TBS

Not to mention more travel... INTERNATIONAL TRAVEL! I can't wait to see this play out. Do you think any LIV guys will break their contract?

Rough doesn't help the distance issue. It only punishes shorter hitters and rewards bombers. Easier to hit out of rough with a wedge than a 6 iron. I think the lack of wind Sat/Sun hurt the course more than setup.

If Cam comes out and joins LIV, I think it could a huge hit to his reputation. When in August 2021 he's quoted answering a question about what he would do if he won the $15 mil FedEx Cup prize: When asked to reflect on the payday in the offing next week, the laid-back Smith almost seemed unable to get his head around the huge purse. “I’m pretty set, to be honest,” Smith said on Tuesday at Caves Valley. “I’m good with what I’ve got. I don’t know what I do [with the money], to be honest. Maybe some more fishing equipment.” https://www.jacksonville.com/story/sports/golf/2021/08/25/cameron-smith-stumped-when-asked-what-he-would-do-fedex-cup-riches/8233592002/ Maybe he just wants to grow the game...

I'm unsure what point you are actually trying to make to contribute to this thread.

Pretty controlled but strong responses regarding LIV from golf leaders at The Open this week. All of the comments pushed back strongly against LIV as being bad for golf. No comments about Saudi money. All comments were reinforcing the meritocracy that the PGA tour is. To see the R&A say that is a pretty good signal that OWGR points will be difficult to get for LIV events.

I agree what some of the others said that good courses have a flow to it that have difficult holes when the pressure is high. TPC Sawgrass, Augusta, Ocean Course, Southern Hills all come to mind. I don't think you're saying a major should have a shotgun start, though. I would be totally fine if a non-major or non-elevated event did shotgun start for Thrs/Fri then regular starts for the weekend. Most people who have a thrs/fri ticket are probably local and often entertaining for business. They come after lunch anyways. Shotgun starts are efficient but when I've watched LIV I found that although I was watching more golf shots (albeit no commercials) I was also missing a lot of shots. It seems it would be even easier to drop players from coverage and miss out on the drama of the day.

I agree but that has to be the biggest challenge facing LIV. PGA tour ban lawsuits (if filed by LIV players) plus the OWGR application and review will hold LIV back for the next 2 seasons if not longer. Solidifying LIV as an exhibition tour.

Not sure if you were able to see this, but what was it like to watch someone finish on hole other than the 18th?

Tiger was number 14 in the world 2 years ago; today he is 943 in the world because of not playing much (and not getting many OWGR points). In the events he's played in the 2 year time period he's made a bunch of cuts too. Gooch - see ya! We may not see him in any major in future years unless he local (LOCAL!) qualifies for US Open or grinds in his off weeks on the Asian tour, which seems like a blast!

LIV won't die but it will never takeover professional golf because of this. NLU went way in depth with OWGR points. The TLDR from them is that OWGR has previously asked tours to meet their standards in the past and didn't award points until changes were met. Application review time is not defined. If it takes 12-18 months to review, essentially all of the LIV guys will be out of majors unless they won one. Even then, they get 10 years to lifetime exemption for that one major but only 5 years for the others. That time is close to running out for most of the LIV guys. Even if the other tours drop their ban, these guys will still have to play a full schedule to get the points they need so there goes the reasoning for shortened schedule. If OWGR points are given to LIV, I think you will see LIV players level of play drop dramatically. Why grind on the final day if you're not going to win. Shoot an 80 like Pat Perez and celebrate. Then get absolutely wiped in the majors or elevated events.

That sounds right. More people are willing to pick up a hybrid off the shelf at a big box store than a utility iron.

With many of the other OEMs producing quality utility irons every 2-3 years, what do you think is next for Callaway? Titleist has a winner with the U510. Taylormade with the P790 and now the stealth UDI. Srixon has a good one and so does Ping. Callaway hasn't done much with the hollow body irons except maybe the Rogue ST Pro. Their current Utility iron is the X Forged UT which gets good reviews but not very forgiving.

Yeah, it looks to be closer to 36. Mon-9 Tues - 9 and Pro/Am 18 https://www.golfdigest.com/story/whats-a-tournament-week-really-like-for-a-pga-tour-pro-billy-horschel

I feel ya. Let's commit to calling out recurring posts. This is a fun topic to talk about but not when its the same arguments for/against constantly. Only thing to add to @Middler's list is - LIV event coverage - Player statements on either side

This type of argument has been discussed at length earlier in the thread. Let's try to keep comments new/fresh and differing perspectives.

https://www.golfwrx.com/680317/inside-scoop-heres-how-the-liv-golf-tour-will-handle-on-site-equipment-needs-for-players-at-each-u-s-event/ Here's the link if anyone is curious. I wonder how the golfers feel about it when they are used to multiple equipment trucks. They may not care tbh.

Legit question - are there equipment trucks from the major OEMs there? I know for some of the smaller tourneys and LPGA they have a few general equipment guys but not necessarily OEM specific. Interesting angle as Phil is tinkerer, P Reed seems like someone who would want to try out multiple custom grinds etc.

JT had a great interview with Soly on the NLU podcast. The biggest takeaway is that this split will become personal. If LIV guys sue the PGA tour, they are suing all of the members. That’s personal. I have much more respect for the guys who have resigned their membership. Also check out Jimmy Dunne’s interview in SI from earlier this month. https://www.si.com/golf/.amp/news/one-of-golfs-most-connected-amateurs-has-much-to-say-on-liv-and-none-of-it-positive

Good commentary - this is why it feels like Pat's comments simply lacked perspective. He framed it that he only has 2 options: Join LIV or continue to play 30+ events a year. When we all know there are a number of other options for him to live the lifestyle he wants (needs?).

I listened to that interview too. I definitely feel for him on some level but it lacked perspective. Pat is playing a professional sport, by choice... There are plenty of other careers he could choose or pivot to once he realized he was going to have to fight every year to keep status. Nobody is making him miss his child's birth. He chose this career and bet on himself. Making millions of dollars should not be easy. I respect his honesty and for giving one of the strongest reasons to join LIV, but in my eyes, he is still outside of the top 100 players and is fun to watch on thrs/fridays bc he will probably miss the cut on a regular tour event. (This statement is false. I stand corrected he actually makes a decent amount of cuts and has played pretty well since 2017.) Now Brooks in the press conference is total BS. Saying he hates the travel and grind when he only played like 16(?) events last year and LIV is going to make him play 14(?) next year. Dude, just say its for the money because you like money and 95% of people will stop caring.

This is a great point but I think golf might be unique where to be a top PGA tour player, you have to be really good for a LONG time. Every once in awhile you get generational talent but for the most part it takes mastering the mental game to be good. In my opinion, this is why Monday Qs, KFT, and mini tours do an excellent job at putting the best people on tour. With all of its flaws, the PGA tour is the best in pro sports at rewarding players simple on top performance. Which is one of the better arguments against LIV.

It will be similar results as the US Open. Only a couple make the cut, the rest flounder. Brooks has the best chance. I don't think Tiger will say anything too groundbreaking about LIV as to not take away from the R&A and the Open but I think that he eventually will. Tiger, JT, Spieth, and Rory are the only weapons the PGA tour has and I believe this group will make a strategic move to counter LIV. Just not until after the Open and maybe even after the Tour Championship at the end of August.

That’s what Andy O thought. Now he is the first person dropped lol. PGA tour career over. Only way to fight back is to do Asian tour events.

Nah - Phil is getting off easy. Not too long ago, the biggest name in golf had to do this for an non-golf, off course issue -

A truly thankless job