Debunk golf myths

[Mr_Theoo]

I Also hear a lot of people talking about getting their clubs fitted. what exactly does that mean? What's the point of doing a club fitting

 

Fitting is something that is always talked about but is never really addressed as far as what it involved. Is it face angle opened or closed? Or loft adjustment? or what options is there?

 

Getting fitted can be as simple as finding the right shaft flex to as complex as figuring out optimal spin rates, launch angle, loft, lie. the list can go on and on. But getting fitted for your clubs is very important because you want to make sure that the clubs you play are fitted as best to your swing as possible.

[RoverRick]

FORGED IRONS ARE SOFTER AND PROVIDE BETTER FEEL THAN CAST IRONS

 

The term "forged" versus "cast" simply refers to the manufacturing process used to form the shape of the head of an iron, nothing more.

 

 

 

A big reason that there is a difference in "feel" between a cast iron and a forged iron is that it is truly not an "apples to apples" comparison. Most of the GI & SGI irons are cast, while the "Players" irons, both CB's and MB's, are forged and are of different designs, shapes & specs, amongst a myriad of other differences, so of course they're going to "feel" different, lol.

 

If you take a cast iron and a forged iron of exactly the same shape & weight distribution, the same loft, the same center of gravity in both heads, and the heads have the same shafts, same grip & same length, along with the same offset, swing weight & MOI, hitting the same ball from the same area, 98-99% of golfers, Pro or Amateur, will never be able to tell the difference.

 

Most of the remaining 1-2% want to believe that the forged iron will be softer in feel due to the carbon steel used in a typical forging, which is a "softer" metal, but scientific research has shown that the "hardness" difference in a metal alone is not enough to create a difference in impact "feel."

 

The biggest difference in the "feel" of cast vs. forged has to do with the metal that is used.  The material used in a forged iron is typically a high carbon steel.  Although Titleist has forged some lines of their irons out of stainless.  This is because this metal is easier to "work" or forge.  Cast clubs, typically have chromiurm added to it making it stainless steel.  The reason for this is that stainless steel in its molten state flows better and fills voids better than carbon steel.  Stainless steel is not as easy a metal to "work" with when forging and is in fact a harder metal.

 

No amount of engineering can make a cast club softer than a forged club.  However, that is not saying that you can not make a cast club, using a harder metal, "feel" softer than a forged club.  Ping uses elstomer thermoplastics to make their irons feel softer. 

 

A cast iron will certainly last longer than a forged iron. 

[Mfrye]

Now to easily understand what you mean by feel lets look at putters, the odyssey putters feel a whole lot smoother than the current putter I have what makes that difference?

[RoverRick]

Now to easily understand what you mean by feel lets look at putters, the odyssey putters feel a whole lot smoother than the current putter I have what makes that difference?

 

True,  There is no real way to quantify "feel".  Forged Irons never felt "soft" to me at all.  They feel more "solid."  Yes, I realize I did not answer your question.

 

Odyssey putters, at least the two I have owned, have elastomer faces on them.  They add distance to the putt for me, which is not always desirable.  I prefer the Scotty Camerons with either a GSS face or made of soft steel like my current Coronado. 

 

Obviously, since Odyssey has sold more than a few, Ping also makes insert putters, and in a recent MGS survey, last I checked it was about 50/50 on which was more popular insert or no insert.  I think that no insert rolls smoother and insert putters are more clicky.  However, feel in putters, like cast versus forged is simply too subjective to make one right and one wrong.

[GolfSpy Dave]

Here's my favorite myth from my former instructor.

 

High handicap players play better with SGI or GI irons.

 

I've got Data even!

http://www.mygolfspy.com/second-guesses-did-you-make-the-right-decision-on-those-new-irons/

[Mfrye]

LMFAO, what, a $275 pair of once worn Maui Jim sunglasses isn't enough, lol?

 

It may not beat the driver, but it sure beats the hell out of 2nd prize, LMAO.

 

Unless, of course, you wanna take your shot at gettin nominated and roll the dice in the Thread of The Year Contest and withdraw from the "Newbie" thread contest, lol

 

 

Fairways & Greens My Friend,

Richard

Lol I'm not gonna lie Richard I'm not much of a sunglasses type of person. If I do get sunglasses they are the cheap ones from a gas station so if I lose em I don't worry about it. I started this thread because I was hearing a lot of bs out there.

I appreciate being the front runner for them, it's great that I started something that people are getting involved with.

[Sluggo42]

LMFAO, what, a $275 pair of once worn Maui Jim sunglasses isn't enough, lol?

It may not beat the driver, but it sure beats the hell out of 2nd prize, LMAO.

Unless, of course, you wanna take your shot at gettin nominated and roll the dice in the Thread of The Year Contest and withdraw from the "Newbie" thread contest, lol

Fairways & Greens My Friend,

Richard

Maui Jim's?

Aren't I still a,newbie? Hahaha

[The Dansome]

Zinger once met someone better looking than himself

 

MBP once went an entire day without taking pictures

 

RP went a whole season without buying a club

 

T wrote an entire article without typo's

 

I've taken 4 today already!

[revkev]

I Also hear a lot of people talking about getting their clubs fitted. what exactly does that mean? What's the point of doing a club fitting

Fitting is something that is always talked about but is never really addressed as far as what it involved. Is it face angle opened or closed? Or loft adjustment? or what options is there?

At the very least you want to have the length, lie, shaft and grips of your clubs properly fit. If the lie on your irons is off you could make perfectly good swings and have poor results.

 

Consider it and see.

 

I saw the myth on GI vs non GI. Correct the testing I've seen suggests that everyone would benefit from using GI irons.

[RoverRick]

MYTH: ACCURACY TRUMPS DISTANCE/BUBBA'S A WILD MAN WHO's 8i APPROACH SHOT @ AUGUSTA IS HIS TYPICAL LIE & APPROACH SHOT

 

And here's what I found-

 

2013 Tour Driving Distances:

 

1)Bubba.........315.5yds

2)C. Beljan.....311.6yds

3)R. Garrigus...310.3yds

4)Dustin........310.2yds

5)Rory..........310.1yds

 

Zach came in at 105th(283.9yds)-

 

Now, let's look at what these five guys did in 2013-

 

They combined for 7 victories, 8 runner-ups & an INCREDIBLE 37 top 10's! Only Garrigus didn't visit the winner's circle, and he got an amazing FOUR runner-ups, lol.

 

Now in fairness, Zach had 8 top ten's in '13, so he more than held his own. However let's not forget that with a one stroke lead standing on #18, he bogied the same whole the Spieth birdied to force the three way play-off that he lost to Spieth. He also lost a first round lead in The Open after firin a 65, to finish sixth. Not dog meat by any stretch, though he's not exactly gonna carry the tag as "The Closer" anytime soon, lol.

 

It was much more than just Bubba's distance versus Zach's distance.  It went into approach to the game.  Those four you listed less Bubba accounted for 7 victories and 8 runner ups, and 27 top ten's.  Those guys that you listed have all laid up many times last season.  I remember just in the last couple of weeks, Dustin hitting 4 iron off the tee on the 18th to ensure his victory.

 

Power is awesome, but know when to apply it is the key.

[EJ Mac]

This one holds true as a total myth for me but others mileage may vary. A higher lofted driver and higher launch angle will result in more distance. Total BS for me currently with what is in my stable. My 9.5 will go farther than my 12*.

[Mfrye]

I agree that it is approach to the game, If you go out there and try to reach every par 5 in two, your gonna have a bad time(insert southpark meme), and a high score. As where playing a smarter game more often than not will result in a lower score.

[revkev]

I'm chomping at the bit on this one. I think that old saying of driving for show and putting for dough is the biggest myth ever although it was correct in its original context.

 

The Zach vs Bubba comp doesn't apply because we are talking long versus ridiculously long. Like the guy with a 90 mph fastball who gets guys out Zach is long enough to handle the courses he plays.

 

So let's talk us. One of the golf publications did a study a few years back about the difference between Us and touring pros and the biggest difference was........... Distance! Opus able distance matters allot. From what Richard describes the 25 yards he has on his doc is the difference between his 2 and the docs 8. Can I keep up with guys who hit the ball longer than I do. Most times yes but only because my distance is serviceable and I'm better at other things. In the end though I have no margin for error if something else goes south.

 

At any level usable distance is a big deal.

[Tony Covey MGS]

Hello all,

 

I have been playing golf for the better part of 15 years, however I have never taken the sport seriously until the last two years or so. One thing I have noticed being out on the course alot more and playing with different people every time (my buddies don't play so I walk one as a single), is that there is a lot of questionable theories, tips, legends, and strategies.

 

So I hoping that you could share what you have heard over the years and what has actually worked and what was more Bullsh*t. It would be good to learn what to ignore out there and what to take as sound advice.

 

Some of the things that have come to mind are:

 

-Tee it up lower and hit it straight but shorter. (seen results)

 

-Greens break towards ocean on seaside courses and away from mountains on desert courses.

 

-Hitting the net next to a tee box is a redo. (might be course rules)

 

-The pros play balls unavailable to the public.

 

These are just a few that I can think of right now. so lets hear yours and the answers to these to help wade through the BS

 

Many Thanks

 

Jumping in late here, but there are few I want to respond to, so lets start here:

 

Teeing it up lower - really depends on your swing. Teeing it lowers your impact point along the swing arc, and that can effect angle of attack. Generally that result will be, depending on your perspective, to promote a fade, or reduce a hook. In theory, finding the "best" tee height for your swing should promote a straighter shot, but lower itself does not mean straighter.

 

While grain and cut do influence the direction of the putt (most generally as the ball slows), when commentators talk about breaking towards the ocean, or away from the mountains, and all of that crap, really what they're talking about is gravity. Things roll down hill.

 

Some pros play ball unavailable to the public. I'd venture to say that nobody in golf does more one-off prototyping than Nike, and they do more of it for Tiger than anyone. So yeah...the RZN ball that Tiger is testing isn't the one that you'll be able to buy next month.

 

Some Titleist guys play prototypes, or older balls, but again, nobody cooks up as many one-offs as Nike.

[Tony Covey MGS]

This one holds true as a total myth for me but others mileage may vary. A higher lofted driver and higher launch angle will result in more distance. Total BS for me currently with what is in my stable. My 9.5 will go farther than my 12*.

 

As with most everything else in golf, it depends on your swing. Optimum distance is tied to several variables, but it all starts with Angle of Attack (likely the most overlooked of all fitting variables). Generally speaking (we'll leave dynamic loft and spin loft discussions for another day), the more negative your angle of attack, the less loft you'll want to obtain maximum results.

 

Looking at Trackman Carry optimization charts for a 100MPH Swing Speed:

 

If you have a strongly negative angle of attack (-5°) optimum launch angle is 9.6°. For a level (0°) AoA, optimum is 12.1°, and for strongly positive (+5°), it's 14.9°. So if you are seeing better results with lower launch, it's almost certainly related to your angle of attack.

 

Higher launch is actually better.

 

According to Trackman's numbers, the difference between the 9.6° guy and the 14.9° guy is 25 yards. But here's the rub, 14.9° is only better at 100MPH if you can achieve the requisite angle of attack. If you're launching at 14.9° with a negative AoA then your spin loft (what Trackman calls the very definition of compression) is going to be much higher than what's optimum, and you will actually loose distance. Of course, if you're hitting down on the ball with your driver, ideal to ideal, you're also losing potential distance (even though you've optimized your launch based on your AoA).

[Tony Covey MGS]

At the very least you want to have the length, lie, shaft and grips of your clubs properly fit. If the lie on your irons is off you could make perfectly good swings and have poor results.

 

Consider it and see.

 

I saw the myth on GI vs non GI. Correct the testing I've seen suggests that everyone would benefit from using GI irons.

 

The idea of fitting grips actually dates back to a time when people believed that to hit a draw you had to turn the club over, and roll through at impact. The thinking at the time was that grips that were too large impeded the ability to turn the ball over.

 

Since we now know that "turning the ball over" is nonsense, grip fitting is more about finding what's comfortable, and to an extent can help quiet the hands (keep you from trying to turn the ball over). We're starting to see that guys are actually hitting more consistent shots with grips that were once considered too large.

[Tony Covey MGS]

True,  There is no real way to quantify "feel".  Forged Irons never felt "soft" to me at all.  They feel more "solid."  Yes, I realize I did not answer your question.

 

 

Actually, feel is wholly quantifiable. Feel is sound (impact...vibration...it's all frequency, and frequency is quantifiable). It's really that simple. If I put ear protection on your head, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a Pro V1 and Top Flight from circa 2003. Feel is derived directly from frequency, so we can absolutely quantify the frequency that occurs when object A (the club) impacts with object B (the ball).

After that...yeah...wholly subjective. Just like anything else in this world, within the golf realm, there are sounds we respond to positively, and sounds we find more objectionable, and those distinctions are unique to each individual, but the basis for the sound(fee) itself can absolutely be measured.

[Tony Covey MGS]

I will add something to this also. It depends on the shaft and how the shaft was tipped when the club was built. Also some manufacturers go by different frequencies when determining the stiffness factors. I use my friend's frequency machine all the time and it has really enlightened me to this. I have seen variations of 10 to 12 points on stock factory uncut shafts in one shipment of 10 shafts

 

It's almost funny that so many view swing speed as the single most important (and often the only) determining factor in fitting for flex (and to a lesser extent weight - when weight is even considered).

 

I've seen it time and time again, general tempo and the transition from the top, I've found, play a much more substantial role in determining the proper flex (allowing for differences from shaft to shaft). I've seen 105MPH guys swing so smoothly that they get their best results in regular flex drivers, and I've seen 90MPH guys who transition so violently (or do other crazy things in their swing) where X-flex actually provides better results.

 

Once you leave the realm of quantifiable physics (ball flight), there are basically no absolutes when it comes to fitting.

[Rickles]

T is coming through with the goods. I love the quantifiable science. Bust them myths T!

[revkev]

T's comments epitomize this site. Because I've been here for a couple of years I know this answers. Thanks! This is the golf myth buster site for sure.

[Kor.A.Door]

A favorite of mine is when people say that slices and hooks are a result of side spin. No, side spin doesn't exist in golf, there is only back spin. You can not spin the ball 2 directions at once. The thing that causes slices or hooks (or cuts and draws) is backspin being tilted on it's axis.

The other day on morning drive, John Cook, whom i believe, payed professional golf, talked about sidespin on the ball. its just easier to explain spin the ball as backspin or sidespin.

[Sluggo42]

Let's call it backspin on a sideways axis

[Blade]

The ball can only spin one way. The axis is just tilted. I would think most people realize that. They're just used to hearing sidespin to describe it I guess.

[revkev]

The ball can only spin one way. The axis is just tilted. I would think most people realize that. They're just used to hearing sidespin to describe it I guess.

I don't think they do and Srixon bets it's ever loving golf ball life that they don't.

 

John cook knows how to control spin regardless of whether or not he understands it.

[MattF]

The other day on morning drive, John Cook, whom i believe, payed professional golf,

 

Still does play, very successfully, on the Champions tour.

[Lonnie96]

The other day on morning drive, John Cook, whom i believe, payed professional golf, talked about sidespin on the ball. its just easier to explain spin the ball as backspin or sidespin.

Never learn from the golf channel..IMO..learn from a local pro.

[Kor.A.Door]

my point to the backspin vs sidespin is that whether or not it is actually sisdespin, everyone in golf including the pro's call it sidespin.

 

Not to high jack a thread, so this is my last post on the subject of side spin in here.

[revkev]

my point to the backspin vs sidespin is that whether or not it is actually sisdespin, everyone in golf including the pro's call it sidespin.

Not to high jack a thread, so this is my last post on the subject of side spin in here.

That's a reasonable point but I think it also proves the myth. It also leads people to believe there may be multiple types of spin going on at the same time. Don't laugh I know any number of people who think this is the case.