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Posts posted by release

  1. 21 minutes ago, ZenGolfer said:

    dudes who are trying to relive their college days

    I also have nothing against others doing their things.  The forgotten of the rule about live your live and let the others live their live gets blurred when we're in a crowded space.  

    As Those idiots damaging their eardrum playing music in traffic.  I'll say go for it but "shut your windows " because the guys next to you don't want to heard the earth shuttering noise in a blistering hot day. 

    I'm with those who wants to hear the birds chirping, the wind brushed the tree tops, and once in awhile the crisp snap of a well struck golf shot.   I don't want to be forced to listen to some inconsiderate idiot playing loud music or yakking away on their mobile phone. 

    Quite a few of our local private golf clubs forebit the use of mobile device on property unless in the club house.  First thing they'll tell you is to "turn off" your cellphone at the entry gate, not even allowed to be on vibrate notice.  Forewarned that one would be escorted off the premises  should anyone report the use of a mobile communication device.  Sorry, even if you're a Medical Doctor on call, no can do.  

    I had reported the loud rowdy behavior on the golf courses to the club house and they'll send the course marshal down to observe and give warning if necessary, so a few idiots will not ruin the others enjoyment on the golf course.  What's the big deal of wearing a Bluetooth device to enjoy your tune ?  Although I had seen warnings been issued to golfers several times but never seen anyone actually got thrown off the public golf courses.  People here do not know how to live with the others in a shared tighter space.  What happened to the etiquette of golf we were taught, when we started to play this game ?   I guess the launch monitor and golf instructors do not teach golf etiquette. 

    Someone told me other countries ( Norway, Japan, maybe S. Korea) will require a short class in golf etiquette before a new golfer could step on the golf course, besides producing a card of "proficiency" in the game , the other prove of a card of attending the basic etiquette is also required.    I was surprise to be asked to produce a USGA index card or a GHIN number to a private golf club overseas before I could step out to the first tee box with my host.

  2. 3 hours ago, cnosil said:

    Technology has become part of golf and it is another tool in the golfers belt.  You can choose to use the tools or you can choose to not use the tools.   An open fire cooks just as well as an oven, but the oven makes it a little easier.

    Of course.  Totally agree.

    Technology can cut down the chase and start the process off much much faster.  But, as you said, it is a tool !

    How one uses a tool will produce very different outcome.

    All the things we do is for what ?  The very end is to implementing the tech and numbers and this and that to the play on the golf course.  Technology, today, is not perfect for his measurement.

    It provided superior static measurements.  Bar none.  It can't adjust to the human factors, not just yet.

    Remember the beginning of the "personal computer " ?   I was urged to use one because it will organize everything for me and make things much simpler.  However, before the apple proto type of windows and mouse, it was really unfriendly for the users.  I looked at the all the schooling of how to use a PC, gave up as it'll take up too much time to set up and get it going.  Faster using the old method than the clumsy way of command /input.   I use a personal device every day now just like most of us.

    I'm not against the advancement of technology

    • Like 1
  3. 1 hour ago, cnosil said:

    Sounding a bit cranky today. 🤣

    Not really "cranky".  Just not as patient as I used to be.  Too many stuff going on and way too many on the horizon.  Maybe being ignorant and not knowing what's going on will be a blessing .

    Or like some of my friends, ignoring the facts and bury their heads in the sand, hoping everything will be fine.  

    • Like 1
  4. 1 hour ago, cnosil said:

    Gapping and playing should be done looking at carry distance too much inconsistency in rollout.  In you example they hit their 5 irons 2 completely different distances.   I carry distances can be done on the course but it is much harder than using technology assistance 

    Actually one player has a low trajectory ( he is 5'3" ) hits everything with a flat swing plane. his 5 iron can carry 145-150 and runs out to 165-170 total.  The other golfer is average sized and hits everything with a high trajectory, his 5 iron will probably move 5 yards if less to total 170-175.  

    How does a tech device measure and quantify these two ?

    Figured in elevated target or the opposite ?  Condition of the fairway ....... ?  No device can account for the playing condition.  

    Like I said, the technology is a great "starting point", golfers need to acquire and assess their own game after the initial start.

    If any golfer depending on the technology to guide them through this game, then, good luck, not that it won't work for everyone.  For those believing the technology is the total answer. perhaps.  It should work in their minds , for awhile anyway.

    There is, no boxed solution from technology, alone.  This game is played with golfer's physical ability and mental readiness.

  5. On the real golf course, with familiar terrain.  

    All the tech gadgets will assist in helping to shorten the journey, but the end purpose stays the same.  Has to be applied where the results will be implemented.  It is not just one and only, it'll be the best to utilize both the tech method to quantify and narrow the search , with the implication into where the application will happen.  The numbers from the spreadsheet is a great tool, only if we could include the application, which nothing on the market can do at this moment.

    I'd use whatever device you prefer to get the initial "gap" from each iron under the assumed condition to get the base for starting.  Refine it on the golf course through playing.  One set of numbers will have different meaning to different golfers.  With two golfers having the same total distance from their 5 irons, but one achieve it with 93% carrying distance and one achieved it with 70% carrying distance... you'd bet it'll make a more significant difference on the golf course.

    Unfortunately, there is no constant in this game.  One might carry his 5 iron 170 today with a sharp descending angle, tomorrow the numbers might be a little different.  Hence why we have the stroke tournament running 4 days.


  6. 23 minutes ago, ZenGolfer said:

    youd better be prepared to get grouped up with others and expect the course to be slow. 

    The phenomenon probably caused by too many new golfers on the golf course who should have been to the par-3 or an executive course, before they could advance the golf ball 150+ yards.  They have no business on the regular golf courses.  Think of a car doing way below the posted speed lint on a single lane one way street ?  One of the local track ( 6400 yards stretched ) took me 6+ hours for the 18.  

    Also I had noticed, more and more had been conducting their business on the golf course by connecting their communication to the smart phone.  I mean, give us a break ?  If you can't leave your job or you're on an "expended break" from your work position....do all of us a favor, stay where you should have been, right ?   I had the urge to tell those to pick up their golf balls because I was tired of waiting for them to get off their phone stand and waiting for them to paly their next shot ( multiple times for each nine ).  One other pet peeve was, the speaker , my goodness.  I love music, but not on the golf course.  Ever had some car next to you at the stop light cranked up their bass blaster, with their windows "down" ?    Okay, not quite like that, but annoying regardless.  Have the courtesy of using a head phone/ear piece if one must have their music.  These kids( and/or adults ) with "sound bars", riding golf carts, jamming away, which could be heard from the next fairways.  How did they grow-up ?  Without guidance , maybe ?  

    Lots of strange things happened on the golf courses because the activities had been taken over by many of the none-regular,  Did the golf course management cares ?  They're busy racking in the revenue to patch up the holes left from last year. I'd assume to limit my own golf activity until things are back to a little bit normal.

    The private golf and country clubs and many of the resort type of golf courses are experiencing the opposite .  I guess, the surge of the opportunity golfers only attacks the local municipal golf courses. 

    • Haha 1
  7. 21 hours ago, sixcat said:

    I've noticed a little less congestion at my home club the past few weeks, especially on the weekends. I suspect, this is due to youth sports opening back up full throttle. Harder to get to the golf course with little Johnny playing little league.

    More are back to their work in their office or at their work site instead of the "remote office".  I know one thing; a lot more traffic back on the roadways.  Worse than before since some had forgotten how to share the roads.

    Think the remote work might be more fitted to some industry than the next.  Even with the positions mainly performed in front of the terminal and via internet.  Accountability is a huge question.  I had witness or second hand info on all fields which had been "slacking off " during the home base working periods.  How efficient can the works be if they take 40 minutes to walk their dog or take a 2 hour launch break, watch a movie while "working" ......  This is not unique to one industry.

    Anyways, when these "new golfers" go back to their regular routine, to work and their favorite off time activities, dinning out, biking, hiking, the golf courses should get back to it's normal level of volume.

    It'll be interesting to see the trending in the next 18 months, for sure.

  8. Don't know your area.  In my region, there seems to be more available tee times and bargains in the last week than what we had been experiencing this year.

    Our local leaders determined that we could open the economy, cruise lines are open ( with restrictions , which is not "water tight" so many cases of infection had been reported from the cruise line operation ).  So is other Civic activities.  like opening the "cooling center " during the heat wave of pass days.  I know the record heat wave was a health concern. so is gathering people in an enclosed environment with recirculating air.  Never had triple digit weather since I had been here .  In more than 4 decades, I remember maybe a handful of days over 90 each year.

    For the younger-me; it's a go for golf in the 90's.  Maybe it's not comfortable temperature by walking the golf course but, it was doable for a young golfer.  But than again, I was a golf nut, golf in rain, snow, frost and blistering heat.

    The sign of a sudden drop of interest in the local muni courses told me one possible cause.  The ones crowding the local mini golf courses were mostly "new" golfers or the usual weekend warriors.  They'll tone down when the regular activities opened up or when the whether is not "ideal" for their standard. 

    An golf addict, will take any opportunity to get on the golf course with their schedule.  I can't imagine anyone could enjoy themselves on the golf course without the effort of putting into the game to be better.

    All it takes, would be just a few good shots in a round of golf to bring them back, right ?  I'm not sure about these trend chasers.

  9. 6 hours ago, cnosil said:

    Some people just don’t want to be fit because it will mess with their mindset too much; you sound like that kind of person.  You and I just see things differently related to the putting stroke and fitting based on our experiences.  

    I have no issue with a different point of view, especially with golf since I'm not making a living on this subject.  Love this game since it is, a "show it to me" and not just drawing vector lines on the frames of video.  If someone tells me that they air their 3 wood 230 yards, fine, show it to me. 

    You probably already know that there is constant disagreement between the ranked teaching professionals of how the process of relating the knowledge of golf to the students.  There is no -one and only correct way of doing things.  When dealing with refining the better players' skill of swing clubs or putter.  More and more instructors will not allow one student to participate in the other's session.  And if you're not in a group lesson and the instructor basically recital the same lesson from player to player, run and hold tight to your wallet. 

    For a very simple reason, they are not beginners who is picking up the basic.  No group lessons there.  What one player needs might be very different than the next and the lesson might be just a reminder of what they already knew.

    Why worry about "messing up the mind set" ? if the mind set is obviously not working or not reaching the potential ?  Even after explaining the proven method to the mass, some will never "get it".  And for the most part, they really don't need to know at their current level of the game.  Too much medicine might kill a patient !  I would not put a Formula One vehicle in the hands of a street racer.

    The best lesson I personally had, more than 40 years ago, was mostly all taking.  At the time I was confused and not really happy and believing the instructor was "wasting" my time , not watching me hit balls but talking about the golf swing most of the time.    I realized much later that, it was the best golf lesson I had had.  The definition of fundamental of anything will be quite different from each individual's perspective.  Like peeling onion, some can only go a few layers and then tear-out.  Nothing wrong with it, as long as one could improve and enjoy the game.

    The mentality of wanting to know, everything, right this moment, will not work with this game.  Some of the understanding will have to come from the individual experience.  

    A good golf instructor is not, a magician.  One has to marry the physical ability to the understanding of the basics in this game, then practice to join them together.  So don't expect a fitting of equipment will perform magic to one's golf game.  Don't blame the instructor who did not show you how this game really is by giving lessons in human anatomy and how to apply it to move the club head in a efficient manner while max out one's physical potential.  BTW, no golf instructors I know will warn their students of the consequences of injury and physical debilitation which will come with the dedication to this game.

    I believe we're very close to doing that, maxing out our mortal ability.  Just watch the injury occurred from the Touring Pros getting younger and younger in age, at a more devastating damage.  If one could muscle the 5 iron ( comparing to the old 3 iron ) 220 yards +, then enjoy it, because these days will be gone, soon, before one gets old in age. 

  10. 2 hours ago, cnosil said:

    Quote " I have gone through several fittings and had my stroke measured on Puttlab a few times and as part of most wanted testing evaluate a large variety of putters.   I will start off by saying I have a little different opinion on putter fitting than you seem to have;  I believe the putter can make a difference in putting performance.   I learned a lot about putting from Bruce Rearick who has done extensive research on putting and how putters influence the putting stroke. "  

    Putter can and will make a difference to individual at a given time.  Unfortunately, we, as human do not have a constant performance in anything.  Anyone been playing this game for awhile could honestly tell you that each day is different on the same golf course with the same putter.  Not to sell the human side weak, it's amazing how we could adapt and adjust given the sense of urgency.  If someone try to sell you the idea that we could be fitted one way forever, then you can buy that.  I'm just not interested in debating and beat a dead horse.

    Quote "you seem to fall into the approach that you adapt yourself to the putter.  Basically given a putter you will figure out how to use it effectively which in many cases will require some kind of manipulation to control distance and or start line."  When I was a newbie, perhaps, back then, I had no clue of the art of putting.  I could, figure out how to use a tool, but, some just more reliable than the others on certain days with the playing condition.  

    Quote "your statement about feel and balance seems to indicate that you believe that the putter can make a difference and that a fitting is needed.   This is the approach that is based on the thought that each person has a natural stroke and that we should find a putter that moves properly through the stroke to achieve good distance and start line control.  The benefit of this is that under pressure the person isn’t relying on stroke compensations.   When I test a lot of different putter configurations (hosel, offset, weight, CoG) i find that the performance of each putter can vary considerably.  Some don’t rotate as much so I miss right, others rotate too much so I miss left, and others make it difficult to control tempo so I struggle with distance."

    Of course I believe the right putter ( for the time, present " will make a difference on performance.  So it seems to convinced everyone.  There is no natural putting stroke, IMHO.   Every thing we do in this game is against how we should use our body.  For a non-contact sports, it sure caused a lot of injury,  The more one use one's body to the maximum in this sports, the quicker the injury will result.   There is the correct way of using the tool, and with practice and practice and practice.  So, it'll be a second nature when standing over a putt, automatically mentally adjusting to the texture of the putting surface, the contour and modulation the calculated speed and break.  The vision and the eye-hand coordination dictate the percentage of successful outcome.  Of which the eye- hand coordination could be trained to improve to some degree.    

    Quote "Some players say they are “feel” players but that is something that is foreign to me.  Feel in my mind comes from repeating mechanics to build knowledge.  That knowledge is feel and gives me the ability to repeat the stroke for a condition.  Kind of like throwing a ball;  we build feel on how far a ball will go when we throw it by repeatedly throwing it.   If I give you a ball that is very light or very heavy and you have no experience you try to adapt based on past experiences.  If a person is truly a 100% feel player I should be able to put a ball down on any green give them a distance and they should be able to roll it that far without any practice.   I personally think people confuse feel with experience.   Players also may not want to get their stroke measured and know the mechanics that they use because of how their brain would process that information.  I believe all players fall somewhere between 100% feel and 100%mechanical with few if any being on the extremes." 

    It's agreed between all the famous instructors from day one that the "feel" is the most difficult to transpire to their students.  How does one teach the "feel" of a shot or a putt to someone else who had not experienced it ?  Can one say that one felt the putting line should break and rapidly doing so at the last foot of the 20' lag ?  How does the other "feel" that ?  Feel, is an accumulation of the experience, of which amassed through the past.   If you had been a teacher, of any subject matter, you would understand not every student is created equal.  There is no one formula which suit every student to bring out their best. 

    Quote "you mention the “fundamentals of putting;” curious what you consider to be the fundamentals.   Eyes over the ball? Neutral ball position and path? Shoulder stroke? Square setup?  I ask because if we look at people that are considered to be great putters they all accomplish putting differently with different setups, strokes, and putters ."

    IMHO, the fundamental of this game is to advance the little white ( or colored ) golf ball toward the cup and send it to the bottom of the cup.  To advance the golf ball with the potential of individual's ability involves delivering the club face to the golf ball in an individually efficient way , different in driver to the shorter sticks and most definitely different from a swing club to a putter.  It'll take a long while to explain which most of the experienced golfer already know, just not putting the details together.  Just go pounder upon the differenced between a stroke and a swing.

    Golf ball comes off the putter face dose not need to travel far.  How does one determine the direction and the speed ?  It's really simple, and may take one person just minutes to "get it" and the other person will be a lifetime to figure it out.  Experience of line/speed could be practiced and harnessed.  The vision part which connect your eye sight to your central nervous system then back to the body for execution can not be learned.  It can be enhanced but not changed.

    The heel shafted, center shafted, toe/heel balanced, face balanced, the total static weigh........ not to go into the degree of Toe-Hang.... all has something to do with that little putting stroke we execute.  Do it the right way without fighting the putter with it's designed root will make the putting more repeatable.  That's another story.

    Sorry bud, you asked a question which could not and should not be explained in sentences.  Have to go for now.  

    2 hours ago, cnosil said:



  11. I had never had a putter fitting.  Not trusting being fitted on the flat artificial turf ( just me ).  If the putter fitting is all but determining the length and lie ( how it soles ), all that's left is to find the right balance ( feel ) for rolling the golf ball.  The feel part is what can not be fitted ( not could it be taught ); then, how much fitting charge for the putter ?  Would it be just another way of generating revenue, since the Fitting Craze hit the scene recently ?

    Had gone through most of, if not all of the different style of putter heads, shafts and grips.  The possession of the different style of putters was not because of the result from continuation of the search for the one which works better for me.   It's mainly out of the desire to own, rather than the needs.  Yes, I still have all the putters I acquired, except for a couple which I gifted to friends.

    I would be interested in learning the actual results/experience from a putter fitting, shared by the members here.  Unless there was something ill fitted in the first place, like the the misunderstanding of the fundamentals of putting, or basic misfit from length/lie and feel/ balance.  All that matter to me was just how the ball rolls and the perceived putting line vs. actual targeted line.  



  12. 23 hours ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

    Who knows where technology will take us but look at what it already has given us

    I agree,  But, the other half of the formula had already reached the apex.  Look at the golfers on the professional circuit !  They are not only young, also tall and strong.  Most of them could have participated in other sports, easily.  

    Mainly because of the potential financial reward in this sport.  I seriously doubt that Bobby Jones would remain an amateur has the professionals back in the days had the respect the money and the glory we 're having today.  Remember, back then the price money of winning a tournament barely covered the entry and the expenses to keep the winners going .  Hardly any endorsement offered beside to the top ranked golfers.

    Even in the 60's through the early 80's, there were not much price money offered for the winner of the "Open".  Ben Hogan, Sam Snead even later with Lee Trevino, not much left after paying off the expenses.

    I looked up the average driving distance from the PGA Tournament archives.  Remember something like just over 250 yards in the driving category.  Players could launch their 3/4 woods longer than that today.  Even with their 4 iron (= 2 iron back then ) given the right condition.

    Technology had come a long way, but the human capacity is reaching near the Apex.  Don't believe the additional technology could make an impact to the game as in the past 15 years.  I think we're pretty safe. 

  13. On 6/26/2021 at 5:18 PM, MaxEntropy said:

    I would argue there is precious little chance of one of us being truly optimized in the typical fitting.

    How can we  "optimize " the grossly imperfection ?  Wonder why some of the teaching professional only apply the band aide fix ?  On that, there are/were some interesting golf swings which survived the test of PGA tour.

    On second thought, I have personally witness some hopeless cases for improvement.  But, most of them are enjoying the game.  So why not ?  Isn't it the goal to get out there and have a good time ?     I remember reading this somewhere in the past - Quote " golf is like sex, one does not have to be good at it to enjoy".  Yes, the level of enjoyment will be quite different, however, I'm just thankful that we could enjoy this game here, like no other place in the world.  Even if the cost of participation had gone up. 

    • Like 1
  14. 43 minutes ago, Middler said:

    player has to consistently deliver the head on the right path

    Bullseye.  Before all the technology, we did okay.  Besides the technology with the drivers and the golf balls, can't say I have benefitted by the advancement of the new tech.  It seems to me that the golfers were confuse about the cause and the effect.

    I love the adjustable hosel simply because I don't have to go through pulling shaft and wait for the epoxy to cure over night.  Often, I'd take a couple of driver heads and a bunch of shafts with adapter to the driving range and have a great time.

    I did, think of the effect of the construction of the adjustable hosel .  But the benefit of able to exchange shafts in seconds is a joy for a golf club tinkerer.  I seldom if ever change the setting on the adjustable hosel for loft or angle. 

    So sadly, with all the marbles out there, I had only picked up a few for my golf game.  I do, keep an eye on the new golf shafts.  Too bad the newer ones are priced out of a hobbyist's comfort zone.  

    I know a few senior who tend to forget things.  They go to the driving range a few times a week and play a few rounds during the week also.  But somehow, they "forget" the basics.  I would se some minor issue like the grip or the alignment, corrected the issue and they had a good time on the driving range, but in a few weeks they'd be back to the same issue and starting to look for a new driver, again.  Keeps them busy and keeps the OEM in business , anyway.

    I'm also not quit certain the golfers in general will benefit from all the information available to us.

    Too much information will confuse some of us , for sure.

  15. 1 hour ago, revkev said:

    You raise some interesting questions. It appears that we may be of a very similar vintage.


    IMO there is an ebb and flow to things. Golf is certainly at a high tide and it is likely that a number of people who tried it will stick.  Courses here are packed even as we’ve entered our off season. So I think the game is in a good place.


    I don’t know that the average player cares much about technological advances. He buys a set off the shelf, puts it in his trunk and uses it for his game with the guys on Saturday morning. 

    Guys and gals who do it for a living recognize that golf is more than numbers. They use the numbers as a tool. 210, up hill, into a 15 mph at sea level, playing 240, 3 iron, bag, 25 footer for eagle. I was standing next to a young mini tour player who did it that fast not too long ago. 

    In the old days we used lead tape to help our ball flight, now we have tungsten inserts and more accurate ways to measure the results but it’s still the same thing.


    As I think through all of this I believe that teachers made the game seem much more complicated when I was a kid than they do today. So perhaps the shift really is from swing thoughts to equipment?


    Interesting topic, thanks. 

    Personally, I really appreciate the information available online these days, instead of researching the old way.  I was never efficient using the library catalog system anyway.

    The point was, many of the new golfers really thought getting fit with the equipment and take a lesson or even a series of lessons, that's will put them on the road to be a golfer like they see on the weekend tournament broadcasting ( or should I say streaming ).

    This is not a game that can be bought.  By getting the newest equipment which promises extra distance /control.   By taking lessons from the top rated instructors ( I took lessons when I first started the game so, there you go ).  A big part of the charm of this game is the endless chase after the perfection.  Somedays one would think one had gotten close or had seen the light at the tunnel.  But, the golf gods will put one right back to where one belongs the next day.

    Tinkering with the equipment and grinding for the fewer strokes on the score card, are the essence of this game.    I just don't believe the "new" golfers who had jumped into this game because it was/is the only outdoor game available during the pandemic.  Pretty sure many of these will go back to their normal activities when things are back to normal.  More than half the golfers I knew had quit the game because of either the health issue ( from aging or golfing or both ) or financial reasons.

    One guy told me some years ago, that each time he paid for the green fees he's though about the rib eye roast he could have had instead.  On the flip side, I also know folks who forgo everything else in life, so they could play this game.  Even with upper middle class status without children, the couple had to stay in a less neighborhood than they could have, and save their budget so they could travel to golf destinations instead of dinning out often and the usual things people do when they retired.  It's a decision they had made of how to live their live.

    Most of these pandemic golfers will not be golfing in a few years.  Like many had jumped into my profession thinking it's a piece of cake to get certified and money will be rolling into their bank account.  90% of them wouldn't be around in my industry within 3 years.  The golf industry had painted the picture of a dream for those watching the golf channel and network tournament coverage.  The fact is, the game is still one of the best game, ever, even trapped the Kings and the Queens and the rich and famous.  But the 300 yard drive and the dance and back spin on the approach shots are not in every golfer's book.    

    One major issue which comes with this game is, injury.  I was a pretty healthy person all of my life.  Came down with quit a few issues brought on after decades of dedicated interest in this game.  No question about whether this game is a sport or not.

    Your point of the givers of instruction.  Most are dedicated professionals but some are those who will be looking forward to see the continuation of the lessons to fix the issues they did not fix in the first place.  I agree with you, as the golf lessons in the past seemed to be much simpler than todays video analyzed, vector drawing , trying to fit everyone into the same mold.  In the old days, the best tool without an instructor is two pieces of full length mirrors, placed at an angle so the golfer could see the front and the back of his image.

    My golf hero, Ben Hogan had never took a formal golf lesson. So didn't Seve Ballesteros , and a whole bunch of the PGA Hall Of Famers.  What they had, can not be purchased nor happen over night.


  16. First of all, don't get me wrong.  I am, a proponent for all the technology to help the golfers better their game.

    From a simple thing like golf ball, adjustable hosel ( this is a huge one for me coming from decades of pulling heads in order to change shafts ),  Affordable Launch Monitor , software to quantify the numbers to make sense of the "at moment" analyzing of our game.

    Perhaps, it is the generation thing , as I came from a time which I remember the first television set with a screen of inches and the first color television in our house.  The first personal computer, the first Window  which revolutionized the home computer use..... I'm not that ancient.

    However, I see more and more younger golfers depending on the technology in the game and totally forgot the other half of the formula, which is the person who will swing the golf club;  after all is fitted to the smallest detail.  We are, not "Iron Byron".   I heard one professional golfer talked about the change of his physical ability each day while he was on the Tour.    The changing physical condition of a human body could be minimized with better physical condition.  Since this is a game of winning or losing by a single stroke, the smallest change in our physical condition could turn out to be a huge issue on the golf course.   All the top players today, are physically fit and most of them could play any other professional sports if they chose to.  We won't see a professional with a beer belly who couldn't dee his own shoes when looking down. 

    Even the fittest golfer will have the up days and the down days since no one could stay the same physically and mentally in all 4 days through out the typical tournament.

    The expectation of open box solution probably will not work for this game as so many of the modern golfers expect to get fit for their equipment and Walla !  Instant improvement for their golf game.  Like ordering an item from Amazon and delivered to their front door to solve their issues as soon as they open the box.

    A big part of the attraction from this game is to keep the golfers looking for the Holly Grail to better their game.  The Ben Hogan's secret.  Which I believed he had disclosed it many times by saying " find it in the dirt".  The fitted driver will not be the best one to put in the bag , soon, after the fitting.  Why ?  We're not as devoted as the professionals who will make their living by playing the game.  Besides the talent, the physical demand ( as well as with all the other sports ), understanding of the human anatomy and it's relationship to swinging a golf club, then, what's left is to practice and play and practice and play.

    It's a life time journey for most of us, it's why I say, the public golf courses will not be crowded after the economy opened up for the other options.  It takes a special kind of person to stick with this game.

    What is your observation ?  

  17. 29 minutes ago, LeftyHawk said:

    Well, my 2 cents worth is this. From what I can find out gloves were used to help with gripping the club when the old leather grips were used and they got wet or at least damp. The popularity really took off when Arine started wearing one, he looked "cool" so everyone wanted to wear one and even more so when Jack started wearing one. As you noted Ben never gave in. As for me I tried for a while when I started back at the game around 2000, but shortly stopped wearing one. It just seemed to just get in the way. Haven't wore one since. I believe that most people wear them out of habit and marketing. With the advanced compounds in grips these days I, for one believe you don't need a glove. Which is why I don't wear one.



    I needed to take off my wedding ring without using the golf glove.  Wife gave me a funny look but never asked why.  Have to remember where I put the ring , so I won't lose it, and replace it to the finger after golfing.  This will be a new routine for me since I never take off the ring after the initial discomfort.

    I know people who will either take off their wedding ring before bedtime or they won't wear it while traveling for business without their family.  I asked them the reason why, and got a half ass reply of "I'm allergic to the metal".  I guess they're allergic to their marriage also.  One guy is now divorced .    

    The golf glove masked the ring very well and I never felt the ring under the glove.  However, with the bare hand, The ring got squeezed and moved around a little.  

    • Hmmm 1
  18. 9 minutes ago, MrShowbiz999 said:

    Think I already asked this, but any thoughts on any of the Volvik balls for me? They are running some sales now as well.

    I liked the Volvik 3 piece with matte color.  Their MSRP is not cheap.  But quality golf balls if you could find them with discount.

  19. 19 minutes ago, MrShowbiz999 said:

    It's not that I believe that I need a Pro V1, it's that I don't know if I should be playing a Pro V1 in regards to what advantage (or disadvantage) I have with that ball.

    And for those who keep saying "take lessons", please read that I have been taking lessons, that on a regular (public, less challenging) course I am losing about 4 - 6 balls in 18 holes. This 24 was anomaly. And thanks to everyone for their advice. I will continue to play anything I have in the garage until I run out and then I'll look at others, based in part from all the great advice I have been receiving here! 

    When I was new in the game, The budget golf balls were the Top Flite, Not much other choices besides the Ram, Ping , and Titleist.   played the top Flite until I got below 15 index.  Nothing wrong with any golf balls if I was mindful of how the golf balls would react  around the greens.  Allow for the extra movement with the hard two piece golf balls had worked out well.

    Although I had never lose more than a couple of golf balls per round back then, the premium golf balls were balata cover and wound center.  A thin shot would put a big smile on the golf ball.  I just didn't have the heart to play a $3.20 golf ball ( equivalent to today's $10.00 ).  Some of the guys I knew will toss the Titleist after a few holes even if the cover was still good.  Their reason was the golf ball would be out of rounds....then again, they received their golf balls at no cost from the OEM as part of their professional status.  I had to pay for mine.

    I was luck, since one of the local brick and mortar golf specialty store will sell the golf balls by the sleeves.  Usually they'll surcharge 30% per golf ball from the price of a dozen.  I would get a sleeve of the brands I'd like to try and find out on the golf course of whether I'd like to get a dozen later.

    There is no secret in golf to reach your personal best in this game.  It can not be rushed.  Practice and play will be the ticket to reach one's personal best.  Although, I did see a few cases of golfers not able to over come the score of 90, no matter how much they played and practiced.

    However, nothing wrong if they could extract the pleasure of playing this game.  Not everyone could reach the single index.  Either they could not devote the time and financial commitment or perhaps this is just not the right competition sports for them.

    As long as one could enjoy the game, and play it within one's financial means... why not ?  It certainly is one of the best sports we could get into without mortgage our house . 

    • Like 2
  20. 1 hour ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

    Well at least I had a few eagles on par 4's. That make me feel better!

    Nice job ! 

    I was luck to get mine.  Haven't had them for a long time ( holed out from the fairway  160 + out ).  I would not be surprised if I never have additional to add to my 2.  Mostly a rub of the luck as they said it.

    • Like 3
  21. I had always wear a glove glove ever since I picked up a golf club.  Even though, my personal golf hero in my youth was Ben Hogan , whom never wore a golf glove.  

    I guess I had been wearing golf glove because I started to develop calluses on my gloved hand, even with the protection of the glove.  Back in the days, driving range was quite affordable.  Often spent a whole day at the range and the practice green.  Between buckets of range balls and chipping / putting.  I like that better than hitting the bar scene like most of my friends and colleagues.  

    Long story short, I had several surgeries in the last few years and had to quit golfing for a period of several years.  Tried to bounce back into the game after the first major surgery.  Golfed for a few years until the second major surgery which forced me to quit golf and work out for a long long time.  Until recently, my wife had suggested for me to take her to the driving range to sharpen up her game.  Maybe she couldn't stand me being home on my days off and we had been staying home mostly through this difficult time of pandemics, for over a year..... so I welcomed the idea of getting back onto the saddle again.

    It went better than I had expected, as during the process of teaching and mentoring my wife's golf game; I had refreshed my own skill and the love for the game. 

    One thing happened last week.  I had forgotten my golf glove because I had switched golf bag for we did not need the mini staff bag full of golf clubs just for going to the driving range.   I tried to hit a few golf balls while wife is going through her practice routine, after I discovered that I had left my golf glove in the other golf bag left at home.

    Mind you, I was the kind of golfer who would feel "naked" without wearing a golf glove while swinging the golf club.  It's for the protection and mostly a habit.  As I was going through the practice session; without wearing golf glove as I used to; I had found  out that I really do not need the golf glove to hold on to the grip.  They are regular sized Lamkins full cords in the irons and Pure tour wrap with extra build-up in the driver and hybrids.  No extra wear on my fingers and hands going through about a large bucket of 120 range balls. in little over an hour of time.  I had no idea why I did not miss wearing the golf glove.  I had actually enjoyed swinging the golf clubs without wearing the golf glove.  Had more feel, better control.  Yeah, I know, I used to believe that I need to have a good grip on the golf club with a leather golf glove,  to execute a full golf swing.

    This is totally new to me.  I think I will try again and see if this experience was a one time deal or that I should be leaving my golf glove at home.   

    As almost everyone I met on the golf course all wear golf glove; I wonder why ?  Are we really the creature of following ?  we'll follow whoever market their golf equipment in front of our nose.  Like golf balls, drivers............

    • Like 4
  22. On 2/3/2021 at 6:44 AM, fixyurdivot said:

    Another long time friend and I are still ace-less after decades of playing the game.  Like so many, we've been very close but close just dosen't count.  We started sharing pictures of our latest "close encounters" to commiserate with one another.  I thought it would be fun to start a larger therapy group here on MGS. 

    I'll start off with my most recent.  Hole #17 at Desert Hills GC in Yuma, AZ.  Playing at 140 yards to the front flag, 8i. 😢


    Looking back at the tee




    Had come closer to the cup than your shot quite a few times in the last few decades, never had an ACE.

    Had a couple of holed-in on second shot at par 4's and no dice on the par 3.

    Had witness a new golfer in his first year of golfing Aced a par 3 ( he had no clue of the customary round of drinks for the witnesses including the Marshall who had waited behind the green to greet him ).  

    Not to take it away from all of you whom had an ace in golf, congratulations to all of you.    I understand the hole out from a fairway will be much more difficult than from a tee box.  I treasure more of the Eagles with par4's and 5's. ( sour grape ? )

    • Like 3
  23. Excuse me for asking this, but, why would you believe you'll need the performance of ProV-1 for your current golf game ?

    You just reached 230 on your drive ( total distance ) and you're losing more than 10 golf balls on a more challenging golf course.......  Sounds like you need to practice more with the lessons and stay on the driving range often.

    A lesson in course management implied with your ability of golf probably will reduce your errant shots and you'll need a golf ball which will give you more distance.

    I seldom look into others golf bag since there be "new" model coming out each year from all the OEM ( some with multiple release of new models annually ).  What will catch my attention is when someone executed a beautiful golf shot.  I'd love to know which club they use.  Surprisingly, Usually not the top brands of golf clubs and golf balls.

    However, if the -show and tell- is important for your golf game, by all means use whatever pleases you.  Pro V1 is not the most expensive golf ball there is ,

  24. A lot will treat the $5 bet as nothing and let it slide.

    My personal view on these matter is, let it slide if nothing is riding on the outcome of the game.  $5 is $5, regardless of it's today's value.

    You'll need to bring this whole thing out, in front of the group, the proper way to do it is in front of everyone including "Joe".  A good place would be at lunch break or when everyone sits around for a drink and waiting for the result of the game to be calculated.  Bring it up casually but firmly.  State your point, and if the group does not take your point of view then, you'll have a choice of leaving the group or forever shut up about this.

    I'm quite an easy going golfer when playing a sociable round of golf.  I'm all business when I'm in a game with something riding on the outcome.  Why bother to place a bet on the game if allowing the rules to be ignored ?  Just open up your wallet and fork over the $5 on the first tee box !

    If you decided that indeed the $5 per week is good entertainment to watch someone going through the motion...... then don't let it bother you, for it may cause you a few strokes if you keep thinking of it during the round.  And it certainly is cheap if someone would show their true self over a $5 bet.  

    Long time ago there was a group I golf with every Monday, had similar situation which, the rules of the game was never enforced but everyone had to put $1 per hole into the pot....... I quit that group.  Rather tee it up with total strangers than a forced game which I knew they don't play with a full deck.  I don't have time for that kind of garbage.


    • Like 1
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