Moose4282

Sooo change the balance of the club… shafts, weights, grips… pretty standard stuff. If you are talking about cog placement… thats silly. Now i will say there can be placebo. For example if a club seems to not go left on a player, then they are more apt to swing harder because they dont fear that miss. Still doesnt invalidate a robot test to see of a face is faster or not

No technology is helping that swing… truth

Well actually yea. If its fastest with a robot butnot the fastest in your hands, then something is off… too much loft, etc. would need to make adjustments to maximize it. Or you just have a mental block and well…

No doubt an actual golfer introduces random variables that a robot cant replicate. But all we want to know here is it faster. In certain parts of the face. Control all variables and make them equal, chs, dynamic loft, face angle, aoa, strike location. Let the chips fall where they may. Thats where the truth resides.

Bingo. To do anything less is get lost in clouds

Because what sheils does (and many other yt) is so unscientific in nature. You cant call it a test or comparison of you dont understand how science works. There are variables and constants that have to be accounted for. His approach is incredibly simplistic. Another thing that seems to be happening is ALL reviews im seeing that use trackman has stealth clubhead speed UP 2-3mph and smash actually a bit lower than other drivers, even tho ball speed is up. They all bumble around this fact having no clue what is actually happening. Its sad.

Man I cant stand Rick Sheils, Im glad someone finally called him out. Theres people who believe all the hype every year and theres people who are completely skeptical of everything (like sheils). Imo, he he was biased going into his test (all his tests really). Leave the judgements to someone who actually understands the data, and science of whats going on. I think MGS claims were a tad inflated but multiple people have shown an increase in BS, particularly retention on mishits. I tested the stealth against several drivers (no SIM2) and it didn't blow it away but it did give me my highest average by about 1mph and highest overall BS by 2mph.

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Its from scottys website. I believe odyssey has the same theory. What about reacting to the toe hang? A player feels that toe wanting to open, therefore is more likely to rotate it. If im opening up a face balanced putter, i may not be able to “feel” it, there for i never rotate it closed? Its an interesting topic.

Rebooting this thread because im curious about the contradictory information. More toe hang seems at first glance to want to leave the face open at impact but then i came across this: Totally opposite of some common “suggestions” I typically take my putter outside my arc and struggle with pushes, or an open face, and according to scotty cameron, i would need more toe hang, the opposite of what i thought.... so why is this? One theory i kind of have is, everyone says the putter with more toe hang has more torque and will want to open when transitioning from back stroke to forward. But i think it also helps keep the face closed on the backstroke, because of the same torque like forces are applied from address to starting the backstroke... if that makes sense? Hmm..

No i agree, just wish there was a better term to seperate the two, yes technically they are both counterbalanced, but they are different concepts.

No brainer, the balls.

I used the wrong term, its fulcrum not axis. Imagine a seesaw. The middle triangle where in connects is the fulcrum. Thats where your hands connect to the club. If there is no shaft on the other side of the fulcrum, it dont matter how the weight is distributed, its all on one side of the fulcrum. Now if its swinging, more weight away from the fulcrum would “feel heavier”. So by moving weight to the handle, right on top of the fulcrum or near, you lighten its swingweight, it will “feel” lighter to swing. Now if we put weight on the oppisite side, the effect is MUCH greater, you now have a force counter acting the force in the other side of the fulcrum. All in all its supposed to “quiet” any wrist action one may have. I know people say “ my wrists are locked”... well they think they are, but they arent

Yes sir thank you

But weight at or below the hands doesnt really count. Your hands are the axis in which the club swings. If the weight is directly under the hands, There will be a very slight counterbalance effect, but not even close to having significant weight above the hands.

For the last time loft jacking isnt magically giving you distance... its the apperance of distance. Anyone who says otherwise Is not using their thinking cap well.

I cant “prove” it but ive experienced it. When i first got into golf, i had one of my grrat grandfathers OLD bladed 6 iron laying around my house after he passed. Started taking it out as a kid, and if you have ever tried to hit a club that old... it will literally make you strike it well or just quite there wasn't really any in between. When my dad purchased my first set, big chunky cavities- they were sooo easy to hit! Im convinced that little blade improved my hand eye coordination. Feel is another aspect. Some of those big forgiving cavities mask strike so well. Ive seen it before where someone is constantly hitting it out in the toe but couldnt really tell. They are leaving yards and performance on the table. edit: i will add this concept is used in other sports as well, unsure of the name..the cuban and dominican baseball baseball players hitting small rocks with a stick to fine tune hand eye coordination

It is certainly possible to be a lo capper and not be a good ball striker. Ive see rounds with 4 greens in regulation and the score was still like even par. So perhaps there are some low cappers who may benefit from a more forgiving iron. On the flipside, they may be doing themselves a disservice, By not playing something more demanding which can lead to better striking. Maybe they wont ever possess the talent to do that, who knows for sure. Does everyone want more distance- well sure- how you get it is another thing. What the other poster was eluding to was accuracy is priority number 1 when it comes to irons. The equipment that produces faster ball speeds and lower spin rates will almost always be less consistent to any decent ball striker.

There is one way to do that and thats bagging a full set of hi cor thin faced hot irons. Lofts are simply not giving you anything extra. If thats what you feel you need go ahead, but mid to low cappers actually get worse with these type clubs and MGS has data to prove it.

I think the name counterbalanced is being used for two different things. Technically “counterbalancing” is a club that has its weight moved more towards each end, and away from the middle. Stroke labs certainly have this. Then there are the type with the longer shafts and weight above the hands. This was designed to stabilize the head much like a belly putter used to. In my opinion, putters like the stroke lab, while Technically are counter balanced, they don't really do that.

Yea the weight above the hands is what gives a true counterbalanced feel. I still game a betti ss#3 cb at 38 inches. One reason i think they have disappeared is its a little harder to have good distance control on longer putts.

Yea thats two seperate things- moi and forgiveness doesnt have to be married to strong lofts

Is perception of distance important?

Well thats a shame!

I started playint around the same time as you... you should pick up a titleist dci starship 3 wood.... one of my first “name brand” clubs. The sound that thing made was incredible!