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Final Reviews: Inesis Waterproof Grip Golf Shoes

Ratings Distribution

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50%
0%
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Detailed Ratings

Basic Features
Fit and Comfort
Looks
Miscellaneous
On-Course Performance
Wear Them or Trade Them?
Testers
Equipment Type: Golf shoe
Vendor: Inesis

Screenshot 2021-07-02 11.35.50.png

Inesis is a brand that has made a bit of a splash in recent Most Wanted testing. This is especially true of their shoes, which earned "Best Value" spikeless shoe in both 2019 and in 2021—and was rated the most comfortable shoe in 2019.

We've got four Forum members who'll be testing Inesis's Waterproof Grip golf shoes.

@analyticandrew

 

@Curtis Atkinson

@EasyPutter

@MattF

Looks
Fit and Comfort
Basic Features
On-Course Performance
Miscellaneous
Wear Them or Trade Them?

DECATHLON INESIS WATERPROOF GRIP golf shoe – Official MGS Forum Review by EasyPutter

 

Intro

Golf is my favorite thing, favorite thought, favorite conversation and favorite pastime.  I do not take golf seriously but I am serious about having fun with golf.  I look for good equipment at a good price for value that’s made well and durable to last a long while when treated well.  

I walk when I am playing with others who ride carts.  I don’t have a driver in my bag because I cannot twist much and have a low clubhead speed with a furthest ball carry of just under 200 yards.  My short game is my strength and my go-to pitch and chip club is my 7 iron.  I regularly get to within feet of the cup for a real chance at my favorite scorecard entry, a one putt.  And my putter with perfect heel/toe balance only needs one good stroke to drop it in the cup. 

I was wearing sneakers when I started golfing 10 years ago.  FJs with replaceable cleats were my first golf shoes, then Adidas without cleats.  I just got my second pair of FJs with cleats when I was selected for this test.  When I shop for shoes I look at price first, appearance second, and then fit.  All 3 of those things are on the positive scale with these Decathlon Inesis shoes.

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First Impressions

First a disclaimer: Many statements in this review sound over the top.  So much so that I expect to get criticism from anyone not reading the whole review.  Because I have had an overwhelmingly positive experience, I have been actively looking for any reason to not be so positive but, despite my best efforts, I have yet to find one. I had no previous knowledge of Decathlon or their shoes and started this test with no bias.

Now on with the review...

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Out of the box, the Decathlon Inesis shoes had immediate appeal with traditional styling, white and dark brown uppers, a glowing translucent sole, and laces that looked like thick spaghetti with the word INESIS easily read in the aglets.  We were cautioned to specify size for ordering a whole size larger than usual.  I wear a US 9.5 mens and ordered a 10.5 with trepidation being a size I have never worn before.  What arrived was the right size for fit though the toe box feels roomy and tying the laces did not reduce that spacious feel but through use I found it to be exceedingly comfortable.  The tongue has no gaps and it has a strange tapered edge shaped to fit well around the ankle.  

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Stepping into the shoes for the first time (and every time since) is an amazing experience of feel and comfort. As soon as my foot was in properly it was as if the shoe was form fit to my specifications, which gave an unusual roomy feeling making me expect sliding and slipping that would cause blisters or some other mishap.  The laces were neatly tied and tucked into a formed cardboard insert that preserved the shape of the shoe should anything crush the box.  Unlacing to remove them and lacing for wear is absolutely necessary because they are form fitting on my feet.  The laces themselves feel somewhat spongy and flexible that when tied feel secure.  I am a diehard double knot user and I did not try to wear them without a double knot to see if they would come loose, but those double knots were always easy to tie and untie even when the laces were wet.  

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What I hoped to get from the experience was a comfortable shoe that gripped all playing surfaces well and rarely attracted my attention to them. For me that means comfortably standing for hours like yesterday when we played 18 in the rain with nobody behind us, it took 5 hours and between 7 to 8 miles changing into and out of them in the parking lot. 

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(Standing in an inch of water on a waterlogged tee box.)

The way I tested these Inesis shoes was by wearing them instead of any other shoe doing anything related to golf from the day I received them until yesterday for a full month of testing.  I resorted to walking through water and mud instead of going around, pushing my clubs in my push cart even on a discount voucher with cart, and drawing attention to the shoes and inviting comments from others around me (and some of them were introduced to MyGolfSpy in the telling).

Looks (10 out of 10 points) 

The shoes look good in all the offered colors and being somewhat a traditionalist I like the two tone white brown look of the Snowy White option on the Decathlon website https://www.decathlon.com/collections/all-golf-shoes/products/mens-golf-shoes-waterproof-grip? or  “White/Black” on the packing slip. Compared to my playing partner's shoes, it fits right in with that color scheme.  The sole colors are matched to the uppers and different for each shoe color.  The nature of the sole material is translucent so the colored sections of the grip part appear to glow.  Everything is flexible in a pliable firm way, it does not appear cheaply made in any way.

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(I am standing on the right in the lime green shirt wearing my Decathlon Inesis shoes.)

The larger white upper compared to their shoes to me makes sense considering it is intended to be waterproof and a continuous unbroken upper lends itself to fewer seams and places where water might find a way inside.  Only when attention was drawn to them, usually by me explaining the MGS test and asking for opinion, did people actually look at them because they compliment both traditional and modern golf apparel.

So as appealing as it is, Looks gets 10 points because even now I am trying to find fault with anything and failing. 

 

Fit and Comfort (9 out of 10 points) 

The shoe fits much better than I had expected putting a size 10.5 shoe on a size 9.5 foot, but true to what was said the sizes are small and ordering a size larger is best. That is confirmed in my wearing, however it is different in each of the 3 parts of the foot, toe, arch, and heel.  

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The shoe feels roomy in the toe and I was concerned at first that it had too much room for the ball, toes and forward part of the foot. I have decided it is just the way the shoe fits and I have not had any issues with that roomy feeling.  The arch is snug and tying laces tighter is not helpful for reducing the previously mentioned roominess so I laced them as I do every other shoe and with that there is no more to say.  The heel fits right the instant heel meets insole.  The heel collar is so well designed for my foot I never developed a hot spot regardless of the day’s temperature, the sock I was wearing (footie or athletic), or the terrain traversed.

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Sizing is available from 6.5 to 13.5 but the site seems to be out of some sizes depending on colors, that I think are shipped when produced.  Currently they are available in a single width.  

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(Looks good with long trousers as with shorts.  Never tried with a kilt.)

If I could make any change to this shoe it would be to reduce the roominess of the front part of the shoe which I hesitate to say because it actually works so well for me, it like me is somewhat untraditional so how can that be bad?!

So considering all that Fit and Comfort gets 9 points because 10 is perfect and I’m still waiting for the other shoe to drop (yes an intended metaphor).

 

Basic Features (19 out of 20 points)

This shoe is intended to be all about waterproofing and traction.

 

Waterproofing -

With all the dry weather it was a challenge to test the waterproofing.  I was like the little boy attracted to the puddles, usually at the sprinkler heads, but if it was water and I could walk through it I did and with dry socks in my golf bag I did not hesitate to splash and kick the water and keep stepping to find the deepest spot.  My socks didn’t even wick the water into the shoes as best as I could determine.  

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(Muddy hole created by the sprinkler head in a fairway.)

My feet felt dry and cool regardless of the day’s weather or the puddles I walked through and this week it was finally wet enough for a good waterproof test.  Walking through puddles included steps I was sure would give me a “hot foot” with water up to the top of the laces.  Maybe there was an ingress due to sock wicking but I could not find wetness in the sock changing shoes that time 3 holes and 40 minutes later.  My feet did feel cooler from the immersion in the water but it was the temperature of the shoe not the chill of a wet sock.

Each time the shoes got wet, they dried off quickly and walking spilled any pooled water there was on the tongue.  Even the mud didn’t stay on very well and in a month of testing I only wiped the uppers clean twice.  

 

Traction -

The design of the sole facing is remarkable for its simplicity and how well it works.  Walking I found it excels at grip on natural surfaces like grass, dirt, sand and even mulch.  Regardless of slope and wetness these shoes grip like they are nailed in but they are very easy to walk in without any kind of resistance to lifting the foot for the next step.  This also applies to grated and rough surfaces made of metal, artificial grass, carpets and grip tape. 

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(After the first wear with asphalt darkening the "Spikeless Spikes" as I call them.)

On smooth surfaces like wood, rubber, metal, and wet concrete and asphalt traction is not so good to be less traction than regular sneakers that have greater surface contact area. That said keeping in mind the traction is like walking on a thin layer of freshly fallen snow, even crossing linoleum and tiles is easily done, again mindful not to be too aggressive with walking and changing directions.

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(Footprint in sand.  I lifted one foot and noticed the pattern, notable for how undisturbed the surrounding sand was when the shoe was lifted.  Made raking seem like it left more of a mess than the footsteps did.)

One course played has a steep rise up to the tee I use.  The paved cart path has the same incline as the grass and as, I pushed my cart up the cart path I could feel traction become less certain so I moved laterally a few feet onto the grass and that was like a switch was flipped to SUPER TRACTION.  After that round I had a next golf activity a couple hours drive away and I chose to not change shoes for the drive.  It was a pleasant surprise at how easy driving was with these shoes.  It also meant I did not have to change shoes in order to drive and then change back upon arrival.

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(Left and Right shoe soles after 6 rounds of golfing, see if you can spot a sign of wear, a hint is the same part is worn off on both shoes.  Checking yesterday after 14 rounds of golf and such, nothing more was noted.)

The “spikeless spikes” as I have called them are molded into the sole and are not interchangeable.  I have not noticed any significant wear on them after 14 golfing adventures that included a mixture of 9 and 18 hole rounds where I purposely walked different surfaces to see when I would notice wear on these extended traction enhancers.  There was also a few golf clinics that included a few holes of play and I walked while others rode carts.

As Waterproofing and Traction are the main selling features of this shoe I give the Basic Features a score of 19 out of 20 because of the difficulty with the brake pedal parking brake mechanism when wearing this shoe compared to how I don't remember having that problem with cleated shoes before.

 

On-Course / LM Performance (25 out of 30 points)

Being the kind of golfer I am, it would be nice to see an erosion of my handicap by every new thing tried but being a realist, I know it is the contact of clubface to ball that does that.  I am not convinced that shoes are going to have a great effect with my low clubhead speed.  But I do feel planted for each shot and that allows me to focus on getting that contact so yes I think these shoes do help me work on my game. 

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(Second to last day of testing provided no end of wet conditions to walk through standing water with continuous heavy rain for 45 minutes that actually made it necessary to stop in the lee of a tree, no lightning.)

At no time did I feel a slip during my swing no matter the side slope, surface material, or wetness of what I was standing on.  My scores remained fairly constant but I have seen a greater number of pars than before that would be significant if it wasn’t for the meltdown holes when I become consistent on the negative side of the equation.  In my assessment there was no aspect of my game (tee, approach, sand, short, or putting) that was negatively affected by these shoes.

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(The dimpling by the arch on the upper makes the first wearing seem like not much of a break in is required.)

Riding a golf cart that was required for two different tournaments I discovered while driving, the shoes caused some difficulty with engaging the parking brake, that upper portion of the golf cart brake pedal that ratchets and locks the brakes on.  Pressing that part was more of a problem when stopping and sitting than when stopping and getting out.

One curious thing I noticed was when it was quiet on a well maintained green, I could hear the shoes around the toe section making a kind of popping sound I think is due to the extra material forming that space that is giving the roomy feeling.  It is not always there that I have noticed, or maybe it is and just below the volume of my tinnitus (like many Veterans it’s how I constantly hear Freedom ring), so I'm still working that out.

Considering all these things, the On-Course score of 25 out of 30 points is  2 off for the shoe sound on well manicured greens and 3 off for the parking brake issue that required attention to make sure they were engaged properly.

 

Miscellaneous (10 out of 10 points)

My playing partners were great with this test, looking for opportunities for me to take the short route through waterlogged ground, commenting to other golfers what was going on, and helping with photos. The fact the shoes just kept performing so well made it a really great test and had me looking forward to each next game and as many as possible to try to find the weakness yet to be uncovered.  It took a month to get the shoes once they were ordered so not so good for making me wait but good for increasing my sense of urgency to test as soon as I got them.

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(My Inesis shoe is upper right compared to playing partner's traditional style golf shoes, and my putter.)

I gave this section Miscellaneous full points because I have yet to find that weakness and they certainly did give my regular partners another line of Scout Dad jokes and added to the fun that enhances every one of our rounds.

 

Play it or Trade it? (20 out of 20 points)

Play it every day for as long as they last.  If you want my shoes you have to go buy your own.  The list price (same website as before) in my experienced estimation is a very well spent $79.99.  I also find the long wearing sole very encouraging because with the way I step that kind of wear is amazingly small.  

Since you are going to see me wearing these for some time to come as I intend to update the string with any developments, this section Play it or Trade it gets 20 of 20 points.


Conclusion

Long story short, I love the shoes and like every new relationship I’m still waiting for the other shoe to drop (yes figuratively speaking).  They fit great, wear great, have great traction for golfing on every natural surface but not so much for dancing on the clubhouse floors.  They are truly waterproof but breathe well as evidenced by dry comfortable socks even on wet days sloshing through low spots too deep for grass tips to show. I have always wondered if the shoes I look at and consider are worth the price on them and now for once I know the answer for the Decathlon Inesis shoes.  Yes, it is worth the price, and as a result of this review I would hope the price is maintained as a great value that can fit a frugal golfer’s budget knowing they will be less expensive in the long run as my intuition says these are going to last for a good long time. The Final Score reflects my experience with the Decathlon Inesis Waterproof Grip shoes and I sincerely hope your experience should you choose these as your next shoe is just as positive.

Final Score: (93 out of 100 points)

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Verified Hack, 23 handicap 🙂  Golfing for exercise and peace of mind.

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2020 Official Tester - PuttUp mat logo_full_331d238c-3cab-4f84-ac72-d09e86f448c5_300x-25.png.11580987b80d9d26da7f04a31eadac9d.png  2021 Official Tester - Inesis Waterproof Grip Golf Shoes 1398724741_Inesislogo.jpg.34e215e2c1310a7b31d310ab89f4c188.jpg

Link to review
MattF

Looks
Fit and Comfort
Basic Features
On-Course Performance
Miscellaneous
Wear Them or Trade Them?

Inesis Waterproof Grip Golf shoe review.

Intro: I won't go into a long winded intro of myself as most of you know me. Long story short, I'm from Australia originally, now living in NE Ohio. I've been playing for close to 16 years after taking up golf to have something in common with my FIL. I'm a member at Windmill Lakes Golf Club and walk all but 1 or 2 rounds a year there. My normal golf shoes are Puma spikeless, which are very comfortable.

Looks (8 out of 10):

Out of the box, and they did actually come in a box, unlike a couple of the other guys, they looked quite good. Not weird like the Sketchers I used to have, just a good looking golf shoe. Test fitting, they were comfortable, almost as comfortable as my Pumas. I ordered the Midnight Blue and received my second choice of the Snowy White. I was actually not too upset because they really do look good in the white with black accents. Decathlon even went so far as to have the laces branded, not a big deal to me because I always change out the laces for no tie type, but a nice touch. The only failure is the colourways...there aren't enough. I'd like to see them have a pair of black and a pair of grey.
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Fit and comfort (6 out of 10):

This is the downer of my review. We were told that the shoes run small so order the next size up. OK, that's reasonable and I've had to do that with other shoes before. However, I wear a 10.5 and the following is Decathlons sizes: 6.5, 7.5, 8, 9, 9.5, 10.5, 11.5, 12, 13, 13.5 anyone see a problem? Just a really weird range of sizes. I need an 11 but they don't make an 11 so I had to get an 11.5 which leaves a good 1/2" more room than I need in the toes. So walking the shoes make a gooping noise because of the extra length.

They're absolutely comfortable but would be more so if they actually fit properly. Note to Decathlon, please make more sizes or make the shoes to the actual size they say.

Basic Features (20 out of 20):

Traction and waterproofing are the name of the game here.

I'll start with traction first. They grip very very well. I have not had once instance of slipping during a shot or walking whatsoever. The sole design is a lot more aggressive than most spikeless shoes and that's the secret. They will leave marks on the green , which I was surprised about but they don't do any damage. I wish more golf shoe manufacturers used this design for their soles. They're that good.

Waterproofing...it's legit. When we first got the shoes I was struggling to find any moisture to test the waterproofing claims short of hosing myself down in the backyard because we hadn't had a lot of rain. Then this last week in NE Ohio has had some torrential rain and I got to test in real world conditions. Now, the shoes will not stop the water coming in around your ankles, but after playing in pretty atrocious conditions, my toes and tops and bottoms of my feet were dry.

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On Course Performance (20 out of 30):

Traction and waterproofing again are the stand-outs on the course. Absolutely the best shoes I have had in those categories. Stable in the sand, rough and fairway...and puddles. Dry feet after slogging around a very wet course. The reason for lower score goes back to sizing. Yes they were comfortable but there was always that thought in the back of my mind when I was hitting a shot that they just felt a bit off because they were too big. That and the gooping noise when walking is annoying to say the least.

Miscellaneous (8 out of 10):

I like the tongue design with the shoe being that it's connected all the way to the top, it feels more secure. (Maybe that's to help with the sizing issue) The branding on the laces is also a nice touch along with the fact that when you get them you can put them on and play 18 with no break-in required. The minimal amount of packaging is a good decision, not that I'm a greenie, but you really don't need more than the box to put them in. The price is certainly not a deal breaker for $80, which is quite a bit less than a lot of other shoes on the market. After  a half a dozen rounds there's no sign of any wear on the soles, just discolouration.

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Play it or Trade it (10 out of 20):

I'll play them, but only if there's a good chance of rain. The waterproofing and traction trumps the size issues in that regard but can't overcome it in good weather.

Conclusion

The right price with traction and waterproofing galore, but for the love of all that's holy, get the sizes either right or more of them.

Final Score: (72 out of 100)

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In the bag:
Driver: :titelist-small: TSi2 Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX 6.0
Fairway: :Sub70: 939X 15° Project X Even Flow Blue 6.0
Hybrid: :Sub70: 939X 3 Hybrid Project X Even Flow Riptide 6.0
Irons: :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 4-GW Project X Catalyst 80 6.0
Wedge: :cleveland-small: Smartsole S
Putter :Sub70: Sycamore 005 Wide Blade
Bag: 
:Ogio: Alpha Convoy 514
Balls::Snell: MTB-X or Black

Cart: :CaddyTek: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8


God Bless America🇺🇸, God save the Queen🇬🇧, God defend New Zealand🇳🇿 and thank Christ for Australia🇦🇺!

Link to review

5 Comments


Hey guys, appreciate the reviews.  I've worn Inesis for the last couple years and completely love mine.  I'm with you on wishing there were some more colors - like a black or grey (and not just the saddle).  Mine have stayed nice and dry - but one one pair (I have white, brown and blue) the trim along the edge is peeling away.  Has NOT impacted the waterproofing - just odd. 

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Question for you - why did you buy a different size?  I'm a 9.5 in every shoe I own, including these.  I really like the fit.  And yes, I'm a walker... I don't find that they are small.  

Best thing - can't beat the price.

 

  • Like 2
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1 hour ago, WaffleHouseTour said:

Question for you - why did you buy a different size?

We were told that they run small and their website states that they run small. I'm a 10.5, so an 11 would be perfect but they don't make an 11.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
16 hours ago, WaffleHouseTour said:

Question for you - why did you buy a different size?  I'm a 9.5 in every shoe I own, including these.  I really like the fit.  And yes, I'm a walker... I don't find that they are small.  

That is interesting your actual size is right for you.  I went with the next size larger because that was what we were cautioned in the message to testers when informed how to provide our information to the vendor.  Wearing them as I have not worn anything else this year as I am really giving them an extended test for durability and wear, so thanks for the photo as I will keep an eye out for anything like that. 

I think the larger size is the right size for these shoes from my experience but I have not been able to try my own size for comparison so thank you also for your input! 👍

  • Like 1
Link to comment
15 hours ago, MattF said:

We were told that they run small and their website states that they run small. I'm a 10.5, so an 11 would be perfect but they don't make an 11.

Inesis should have replaced the shoes with the right size.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
3 hours ago, fozcycle said:

Inesis should have replaced the shoes with the right size.

I agree, but they simply don't see a size 11. They go from 10.5 to 11.5 and I noted that in my review. Plus, their stock was very very limited. When we went on their website, most of the sizes and colours were out of stock.

  • Like 1
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177 Comments




Another shoe company that does not have my size, 14, perhaps that why I continue to wear Footjoy

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It's would be good if I can test it as it is now Autumn/fall here in New Zealand and winter is definitely coming.  Courses are always damp to say the least so this will put this shoe to a great test.

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Would love to give these a test, digging that snowy white colorway!

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I have always played in FootJoy shoes so I would like to test the Enises shoe to see how it compares.

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I only walk courses I can survive or on level fairways, so I'm mostly a rider. Although golf season is always too short and wet here in the northeast, its a lovely place to splash through a golf round in the Spring. And I can guarantee that any shoes I wear are stress-tested to the seams . . . I carry a hefty load even without a bag of clubs. I've had 70 years to pack it on but no one ever has to wait for me to catch up, even if they're riding!

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Really interested to find out how the comfort and support is. Footjoys have a narrow toe box and my feet are always sore after a round. 

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I try to walk as much as I can on carts only courses. I currently wear Sketchers and if there is a more comfortable pair of shoes out there,

I would really like to know.

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I tried to purchase a pair in my size several times but they were always sold out. Would love to try them and give my feedback. I’ve traditional worn foot joys, and have also tried Nike and under armor shoes in the past. Last year I bought a pair of adidas spineless shoes on a whim and I love them. 

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I am always on the hunt for a shoe with a wide forefoot.  Thanks. 

 

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Great!! I am a walker that play at least 5-6 times a month and with summer golf approaching I would love to try a new pair of INESIS, I am always looking to try new and improved equipments, awesome!!, I own two new pairs of spikeless ECCO and they make a huge difference on the golf course. Please, I would like to be chosen for this test. Thank you

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I'm quite a shoe hawk. Love the classic leather shoes. Allen Edmonds, Walter Genuin Italian, Dexter Classics. Gotta look good when you play in plus fours!

I'd like to try some spikeless shoes to compare against real high end shoes.

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Recently switched from Softspikes to spikeless shoes...Inesis isn't available in shops/courses here in Indianapolis.

Please include me in this great opportunity please 

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I have trouble finding shoes that fit comfortably because of the arthritis in my left foot.  Would be glad to see if maybe these are the ones I need and others with foot problems could use.

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I'm a 6' 2", 230 lbs, but fit, 72-YO confirmed walking golfer who plays >100 holes/week on average, 12 months a year. Due perhaps to a touch of polio in that 1950s epidemic, my feet are 1.5 men's sizes different (10.5W, 12W), so finding athletic shoes for any sport has been a life-long pain, sometimes literally. I wore the Footjoy Contour for years, but they recently changed it radically fitwise, and they did not hold up, either--one of the eyelets ripped out, I hand sewed it back together. Then I found an Adidas shoe (11.5 W) that I love, but now its discontinued. All true--really! On the hunt again.

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interesting looking shoe.  I would really like to try this shoe to see how it performs in real life.  Shoe size 8.5

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Bernhard Langer seems like a Bond villain, so I've been skeptical. 

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I've been looking at new shoes. I'd love the opportunity to test (and keep) these!

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As a relatively new golfer, I did not know the the importance of golf shoe technology, I assumed all the shoes performed the same function without much variation. However, in the last 4 fours years I have tried on many golf shoes and been exposed to many novice and experienced golfer ideals regarding golf shoes. Some were okay and some were just horribly uncomfortable. I have some issues with my wide feet, so a more comfortable shoe with some bells and whistles would be a welcomed addition to my golf closes. If selected a 11 1/2 shoe would be great. Thanks for the potential opportunity!

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Very interested in the waterproofing of the Inesis golf shoe. I play in rain and wet conditions frequently. Because of this I’ve always worn spikes. I am excited and would be honored to give these a shot!

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I only wear spikeless shoes (Ecco Biom Hybrid GTX 3). I jog between shots and it gets my heart rate up to about 160 or so. Great exercise (like interval training). These shoes would be interesting to test as my Eccos could use some extra cushioning.

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Florida, always need waterproof shoes!

 

 

 

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I'm interested in seeing how breathable these shoes are and how water-proof they really are. I say this because of the fact that I have had brands that say their shoe is "water proof" but its barely water resistant, the reason that a shoe being water proof is so important is that 1. I'm on a golf team and we will play in any weather, 2. I live in the pacific northwest in Washington State, so lots of water. Lastly the second most inporntant factor is grip, I use spiked golf shoes since I wanted guaranteed traction since when I've used spikless I find that they don't have enough grip, especially in wet weather. I hope that these shoes will stand up to the standards that it sets and that it goes beyond them too.

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