data you or the testers have on that would be helpful.
Sorry for taking so long with my response. Remnants of hurricane Beryl dropped lots of rain in southern Michigan and knocked out Internet in my location most of the day.
I agree with both @Chubbs1991 and @snoopy79. Getting properly fit and keeping fresh grooves will improve results with your wedge of choice. As far as whether one brand has better spin than others, one does, and it tends to change every year. The last Most Wanted Wedge Test (2023 Most Wanted Wedges) rated the Ping Glide 4.0 best for spin (the SM9 was tested the year before so it wasn't listed). But so much goes into how a wedge performs for you that spin alone doesn't make a great wedge, even from 25 yards.
I've owned 5 different brand wedges, and each was capable of spinning well enough. But nothing got through the variety of turf conditions to provide the consistency I've been looking for, until I got fitted for the SM10s. I'm still playing and testing, of course, but my 100 yard approach consistency has gone from missing 3% left, 7% right, 13% long and 21% short to 0% left, 0% right, 0% long and 33% short (still learning my distance control!!).
Left: 2023 SM9 Accuracy within 100 yards. Right: SM10 Accuracy within 100 yards.
Right now, I'm thrilled!
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22 hours ago, snoopy79 said:
....Suffice to say, if you get a SM10 and want to spin it, make sure you are using the proper ball for the results you want....
15 hours ago, Chubbs1991 said:Today was a good round. Pounding rain yesterday and last night so the greens were receptive and wow they were spinning. I agree with @snoopy79 that if you want extra spin these are the wedges you want. .... but I considered myself a feel player and have compared them to my old sm8 and can tell you for certain that SM10s spin more.
I echo their experience! I play -Prov1 X and MaxFli Tour X balls pretty interchangeably as I find very little difference in performance between them (and I just can't pass up the MaxFli 4-doz bargains), and both spin well off wedges. In recent play, I hit a Tour X about 90 yards using my SM10 56 into a softer green with a slight backstop; my ball hopped once about 7 feet beyond the hole, then spun back 6 or 7 feet below the hole. It was impressive! I honestly don't think my SM9 54 or SM9 58 ever did that!
- William P and Chubbs1991
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23 hours ago, Chubbs1991 said:
Sidenote: if anyone gets the chance or feels comfortable hitting a 60, I highly recommended the T Grind.
Played this am and decided I was only going to use my 60 around the greens and there is just something about how it sits and interacts with the ground.Based upon pictures alone, it looks like the T grind is a more heavily relieved version of the D grind my 60 has. Do you feel you need to be more precise to hit it cleanly? Looking back, your 60 has a 04 bounce which is pretty small. Is a small bounce a benefit to the T grind?
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4 hours ago, buckpillar said:
Testers, With the bounce on the wedges, how is the turf interaction? Do you feel that a different degree would be better more beneficial to your game?
Great question! Right now, I'm thrilled with the bounce my fitter put me into. In all cases, he fit me into a higher bounce than I originally had. My set GW was 6 deg but my new Vokey is 12 deg, my previous SW was 12 deg but my new Vokey is 14 deg, and my previous LW was 8 deg but my new Vokey is 12 deg. Playing mostly in Michigan with softer courses, I definitely get through the turf better than before, especially with my Gap and Lob wedges.
I have never been terribly creative with shots around the green which is the reason my fitter chose the grinds he did (F on the GW & SW, D in the LW). But I'm already gaining confidence in shots around the green such that I'm playing around with opening the face on the more versatile D grind LW. IF this progress continues, I can see where I could possibly add a more versatile SW grind to my set-up, but this seems to be exactly what I needed right now.
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14 minutes ago, William P said:
...Having played Vokeys for a number of years, current set approx. 12 years old, the new clubs are night and day....
Congratulations, you were definitely due!!
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14 minutes ago, pma531 said:
I’ve never hit a Vokey wedge before. I’m a bit of a Taylormade fan. These were more than reviews, they were an experience.
Beautiful pieces of equipment, data led fittings, just fantastic
The TaylorMade MG seems to top the Most Wanted list at lot, but I've never had the opportunity to try them myself. The last time TaylorMade MG & Vokey went head-to-head was in 2022 with the MG3 vs. the Vokey SM9 (#1 & #2 respectively). I know Vokey made several changes to the SM10 to improve CG and consistency, but no doubt TM made changes to the MG4, as well. It'd be interesting to see someone with both SM10s and MG4s do a head-to-head. None of my golfing buddies have newer TMs otherwise I'd test them out.
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17 minutes ago, Chubbs1991 said:
What’s everyone’s favourite wedge in the set?
At least at the moment, it's my SM10 56.14F. That may just be because I've had more occasion to use it, but I really like how it performs.
What about you? What's your current favorite?
- Fred Mitchell, KC Golf, snoopy79 and 1 other
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On 6/20/2024 at 10:39 AM, GolfSpy_APH said:
So in all the excitement over the SM10 and with some wedge game struggling really being inbetween wedges and my older PINGs just being worn I jumped on the Vokey bandwagon. Never had Vokeys before and did a little change with shaft, grips and lofts... more updates to come
Since this post, I've been curious to see what bounce & grinds you settle on. Have you been fitted or at least demoted any Vokeys yet? I have no clue as to general course conditions in Switzerland, but I imagine it's similar to northern courses in the US.
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On 6/20/2024 at 9:57 AM, snoopy79 said:
....I am traveling for work next week and will be playing 18 in Orlando with my boss. The SM10’s are making the trip with me. I am very curious to see how they perform on a different grass type....
I haven't been in Florida for decades, but I know their grass is quite different than grass here in MI, similar to grass in AZ & southern CA. How did the SM10s perform there?
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@HeathS16 Quick question. What is the bunker sand like in OK? Whenever I get to play out west, both in the Phoenix area and around LA, the sand is much coarser than here in Michigan and I really struggle getting used to it. I've been told they use coarse sand because fluffy sand gets blown away too easily, at least at the public courses I play.
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16 minutes ago, snoopy79 said:
@MIGregB Nice recap! Sounds like you are still getting to used to them but liking what you see....
Absolutely! I was leery of the higher than usual swing weight, but I believe that it helps me with directional accuracy and getting through heavier rough. I haven't had the need to try many full-swing shots which is still my biggest question mark. I may also end up with a larger gap between my set PW and the SM10 52 than I used to have, but I plan on/hope to be in the market for new irons in the near future so I can address the gap then.
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Another 18, another update on the Vokeys. As far as the overall round is concerned, it turns out that celebrating some returning friends with a huge fish fry and summer water the night before (summer water is like regular water, except it has Margarita in it!!) does not translate into a solid round the next morning… but I digress.
I got to use, well… ‘had to use’ is probably better phrasing, each of the 3 new SM10s several times with positive results.
52.12F: I used it 3 times on full shots, each got through the turf much better than my set GW ever did; a huge goal of mine with this club. I’m learning that the max distance is a bit lower than the set GW, but it’s repeatable. BTW, that’s not a criticism, that’s an observation. Repeatable distance should be a goal of any scoring club.
56.14F: This is becoming my go-to club into and around the green. I managed to stay out of traps, but my GIR was pretty bad so I had various lies with which to use it. I really liked the results I got when striking the ball in various heights on the face (please see my earlier summer water comment
). Maybe there is something to the higher CG Vokey built into this model.
60.12D: I like this club for short-sided situations. I still need to get comfortable with how aggressive I swing it as I was quite short in both cases, but the flight and spin are very impressive.
I plan to get some range time in this weekend, and I’ll report anything interesting as a result.
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52 minutes ago, PhilM75072 said:
Over the years since starting to ue Shot Scope devices, I have used 8 different putters, Each shows up with its own color, though colors repeat after 5 of the same club. You can have as many sets of irons, as many drivers, etc., and provided you created them as different clubs in MyBag, and made them active for the round you are playing, the data collected will be unique to those clubs for club specific data. Following is a screen capture of all the extra putters in MyBag. Also, during this time, I have only used two sets of irons and another screen capture shows how the data for the 5i from each set, for example, is displayed.
I always thought any club data over time should show, but the couple of posts before my 1st one confused me a bit. Thank you for the clarification!
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Well, the skies cleared but the winds were still pretty strong as we finally got 9 holes in yesterday afternoon on a very soggy course. I only had one opportunity to use the 52.12F, and it was a full shot. I hit it 100 yards into a stiff wind, where it backed up 2 feet. My old 50 degree set GW would go 110-115 yards on good shots, but I couldn't hit it very consistently. Yes, this was only one shot, but I was very pleased with feel, flight, and distance (into a stiff wind).
I also only had one opportunity to use the 60.12D. Well, two, but that was because I totally chunked the 1st shot from a very soggy, baren lie. The 2nd shot of 33 yards landed about 2 feet to the right of the pin and stopped there. Very nice!
The club that I used the most was the 56.14F. I had 5 opportunities to use it from various lies. And other than 1 shot out of a wet, hard bunker, I scared the hole each time (still need to work on distant control, though). My playing partners even offered to take it off my hands if I decided against it!
I'm planning on another 18 Thursday so more later.
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7 minutes ago, cnosil said:
My guess is that you didn’t hit the club more than 50 yards so it is only in the short game stats area. Approaches are 50 yards plus. Club distance data would be desired only for full swing shots.
Ah, that makes complete sense! I don't think any of the shots were longer than 50 yards. Thank you!!!
- sellemental and cnosil
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Oh, oh. I just re-read back a couple of posts and see that @PhilM75072 and @tony@CIC have talked about two sets of data for each club. Does that mean the 2 most recent sets of data? Or is that two total?
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It's been a while since I've posted here even though I try to keep up with the content. But I've just run into an anomaly that I can't figure out and I'm hoping one of you have a suggestion. I'm testing out the new Vokey SM10 wedges and just got to the point where I've put them into play yesterday. I added the GW, SW, and LW sensors to the 52, 56 & 60 wedges respectively, added the new club description to "My Bag", and played 9 holes yesterday. I edited and signed off on the round where I counted in the hole-by-hole function that I used the 56 degree SW a total of five times. But that club does not show up in most of the Performance stats. Not the Club Distances (either active or all clubs nor PA, Avg or Longest nor for any number of rounds) and not the Approaches stats. It does show up in the Short Game stats. I know I'm probably having a brain freeze and the answer is staring me in the face, but does anyone have any thoughts on why it's not showing up everywhere?
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So, I'm supposed to be out playing this morning, but storms have postponed things... again!!! In fact, I can’t even upload this update right away because power is out! Geez…
Instead, I thought I'd show so you the results of some testing/practice I got in late yesterday at my usual course in Au Gres, MI.
I started off trying both the 56.14F and the 60.12D around the practice green to compare them to my gamers, an SM9 54.12D & 58.08M. I usually do a bump & run using my 8 iron when there’s nothing in the way, but there are lots of times that something is or that I’m short-sided where I need to stop quickly. But I’ve never had much consistency with either so I was hoping the more generous bounce & grinds made a difference, and at least on the 56.14F, it did. I was very pleased with the consistency, so much so that I videoed one of the shots:
Then, the staff at Huron Breeze Golf Club narrowed their driving range and allowed me to set up my own 50 yard practice station off to the side. That allowed me to use my own ProV 1 balls with a silver dot attached to get some good Mevo numbers. No video, but I used partial swings in both cases.
I do think that the heavier swing weight and the more generous bounce/grind combinations provides me with much more consistent results. Out of the 20 total shots I hit, there was only one of my far-too-typical fat dumps, and it was so egregious that nothing could have prevented it! But I’m not sure what to make of the 1500 RPM higher spin numbers on the 56 vs the 60. The average height is also higher with the 56 so it must be my delivery. I didn’t document where I hit each shot on the club face but maybe I hitting the 56 higher up?? Any thoughts?
Finally, I tested them a bit in the practice sand trap. Unfortunately, they were too busy for me to set up the Mevo for spin numbers, maybe next time. I started out seeing if I could really open up the face and hit some high, soft-landing shots. But I don’t think the full grinds of the F & D are really suited for that. At least I hope that’s the case as I couldn’t come close to any consistency. But squaring up or just slightly opening the face? Wow, what that great, especially with the 56.14F.
I'm really looking forward to putting these in play later today!
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13 hours ago, GolfSpy_BNG said:
Ok here is the deal. You are +1” with a midsize grip that’s only 6g heavier than standard. Now SW for 52 is D3 and 56/60 is D5. That means all 3 went up due to your +1” and no mention of maintaining stock swing weight. I’d wager if you remove the extra length you get right back to stock weight
edit:
This may have come off as rude which isn’t my intention. Your paper with your specs makes zero mention of swing weight and unless the fitter adjusted sw when you were hitting +1” in the fitting then you were fit into what you got.
No sweat, I didn't take it as anything but helpful. I agree with everything you said about why the swing weight would be higher; a longer shaft will produce a higher SW unless otherwise adjusted for (as I've learned during this process). And, at least according to my fitter, Titleist does try to maintain standard SW to their build-outs. There are several ways to accomplish that but I'm not sure what they do. I've read that at least some companies weight sort heads for this very purpose. But I disagree with the fact that swing weight isn't mentioned on the spec sheet. It says "STANDARD" (their bold letters, not mine). And unfortunately, longer wedge shafts weren't available during the fitting to experience them so I wasn't alerted.
However, I apologize to all if my questions and posts have come off as complaining. That was not and is not my intention. This has been an awesome experience! This being my first member's testing opportunity, I've been trying to be contemporary with my experiences throughout the process, so I've been asking questions as they come up. If nothing else, I hope that my questions will help anyone about to go through a fitting anywhere to be better prepared for theirs.
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5 hours ago, MIGregB said:
....I did email questions to my fitter, but I know he's incredibly busy this time of year so I expect it to take at least a few days to hear back.....
Sorry for quoting my own post, but I just heard back from my Titleist Fitter. I guess today's crappy weather has slowed him down as well!
He said that Titleist tries to adjust swing weight based upon the build-out (shaft length, grip weight, etc.), but sometimes something goes awry. However, we could send the clubs back to be adjusted. I've asked what that means because I'm not sure I just want weight added to the grip end if that's the only solution now that it's built. Anyway, more to come...
- William P, snoopy79 and Josh Parker
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OK... I have questions. And I know some of you will have answers... or at least opinions. For those who read my unboxing and first impressions, I commented on what appears to be a high swing weight with all of the SM10s. I still can't find anyone locally with a scale, but I found another SW estimator and it confirms my initial measurements. This estimator indicates:
SM10 52.12F is D6 (the closest to standard of the bunch)
SM10 56.14F is D9
SM10 60.12D is D9.5 (the other estimator had it at 1/2 point higher, E0)
According to the Vokey website, the standard swing weight is D5. My SM10s are 1" longer, which adds to the swing weight (not something I considered during the fitting), and has mid-sized grips, which reduces swing weight. From what I've read, a higher swing weight promotes control on partial wedge shots, which I do a lot of with all 3 wedges. But what swing weight is too high? I did struggle hitting full shots with both the 56 & 60 wedges, but I don't often hit full shots with those. Should I have asked to go through WedgeWorks to get a longer shafted club with a lower swing weight? Should I just shut up and bask in the glory of these beautiful clubs??
I did email questions to my fitter, but I know he's incredibly busy this time of year so I expect it to take at least a few days to hear back. And due to other obligations yesterday and really crappy weather today, I haven't been able to get more playtime in so my mind is wandering. I'd love to hear comments anyone may have.
- William P, snoopy79 and Josh Parker
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Do You Trust Online/Virtual Fitting Apps?
in Fittings
Posted · Edited by MIGregB
I appreciate your info and actually do understand, but that's a much more recent thing (a few years vs. 40+ years of playing). And I know you are genuinely trying to help me so I can better use the on-line tools. I guess I was trying to, obviously unsuccessfully, make the point that one needs to be more knowledgeable about what constitutes good ball flight for their situation/condition to hope to get good app results. More than half the guys on my senior league wouldn't have a clue about anything you said, nor would they know where to go to understand the ramifications of the answers they provide. I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of the regulars on this forum would get better results than the general public, but the general public far outnumber us. So you hit the nail on the head with "This is why online apps can be hit or miss".