Debunk golf myths

[Rickles]

I want to speak about Whiskey's myth. The deal about sidespin while putting. Dave pelz talks about the physics of this in the putting bible. I also heard a lecture talking about this. A golf ball only has spin on it for the first couple of feet. It gets slightly airborn and then bounces a couple times on the green. Then it starts rolling forward, At that point the ball is rolling and it is all the physics of the grass and the greens break. Any spin the ball had only effects that very small fraction of the putts total length at the very beginning while bouncing. It has almost no effect.

 

What does have effect on the putts direction is the way one opens or closes the face relative to the target line. Having the face only a few degrees open or closed can result in a missed putt form 5 feet. Not because of spin but just because the ball starts on the wrong line. Swing path has less effect on a putt's starting direction than face angle. In other words your path can be off a little but as long as your putter face is square to the intended line at impact your ball will go pretty close to where you aimed.

 

The next factor is sweet spot contact. If you miss the center of the clubface two things happen. First, less force is imparted to the putt. It will not roll as far with the same length stroke as a putt with correct sweet spot contact.

Second, missing the sweet spot causes the face to be knocked open if the putt is struck toward the toe and closed if the putt is struck toward the heel.

 

Dave Pelz used these factors as a way to cheat on short breaking putts; like 3-5 footers. If the putt is a left breaker you can purposely putt the ball a little toward the toe (say like a half inch.) Then if you miss hit the putt it works in your favor. If you strike the putt a little left of where you wanted to make contact on the face, you hit the sweet spot and the putt goes the correct speed on the line you intended and goes into the hole. If you miss and contact the face to the right, further toward the toe, the ball comes off the face slightly right of your intended line because the face rolls open a little because of the toe contact then it comes off softer because you miss the sweet spot. Less speed causes the putt to break more left and you still make the putt.

 

That means you can cheat on your short side hillers. If it breaks right aim for contact a little towards the heel, if it breaks left aim for contact a little towards the toe.

 

Lots of older pros talk about cutting (Lee Trevino) and hooking (Bobby Locke) putts. It isn't actually cutting or hooking. It is just people who are so good and so well practiced that they learned how to compensate for a closed or open face relative to their swing path. If they open or close the face the same way everytime they can learn to compensate for the ball starting left or right.

 

Rant/dissertation complete!

[Mfrye]

Rickles, the last paragraph answered my whole debate with the cutting a put issue. Why would you cut a putt!!! there is no need to get fancy with it just roll it true and straight, I'm sure the older pros had practiced years to do it to compesate for issues translated from a full swing. but for us reading the line getting speed and hitting square is what we should be concentrating on.

 

Now heres another myth/ promo thing i heard. "clone clubs preform to standard of brand name!" I will be straight forward and say I am cheap, I don't like spending a lot of money on clubs. I get the "you get what you pay for mentality. The first set of clubs that I bought for my self is a from a brand called Pinemeadow golf. Since they are the first set of uniform clubs I have I think they are awesome. they preform well they feel good to me and I am comfortable with them. that being said why would I go out and drop $400 for an Iron set? kinda of two topics to cover in there: how do quality of clone clubs compare? and why would I need to purchase new clubs if what I have works for me?

 

Thanks for the involvement here, it's good the here some of the BS being called out so I can just ignore that out there.

[hckymeyer]

Rickles, the last paragraph answered my whole debate with the cutting a put issue. Why would you cut a putt!!! there is no need to get fancy with it just roll it true and straight, I'm sure the older pros had practiced years to do it to compesate for issues translated from a full swing. but for us reading the line getting speed and hitting square is what we should be concentrating on.

 

Now heres another myth/ promo thing i heard. "clone clubs preform to standard of brand name!" I will be straight forward and say I am cheap, I don't like spending a lot of money on clubs. I get the "you get what you pay for mentality. The first set of clubs that I bought for my self is a from a brand called Pinemeadow golf. Since they are the first set of uniform clubs I have I think they are awesome. they preform well they feel good to me and I am comfortable with them. that being said why would I go out and drop $400 for an Iron set? kinda of two topics to cover in there: how do quality of clone clubs compare? and why would I need to purchase new clubs if what I have works for me?

 

Thanks for the involvement here, it's good the here some of the BS being called out so I can just ignore that out there.

For the clone clubs question this article from MGS does a great job of summing everything up.  http://www.mygolfspy.com/clone-golf-clubs-vs-name-brand/

 

For the 2nd part if your clubs are working for you then there is no reason you need to purchase new clubs.  Most of us are just plain club hoes around here and like trying new stuff, but if you are happy with what you have there is no reason to get new stuff. 

 

A couple comments for you though.  If you haven't been fit for your current set of clubs I would highly recommend doing so.  Even if you are happy with them, they may not be performing as well as they could for you.  You don't have to purchase new clubs to get fit, there are a lot of adjustments you can make to your existing clubs that might get you more performance out of them.

 

Lastly the whole clone vs "real deal" clubs argument is usually about price.  Personally I think you can find such good deals on used clubs that are still in great shape that I would rather buy a good condition used set that is a couple years old over buying clone clubs that you have no idea what the quality will end up being.  You'd be amazed what you can pick up for a couple hundred bucks. 

[whiskey golf]

If this guy knowingly sold you counterfeit clubs he aint much of a PGA professional. In fact if he is caught red handed he can loose his card . The PGA has morals clauses he can be kicked out for "conduct unbecoming"  A guy that I know down here lost his card last year for being arrested and convicted of a serious felony involving drug manufacturing

 

 

Dude, This guy doesn't sound like a Class A, he sounds like a Classless A-hole....

 

Counterfeit clubs?

 

Seriously?

 

I believe ya, I'm just sayin that I'd steer clear of him, his clubs and his half ass advice.

 

Rick nailed it. Just concentrate on putting a solid stroke on the ball and letting your read take care of any directional chamges(breaks).

 

Besides, spin is determined by angle at impact and swing path versus where on the putter face that you impact the ball.

 

Take care

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

 

Yeah that guy was bad, turns out from what I heard that I wasn't the only one who was sold counterfeit clubs. I think he even sold other counterfeit items not golf related. He hinted at it before and the whole club issue confirmed suspicions. He later got fired but for a whole different reason, something with being on bad terms with management. I thought I started a thread on counterfeit clubs but I can't seem to find it, I explained the story there in a bit better detail. 

[BIG STU]

I wanted to touch on the shaft thing for you. Here's a great myth. Faster swingers should use S flex shafts and slower R. The reality is that there is no uniform standard for golf equipment. Even the loft on the club is suspect. Also the proper shaft flex and weight may change based on your transition or angle of attack. You need to go get fitted before buying clubs. If you are a 14 without a properly fitted set you'll be an 11 with one.

I will add something to this also. It depends on the shaft and how the shaft was tipped when the club was built. Also some manufacturers go by different frequencies when determining the stiffness factors. I use my friend's frequency machine all the time and it has really enlightened me to this. I have seen variations of 10 to 12 points on stock factory uncut shafts in one shipment of 10 shafts

[BIG STU]

It truly broke my heart when I learned that this was indeed a myth, more so than when I learned that there was no Santa

 

The Myth: GOLF is the acronym for "Gentleman Only- Ladies Forbidden"

 

 

Fairways & Greens My Friends

LMAO Careful RP you might get taken off Mrs MBPs Christmas card list.

OOPS! I misread that sorry maybe you are still on that list but what the heck I just could not resist trying to get one on you

[BIG STU]

Rickles, the last paragraph answered my whole debate with the cutting a put issue. Why would you cut a putt!!! there is no need to get fancy with it just roll it true and straight, I'm sure the older pros had practiced years to do it to compesate for issues translated from a full swing. but for us reading the line getting speed and hitting square is what we should be concentrating on.

 

Now heres another myth/ promo thing i heard. "clone clubs preform to standard of brand name!" I will be straight forward and say I am cheap, I don't like spending a lot of money on clubs. I get the "you get what you pay for mentality. The first set of clubs that I bought for my self is a from a brand called Pinemeadow golf. Since they are the first set of uniform clubs I have I think they are awesome. they preform well they feel good to me and I am comfortable with them. that being said why would I go out and drop $400 for an Iron set? kinda of two topics to cover in there: how do quality of clone clubs compare? and why would I need to purchase new clubs if what I have works for me?

 

Thanks for the involvement here, it's good the here some of the BS being called out so I can just ignore that out there.

I just built a set of KB Tours for a customer of mine He purchased the heads from Trident pretty cheap. He got a deal on some UST graphite shafts. Those heads are a Ping clone. I did work on the shafts quite a bit frequency matching them. We took them out and hit them before the rain came yesterday and they hit good he was happy. The shaft makes a big difference and being properly fit for you is a main factor. Over the years I have built quite a few sets of the Cally x-22 clones for people and fine tuned them so to speak and they have performed well

[Mfrye]

Then what makes Cleveland the top wedge manufacturer? What is so stand out about Cleveland over Ping wedges or any other brands?

 

If there is not a noticeable difference what makes them so popular??

[Mfrye]

I Also hear a lot of people talking about getting their clubs fitted. what exactly does that mean? What's the point of doing a club fitting

 

Fitting is something that is always talked about but is never really addressed as far as what it involved. Is it face angle opened or closed? Or loft adjustment? or what options is there?

[Mfrye]

What a great thread! This is one that can grow legs and run on its own. If it had been here longer, it would be up for thread of the year.

 

For myths... RP and Rick stole mine. But another I hear sometimes is that with irons, you pinch the ball against the turf at impact. BS. That's called a topped shot and we all know the result of that.

 

With perfect impact conditions, the shaft is leaning forward, the club head is descending slightly. The leading edge of the club is definitely coming in below the equator of the ball, ideally it's at the same level as the bottom of the ball. The loft of the club is pointed up, away from the ground. The ball initially starts to slide up the face until enough friction builds up and it starts to roll before it rebounds off. That's what creates the backspin.

 

At no point in that process, that only lasts for milliseconds, does the ball get pushed in a downward direction. Someone may feel like they're pinching the ball against the turf. But it's not happening. High speed video has proven that thousands of times. But you'll still hear people say that's what happens.

Lets make it a dark horse for thread of the year!! I could really use a jet speed driver and some MGS gear to wear!!

[Mr_Theoo]

I Also hear a lot of people talking about getting their clubs fitted. what exactly does that mean? What's the point of doing a club fitting

 

Fitting is something that is always talked about but is never really addressed as far as what it involved. Is it face angle opened or closed? Or loft adjustment? or what options is there?

 

Getting fitted can be as simple as finding the right shaft flex to as complex as figuring out optimal spin rates, launch angle, loft, lie. the list can go on and on. But getting fitted for your clubs is very important because you want to make sure that the clubs you play are fitted as best to your swing as possible.

[RoverRick]

FORGED IRONS ARE SOFTER AND PROVIDE BETTER FEEL THAN CAST IRONS

 

The term "forged" versus "cast" simply refers to the manufacturing process used to form the shape of the head of an iron, nothing more.

 

 

 

A big reason that there is a difference in "feel" between a cast iron and a forged iron is that it is truly not an "apples to apples" comparison. Most of the GI & SGI irons are cast, while the "Players" irons, both CB's and MB's, are forged and are of different designs, shapes & specs, amongst a myriad of other differences, so of course they're going to "feel" different, lol.

 

If you take a cast iron and a forged iron of exactly the same shape & weight distribution, the same loft, the same center of gravity in both heads, and the heads have the same shafts, same grip & same length, along with the same offset, swing weight & MOI, hitting the same ball from the same area, 98-99% of golfers, Pro or Amateur, will never be able to tell the difference.

 

Most of the remaining 1-2% want to believe that the forged iron will be softer in feel due to the carbon steel used in a typical forging, which is a "softer" metal, but scientific research has shown that the "hardness" difference in a metal alone is not enough to create a difference in impact "feel."

 

The biggest difference in the "feel" of cast vs. forged has to do with the metal that is used.  The material used in a forged iron is typically a high carbon steel.  Although Titleist has forged some lines of their irons out of stainless.  This is because this metal is easier to "work" or forge.  Cast clubs, typically have chromiurm added to it making it stainless steel.  The reason for this is that stainless steel in its molten state flows better and fills voids better than carbon steel.  Stainless steel is not as easy a metal to "work" with when forging and is in fact a harder metal.

 

No amount of engineering can make a cast club softer than a forged club.  However, that is not saying that you can not make a cast club, using a harder metal, "feel" softer than a forged club.  Ping uses elstomer thermoplastics to make their irons feel softer. 

 

A cast iron will certainly last longer than a forged iron. 

[Mfrye]

Now to easily understand what you mean by feel lets look at putters, the odyssey putters feel a whole lot smoother than the current putter I have what makes that difference?

[RoverRick]

Now to easily understand what you mean by feel lets look at putters, the odyssey putters feel a whole lot smoother than the current putter I have what makes that difference?

 

True,  There is no real way to quantify "feel".  Forged Irons never felt "soft" to me at all.  They feel more "solid."  Yes, I realize I did not answer your question.

 

Odyssey putters, at least the two I have owned, have elastomer faces on them.  They add distance to the putt for me, which is not always desirable.  I prefer the Scotty Camerons with either a GSS face or made of soft steel like my current Coronado. 

 

Obviously, since Odyssey has sold more than a few, Ping also makes insert putters, and in a recent MGS survey, last I checked it was about 50/50 on which was more popular insert or no insert.  I think that no insert rolls smoother and insert putters are more clicky.  However, feel in putters, like cast versus forged is simply too subjective to make one right and one wrong.

[GolfSpy Dave]

Here's my favorite myth from my former instructor.

 

High handicap players play better with SGI or GI irons.

 

I've got Data even!

http://www.mygolfspy.com/second-guesses-did-you-make-the-right-decision-on-those-new-irons/

[Mfrye]

LMFAO, what, a $275 pair of once worn Maui Jim sunglasses isn't enough, lol?

 

It may not beat the driver, but it sure beats the hell out of 2nd prize, LMAO.

 

Unless, of course, you wanna take your shot at gettin nominated and roll the dice in the Thread of The Year Contest and withdraw from the "Newbie" thread contest, lol

 

 

Fairways & Greens My Friend,

Richard

Lol I'm not gonna lie Richard I'm not much of a sunglasses type of person. If I do get sunglasses they are the cheap ones from a gas station so if I lose em I don't worry about it. I started this thread because I was hearing a lot of bs out there.

I appreciate being the front runner for them, it's great that I started something that people are getting involved with.

[Sluggo42]

LMFAO, what, a $275 pair of once worn Maui Jim sunglasses isn't enough, lol?

It may not beat the driver, but it sure beats the hell out of 2nd prize, LMAO.

Unless, of course, you wanna take your shot at gettin nominated and roll the dice in the Thread of The Year Contest and withdraw from the "Newbie" thread contest, lol

Fairways & Greens My Friend,

Richard

Maui Jim's?

Aren't I still a,newbie? Hahaha

[The Dansome]

Zinger once met someone better looking than himself

 

MBP once went an entire day without taking pictures

 

RP went a whole season without buying a club

 

T wrote an entire article without typo's

 

I've taken 4 today already!

[revkev]

I Also hear a lot of people talking about getting their clubs fitted. what exactly does that mean? What's the point of doing a club fitting

Fitting is something that is always talked about but is never really addressed as far as what it involved. Is it face angle opened or closed? Or loft adjustment? or what options is there?

At the very least you want to have the length, lie, shaft and grips of your clubs properly fit. If the lie on your irons is off you could make perfectly good swings and have poor results.

 

Consider it and see.

 

I saw the myth on GI vs non GI. Correct the testing I've seen suggests that everyone would benefit from using GI irons.

[RoverRick]

MYTH: ACCURACY TRUMPS DISTANCE/BUBBA'S A WILD MAN WHO's 8i APPROACH SHOT @ AUGUSTA IS HIS TYPICAL LIE & APPROACH SHOT

 

And here's what I found-

 

2013 Tour Driving Distances:

 

1)Bubba.........315.5yds

2)C. Beljan.....311.6yds

3)R. Garrigus...310.3yds

4)Dustin........310.2yds

5)Rory..........310.1yds

 

Zach came in at 105th(283.9yds)-

 

Now, let's look at what these five guys did in 2013-

 

They combined for 7 victories, 8 runner-ups & an INCREDIBLE 37 top 10's! Only Garrigus didn't visit the winner's circle, and he got an amazing FOUR runner-ups, lol.

 

Now in fairness, Zach had 8 top ten's in '13, so he more than held his own. However let's not forget that with a one stroke lead standing on #18, he bogied the same whole the Spieth birdied to force the three way play-off that he lost to Spieth. He also lost a first round lead in The Open after firin a 65, to finish sixth. Not dog meat by any stretch, though he's not exactly gonna carry the tag as "The Closer" anytime soon, lol.

 

It was much more than just Bubba's distance versus Zach's distance.  It went into approach to the game.  Those four you listed less Bubba accounted for 7 victories and 8 runner ups, and 27 top ten's.  Those guys that you listed have all laid up many times last season.  I remember just in the last couple of weeks, Dustin hitting 4 iron off the tee on the 18th to ensure his victory.

 

Power is awesome, but know when to apply it is the key.