BestGrips.com Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I finally had the chance to go to the range this weekend and put a little work in. After tinkering a little with my driver configuration this weekend, I started thinking of the poor state of custom fitting today. "Custom fitting" today means going in to the store and hitting a few shafts, picking a couple, tinkering with weights and positions and then finally coming up with a combo you like. The majority of the time is spent on arguable non-sense and the stuff that matters (the specs and info that isn't "pretty" in print ads) like: frequency matching the stiffness of the shaft, spine-ing, and flo-ing (flat-line oscillation) are largely ignored. Now let's put aside the debate over whether or not adjustability does anything. If you spine and flo your shafts (you should if you want consistency), you have to pull the shaft each time you want to change the settings. That real seems like the OEM's could care less if you take the time to make sure the shaft is correctly installed (they don't ). Going back to what started this train of thought... It's nice to see a company (Callaway Golf) actually pay attention and create an adjustability system that doesn't affect the shaft's alignment (also great for hand-stitched grips! Now when I tinker, I don't need a blow torch and epoxy on the range. @bestgrips @puttershoes Best Grips is a second generation family business specializing in golf grips! We are the home of the only made in the USA (Texas to be specific) genuine leather golf grips and head covers. No fancy words, pictures or endorsements with BestGrips.com, just the best performing golf grips money can buy! Check out the new site (www.bestgrips.com)! Use "golfspy" for free shipping on all U.S. orders over $50! What's in my BG custom club glove staff bag? Click here. Current ball of choice: 'Stones three three zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Theoo Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Nike's flexloft system is similar as well. Although its just for loft, if you want to adjust the face angle the shaft orientation will change, but for me i just adjust the loft because i prefer the neutral setting. I'm sure if more people were concerned about the spine of the shaft OEMs would have more adapters that work like the Callaway one. Driver: Epic 10.5 set to 9.5 w/ Tour AD-DI 44.5 FW: F6 baffler set at 16º Hybrid: NONEIrons: 3i 2014 TP CB 4-PW 2011 TP MC w/ TT S400 Wedges: 52º 56º 60 º w/ KBS C-Taper XS Soft-stepped Putter: Sigma G Tyne 34 inches Gold dot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestGrips.com Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 Nike's flexloft system is similar as well. Although its just for loft, if you want to adjust the face angle the shaft orientation will change, but for me i just adjust the loft because i prefer the neutral setting. I'm sure if more people were concerned about the spine of the shaft OEMs would have more adapters that work like the Callaway one. That seems like a catch 22. I'm sure most people ignore doing that to the shafts because OEM's ignore it, while I hope that OEM's ignore it because buyers don't ask for it. A little off topic, but I wonder what would happen if a placebo club (adjustable but the adjustments don't change anything) was used in a test against an adjustable club. I'm sure the results would be interesting. If you have never heard of frequency matching, spine-ing a shaft, or flo-ing, you should really check it out! Especially frequency matching... I've seen 6.5's that were really 5.5 and vice-versa. @bestgrips @puttershoes Best Grips is a second generation family business specializing in golf grips! We are the home of the only made in the USA (Texas to be specific) genuine leather golf grips and head covers. No fancy words, pictures or endorsements with BestGrips.com, just the best performing golf grips money can buy! Check out the new site (www.bestgrips.com)! Use "golfspy" for free shipping on all U.S. orders over $50! What's in my BG custom club glove staff bag? Click here. Current ball of choice: 'Stones three three zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 That seems like a catch 22. I'm sure most people ignore doing that to the shafts because OEM's ignore it, while I hope that OEM's ignore it because buyers don't ask for it. A little off topic, but I wonder what would happen if a placebo club (adjustable but the adjustments don't change anything) was used in a test against an adjustable club. I'm sure the results would be interesting. If you have never heard of frequency matching, spine-ing a shaft, or flo-ing, you should really check it out! Especially frequency matching... I've seen 6.5's that were really 5.5 and vice-versa. Just curious. Do you do your frequency matching by making the set hit the same frequency, or increase by 4 CPM as the club gets shorter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskey golf Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Do you think manufacturers spine, FLO, etc. the shafts they use for club fitting? Would the shafts on a fitting cart be really close to true specs on flex, weight and all that stuff? Because if they were really off then wouldn't that mess up the fitting. Say you found out that a DG S300 labeled shaft worked for you but that particular fitting shaft was actually playing more like an X100. So you get the clubs and most of the shafts play to S300 and then you start having problems. How would that work out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG STU Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Do you think manufacturers spine, FLO, etc. the shafts they use for club fitting? Would the shafts on a fitting cart be really close to true specs on flex, weight and all that stuff? Because if they were really off then wouldn't that mess up the fitting. Say you found out that a DG S300 labeled shaft worked for you but that particular fitting shaft was actually playing more like an X100. So you get the clubs and most of the shafts play to S300 and then you start having problems. How would that work out? [/quote That's why a good fitter has the shafts in demo clubs marked to the frequency etc that is actually what that particular club comes up to. A good example came up for me a few years back. I had a stock Hogan CS-5 that I hit great with a NVS 65 stiff shaft. I was trying a Wishon with the same shaft not as good. We tinkered with 3 different NVS 65 shafts and never could duplicate the numbers on that particular one. I ended up putting in a Pro Force 65 Gold stiff and got the right numbers and hit it well for a number of years. I learned a lot from that experience it really woke me up. Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56* Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestGrips.com Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 Just curious. Do you do your frequency matching by making the set hit the same frequency, or increase by 4 CPM as the club gets shorter? I increase it, but it's been so long since I re-shafted my irons, I'll have to look it up. It's somewhere between 4 and 8. @bestgrips @puttershoes Best Grips is a second generation family business specializing in golf grips! We are the home of the only made in the USA (Texas to be specific) genuine leather golf grips and head covers. No fancy words, pictures or endorsements with BestGrips.com, just the best performing golf grips money can buy! Check out the new site (www.bestgrips.com)! Use "golfspy" for free shipping on all U.S. orders over $50! What's in my BG custom club glove staff bag? Click here. Current ball of choice: 'Stones three three zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestGrips.com Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 Do you think manufacturers spine, FLO, etc. the shafts they use for club fitting? Would the shafts on a fitting cart be really close to true specs on flex, weight and all that stuff? Because if they were really off then wouldn't that mess up the fitting. Say you found out that a DG S300 labeled shaft worked for you but that particular fitting shaft was actually playing more like an X100. So you get the clubs and most of the shafts play to S300 and then you start having problems. How would that work out? That's why a good fitter has the shafts in demo clubs marked to the frequency etc that is actually what that particular club comes up to. A good example came up for me a few years back. I had a stock Hogan CS-5 that I hit great with a NVS 65 stiff shaft. I was trying a Wishon with the same shaft not as good. We tinkered with 3 different NVS 65 shafts and never could duplicate the numbers on that particular one. I ended up putting in a Pro Force 65 Gold stiff and got the right numbers and hit it well for a number of years. I learned a lot from that experience it really woke me up. From personal experience, if it's not advertised or noted, it isn't frequency matched. I've only found a few shafts right on the mark with frequency: the old frequency matched rifles, and the arthur xteme engineering. Clubfitting in general will make you a little queazy, if you see how lazy some people are behind the scenes. I've watched a tour van club fitter tell a pro he would bend his irons and hard step his fw. The fitter never touched the irons and randomly chopped some tip off a new shaft and stuck it in the head. I hope that was an isolated experience. @bestgrips @puttershoes Best Grips is a second generation family business specializing in golf grips! We are the home of the only made in the USA (Texas to be specific) genuine leather golf grips and head covers. No fancy words, pictures or endorsements with BestGrips.com, just the best performing golf grips money can buy! Check out the new site (www.bestgrips.com)! Use "golfspy" for free shipping on all U.S. orders over $50! What's in my BG custom club glove staff bag? Click here. Current ball of choice: 'Stones three three zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskey golf Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Clubfitting in general will make you a little queazy Club fitting already makes my head spin enough. Club building is worse, like when I hear people talk about all the variables involved in making a "precision" built set such as epoxy weight, spining the shaft, head weight, etc. I only think there's so much you can do for an amateur to improve his consistency as far as equipment goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbloor Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Club fitting already makes my head spin enough. Club building is worse, like when I hear people talk about all the variables involved in making a "precision" built set such as epoxy weight, spining the shaft, head weight, etc. I only think there's so much you can do for an amateur to improve his consistency as far as equipment goes. There's only so much you can do for anyone as far as equipment goes, but I wouldn't be surprised if the incremental benefits of a well-fitted, well-built set of clubs is greater for an off-the-rack hacker than for the highly-skilled players. I know I sure benefitted when I finally started buying equipment I didn't have to fight with out on the course. Cleveland Black 10.5* Ping G15 4W Cleveland Mashie 18* Cleveland Mashie 23* Ping G15 5-W Eidolon 51* Ping G20 SW Mizuno/Bettinardi BC-01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskey golf Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 There's only so much you can do for anyone as far as equipment goes, but I wouldn't be surprised if the incremental benefits of a well-fitted, well-built set of clubs is greater for an off-the-rack hacker than for the highly-skilled players. I know I sure benefitted when I finally started buying equipment I didn't have to fight with out on the course. Yeah but pros can really use every bit of good fitting and building that they can get. Everything counts for them because it's their job and not ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestGrips.com Posted November 12, 2013 Author Share Posted November 12, 2013 There's only so much you can do for anyone as far as equipment goes, but I wouldn't be surprised if the incremental benefits of a well-fitted, well-built set of clubs is greater for an off-the-rack hacker than for the highly-skilled players. I know I sure benefitted when I finally started buying equipment I didn't have to fight with out on the course. +1 Yeah but pros can really use every bit of good fitting and building that they can get. Everything counts for them because it's their job and not ours. Anyone can benefit from a proper fitting and a great short game, regardless of skill or golf handicap. @bestgrips @puttershoes Best Grips is a second generation family business specializing in golf grips! We are the home of the only made in the USA (Texas to be specific) genuine leather golf grips and head covers. No fancy words, pictures or endorsements with BestGrips.com, just the best performing golf grips money can buy! Check out the new site (www.bestgrips.com)! Use "golfspy" for free shipping on all U.S. orders over $50! What's in my BG custom club glove staff bag? Click here. Current ball of choice: 'Stones three three zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskey golf Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 +1 Anyone can benefit from a proper fitting and a great short game, regardless of skill or golf handicap. Right, what I was referring to was the extreme cases of club fitting. Such as having super tight specs such as head weight that pros may feel but many amateurs would not, ex. a couple of grams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acurro Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Obviously you have only been to fitters who probably use fitting carts etc. There are different levels of fitting, and "those guys" I mean the ones who give you the 20 minute fitting (fitting carts, golf pro's, Golf retail centers) make "Real Professional Fitters" guilty by association. My fittings usually last about 1.5 hours, where we have the client fill out a detailed questionaire. We then have the golfer hit his/her own clubs to give us a baseline. That is when we go to work. My studio has over 400 shafts with each one on connectors, with each an after-market shaft. Multiple vendors, who have multiple models, at multiple flexes, at multiple weights. Do you see where I am going with this. Also, good data is essential to a good fitting. I have a flightscope. and the data I take from each shot is spot-on. Data-driven results are where real professionals make a difference. Anyone can run a launch monitor. The real question is can they interpret the data. Find yourself a real fitter who does all of the above. Once you find someone who can give you a "next Level" fitting, you will never go back. As far as adjustibility and flo planes etc. Matrix has addressed this with their 16 sided technology, where the cpm varies no more than 2 cpm's no matter where you align the shaft. Most aftermarket shafts reach this level of precision. That is why they are priced $$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_divots Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I do have some of my iron sets SST pured or some woods spined and flo'd or SST. The consistency of shots is very good with these clubs. Alas, I have other sets that are not aligned and the net result is pretty much the same. Frequency matching kinda went out the window with taper tip iron shafts, didn't it? Unless you want to ream every iron set to .370 and then slope the shafts perfectly. I went to the effort of having a couple Ping tips aligned to a certain hosel setting. Then I decided I wanted to change it. LOL! What a sickness, this game. If I were to totally commit to one driver, I'd definitely have it aligned in the hosel setting I settled on. May as well remove every negative possible variable you can. Is the Cally adapter TWO independent cogs? The Titleists, you can change the face angle without affecting the loft, I believe. But the shaft will move if you want to adjust the loft. My RIP Phenom is still logo down, but I think its in the standard loft setting with a slightly open face angle. Bottom line: we can drive ourselves crazy with this stuff too! "Glute Activator" *Please accept my contributions of participation and intellectual property sharing as substitute for monetary renumeration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkev Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Obviously you have only been to fitters who probably use fitting carts etc. There are different levels of fitting, and "those guys" I mean the ones who give you the 20 minute fitting (fitting carts, golf pro's, Golf retail centers) make "Real Professional Fitters" guilty by association. My fittings usually last about 1.5 hours, where we have the client fill out a detailed questionaire. We then have the golfer hit his/her own clubs to give us a baseline. That is when we go to work. My studio has over 400 shafts with each one on connectors, with each an after-market shaft. Multiple vendors, who have multiple models, at multiple flexes, at multiple weights. Do you see where I am going with this. Also, good data is essential to a good fitting. I have a flightscope. and the data I take from each shot is spot-on. Data-driven results are where real professionals make a difference. Anyone can run a launch monitor. The real question is can they interpret the data. Find yourself a real fitter who does all of the above. Once you find someone who can give you a "next Level" fitting, you will never go back. As far as adjustibility and flo planes etc. Matrix has addressed this with their 16 sided technology, where the cpm varies no more than 2 cpm's no matter where you align the shaft. Most aftermarket shafts reach this level of precision. That is why they are priced $$$. Where are you located? And welcome please most often. Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60 Aldila R flex - 42.25 inches SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft Ping G410 7, 9 wood Alta 65 R flex Srixon ZX5 MK II 5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex India 52,56 (60 pending) UST recoil 75's R flex Evon roll ER 5 32 inches It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shambles Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I do have some of my iron sets SST pured or some woods spined and flo'd or SST. The consistency of shots is very good with these clubs. Alas, I have other sets that are not aligned and the net result is pretty much the same. Frequency matching kinda went out the window with taper tip iron shafts, didn't it? Unless you want to ream every iron set to .370 and then slope the shafts perfectly. I went to the effort of having a couple Ping tips aligned to a certain hosel setting. Then I decided I wanted to change it. LOL! What a sickness, this game. If I were to totally commit to one driver, I'd definitely have it aligned in the hosel setting I settled on. May as well remove every negative possible variable you can. Is the Cally adapter TWO independent cogs? The Titleists, you can change the face angle without affecting the loft, I believe. But the shaft will move if you want to adjust the loft. My RIP Phenom is still logo down, but I think its in the standard loft setting with a slightly open face angle. Bottom line: we can drive ourselves crazy with this stuff too! I agree. Bottom line for me is whatever my hands tell me. Shambles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acurro Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I am in upstate NY in the Albany, NY area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Outstanding job laddies! Perfect timing my Cobra Amp Cells are no longer being produced so it is time for me to try something new. Would be a twist to go back to the the first club I owned as a new set King Cobras. Steve Texas Graphite regular flex 12.2 hdcp Sláinte What’s in the bag: Driver: Callaway Hyper-X 10° with a Diamana Kai'li 70 S shaft Fairway: Wilson Staff D-100 hybrid 3 16°, Matrix OZIK Altus 5.6: 60 gram Utility: 7 Wood Custom Stainless – Knight Golf 24° Irons: Wilson Staff D-100 4-Pw. Gw, Sw, Matrix Studio 6.1 Graphite: 65 gram Wedges: Pinemeadow 64° and 68°, Alien 2 Pro Series 1 – 60°, PW, GW, & SW with set of D-100’s Putter: Current Hippo Attacker 1 Switching to: Gel Golf CNC milled insert putter (Sapphire model, Mallet style) Ball: Wilson Staff DUO/Z-Star/FG Tour Bag: Bag Boy - Revolver Backup Irons: King Cobra irons from the late 80’s 3-sw graphite regular flex shafts Whatever doesn’t kill me, had better start running!What’s in the bag:Driver: Callaway Hyper-X 10° with a Diamana Kai'li 70 S shaftFairway: Cobra AMP Cell 3-4 HYB: 4 plus = 21°, 4 plus Draw = 21° Draw, 4 = 22° *Utility: 7 Wood Custom Stainless – Knight Golf 24°Irons: Cobra AMP Cell Irons 5- Sw, MRC Graphite ShaftWedges: Pinemeadow 64° and 68°, Alien 2 Pro Series 1 – 60°, PW, GW, & SW in AMP Cell setPutter: Gel Golf CNC milled insert putter (Sapphire model, Mallet style)Ball: Titlest VelocityBag: Bag Boy - RevolverBackup Irons: King Cobra irons from the late 80’s 3-sw graphite regular flex shaftsWhatever doesn’t kill me, had better start running! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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