gchester33

Set looks beautful! You talk a little bit about additional workability in your short irons as a reason to go with 760's. Do you find yourself using more shot shaping with these and therefore gaining some benefits from them? And do you find yourself having issues in that 7-8 transition as far as club appearance when standing over them?

Hey Sandman, welcome to the boards! Common theme is going to be that you need to get fitted if you're trying to find the shaft that will best fit your game and your style preference. Probably a tough call right now with most shops shut down for fittings. If you know what you like for weights you can at least narrow down your fitting choices to those that fit the weight you like and style then do some research to see information like kick point to find which may help you with lower flight. Ultimately, in my completely unprofessional opinion, you may be able to get something that will work out just fine for you this way. But best bet will be to get fitted.

Ya this was my problem with it. I liked the way it felt off the tee but just could not for the life of me control it around the green.

@edingc, i'm glad to see that someone has found these to be the right ball for them. Whats your driver swing speed?

Stage II review is up including some graphs showing performance differences between the MTB-X and Chrome Soft. And by differences I mean, a lack of differences really. Wish I could have said I loved the ball and think everyone should play it, but I did not see any observable improvements when using the Snell. Still stand behind Snell as a company and what they're doing but I think unless you're an incredibly consistent ballstriker (i.e. not me) and have a high swing speed (> 100 mph) then I can't imagine you'll see a measurable difference. But hey, YMMV. Thanks MGS for letting me do this again!

That bunker save....oh my.

Got to hit around 350+ shot between Thursday and Sunday last week using strictly the MTB-X and Chrome Soft. Took about 150 - 160 swings with Trackman then played 27 holes over the weekend. Couldn't get the driver working properly in the bay, but out on the course I had a few opportunities for direct comparison of the two balls with good tee shots. Honestly though I did not observe a measurable distance improvement between the two. I was walking the round where I played both side by side and let me tell you doing that in 95 degree heat with 90% humidity will drain you. But when I hit both well I found them to typically be within 2 - 3 yards of each other. I like the Snell a lot with my long irons where I use a lot of 4 iron off the tee, it's got a great solid strike and from the Trackman data it looked like a gained a small amount of distance with the 4 iron going to the Snell. However, I don't like the Snell around the green at all. I just cannot get a feel for it. Maybe it's having played so much with CS and having a good feel for it's flight but I can't get this thing to play nicely around the green. With full wedges I'm finding it spin similarly to the CS and provide similar stopping power, but with my around the green shots I can't seem to reign in distances and touch shots. Could be a lack of practice with them on my part but that has bee pretty frustrating thus far.

Unless you've changed altitudes between courses the heat and humidity should improve ball distance (basing this on baseball stats where high temps and dew points increase ball flight). From plenty of heat experience playing here in FL though your body starts to slow down a bit when you're really fighting the temperatures.

Been a busy month over here having just bought a house and dealing with holiday travel. I'm hoping to get onto the Trackman on Friday after work to get the hard numbers on the MTB-X v CCS. Hopefully have an update with those for everyone next week.

Shank, any guesses on why you're not seeing as much spin around the green? And which ball are you comparing to again?

I have also been a fan of the yellow. Makes it much easier to find the ball in the rough, where I spend much of time. I have been finding the ball to be long but it's taking me some getting used to on the short game front. Also have found that the yellow doesn't hold up particularly well to scrape from trees/cart paths.

Someone may have answered this and if so I'll just delete this. But theres an area in which you can drag and drop a picture in the writing area at the bottom (Says Drag files here to attach). I like to build my review in word with the figures where I want them then save them as Pic 1, Pic 2...etc so I can add them in order and place them where I want them. I'll usually copy and paste each block of text until a picture then pop the picture in.

First swing for me. Topped it right into a ravine in front of the tee box. Considered just backing out and sending the balls back right at that moment...

I put it in my stage 1 but I'm going to try to do a 2 ball round some empty afternoon. Haven't decided if I'll play it as a best ball or play each individually

Ok my unreasonably long stage 1 is updated! Had a chance to play a round with the MTB-X and Chrome soft this weekend. Definite differences between the two with regards to feel. The Snell feels so solid that going from that the Chrome Soft makes the CS feel mushy almost. One notable shot was tight drive that I didn't feel I hit particularly well and still wound up at my usual 280 distance that the CS would get on a solid hit. Can't say I noticed a significant difference in spin characteristics between the two based on this round, but I think some work on the Trackman will help quantify that. Also can't wait to see how quickly Snell turns around orders and shipping since I am DEFINITELY going to need another box in order to a thorough review without running out

Let me start by saying how much I enjoyed this process. This was my first official ball test and I found it be enlightening both in how different yet similar these golf balls can be. For the performance portion of this review I focused solely on whether the Snell MTB-X would unseat my current gamer the much maligned Callaway Chrome Soft. As described in my Stage 1, the CS was not a strong performing or consistent ball but I was easily swayed some time ago by advertising and have been using it for about a year. The majority of my testing was done on-course with some statistical backup done on using a TrackMan. I was able to play both balls side by side a couple of times and gleaned some very interesting takes from the time with them. I want to thank MGS and community here for giving me another opportunity to review another interesting product and hope that I can do justice to the both balls. I will open this review by saying that I desperately wanted to love this ball. After seeing the ball buyers guide results on the Chrome Soft I was ready to toss it in one of the many Florida lakes (where most of my balls end up anyway). Ultimately, while I appreciated certain aspects of the ball, such as the feel and sound on tee shots and long irons; I did not find an appreciable performance improvement in any aspect of my game. I did find myself nearly unable to control the ball around the green and did not see an improvement in distance or spin characteristics in comparison to the Chrome Soft. We’ll dive into more of that below. Also allow me to be clear that this is review is purely my opinion and I think it would benefit anyone to take some time trying balls against each other to determine how they perform. Looks & Durability (13 out of 15 points) I wish I could tell you that I have a series of pictures showing how this ball looks after a full round played on it…but I’d be lying because I lose golf balls like it’s going out of style. What I found during play was that the cover did tend to scratch pretty easily during high impact situations (i.e. cart path impact), but I would say it’s similar to the cover on the CS and what I’ve seen from playing Pro V’s. In my opinion that’s to be expected from a premium ball where a softer cover can help to improve feel. If we were mostly concerned with durability we’d all be playing XL2000’s. Overall I believe the ball held up about as well as I expected it to, but I did feel that the optic yellow finish showed more signs of wear than a white ball would have due to it being a thin coating on the outside. I did like the visibilty of the optic yellow finish as indicated in the red circle in the zoomed image below you can just barely make out the Snell sitting slightly out of the bunker here whereas the CS was completely lost from this distance (~200 yards). Sound & Feel (11 out of 15 points) Now this is where things start getting interesting for me because off the tee and with full iron shots I LOVE the way the ball sounds and feels. It feels like you’re hitting something solid, especially when comparing it to my current Chrome Soft. On shots where I was comparing the two balls and felt I hit both equally well I would have guessed the MTB-X was 5 – 10 yd longer than the CS based on feel alone. When hit center it sounds and feels like a rocket taking off. I loved making good contact with this ball. In comparison, the CS sounds gentle even when struck particularly well. The cover on both balls is similarly hard however you could feel a significant difference between the two when struck well. This solid feel also translates to improved feedback on off center hits. You can immediately tell when you catch it right or hit it off center and know exactly where you hit it. With partial wedge shots and around the green it feels crisp and firm and provides a feeling (see the next section for how feeling and actual performance differs) that it’s moving fast and efficiently. The ball gets full marks for sound and feel with woods and irons. I have videos of all the shots I took on TrackMan unfortunately none of them include sound. Putting however I was not a huge fan of the sound or feel. I’m guessing it’s a factor of just being so used to the sound and feel of the CS that whenever I struck the MTB-X I felt like it was going to go careening past the hole. I like the soft smack of the CS when putting and again it could just be that that is what I’m used to but I could not adjust to how hard the Snell felt to the point that it sounded and felt kind of harsh when putting, and I can’t say I’ve noticed the sound or feel bothering me with something like a Pro V1. I ultimately took 4 points off for how much I disliked putting with the Snell. On-Course Performance (20 out of 40 points) As stated above, based on sound and feel alone I would have thought I was hitting this thing like Brooks Koepka. Unfortunately, I am not Brooks Koepka and this ball did not turn me into him and further apparently a golf ball alone cannot fix everything wrong with my golf game. This section will include both my anecdotal notes regarding on-course testing and the results of my time spent on TrackMan. For me to say that one ball significantly outperformed another I would have to see something stand out beyond the error associated with my own impact (the standard deviation bars on the graphs). Interestingly I think I was trying to push the Snell to better performance as evidenced by the increased swing speed in each test, however it was not enough to show an appreciable performance increase between the balls. 1. Driver (7/10) – Hot damn when you hit this thing well does it let you know – I just wish it translated to increased distance. I had the opportunity to play the MTB-X and CS side by side on a few occasions and when I hit both balls well with the driver there was less than 2 yards difference between the balls. I’m guessing with a higher swing speed (I’m 100 – 105 mph) you may see a more significant change in distance between the two balls. While using the TrackMan I wasn’t able to get solid data sets for both balls so in the interest of good science I am not going to include partial information. What I can tell you about my time on TrackMan using both of these balls is that I did not observe any appreciable differences in performance, in fact my best shot on both balls was within 1 yard of each other, the CS had a 0.1 better smash factor, the CS carried 1 yard further but the MTB rolled out 1 yard farther probably due to 200 rpm lower spin rate. Anecdotally I found that the Snell seemed to have a more penetrating driver flight than the CS but I also found that it was more likely to get a little crazy off the tee and led me to lose quite a few of them early on. 2. Fairway Woods/Hybrids (7/10) – Off the tee the same performance implications stand as with the driver. Distance was equal between the two but the sound was much better. TrackMan performance numbers show that I was putting a little extra booty into my shots with the Snells (Mr. Overcompensation over here). However even with a lower average swing speed I was getting a better ballspeed with the CS. I did see higher spin; however, my attack angle would indicate that I was not consistent between balls and if I corrected for attack angle I would probably see lower or equal spin with the CS. Even with higher launch and more spin I was getting better distance with the CS, but less roll out. 3. Long irons (6/10) – I LOVE to hit long irons. A perfectly struck 4 iron is my second favorite shot after that once a round mashed drive. One of the reasons I love to hit my long irons is that I always know how far that ball is going to go. And as long as I don’t get squirrely with my swing I can be reasonably sure that it’s going to take a nice mid-high drawing ball flight. Hitting the MTB-X with my 4 iron was like a match made in heaven. Penetrating flight – powerful sound – and exactly the same 195 – 200 yard distance as I see with the CS. On long Par 3’s I found no difference in stopping power which would indicate to me that spin was comparable between the two. The Trackman numbers say that I was getting more consistent flight out of the Snell (could be poor ball striking on my part) and I was able to get some increased distance on a few, like upwards of 8 – 10 yards. However my spin numbers were all over the place on both the CS and MTB-X so that can lead to some variation. Correcting for club speed I did still see a slight increase in the overall distance from the MTB-X but it’s within the error of my own swing. Just like with the 3 wood I am seeing a significant decrease in spin and a lower launch which leads to more roll. However it also led to an increase in the total distance distribution which is a big negative for a club I use as a scoring club. 4. Mid/Short irons (5/10) – Lets keep with the theme here shall we – if you’re in the 100 mph driver swing speed range, you’re probably not going to see a distance improvement by switching to the MTB-X. As described above, I did like the feel on full shots and felt that it may lend some confidence but it never showed me a significant improvement in dispersion or distance on-course. Part of that is no doubt that I am apparently an “inconsistent” ball striker, who knew! On full short iron shots I did not a significant difference in run out between the balls. Most were ending up within the same distance from the ball mark as I saw with the CS. Trackman number again say I was putting some ass into my Snell swings and was again getting lower spin but launching higher with the MTBX. This led to increased carry and total distance; however, once we correct for club speed we’ll see that increase be essentially negated. 5. Around The Green (0/10) – Now we have reached the crux of why I can’t give this ball a high score. I DESPISED wedge work with this ball. There are very few things in life I will say I hate – olives, That Team up North, when dogs die in movies, and short game shots with the Snell MTB-X. I couldn’t control this thing around the green if it was all that was standing between me and a Master’s Championship. They flew over the green, stopped short, spun too much, rolled out forever, I think one may have gone backwards just to mess with me. Here’s how I felt chipping with the CS. And here is me chipping with the MTB-X 6. Putting (2/10)– as described above I hated the sound and feel of the MTB-X when putting. It was like hitting a rock. Performance wise it didn’t have a significant effect on my putting performance but I felt significantly less confident standing over any putts when using the MTB-X. Part of that is undoubtedly that I have spent so much time practicing my putting with CS that I am accustomed to its sound and feel such that it is what I expect when putting. But I’m not sure I’ve seen enough improvement in any part of my game using the MTB-X to merit going through the process of readjusting to a new ball. So, did the Snell help me to score any lower? Nope! Is any ball on its own likely to help me score any lower? Nope! Right off the bat I took off 10 points for the Snell showing to performance improvement over the CS from tee to green. Then another 10 points came off for my inability to control it around the green. Miscellaneous (10 out of 10 points) The fit and finish on the packaging and balls was fantastic. I like that isn’t shiny and flashy and trying to do anything but package golf balls. I’ll say it again, I love what Snell is doing here with this business model and I support them 100%. Game Bag or Shag Bag? (15 out of 20 points) I love parts about this ball. I love the price, $28/doz when buying 5 dozen is an amazing deal for a high-quality, high-performance premium ball. I was a fan of the yellow ball and how much easier it was to see from a distance. However, as someone that usually plays pre-owned balls though I can snag a dozen ProV’s usually for around $25/doz or I can save even more and keep playing the Chrome Soft. After the MGS ball test I have a lot less interest in the Chrome Soft but I can’t sit here and tell you that this ball performed appreciably better in real life conditions. And honestly with the amount of balls I lose I try to stick to balls I have no real attachment to. Now, if you’re someone who typically plays new premium balls though and is looking to save some cash, I highly recommend trying the MTB-X out. Conclusion I wanted to really like this ball. I love what Snell is doing and I fully believe in the DTC model as a way to provide high quality goods to consumers. My hang ups are simple: I didn’t see a significant benefit to using the ball at any point in my game while I saw some significant detriment around the green and putting. Which leads to say that unfortunately, the Snell MTB-X will not be taking over the ball pocket on my bag. As I have said in some previous posts, I believe dissenting opinions are critical to highlighting the good and bad aspects of a product. This is what makes MGS reviews so important in an industry where many of the YouTube reviews or reviews on other sites are essentially all 4-5 stars. I think people should try the MTB-X and see if it’s the ball for them but I also think it’s important to look critically at its performance and value to you and you alone. Best of luck and shoot low! Final Score: 69/100 (i keep trying to get rid of these pictures, it's not letting me. plz help)

Hello again MGS readers, I’m excited to have the opportunity to provide some insight into another exciting product for y’all. I’m also in the process of finishing up the Stage 2 review of a GolfPride Tour SNSR Contour Pro 140 putter grip, so if you are in the market for a new putter grip (or club grips), head over to my other review. (SNSR Grip Review) I’ve previously dived more in depth into how my life and golf have evolved playing on and off for the last two decades I won’t bore you with the details, if you’re interested please give a read to the putter grip review. I’m a central Florida resident and we are into the meat of the summer now but while plenty of locals take the summers off from golf to avoid the heat, I am more than happy to get out there and play all year so there is no concern about not getting in enough rounds for this review. I will say that this review is coming at the perfect time as my wife is now pregnant with our first, so post-Christmas 2019 my time for golfing is going to take a big backseat. I’ve described my game previously but I consider myself an everyman golfer. I’m around a 17-18 handicap, and I don’t feel that I have a truly dominant part of my game. I’m 30 and fairly athletic so I ride with Phil Mickelson in our shared love of hitting bombs. My typical shot is a high draw with a tendency to either get too handsy and hit massive toe hooks or get lazy and block shots right. I haven’t measured my swing speed in quite a while, but based on some 18Birdies data and my own anecdotal evidence a typical good drive for me is 270 – 285 yds and my typical 7 iron (32 deg) is 160 – 165 yds. I’m currently playing the Callaway Chrome Soft which I picked based on my ability to pick up large quantities for fairly cheap on the second hand market and because I apparently readily give into the marketing hype around “soft” balls. I have grown accustomed to the way the ball feels off the tee and on the green but I am incredibly interested to see what happens when I do an actual performance study comparing the CS to the MTB-X. Reading through the MGS Ball Buying Guide does not start off on a good foot for Callaway as the CS ranks in the “Fair” category for overall performance in comparison to the Snell MTB-X with a “Very Good” ranking as seen on the chart below. As far as ball construction, it’s hard to imagine these two being more different. Again from the Buyers Guide, the CS is a 4 piece construction with an 86.4 average compression while the MTB-X is a 3-piece construction with 114.3 average compression making them among the lowest and highest compressions tested. The cross sections are shown below where you can see the CS has an extremely thin outer mantle with a very thick inner mantle. While I’m not a ball expert I would expect that inner mantle is what provides the low compression. In comparison, the MTB-X has a medium thickness outer mantle then a large core which leads to a much higher compression. In theory, high compression should lead to a more efficient transfer of energy between the club and ball which should increase ball speeds and reduce spin. Thus we would expect to see the Snell be longer off driver but perhaps less controlled and the Callaway likely to offer increased spin with the irons. For a little more information I’ve represented the raw data on ball speed and shot area from the MGS Ball Buying Guide into a visually comparative form below which should help to show the differences between the ball in a slightly more easy to view method. Standard deviations are included which show really just how consistent the ball striking robot performed. Data Comparison 1. Carry is a function of ball speed and backspin. The MTB-X achieves both a higher ball speed and lower back spin than the CS off the driver. 2. Although driver spin is lower with the MTB-X in comparison to the CS, the MTB-X manages a higher spin with the 7 iron and wedge which is impressive and unexpected based on my assumption of compression effects. 3. Iron shot area is split between the two balls with the MTB-X having a tighter dispersion with the 7 iron but larger dispersion with the wedge. The difference in the wedge dispersion is more likely to be within the noise of the data due to the short distances involved. 4. The MTB-X has a statistically significant larger driver shot area. This is interesting as the CS averaged more than 2 yds more offline than the MTB-X (-10.8 vs. -8.5 yds) and the standard deviations for the CS were 30 – 50% greater than the MTB-X on carry yards and offline. The Claims From the Snell website (MTB-X), the MTB-X offers the following: I find it interesting that Snell is claiming a smaller core considering how large the core is in the image above; however, the MGS data backs up the low spin and high speedsuperior distance claim along with the higher iron spin claim (in comparison to the CCS). We don’t have any wind tunnel testing to compare how the balls perform in the wind but it will be interesting to see if I notice any difference when playing these on windy days. The firmer feel claim is easily substantiated through compression testing as was discussed above. Short game performance will be entirely subjective, so we’ll have to do some testing to see how that stands up. First Impressions The MTB-X arrived at my house in a standard FedEx envelope with the box wrapped neatly in thick bubble wrap. Not sure if the envelope is as protective as a secondary cardboard box, but if that saves some cost on shipping which is passed onto the consumer then I’m all in. The box looks super simple owing to the fact that it doesn’t need to compete on store shelves against the sparkle and glamour of Callaway and Titleist. (Everyone else has pictures of the box etc, figured I might save a modicum of space here and direct you to the other reviews for those pictures. After unboxing, I did a quick saltwater float test in order to verify the construction consistency of the balls. I thought 1 of the 12 was unbalanced; however, a second check showed that all 12/12 balls were balanced. I haven’t performed a similar test with a new box of Chrome Soft so I can’t directly compare but it was encouraging that even at this price point we have consistency. The vivid yellow color is bright and luminescent without looking distracting or terribly green. The coloring is consistent and the covers feel soft enough that it they should feel better than an old XL3000 but should hold up to a bit of a beating. I’m going to try to pick up a couple sleeves of other yellow balls to offer a comparison of the visibility of current yellow options especially from a distance in deeper grass. Below are a few images to compare the current test subject Snell MTB-X to an older Snell MTB, a slightly older CCS, and a brand new CCS with a Truvis print (won these in a drawing). The first note I can give from them is how truly bright the yellow of the MTB-X is; it was difficult to get it to focus properly in a photo because of how reflective it is. I’m hoping that comes in handy for all the time I spend in the rough. Interestingly the Snell balls measure approximately 0.003” smaller than the CCS which may affect flight in some ways that I am not completely sure of. During this analysis I also noticed some changes with respect to the seam on the MTB-X vs. the old MTB (the CCS is seamless). On the old MTB’s the seam runs along the alignment line while on the new MTB-X the seam runs in a random direction across the ball. A comparison of the seams is shown in the three images below where the first shows both the old MTB and new MTB-X on their aligment line, the second shows both with their seams aligned, and third showns the seams aligned from a single sleeve of MTB-X. I can’t say with any certainty how that would affect things like ball flight and putt roll but if it’s something you are likely to notice and be annoyed by then it’s worth your consideration. (You will again notice just how reflective this ball is though). Test Methods As with my putter grip review, I like to present my test methods ahead of time so that people can have an idea of what to expect, suggest variations, or tell me to GTFO. The first step I’m going to run is to test a sleeve of the MTB-X in comparison to a sleeve of new Chrome Softs at a shop near me that rents out time on their Trackman. I will at bare minimum obtain 5 well-struck data points which the driver, 7 iron, and PW. Depending on time I’ll try to hit through the whole bag because I would love to have all my gapping numbers figured out. Using that data I should be able to spit out numbers for ball speed, carry, spin, and shot area with each club/ball. I’ll go into more detail on the clubs used for each at that time. Next will be a short game check. I’ll run through some standard around the green scenarios on a local practice green and see if there is a noticeable difference in around the green performance based on resultant proximity and personal feel. This should help to determine if there is a benefit to additional spin and or controllability from the soft to the hard ball. Finally I’ll attempt to play a 2-ball round at some point. Most people don’t like playing weekend afternoons during the heat of the summer around here so I often have the course pretty open. This should allow me to get a more accurate comparison of the two balls on-course in similar conditions. I’ll provide a score for that round with each ball including fairways hit, greens in regulation, approximate tee-shot distance, approximate proximity from the green on approach, and putts. After that round I should be able to give some quality comparative analysis on ball durability, sound, and feel. I haven’t decided if I’ll play each as an individual ball on each hole or if I’ll play each shot twice from the better position and record which ball I use more frequently. I’ll apologize now for this being a long Stage 1, but sometimes you just get it going with the words. I’m looking forward to doing this review and hope everyone has an opportunity to follow it!

You dirty dog, was just considering bagging a new set of the stealths with the price dropped. But now

Hey @jlukes I'm pretty sure this supposed to be a porn-free thread here.

Congrats to both of these guys on pocketing some money and free clubs. Hope they have some great success on tour.

Obviously putter grip reviews are not quite as interesting as a good driver review. But I just wanted to include an update from my testing. I found a graph on 18Birdies which shows my average strokes/rd over time and there is an observable difference in my putting starting from when I put this on. Of the 4 recorded rounds I have been significantly more consistent and averaging less than 2 putts per hole in comparison to my overall average 2.1. That number would likely be lower if I had the other couple rounds I didn't record in which I putted well. Just wanted to toss this out there as an extra bump up to the benefits I saw from the SNSR grip.

Bumping for another Stage 2 update! Enjoy all!

Starting to see these beasts posted around social media as they recently hit the USGA conforming list. First thought was that damn they look ugly. Hopefully the consumer release will pretty them up a bit. Thoughts?

I've always been partial to mallet putters and I find the Odyssey #7 style to be incredibly appeasing to the eye. Also easy to hit.

Would be pretty interested to see if there is a difference in performance in hitting along the seam vs. against the seam. I can't say I've ever really noticed the seam on any ball I've played but now I'm curious.