Debunk golf myths

[Mfrye]

Hello all,

 

I have been playing golf for the better part of 15 years, however I have never taken the sport seriously until the last two years or so. One thing I have noticed being out on the course alot more and playing with different people every time (my buddies don't play so I walk one as a single), is that there is a lot of questionable theories, tips, legends, and strategies.

 

So I hoping that you could share what you have heard over the years and what has actually worked and what was more Bullsh*t. It would be good to learn what to ignore out there and what to take as sound advice.

 

Some of the things that have come to mind are:

 

-Tee it up lower and hit it straight but shorter. (seen results)

 

-Greens break towards ocean on seaside courses and away from mountains on desert courses.

 

-Hitting the net next to a tee box is a redo. (might be course rules)

 

-The pros play balls unavailable to the public.

 

These are just a few that I can think of right now. so lets hear yours and the answers to these to help wade through the BS

 

Many Thanks

 

[hckymeyer]

Zinger once met someone better looking than himself

 

MBP once went an entire day without taking pictures

 

RP went a whole season without buying a club

 

T wrote an entire article without typo's

[hckymeyer]

Sorry, couldn't resist a little but.

 

Back on topic one of my favorites is that draws are longer than fades

[Sluggo42]

If your putt is short, odds are, it won't go in...

[RoverRick]

Some of the things that have come to mind are:

 

-Tee it up lower and hit it straight but shorter. (seen results)

 

-Greens break towards ocean on seaside courses and away from mountains on desert courses.

 

-Hitting the net next to a tee box is a redo. (might be course rules)

 

-The pros play balls unavailable to the public.

 

 

The putt always breaks down hill, and most of the time that is away from the mountain and towards the ocean or water, but not always.

 

Some pros play with an older version are maybe even a newer version of the same balls that are availible, or will be availible to the public.  Titleist is not going to make a ball and get USGA approval if they can not reap the financial rewards by selling it to the public.

 

If your putt is short, odds are, it won't go in...

 

More than 99.9% of the time.

 

"The shaft is the engine of the club"

 

The shaft is more like the transmission, the body is the engine.

 

Zinger once met someone better looking than himself

 

MBP once went an entire day without taking pictures

 

RP went a whole season without buying a club

 

T wrote an entire article without typo's

Zinger has never met any one he thought was better looking than himself.

 

RP has never gone a season without buying a club.  This is totally not true and whom ever told you that was as wrong as they could be.

 

Sadly, they others, that hckymeyer noted, may be true.

[revkev]

Great topic and Rick gave the right answers except that he didn't address the tee one. Let's start with driver. BS is all I can say. Many people have a tee height they are comfortable with. Find the one that works best for you. The rest of the clubs are built for hitting the ball off the turf so lower is better, just on top of the grass.

[Mfrye]

As far as the shafts go, what is the main difference of flex. I just an RBZ with the stiff flex and it feels like I am getting more behind it that the regular flex I tried in the store. Is it more of a personal preference or is there real performance improvements/adjustments with the different flex varieties.

 

With the break of the put I noticed it to be somewhat true. I played Torrey about two weeks ago (where I heard the tip) and was reading the putt R2L about three cups off. the ocean was on the right, I hit it clean right on the line i wanted and it leaked a cup to the Right. My thought is its just the perception when you have wide open area like that it will throw off the read.

[RoverRick]

Before the rebuild last year of 10 holes on my course, the 17th which is right next to the lake was canted way from the the water but had a drainage area between the green and the bunker.  I would hear people all the time recite that old adage of the green slopes to the water.  They would putt and be astonished that it broke away from the lake but you could go down below the green and look at it and clearly see where the slope was.

 

Another one is look at the surrounding terrain and see which way the green slopes.

 

The designer of our course intentionally slopes the green in one direction and put moguls and bunkers in after the fact, not really after because the surrounding area was built first.  The point is that on holes like number 4 the surrounding terrain slopes from back to front but the green slopes left to right.  Number 5 is built on a hill facing the fairway, yet the green slopes to the back.  There i always an outlet for the water, so the one truth in reading greens is the drain is on the low side of the green.  (Unless there is a puddle of water there.)

[DanUsh]

As far as the myth about holes sloping towards water is not true.  The break has to do with how the grain of the grass grows towards water which can cause it to break less or more just like the grain of any green.  I caddied the Pro Am of the Shop Rite classic two years ago and by my fourth loop I was able to judge the break with greater accuracy for the holes along the water because of which way the grain was growing.  

[RoverRick]

-Hitting the net next to a tee box is a redo. (might be course rules)

 

I skipped this earlier but there can be a local rule stating that you must rehit if you strike the net.  There can not be a local rule that allows you to rehit if you so desire.  Like a power line, you can make a rule if it does not conflict with appendix I.  Decision 33-8/13 specifically addresses power lines and I guess a net would also work if it was not an out of bounds net.  I would think it was part of an out of bounds net but I guess they could put up a net to protect something and then inact a local rule requiring you to rehit if you strike the net.

[whiskey golf]

Someone answer this, I call BS. I heard this one from a PGA Professional, same guy who sold me counterfeit clubs. They said if you hit the ball on the toe or heel that it will put sidespin on the ball and make the ball go more towards the hole on a breaking putt. 

[Sluggo42]

Ask lee Trevino... But yes, you can cut a putt

[RoverRick]

Ask lee Trevino... But yes, you can cut a putt

 

Someone answer this, I call BS. I heard this one from a PGA Professional, same guy who sold me counterfeit clubs. They said if you hit the ball on the toe or heel that it will put sidespin on the ball and make the ball go more towards the hole on a breaking putt. 

 

I seriously doubt it was Lee Travino who sold Westy some counterfit clubs.

 

Lee may be able to cut a putt and have it go where he wants but I would think that we should avoid doing this.  The same principle will apply to a ball on the ground as in the air though.  A glancing blow with a putter will give the ball side spin but the ground offers considerably more resistance than the air so after the first few feet the side spin will probably stop and the normal roll will take over.

 

I think I have seen this, unitentionally, when people have putted the ball.

[RookieBlue7]

Some pros play with an older version are maybe even a newer version of the same balls that are availible, or will be availible to the public. Titleist is not going to make a ball and get USGA approval if they can not reap the financial rewards by selling it to the public.

Wrong, there are plenty of balls out there that the public can't get their hands on unless they know someone on the tour van. Just check the conforming ball list for those. There are plenty of prototypes made specifically for players.

 

When Tiger first went to Nike, they had a ball that was specifically his ball. The public begged and begged and begged for it to be released. They eventually did release that ball to prove a point ( and sold a ton of them). The Tour Accuracy TW. I had a few dozen of them I got from a friend that was a nike rep. They made their point with the public, too. They didn't go as far. Why? The core was much former and Joe Schmoe couldn't fully compress it. Tiger and Rory both are playing prototypes right now. There are 21 versions of the Nike 20XI out there right now.

[Sluggo42]

I remember once hearing lee couldn't make a,straight putt, so he would put a little cut on it. Good for you and me? Uh, probably not...

[RookieBlue7]

A favorite of mine is when people say that slices and hooks are a result of side spin. No, side spin doesn't exist in golf, there is only back spin. You can not spin the ball 2 directions at once. The thing that causes slices or hooks (or cuts and draws) is backspin being tilted on it's axis.

[BIG STU]

Great topic and Rick gave the right answers except that he didn't address the tee one. Let's start with driver. BS is all I can say. Many people have a tee height they are comfortable with. Find the one that works best for you. The rest of the clubs are built for hitting the ball off the turf so lower is better, just on top of the grass.

Rev you are correct on the tee height. I still tee at the "traditional" height that I did when I hit persimmon drivers

[BIG STU]

Someone answer this, I call BS. I heard this one from a PGA Professional, same guy who sold me counterfeit clubs. They said if you hit the ball on the toe or heel that it will put sidespin on the ball and make the ball go more towards the hole on a breaking putt. 

If this guy knowingly sold you counterfeit clubs he aint much of a PGA professional. In fact if he is caught red handed he can loose his card . The PGA has morals clauses he can be kicked out for "conduct unbecoming"  A guy that I know down here lost his card last year for being arrested and convicted of a serious felony involving drug manufacturing

[Blade]

What a great thread! This is one that can grow legs and run on its own. If it had been here longer, it would be up for thread of the year.

 

For myths... RP and Rick stole mine. But another I hear sometimes is that with irons, you pinch the ball against the turf at impact. BS. That's called a topped shot and we all know the result of that.

 

With perfect impact conditions, the shaft is leaning forward, the club head is descending slightly. The leading edge of the club is definitely coming in below the equator of the ball, ideally it's at the same level as the bottom of the ball. The loft of the club is pointed up, away from the ground. The ball initially starts to slide up the face until enough friction builds up and it starts to roll before it rebounds off. That's what creates the backspin.

 

At no point in that process, that only lasts for milliseconds, does the ball get pushed in a downward direction. Someone may feel like they're pinching the ball against the turf. But it's not happening. High speed video has proven that thousands of times. But you'll still hear people say that's what happens.

[revkev]

As far as the shafts go, what is the main difference of flex. I just an RBZ with the stiff flex and it feels like I am getting more behind it that the regular flex I tried in the store. Is it more of a personal preference or is there real performance improvements/adjustments with the different flex varieties.

 

With the break of the put I noticed it to be somewhat true. I played Torrey about two weeks ago (where I heard the tip) and was reading the putt R2L about three cups off. the ocean was on the right, I hit it clean right on the line i wanted and it leaked a cup to the Right. My thought is its just the perception when you have wide open area like that it will throw off the read.

I wanted to touch on the shaft thing for you. Here's a great myth. Faster swingers should use S flex shafts and slower R. The reality is that there is no uniform standard for golf equipment. Even the loft on the club is suspect. Also the proper shaft flex and weight may change based on your transition or angle of attack. You need to go get fitted before buying clubs. If you are a 14 without a properly fitted set you'll be an 11 with one.

[Rickles]

I want to speak about Whiskey's myth. The deal about sidespin while putting. Dave pelz talks about the physics of this in the putting bible. I also heard a lecture talking about this. A golf ball only has spin on it for the first couple of feet. It gets slightly airborn and then bounces a couple times on the green. Then it starts rolling forward, At that point the ball is rolling and it is all the physics of the grass and the greens break. Any spin the ball had only effects that very small fraction of the putts total length at the very beginning while bouncing. It has almost no effect.

 

What does have effect on the putts direction is the way one opens or closes the face relative to the target line. Having the face only a few degrees open or closed can result in a missed putt form 5 feet. Not because of spin but just because the ball starts on the wrong line. Swing path has less effect on a putt's starting direction than face angle. In other words your path can be off a little but as long as your putter face is square to the intended line at impact your ball will go pretty close to where you aimed.

 

The next factor is sweet spot contact. If you miss the center of the clubface two things happen. First, less force is imparted to the putt. It will not roll as far with the same length stroke as a putt with correct sweet spot contact.

Second, missing the sweet spot causes the face to be knocked open if the putt is struck toward the toe and closed if the putt is struck toward the heel.

 

Dave Pelz used these factors as a way to cheat on short breaking putts; like 3-5 footers. If the putt is a left breaker you can purposely putt the ball a little toward the toe (say like a half inch.) Then if you miss hit the putt it works in your favor. If you strike the putt a little left of where you wanted to make contact on the face, you hit the sweet spot and the putt goes the correct speed on the line you intended and goes into the hole. If you miss and contact the face to the right, further toward the toe, the ball comes off the face slightly right of your intended line because the face rolls open a little because of the toe contact then it comes off softer because you miss the sweet spot. Less speed causes the putt to break more left and you still make the putt.

 

That means you can cheat on your short side hillers. If it breaks right aim for contact a little towards the heel, if it breaks left aim for contact a little towards the toe.

 

Lots of older pros talk about cutting (Lee Trevino) and hooking (Bobby Locke) putts. It isn't actually cutting or hooking. It is just people who are so good and so well practiced that they learned how to compensate for a closed or open face relative to their swing path. If they open or close the face the same way everytime they can learn to compensate for the ball starting left or right.

 

Rant/dissertation complete!

[Mfrye]

Rickles, the last paragraph answered my whole debate with the cutting a put issue. Why would you cut a putt!!! there is no need to get fancy with it just roll it true and straight, I'm sure the older pros had practiced years to do it to compesate for issues translated from a full swing. but for us reading the line getting speed and hitting square is what we should be concentrating on.

 

Now heres another myth/ promo thing i heard. "clone clubs preform to standard of brand name!" I will be straight forward and say I am cheap, I don't like spending a lot of money on clubs. I get the "you get what you pay for mentality. The first set of clubs that I bought for my self is a from a brand called Pinemeadow golf. Since they are the first set of uniform clubs I have I think they are awesome. they preform well they feel good to me and I am comfortable with them. that being said why would I go out and drop $400 for an Iron set? kinda of two topics to cover in there: how do quality of clone clubs compare? and why would I need to purchase new clubs if what I have works for me?

 

Thanks for the involvement here, it's good the here some of the BS being called out so I can just ignore that out there.

[hckymeyer]

Rickles, the last paragraph answered my whole debate with the cutting a put issue. Why would you cut a putt!!! there is no need to get fancy with it just roll it true and straight, I'm sure the older pros had practiced years to do it to compesate for issues translated from a full swing. but for us reading the line getting speed and hitting square is what we should be concentrating on.

 

Now heres another myth/ promo thing i heard. "clone clubs preform to standard of brand name!" I will be straight forward and say I am cheap, I don't like spending a lot of money on clubs. I get the "you get what you pay for mentality. The first set of clubs that I bought for my self is a from a brand called Pinemeadow golf. Since they are the first set of uniform clubs I have I think they are awesome. they preform well they feel good to me and I am comfortable with them. that being said why would I go out and drop $400 for an Iron set? kinda of two topics to cover in there: how do quality of clone clubs compare? and why would I need to purchase new clubs if what I have works for me?

 

Thanks for the involvement here, it's good the here some of the BS being called out so I can just ignore that out there.

For the clone clubs question this article from MGS does a great job of summing everything up.  http://www.mygolfspy.com/clone-golf-clubs-vs-name-brand/

 

For the 2nd part if your clubs are working for you then there is no reason you need to purchase new clubs.  Most of us are just plain club hoes around here and like trying new stuff, but if you are happy with what you have there is no reason to get new stuff. 

 

A couple comments for you though.  If you haven't been fit for your current set of clubs I would highly recommend doing so.  Even if you are happy with them, they may not be performing as well as they could for you.  You don't have to purchase new clubs to get fit, there are a lot of adjustments you can make to your existing clubs that might get you more performance out of them.

 

Lastly the whole clone vs "real deal" clubs argument is usually about price.  Personally I think you can find such good deals on used clubs that are still in great shape that I would rather buy a good condition used set that is a couple years old over buying clone clubs that you have no idea what the quality will end up being.  You'd be amazed what you can pick up for a couple hundred bucks. 

[whiskey golf]

If this guy knowingly sold you counterfeit clubs he aint much of a PGA professional. In fact if he is caught red handed he can loose his card . The PGA has morals clauses he can be kicked out for "conduct unbecoming"  A guy that I know down here lost his card last year for being arrested and convicted of a serious felony involving drug manufacturing

 

 

Dude, This guy doesn't sound like a Class A, he sounds like a Classless A-hole....

 

Counterfeit clubs?

 

Seriously?

 

I believe ya, I'm just sayin that I'd steer clear of him, his clubs and his half ass advice.

 

Rick nailed it. Just concentrate on putting a solid stroke on the ball and letting your read take care of any directional chamges(breaks).

 

Besides, spin is determined by angle at impact and swing path versus where on the putter face that you impact the ball.

 

Take care

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

 

Yeah that guy was bad, turns out from what I heard that I wasn't the only one who was sold counterfeit clubs. I think he even sold other counterfeit items not golf related. He hinted at it before and the whole club issue confirmed suspicions. He later got fired but for a whole different reason, something with being on bad terms with management. I thought I started a thread on counterfeit clubs but I can't seem to find it, I explained the story there in a bit better detail. 

[BIG STU]

I wanted to touch on the shaft thing for you. Here's a great myth. Faster swingers should use S flex shafts and slower R. The reality is that there is no uniform standard for golf equipment. Even the loft on the club is suspect. Also the proper shaft flex and weight may change based on your transition or angle of attack. You need to go get fitted before buying clubs. If you are a 14 without a properly fitted set you'll be an 11 with one.

I will add something to this also. It depends on the shaft and how the shaft was tipped when the club was built. Also some manufacturers go by different frequencies when determining the stiffness factors. I use my friend's frequency machine all the time and it has really enlightened me to this. I have seen variations of 10 to 12 points on stock factory uncut shafts in one shipment of 10 shafts

[BIG STU]

It truly broke my heart when I learned that this was indeed a myth, more so than when I learned that there was no Santa

 

The Myth: GOLF is the acronym for "Gentleman Only- Ladies Forbidden"

 

 

Fairways & Greens My Friends

LMAO Careful RP you might get taken off Mrs MBPs Christmas card list.

OOPS! I misread that sorry maybe you are still on that list but what the heck I just could not resist trying to get one on you

[BIG STU]

Rickles, the last paragraph answered my whole debate with the cutting a put issue. Why would you cut a putt!!! there is no need to get fancy with it just roll it true and straight, I'm sure the older pros had practiced years to do it to compesate for issues translated from a full swing. but for us reading the line getting speed and hitting square is what we should be concentrating on.

 

Now heres another myth/ promo thing i heard. "clone clubs preform to standard of brand name!" I will be straight forward and say I am cheap, I don't like spending a lot of money on clubs. I get the "you get what you pay for mentality. The first set of clubs that I bought for my self is a from a brand called Pinemeadow golf. Since they are the first set of uniform clubs I have I think they are awesome. they preform well they feel good to me and I am comfortable with them. that being said why would I go out and drop $400 for an Iron set? kinda of two topics to cover in there: how do quality of clone clubs compare? and why would I need to purchase new clubs if what I have works for me?

 

Thanks for the involvement here, it's good the here some of the BS being called out so I can just ignore that out there.

I just built a set of KB Tours for a customer of mine He purchased the heads from Trident pretty cheap. He got a deal on some UST graphite shafts. Those heads are a Ping clone. I did work on the shafts quite a bit frequency matching them. We took them out and hit them before the rain came yesterday and they hit good he was happy. The shaft makes a big difference and being properly fit for you is a main factor. Over the years I have built quite a few sets of the Cally x-22 clones for people and fine tuned them so to speak and they have performed well

[Mfrye]

Then what makes Cleveland the top wedge manufacturer? What is so stand out about Cleveland over Ping wedges or any other brands?

 

If there is not a noticeable difference what makes them so popular??

[Mfrye]

I Also hear a lot of people talking about getting their clubs fitted. what exactly does that mean? What's the point of doing a club fitting

 

Fitting is something that is always talked about but is never really addressed as far as what it involved. Is it face angle opened or closed? Or loft adjustment? or what options is there?

[Mfrye]

What a great thread! This is one that can grow legs and run on its own. If it had been here longer, it would be up for thread of the year.

 

For myths... RP and Rick stole mine. But another I hear sometimes is that with irons, you pinch the ball against the turf at impact. BS. That's called a topped shot and we all know the result of that.

 

With perfect impact conditions, the shaft is leaning forward, the club head is descending slightly. The leading edge of the club is definitely coming in below the equator of the ball, ideally it's at the same level as the bottom of the ball. The loft of the club is pointed up, away from the ground. The ball initially starts to slide up the face until enough friction builds up and it starts to roll before it rebounds off. That's what creates the backspin.

 

At no point in that process, that only lasts for milliseconds, does the ball get pushed in a downward direction. Someone may feel like they're pinching the ball against the turf. But it's not happening. High speed video has proven that thousands of times. But you'll still hear people say that's what happens.

Lets make it a dark horse for thread of the year!! I could really use a jet speed driver and some MGS gear to wear!!