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bonvivantva

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    rowing, hunting, cigars, sports, skiing, family
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  1. The easiest answer is that you should play the newest most forgiving clubs you can afford. If they're fit to you, even better. If you're not pretty average sized, then fitted clubs becomes even more important. I'm not saying that average sized people don't benefit from fitted clubs, but I have a friend that is 6'10. He definitely benefits more than I do from fitted clubs. Less forgiving clubs may give more feedback. I think they do, but others don't. But to make the game easier and more enjoyable, playing with newer more forgiving clubs seems like an obvious choice. Would you still benefit from practicing some with older less forgiving clubs? I think you might, but I could be wrong.
  2. Just got back. The boyfriend had a great time and shot a 55 (playing 9 on a full length course from forward tees). He had several incredible shots. The only thing I think I would do differently is try to manage his expectations better. He had a few pars, he hit some greens in regulation, and his shortest shot off the tee all day still probably went about 110, so he played great for a first timer, but he was pretty upset about missing an island green 5 times in a row on 18. But bottom line is that he killed it and really enjoyed it. I think he'll keep coming out, and we'll see if he actually gets into golf. Here was one of his best shots:
  3. I haven't been able to play much this season yet. Just got back from a vacation and I played 9 on a full length course. I had a lot of really nice shots, but I'd say more or less I feel into old habits. My sequence was off and I was chunky, probably because I was rushing some, so I scored about my usual on 9. I was also helping a first timer, so that probably affected my game some as well. I did stick an island green on 18 into the wind which was fun, and I hit a shot out of an ice cream consistency bunker about 85 yards and put it about 5 feet from the hole. I know this is going to sound crazy, but I didn't really look at how wide the soles were of the clubs I was playing. I think they were M4s. I do remember the grips feeling very narrow and the clubs feeling very light overall. I agree with 105 vs 125. One is bad, one is so bad you'd get laughed off the course. I'm not saying anyone should be happy with 105, but you can get paired with someone that plays at a reasonable speed, shoots a 105, and not be bothered. It's OK golf. Not something to aspire to, but something it's a little too easy to get comfortable with.
  4. You make a lot of good points. I think I probably should have titled the thread, "CAN wide soles hold you back?" That is an important distinction that I failed to make. I'm not saying forgiving clubs hold everyone back, but I am saying I feel like they held me back in a specific way at a specific point in my progress. I'm also not saying that gaming forgiving clubs was an impossible roadblock for me, or others, that'd be crazy. I think they're best for most, and I do intend to get some when I get new irons. It was really more about vanity and the loss of 20ish yards when switching to thinner soled clubs that caused me to really figure out my swing.
  5. That certainly seems to be the consensus. I feel like Juror 8, but I don't think I'm ever going to get y'all to Not Guilty.
  6. I watched a review once about how they'd help most golfers regardless of ability be more consistent. I wouldn't be opposed to giving them a go. Don't care for the look, but you don't judge a book by it's cover.
  7. If you go back and look at the responses, I think you can find at least one example of assumptions being made... I'm not complaining about the forum, but when I say that I broke my 9i during a lesson and then everyone is talking about how I need to talk lessons, talk to a professional, talk to an instructor, I can't say that's particularly helpful. One last (hopefully) point. I'm not suggesting that I'm going to stick to thinner sole clubs from here on out. I do think that the less forgiving clubs gave me the kick in the pants I needed to get over the hump of swinging OTT and chunky. But now that my path and low point is better, I intend to get fitted (unless I'm just playing out of my mind with my current clubs), and I'll get whatever I hit best. I'm most interesting in trying the new hot metals due to the MGS review of them, but who knows.
  8. I agree that one can improve regardless of their clubs. At this point it just feels like people are responding without reading. For three years I've been working very diligently (though ineffectively) on one task. Fixing my path. I assure you I haven't been lazy or unwilling. I've spent tons of time and money on range balls and lessons. If y'all had read my post, you'd have seen that I have since fixed the issue that was holding me back. The post wasn't about fixing the issue. It was about rather or not you agree that forgiving clubs can stymie improvement. In my case, I believe they did. I'm wondering my my experience can be generalized, or help others. I'm not really looking to argue with people who purport to know my swing, or make assumptions about me.
  9. This explains why I've always struggled with hybrids off firm lies. A lot of people are thinking about this issue from the standpoint of a decent golfer with an established swing (because that's what they probably are). I'm really talking about a poor golfer with a very flawed swing trying to make improvements.
  10. I agree that you can swing any club on the right path. I'm just saying that I didn't quite need to before because I could get away with chunks better. I bet if I switched back to more forgiving clubs after I ingrain this new path, I'd be ever better. I'm not saying that one set is better or different than other in general, I'm saying that the forgiveness of the wide sole/bounce was letting me get away with hitting it fat. Having to swing clubs that didn't let me get away with that forced me to improve.
  11. I'm totally tracking with you on the first paragraph. The forgiving club was fairly consistent. I would OTT chunk it, and it would go about 150 low and left. If my swing got wonky, which if I recall mean that my sequence was worse than usual, the OTT and chunk would be exacerbated. That would make me lose maybe another 10 yards, but the direction typically stayed the same, low and left. When that happened, I could swing harder to hit the ball further, and get back to about 150. That would compromise my accuracy though, with shots hooking more, going more off line, occasionally topping them, etc. With thinner soled clubs, my swing did not change. But the result of my bad swing was worse. I couldn't manage to get the ball out 150 no matter what I tried, so I had to actually address the problem which was path and low point. When I finally figured that out, I started hitting the furtherest and straightest I ever have. Not many people seem to understand what I'm trying to explain, and even fewer seem to agree with me, but I really think that those wide sole clubs were just letting me overpower my flaws to where I could get the ball out as far as I thought I should. With the thinner clubs, a bad swing wouldn't allow that, so I had to adapt, that is improve. I could be wrong, but I really think those old clubs were holding me back.
  12. Thanks for the response. We leave Saturday, and the weather hasn't been great here, or I would have got him out on a par 3 once or twice. He grew up playing mini golf and still plays with his nieces, so I assume he can putt well enough. I realize that's not exactly the same, but you typically know the motion and have some concept of distance control. I haven't actually seen him putt, so I can't say for sure. My dad is probably better qualified for a putting lesson anyway. His chipping is incredible. I haven't said anything to him about it, other than that he is very good. I did show him how opening and closing the face changes the loft, but that's it. He has a real feel for it, and maybe I should be taking lessons from him. My dad agrees that the boyfriend is better than he should be given his experience. We did find out that he's been to a range/top golf a few times. My dad is a naturally gifted athlete, and I don't think he has to think about his swing very much. I tried to explain face to path to him once, and he looked at me like I was an alien. He just hits a draw or a fade without knowing how he does it. Once time he was trying to coach me some at the range, I said that I thought my problem was my OTT path. After I explained what that meant, he said no, I'm just swinging too hard (as it turns out, I think the path was caused by early hip rotation/bad sequence, but I had to figure that one out myself). Long story short, my dad is an excellent golfer, but I don't think teaching is his strong suit, at least when it comes to golf. Despite my dad and I witnessing the boyfriend make great chip after chip, my dad told him to use an 8i and take a putting stroke. Basically a little run up shot from just off the green. That's something I do and it seemed reasonable for the shot in question, but my thought process is why mess with success. Well, it didn't work out for the boyfriend, and then that got it his head. The boyfriend is obviously a lot more self-conscious around my dad than he is with me. But for the most part, my dad just let him swing the club. He was complimentary on his good shots, so that definitely helped him have a good time. We're going to try to get some more simulator time in Thursday (more rain scheduled).
  13. I took a lesson in early December, and I planned to continue. That lesson was actually when I broke my old 9i. Right after I got handed those thinner soled clubs, and suddenly I lost 20 yards or so of distance. Think about how important feedback is to improving. When I came over the top and chunky, I saw 140 max (maybe 125-130 average) with the 7i. A good path and hitting the ball first was giving me over 150 every time. That's a big obvious difference and I really think these less forgiving clubs forced and allowed me to improve path and low point in a way that my old clubs did not. The way I'm hitting the ball now, I feel like I can just improve this current swing and I could get fitted. I did not feel that way at all before. I felt like my swing was constantly changing and that fitting did not make sense. As well as I'm hitting the ball, I think I'll game these clubs for several rounds this spring, see how it goes, and then decide about fitting. My ball striking is just infinitely better than two months ago, so I'm optimistic.
  14. I hadn't considered this, but it's a good point. We're just playing 9, which is probably a good call, but it's a full length 9. It's in the Cayman Islands, so it would be a cool memento. I guess I'll keep it, but try to keep him from seeing/focusing on it. I could also maybe keep his score on my watch without him knowing.
  15. That makes sense. Do you think there is a tipping point of swing quality for fitting though. Like someone with just a terrible sequenced chunky swing (Like I had). Wouldn't it make more sense for them to get lesson/figure out path and low point, and then get fitted. Or do you think they should get fitted and then try to improve? That's probably at the heart of what I'm asking. I think forgiving clubs were allowing me to get away with my bad swing. More forgiving clubs would have only exacerbated my issue. I think being handed less forgiving clubs forced me to figure out my issues if I wanted to get back to where I had been in terms of distance and accuracy.
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