pilot25

That's funny right there given your second statement. Someone seems to always have a friend who knows someone. Yet, answers never appear. Just supposed to believe. Ask them what their manufacturing oversight is in man hours per quarter? Then I can tell you a little about their QC. Do you know how much it costs to station just one person, overseas, to make sure those Asian plants are doing what they are supposed to do. Its a ridiculous amount. What is interesting is the defensiveness of the product. If MGS does actual testing and the Snell comes out like Vice and every other DTC or other manufactured ball with little QC oversight we will know. Until then you don't know anything just because you know Snell's friend who was his one time ex-barber's plumber's helper. The big question is if MGS will do the test objectively. It is difficult, as a company, to trash another companies products when your livelihood depends on industry cooperation.

If MGS testing is accurate then no one can tell if a ball type is crap or good. An individual ball might be good but the whole point of the testing is to find the inconsistencies throughout. You may hit one and its good but the other 11 are garbage because of how they are manufactured. I would like to see MGS cut open thousands of balls purchased from different areas of the country at different time frames to get a better assessment of the testing. Just cutting open stuff you find around VA beach or wherever they are located isn't testing but its a start. So you might think your trying out of a few Snell balls is objective but unless you try it, cut it open, and then do the same over and over. You won't know by trying out a few. That is the problem with DTC balls. They have outsourced manufacturing with little QC. One thing is certain in life in my subjective opinion. Good things aren't cheap. Its simple cost, revenue, supply, demand.

Its an interesting topic because of how people care so much about an inanimate object and brand they have no vested interest in. Even the owner of MGS said in a video regarding how people wear branded hats, shirts, and the like. I say Snell balls are crap based on price point, knowledge of manufacturing costs, and personal observation of people I know who use them. I make that statement and people have a hissy fit because they think they know Snell personally. Prove me wrong. Isn't that what MGS is in the business for? People are so sensitive.

How do you know he put in years of R&D into the "Snell" ball? Isn't that what MGS is trying to uncover with DTC balls? Argumentative to find truth. If everyone is going to agree with everyone then what the hell is the point of testing anything or debating the topic. You are too thin skinned. If MGS is going to start a fact finding mission I'm interested. I'm also skeptical based on some of the things MGS has done and said in the past. Yet, I'm still interested. I don't see why anyone is interested in rubbing the ass of Snell because he did great work for another company in his past. Who says his product is any different than the other DTC balls? Because he put his name on it? Rubbish. Prove it. You want a forum where everyone agrees with everyone to justify your purchases. That's ridiculous. All three forums have a wide variety of opinions and arguments. Spice of life.

I have no beef with MGS. You said millions of views so I just decided to look it up because millions is a crazy amount for a golf site. Especially one not named Golf.com. If you use a VPN your IP will change each time you log on so it'll show a unique hit. That metric has changed how sites can justify ad dollars because people are seeking more security through VPNs. Have nothing against anyone making money on a golf site. As long as everything is as advertised.

Organic traffic is 150k per month. You can look it up. Unique hits aren't a reliable source of traffic due to the increase in VPN use.

Do you get to cut them open? I'd like to see an independent person (not the staff of any site or company) cut open 12 of them and see what they look like. Its not everyday the average person will throw their money away to cut open brand new balls for the benefit of others.

I agree they aren't doing charity work. However, I don't think earth shattering news is coming. I guess that is independent on the person reading the story. If people think they can get a $4 ball for $2 then I guess the news will be worthy. Little web analytics research show MGS organic traffic of 150k per month. That isn't exactly millions of readers.

Why are we holding on tight? Really? Because they want to string out a story to get clicks or because they want to get clicks knowing its a total let down but get what you can get while you can. Its like clicking on a political media story. "BREAKING NEWS....after commercial break..." Nonsense..... If something comes out about Titleist, Callaway, Taylormade, Brigestone, I'll concede the staff at MGS uncovered a story. Until then you get what you pay for and shouldn't disappointed when you get a crap ball for $20-$30 a dozen.

Why? Do you know him personally? How do you know he didn't decide to capitalize on his name and just pump out some crap and make 200% profit. I know people love the brands they love but really? Unless you are related to or work for Snell you have no idea what they are doing and what they are about. It fascinates me the hats people wear on the course with the logos like they are being paid. The apple stickers on car bumpers. If you aren't getting paid by them then why the heck advertise their products on your stuff or person? So passionate about a product you have no hand in. So freaking weird the ties people have to products. As people have posted above, QC costs money and just like any other product for sale, you get what you pay for. There are no work arounds. What is different here is you can't just split the thing open and make sure you have a good product like you can see the seams of a finely made shirt or the wood grain on a crafted table. Ball quality is hidden and you have to believe you are getting something good because the chances the slice into the water is you and not the balls fault. I'd like to believe Snell is an honorable person and wouldn't try to just make a buck with scam pushing his creds but $29 per dozen. Sorry is isn't a quality product as much as we'd like to believe he got around the manufacturing cost system somehow. You want a good ball for your game you are going to have to pay for it. Plain and simple. Mark Crossfield's tweet quoted in the video is spot on.

If you have never dealt with a legal case they can take many years. This case wasn't current and settled and was reported as such by MGS in 2015. This whole video is a regurgitation of yesterdays news. I watched the video twice and sorry I missed the half a second statement of, "several years ago...." Doesn't change the fact the entire video is misleading as today's information. More MGS just riling the masses of people, like me, who don't follow golf equipment every second of the day. Just trying to make sure I'm getting value for my money not reading/watching some story from yesteryear passed off as news. Really, the whole thing is about off brands of balls, no one has ever heard of, sucking. Well, no kidding.

Well then I'm a little shocked, ok I'm not shocked, to see they post this litigation as current. Their picture on the podcast even cuts off the bottom of the document which displays the date. Misleading and seems a bit dishonest. I like some of the things that come out of MGS but more and more there are undertones that they are pushing something that isn't there.

The Titleist lawsuit is from 2015 and already settled out of court, correct?

The cool thing about the Toulon is the off center hits produce a different pitch. At least the SD does. I know this is a Evnroll sponsored site but the Toulon with the proper weighting of the shaft to grip to head is hands down the best putter. If you get fitted for the proper weighting of grip to club head you cannot go wrong.

The SuperStroke Traxion 2.0 with a 50 gram weight is an exact match of the Toulon Odyssey grip weighting of 105 grams. Interestingly enough I have found that the 75 gram insert and an additional 20 grams on the bottom of the sole plate reduces my off center hits by more than 70% easily. My opinion is finding the proper weighted balance for your stroke will make you a better putter. Trying to take a stock putter and throwing a Gravity Grip or other weighted grip on it isn't going to help. I'm guessing Toulon found 105 grams in the grips and 20 extra grams in the sole are the zone for the average golfer. Adjusting both for the individual will pay dividends.

I'm just going to find a 75 gram SS grip and leave the Toulon weight in the shaft. Easy Peasy vs trying to find a new grip with weight to match the Toulon design

I keep answering myself so I'm clearly crazy and taking this too far. On another forum someone replaced their Oversized StrokeLab grip. The weight is 41 grams. It looks like it's probably 40 grams and there is a plastic shroud around it that is probably a gram. The grip itself is 65 grams. Gravity Grip is 123.7 grams. The only SuperStroke grip close is the Mid-Slim 2.0 with a 50 gram weight and grip weighing 64 grams. Also, Sean Toulon has no idea what weight is in the grips of his designed clubs. In that video, he initially says 40 grams then corrects himself to 30 grams. Edit: From another forum pistol grip: 75 gram grip with 30 gram weight Oversized grip: 65 gram grip with 40 gram weight

I keep answering myself so I'm clearly crazy and taking this too far. On another forum someone replaced their Oversized StrokeLab grip. The weight is 41 grams. It looks like it's probably 40 grams and there is a plastic shroud around it that is probably a gram. The grip itself is 65 grams. Gravity Grip is 123.7 grams. The only SuperStroke grip close is the Mid-Slim 2.0 with a 50 gram weight and grip weighing 64 grams. Also, Sean Toulon has no idea what weight is in the grips of his designed clubs. In that video, he initially says 40 grams then corrects himself to 30 grams.

I posted this on the Toulon thread answering my own post in case others are wondering. According to a Callaway/Odyssey rep, the strokelab shaft is meant to pair with the strokelab grip. They have many offerings when ordering but that is to please the masses. If you want the proper weighting that is designed for the putter then you need the strokelab grip with the yellow lettering shown in the pictures from the OP.

I'm going to answer my own question in case anyone else is wondering. Yes, it would be bad on a Toulon putter with StrokeLab shaft. I was told by a Callaway/Odyssey rep that the only grip that is specifically designed for the StrokeLab shaft are the Odyssey Green and Yellow strokelab grips. In order to get a replacement you need to go through a shop. Really annoying......

Sean states they added 30 grams to the butt end of the grip. SS only offers 25, 50, or 75 gram inserts. Gravity grip is 50 gram rod. Hmmmmm....What to do. So what happens if you need to change a worn out grip? This seems implausible that they would design a putter that cannot be re-gripped with the same specs.

Is that the inserted weight? Sorry I'm new to the nomenclature. I think that is the screw in weight and then the total weight of the grip with weight would be about 110 grams. At least, I think it is an educated guess.

I just weighed a Gravity Grip and its 123.7 grams. It has a 50 gram steel rod down the length of it so the grip is 70.7 grams. I imagine this is the exact weight of the SS counter core with the 50 gram insert. I bet a dime to a dollar the Odyssey Toulon or Stroke Lab grips are exactly the same weights. I was hesitant to cut the grip off but the Odyssey garage has the SS grips for an option and I'm sure they are the same exact counter core grips but with special green toulon or yellow stroke lab colors. I have combed all the forums and apparently no one has changed grips on their Toulon/stroke lab putters. Or they haven't cared to worry about the weighting which is integral to the club itself. I can't believe I'm the only one concerned about weighting this thing properly. From globalgolf.com. Its about the Toulon but the shaft, grip and head weights of the strokelab putters are the same. Toulon Putter Models Each model in the line is designed for a specific stroke, from straight-back to strong arcing. In that order (no arc to most arcing), the models are Indianapolis, Memphis, Columbus, Madison, Austin, San Diego, Long Island. Every Toulon putter is also available in a counter-balance model. Further, there are 2 types of counter-balance options, Aggressive Release (AR) and Moderate Release(MR). The AR has a 40-gram sole plate and 14″ Super Stroke grip with a 50-gram butt-end weight. The AR design lets the clubhead release more at impact, mimicking the release of a long or belly putter. It comes standard at 38″ long. The MR has a 20-gram sole plate, standard Super Stroke grip with a 25-gram butt-end weight. It allows you to release the head more with a standard stroke. The lengths available range from 33 inches to 36 inches.

I guess I can cut it off and weigh it then find something of the same weight. Kind of crazy.