Chizzle

The only thing that concerns me if this is the way OEMS are going forward, it may get to a point where I wont have a choice to use clubs that have stronger lofts. I will either have to choose to use old clubs with old tech or use newer clubs with the tech and stronger lofts. Tony Covey was asked on No Putts Given how low a 4 iron can go and he said "0°" which is clearly sarcastic and over exaggerated, or is it? I can see this trend continuing because companies need to win launch monitor battles to sell clubs. A lot of golfers, including myself at times, get lost in specific metrics and its smart for OEMs to target those metrics. Thankfully they also created the tech to correspond with the lofts. Just want to thank everyone who shared their thoughts and @revkev thanks for understanding the noobs.

@RickyBobby_PR i am fairly new to the forums and before I created this question, I did a quick search and didnt find a topic about it. I then realized I didnt search properly after seeing your comment so I apologize for creating a redundant topic. Once I found the thread in the club making section, I felt a lot of frustration in that thread from your comments and many others that are like minded to you. That frustration is apparent here as well. I just want to touch on a couple things. I dont play them unless I have to. I dont think its marketing because I used my friends ping g400 irons when my clubs were being regripped. I had a ~192 yrd par 3 to which I used a 7 iron and made it safely on the green so I know they work. I figured it out because I looked up the loft of that 7 iron and did the math compared to what I hit my 7 iron. This whole process may already seperate me from the general average golfer. Like I said in the beginning, I think there is a market as in a consumer population for these types of clubs. I just wanted to know how people felt about it since I couldn't find that thread initially. I'm sorry if this whole thread rubbed you in the wrong way. Not my intention.

Just wanted to see how people feel about how OEMS are moving towards stronger lofted irons. I understand there is a market for such equipment whether it be for reasons such as age, strength, or injury to be competitive but I am not a fan of it. In general i think it promotes for lack of a word, laziness. I feel like it shifts the focus away from putting in the work on your fitness and swing to just buying an answer. Just my opinion. What do you think?

I didnt count it. That happened to me definitely once and potentially twice when the cups were raised 2 inches. I've never had a hole in one so for my first, and any other for that matter, I want the satisfaction of pulling thr ball out of the cup.

https://youtu.be/a9EkzYWgGkE TXG just put this video out and it may answer some questions. If I had to guess without any metric numbers or video of your swing in slow motion, it would not surprise me if you are releasing or flipping a little early which will lead to power loss. Even if you have a low spin shaft, if you release early, you will get more spin on the ball. It's probably the most common issue people have concerning delivery IMO. Record your swing from the front and see what your hands/wrists are doing before impact.

As long as its mowed and manicured, it doesnt matter to me. Direction of the grass will effect how the ball rolls. I hope no course has checkerboard greens because that will cause the ball to snake around.

Totally agree with @jddaigneault. A lot of your power loss is because you release it way early and flip. It looks like you're losing connection with your right elbow on the down swing and it looks like you lock your right leg out near the top which forces you to unlock your knee before the down swing. Not sure if that is a trigger for you down swing but I think it's tough to get a good sequence with that. The driver head/shaft possibly could be fighting your swing but it's more mechanical than anything IMO. I would highly recommend getting a lesson. In the mean time, if you're looking for some info online, I would check out top speed golf on youtube. @zrumble good chance another reason for the release is his body thinks he cant get a positive angle of attack because of the lack of that back tilted spine angle. It looks like he has that tilt after contact but his shoulder line at set-up is straight. Lastly, I see you have spineless shoes on. There is test done that in spiked vs spikeless shoes, you lose distance with spikeless shoes.

Knowing your distances for not just your driver but all your clubs is important. After that, I would say comfort. What is a comfortable distance to challenge you but not want to make you quick golf because you're pressing the whole round.

Green conditions are tops but just recently realized that the tee box is important to me. I can understand the divots but what I cant stand is when there isn't a flat or even semi flat surface. Having the greens be like turtle shells is tough enough but to also have multiple tee boxes with a slope or slightly turtle shelled tee boxes turn me off from a course.

What's that saying "jack of all trades is a master of none"? Not to say you cant master both but they do require different putting strokes. I dont think it's good to compare pros to amateurs but I think it's good to look at some of the concepts pros work with. For example, I havent seen pros carry two putters in their bag because I dont think they can choose which club to remove. I'm assuming itll most likely be a wedge but dont think that's a good idea. Losing a club to have two putters means you have to be able to make up for that club plus learn to use two different putter styles. I guess if you're a driver ->8-pw -> putter, then you wont need that 52° or 60°. Honestly, if you score better with a mallet from 10 ft and in, it sounds like you should use the mallet putter and get used to distance putting. For the most part you're trying to get the ball close to the hole for a two putt when putting from distance. The loss of a club for two putters seems like a steeper price to pay than time spent practicing long putts.

I love the feel of a pure shot. I love chipping it in. I love hitting a shot exactly how I imagine. In the outside world I feel like we are very closed off to strangers I love that this sport makes you want to help a complete stranger even though they may not want it. I love the s*** talking. Love the scenery.

When you say used, how old are you thinking? Within 5 years? 10 years? I think you should definitely go to Roger Dunn to check out the clubs and hit them but dont make an impulse buy. Things to look for: cavity back, probably a wide sole, and tech for where the the center of gravity. I would take a notepad to rodger dunn and look for what is in your price range, ask questions, test the clubs, and then go home and look up those clubs for the details and reviews. If its within 5 years, My Golf Spy is probably a good place qfor research. Once what you hear, what you researched, and what it felt like to test the clubs align, then I would make a purchase. As far as OEMs, I think Ping is a good place to go.

Doesnt look like a lot of space from fringe to pin. I'd probably us my 60 and try to land it on the green before the pin. I would find it hard to navigate the hill, curves, and minimal real estate between fringe and pin.With that being said, this is the worst part of my game but that's what I would try to do.

I guess to put it simply, you/we are not robots. You see variance on the tour within the 4 days they play. At your point in the game I can see little things like better bounces or kicks that put you in a more favorable position ever so closer to the hole, giving you much better opportunities for birdies or eagles. It could be the difference of front edge, middle, or tucked away pin locations making it more or less difficult. It is probably the mental aspect (strategy, management, control of emotions ect) that can also create variance. Lol my variance is +/- 10 (low 80s to low 90s) and I as of now, I havent done anything to change it. Going to get some lessons soon though.

Unfortunately I think something that has to be factored into the equation is that it doesnt make sense for OEM to make multiple sku's for a single product. I think I heard there are at least 24 million golfers give or take? That's creating competition for yourself in a super competitive market where not too many people purchase clubs every year. They make exceptions to tour players that are under contract. As far as a ball goes, take titleist for example. i dont think we are good enough to 1)feel the difference between a AVX,a ball in between AVX and proV1, ProV1, a ball inbetween ProV1 and ProV1x, and proV1x 2) our swing, strike, and overall game isn't consistent enough to know the difference or see gains. Quick question. If there were 2 balls only marked with number #1 and #2, one being a proV1 and the other being a prov1x, on a 60 yard shot, how many amateur golfers would be able to tell the difference? I'm pretty sure I wont. The guys on TV hit soo many more balls than we do. Although I understand the frustration or angst, it's a none issue to me. It will be an issue if I'm playing for millions of dollars, but then again if I were, I'd probably get a chance to use special tour equipment.

I would say srixonq-star tour and up or bridgestone tour b line. Affordable (there are usually deals on these balls), good performers, and good quality as far as construction and tolerance. (MSG ball lab and find it, cut it found).

From what I can remember, the biggest difference i heard between pros and amateurs back in the late 90s and 2000's was the shaft pros were using. They were using prototype this and prototype that, different weighted shafts, shafts with different flex points, etc. I dont remember there being that many shaft options outside of stock shafts back then. Those fitting options are more available to consumers but companies still have special product lines or items just for pros. That's probably simply because we are either not good enough to need them, or to be able to use them as intended, or even be able to feel or notice the difference. Look no further than golf balls to know companies have different products for pros. I dont have an issue with companies having different specs for tour pros because incrementally the equipment has gotten better over time for amateurs and it doesnt make sense for them to cater to the individual. They cater to blocks of consumers. I think that's why you see the "tour" model, a more forgiving model, and a draw bias model for drivers for drivers as an example. Lastly with the fitting world coming to amatuers, if properly fitted, aren't we getting what the pros are getting in essence? Something that is specific to each individual golfer? Having clubs bent to a certain degree, lie angle adjustments, this shaft, and that shaft. The paradigm shift from "playing" what the pros play to playing what's best for you is huge.

I'm going to interpret mental game as mental toughness in this thread. Not sure when I decided to try to change but it's been a slow work in progress. I think it's natural to show emotion, happy or angry/upset, because to me it means you care about golf or your game. Mental toughness for me is how fast can I get back to level and focus on what I need to do to finish a bad hole or round. Easier said than done right. I think that is one thing I feel about Tiger. He can stop himself in the middle of his violent down swing because a camera clicked early or a phone went off. Yes he is annoyed or upset but he regroups and hits a great shot. How many of us would still be thinking about that distraction and not be focusing on the task at hand? I used to beat myself up for poor execution (and I still do) but now I try to take notes of it and reflect on it later when I'm home with a drink.

Only time I can remember getting hitters on the tee box was off #1 at pebble for the same reason that @Wondergiulio said. I think having a routine helps. I try to do the same thing for every shot: practice swing, stand behind ball to get my target and line, set my club face to target line with feet together, split feet, take a peek up at target, say my 1 swing thought, breath, and swing. I think finding your own routine will help get you into your world and hopefully it will register in your brain that you are about to hit a golf shot.

@cnosil I think you are correct in saying this is getting into course management or it is about course management. Perhaps using the word important wasnt the correct word but I couldn't think of any other word to use. Knowing that sometimes my driver and chipping are the weakest part of my game, I rely on the second shot to set me up for a chance to score. If I hit a good driver shot, there have been times that I ruin it because of poor execution. To answer your question of not using the driver, it is important but a lot of times I'm aiming to get to the wide part of the green especially on tough pin locations. Like I said before, I agree with everyone thinking that every shot is important. Perhaps I should have worded it as in my gameplan for the par 3 holes, the first putt (second shot) which is typically anywhere from 15-50ft away is highlighted and I try to get it inside of 3-5ft for par. Perhaps i should have titled this thread something to do with gameplan instead of important shot. @DaveP043 you are right and I dont spend enough time practicing in general really. This is 100% an excuse but my home course's (public) driving range isn't set up well for driver practice. It's off mats and they have the lesson range on the other end facing us. @B.Boston I'm just happy someone understood/ been there (not that are the only ones)

It is difficult to expect youtube reviewers to do what MGS does as far as reviews. They have many testers taking a upwards of 10000 shots (for clubs). They touch on this on No Putts Given in episode 6 or 7 I think. Worth a peak. Also, I agree with @LeftyRM7. I think feel is important. I know MGS believe feel is not as important compared to performance but feel is important for me. With that being said MGS's harry nodwell and sam robinson, whom both are praised by owner adam beach as being really good golfers, both talk about feel when speaking about clubs in the podcast. I think feel and performance is why I play mizuno irons. Lastly, if you do believe in MGS which I think you do, it's more about fitting than the review. MGS's most wanted or winners of any other category could be completely wrong for you personally. At the very least, I think youtube reviewers can create interest in clubs. MGS reviews may not be too far off from this even though they are more thorough. But the fitting is where your data and your swing come to life.

I agree with everyone that say the current shot or every shot is important but to me, and please dont take this the wrong way, that's like saying every club in the bag or every hole is important. There isn't a shot that you can "throw away" and for that matter nobody tries to hit a bad shot. I feel like there are a lot of players that put a huge emphasis on "I need to hit a good tee shot to score well on this hole". Not to say the tee shot isn't important as all shots are important but I put that emphasis on the second shot with a club I have more control, confidence, and have more consistent shots with. That may be because my driver is the most inconsistent shot which may have led to think this way. Thanks for all your comments!

I think the second shot of the hole is the most important shot no matter the par. It can waste a gooddrive and save the hole after a bad drive. On par 5s it can get you on the green if its reachable. On par 3s it can either be your birdie putt or a putt or chip that gets you the par. Just wondering if anyone else has given this any thought.

I do enjoy executive courses but if the course has 18 holes to, I much prefer that. It's also from a green fee perspective where it's not that much cheaper to play less holes.

I wasnt very familiar with MGS. What got me here is No Putts Given. I started checking out what the site has to offer and found the forums. Now I'm waiting to find out what comes out of ball lab. Watching No PUTTS Given and kind of getting to know the people that work on this site adds more depth to the content for me.