Please, help shorten my swing

[NC Golfer]

Please, help me solve a very old problem....my long collapsed swing. I am confident that if I shorten my backswing. My contact will improve greatly. Thanks, for your suggestions.

 

[jamo]

Please, help me solve a very old problem....my long collapsed swing. I am confident that if I shorten my backswing. My contact will improve greatly. Thanks, for your suggestions.

 

 

There, that should make it easier for everyone to see.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZF7oyKyM7k

[jamo]

The easiest an quickest fix is the left arm. Ideally it should not be bent at all at the top. You don't want it to be locked, but definitely straight. Straightening it will also bring your hands farther away from you head (more left in the behind view). Currently your swing at the top looks like a baseball player waiting for the pitch, not where you want to be. You don't want your right arm to be as folded in the back view video, you want it to be closer to 90*.

 

Another thing is the right arm in the face on video. You want it to be close to 90* here to, and you fold it a little more than that. Fix the left arm thing though and the right arm should be fixed as a consequence.

[NC Golfer]

The easiest an quickest fix is the left arm. Ideally it should not be bent at all at the top. You don't want it to be locked, but definitely straight. Straightening it will also bring your hands farther away from you head (more left in the behind view). Currently your swing at the top looks like a baseball player waiting for the pitch, not where you want to be. You don't want your right arm to be as folded in the back view video, you want it to be closer to 90*.

 

Another thing is the right arm in the face on video. You want it to be close to 90* here to, and you fold it a little more than that. Fix the left arm thing though and the right arm should be fixed as a consequence.

 

Jamo - thx for the quick reply. I'll work on the left arm. I do have a bad back and

lack of flexibility. I am planning on working on that, too.

[jamo]

Jamo - thx for the quick reply. I'll work on the left arm. I do have a bad back and

lack of flexibility. I am planning on working on that, too.

 

Good luck.

[Phana24JG]

Please, help me solve a very old problem....my long collapsed swing. I am confident that if I shorten my backswing. My contact will improve greatly. Thanks, for your suggestions.

 

 

WARNING!!! I am not a PGA instructor or even a gifted amateur instructor, take any advice with that in mind.

 

In my opinion, the length of your backswing is not really a problem. What you think is a "collapse" is merely a dropping of the hands in transition, whcih is actually a good move, provided you are still gripping the club, especially with the last 3 fingers of the left hand. I do not mean a death grip, but just make sure you are not releasing the club. I believe your first problem is the lack of a good turn on the backswing. Take a look at Mike Jacobs' rather compact backswing.

Note how despite not even having the club near parallel, Mike has his shoulders turned 90 degrees (actually a little more) whereas your shoulders might approach 65 degrees. In addition, Mike has his hips turned as he pivots onto his right side. If you have back issues, you will probably have to turn your hips more to achieve a good shoulder turn, but that is not a big issue. Unless you make an effective backswing with at least a decent turn, you will never consistently strike the ball. If you improve this aspect of the swing, you will see the left arm naturally stay straighter. I would not artificially try and keep the arm stiff, but with a good turn is should be far less bent.

 

However, I believe the real death of your swing occurs in the transition to the downswing. Watch your swing from face-on. Place the point of your cursor on your head, then place the cursor on your left shoulder. I can't tell which one moves first, but it really does not matter. The downswing has to be initiated by the lower body. Now go back to Jacobs' video and place the cursor on his left hip. Notice how his left hip seems to slide about 4-6" before there is any real movement from the upper body. There are many theories about what is the best way to trigger this move. Some people actively slide their hip a few inches, some push off the inside of the right foot. Other techniques include pushing the right knee toward the taget, "pulling down" with the left hand, and other focus on the right hand.

 

The end result of this lunge with the upper body is what we call clubhead throwaway or "flipping." Notice how the club is ahead of your hands by the time you hit the ball. This is a big distance killer, and will prevent you from ever properly compressing a golf ball. If you go back to your swing, stop the video as close as you can to contact. Notice how your head and left shoulder are wayyyyyyyy ahead of the ball before you make contact. Now go back and look at Jacobs. His head remains just behind the ball until he makes contact. As his right shoulder continues to turn it forces his head forward AFTER the ball is struck.

 

I used Mike as an example because he has a tremendous amount of free stuff including videos on line through his "Explosive Golf School.". I will be visiting Mike later this year. I came across him at http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/ but that is not a great site for a beginner. I hope this helps. Best of luck and tell your friends about MGS.

[NC Golfer]

WARNING!!! I am not a PGA instructor or even a gifted amateur instructor, take any advice with that in mind.

 

In my opinion, the length of your backswing is not really a problem. What you think is a "collapse" is merely a dropping of the hands in transition, whcih is actually a good move, provided you are still gripping the club, especially with the last 3 fingers of the left hand. I do not mean a death grip, but just make sure you are not releasing the club. I believe your first problem is the lack of a good turn on the backswing. Take a look at Mike Jacobs' rather compact backswing.

Note how despite not even having the club near parallel, Mike has his shoulders turned 90 degrees (actually a little more) whereas your shoulders might approach 65 degrees. In addition, Mike has his hips turned as he pivots onto his right side. If you have back issues, you will probably have to turn your hips more to achieve a good shoulder turn, but that is not a big issue. Unless you make an effective backswing with at least a decent turn, you will never consistently strike the ball. If you improve this aspect of the swing, you will see the left arm naturally stay straighter. I would not artificially try and keep the arm stiff, but with a good turn is should be far less bent.

 

However, I believe the real death of your swing occurs in the transition to the downswing. Watch your swing from face-on. Place the point of your cursor on your head, then place the cursor on your left shoulder. I can't tell which one moves first, but it really does not matter. The downswing has to be initiated by the lower body. Now go back to Jacobs' video and place the cursor on his left hip. Notice how his left hip seems to slide about 4-6" before there is any real movement from the upper body. There are many theories about what is the best way to trigger this move. Some people actively slide their hip a few inches, some push off the inside of the right foot. Other techniques include pushing the right knee toward the taget, "pulling down" with the left hand, and other focus on the right hand.

 

The end result of this lunge with the upper body is what we call clubhead throwaway or "flipping." Notice how the club is ahead of your hands by the time you hit the ball. This is a big distance killer, and will prevent you from ever properly compressing a golf ball. If you go back to your swing, stop the video as close as you can to contact. Notice how your head and left shoulder are wayyyyyyyy ahead of the ball before you make contact. Now go back and look at Jacobs. His head remains just behind the ball until he makes contact. As his right shoulder continues to turn it forces his head forward AFTER the ball is struck.

 

I used Mike as an example because he has a tremendous amount of free stuff including videos on line through his "Explosive Golf School.". I will be visiting Mike later this year. I came across him at http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/ but that is not a great site for a beginner. I hope this helps. Best of luck and tell your friends about MGS.

 

 

Phana,

 

Wow! Thanks, for taking the time to analyze my swing. I think you have wonderful observations. I have tried to swing from the ground up. But, I guess without a proper

turn on the backswing, it really doesn't matter what I do going through.

 

I like the idea of turning the hips more to get a better should turn. I'll cehck out the web sites, too.

 

Best Wishes to your game!

 

NCGolfer - Cary, NC!

[Manavs]

Please, help me solve a very old problem....my long collapsed swing. I am confident that if I shorten my backswing. My contact will improve greatly. Thanks, for your suggestions.

 

 

 

NC Golfer -

 

I agree Phana that the biggest issue is not your backswing. not even close. but since that is what you wanted help for.....

 

a few agreement points of reference first -

 

when the club is parallel to the ground at waist high. the sequence you used up to this point was -

 

1 - clubhead

2 - hands

3 - arms

4 - shoulders

 

your hips are still - relatively speaking - facing the golf ball.

 

with me so far? right wrong or indifferent, do we see the same thing?

 

at this point the only thing for you left to turn is your hips. you have in essence corkscrewed yourself from the top down. any hip turn at this point will only send the club further forward (towards the flag) from behind you. This causes your hips to slide into, and thru your right side, for the sake of counter balance - you have got so much weight forward that you have to counter by shifting your weight to and thru the right foot at the top.

 

the fix i suggest for you is not everyone, rather tailored for you (if someone else wants to throw their swing up here, they will get their own answer so lol).

 

thing of the body as 3 building blocks. you have the lower body (hips to feet), the upper body (torso)and the arms, hands and club as the 3rd piece.

 

these 3 pieces move in balance, or rather counter balance. simple physics tells us if you shift one to the left, the other shifts to the right and vice versa.

 

if you look at Ben Hogan at the top of his backswing. His hips had rotated into his left heel at the top of the backswing -

 

his lower body weight is on his left side, is upper body and arms/hands/club are countering this - and hence the width at the top of the backswing.

 

your golf swing at the top has no width. and your hips are into your right foot, therefore your upper body is into your left side as is the club. there is no (positive) counter anchor.

 

to create this i say take a page out of Bobby Jones, and Earnest Jones. put a slight (slight not much) lag into the takeaway of your backswing. change your sequence to:

 

1-handle (leaning the shaft backwards first)

2-hips (rotating thru your right hip and into your left foot)

3-clubhead (the momentum generated by 1 and 2 should move this)

 

this way your clubhead will move your arms and shoulders to the top. kind of like cracking a whip. the tip of the whip never moves first. think of the shaft as a soft rope that your just slinging back.

 

because your hips have pre-turned of sorts, you have all this newfound room and width at the top.

 

now as soon as the clubhead passes your right foot (or thereabouts) start down. it will take a few shots to get the rhythm of it all. but for the love of pete (whoever pete is)you'll be in far better shape than you are now.

 

side note - a few analogies i use when teaching backswing. think of am airplane motor. back in the day they got on the tarmac and gave the propellor a spin from the outside (clubhead) to spin the inside (motor/hips). technology grew and we were able to adapt and turn a key or push a button to start the inside (motor) to move a driveshaft (spine) to move the propeller (clubhead). there is nothing wrong with moving the propeller first (unless you'd rather stay inside in below freezing temperatures while the plane is de-icing like me). both ways work, i just would be interested to see how changing your sequence would work for you.

 

lemme know how this works -

 

regards

Michael

[NC Golfer]

NC Golfer -

 

I agree Phana that the biggest issue is not your backswing. not even close. but since that is what you wanted help for.....

 

a few agreement points of reference first -

 

when the club is parallel to the ground at waist high. the sequence you used up to this point was -

 

1 - clubhead

2 - hands

3 - arms

4 - shoulders

 

your hips are still - relatively speaking - facing the golf ball.

 

with me so far? right wrong or indifferent, do we see the same thing?

 

at this point the only thing for you left to turn is your hips. you have in essence corkscrewed yourself from the top down. any hip turn at this point will only send the club further forward (towards the flag) from behind you. This causes your hips to slide into, and thru your right side, for the sake of counter balance - you have got so much weight forward that you have to counter by shifting your weight to and thru the right foot at the top.

 

the fix i suggest for you is not everyone, rather tailored for you (if someone else wants to throw their swing up here, they will get their own answer so lol).

 

thing of the body as 3 building blocks. you have the lower body (hips to feet), the upper body (torso)and the arms, hands and club as the 3rd piece.

 

these 3 pieces move in balance, or rather counter balance. simple physics tells us if you shift one to the left, the other shifts to the right and vice versa.

 

if you look at Ben Hogan at the top of his backswing. His hips had rotated into his left heel at the top of the backswing -

 

his lower body weight is on his left side, is upper body and arms/hands/club are countering this - and hence the width at the top of the backswing.

 

your golf swing at the top has no width. and your hips are into your right foot, therefore your upper body is into your left side as is the club. there is no (positive) counter anchor.

 

to create this i say take a page out of Bobby Jones, and Earnest Jones. put a slight (slight not much) lag into the takeaway of your backswing. change your sequence to:

 

1-handle (leaning the shaft backwards first)

2-hips (rotating thru your right hip and into your left foot)

3-clubhead (the momentum generated by 1 and 2 should move this)

 

this way your clubhead will move your arms and shoulders to the top. kind of like cracking a whip. the tip of the whip never moves first. think of the shaft as a soft rope that your just slinging back.

 

because your hips have pre-turned of sorts, you have all this newfound room and width at the top.

 

now as soon as the clubhead passes your right foot (or thereabouts) start down. it will take a few shots to get the rhythm of it all. but for the love of pete (whoever pete is)you'll be in far better shape than you are now.

 

side note - a few analogies i use when teaching backswing. think of am airplane motor. back in the day they got on the tarmac and gave the propellor a spin from the outside (clubhead) to spin the inside (motor/hips). technology grew and we were able to adapt and turn a key or push a button to start the inside (motor) to move a driveshaft (spine) to move the propeller (clubhead). there is nothing wrong with moving the propeller first (unless you'd rather stay inside in below freezing temperatures while the plane is de-icing like me). both ways work, i just would be interested to see how changing your sequence would work for you.

 

lemme know how this works -

 

regards

Michael

 

Michael.

 

Thanks, for the effort. It is truly very kind of you. Yes, your observations are dead on.

I start with the hands, arms etc and do not move my hips ( probably a big strain on my back ). Then from there continue with an arm swing - results - scrores in the high 90's.

 

I do like the idea of a proper sequence. I feel if I get that done correctly, my ball striking will get better and better yet if I can start the DS with the lower half.

 

One confusing thing, was from the vid above the pro talks about a ground initiated

swing ( step on to the right side ). That would be different from what you suggest.

I guess there are different ways to get there. You also said everyone is different and

might need their individual fix. Your anologies are great. You must be a fantastic

teacher.

 

Andrew

Cary, NC!

[NC Golfer]

Michael.

 

Thanks, for the effort. It is truly very kind of you. Yes, your observations are dead on.

I start with the hands, arms etc and do not move my hips ( probably a big strain on my back ). Then from there continue with an arm swing - results - scrores in the high 90's.

 

I do like the idea of a proper sequence. I feel if I get that done correctly, my ball striking will get better and better yet if I can start the DS with the lower half.

 

One confusing thing, was from the vid above the pro talks about a ground initiated

swing ( step on to the right side ). That would be different from what you suggest.

I guess there are different ways to get there. You also said everyone is different and

might need their individual fix. Your anologies are great. You must be a fantastic

teacher.

 

Andrew

Cary, NC!

 

 

Michael,

 

I have an indoor range (whiffle ball)

 

just experimenting with swing the handle ( hips go with it )

then swing with lower half (hips)....wow. I think this is my secret!

 

Thx!

 

Andrew

[Manavs]

You must be a fantastic

teacher.

 

Andrew

Cary, NC!

 

Im actually just a dumb meathead that works out lol -

 

Michael,

 

I have an indoor range (whiffle ball)

 

just experimenting with swing the handle ( hips go with it )

then swing with lower half (hips)....wow. I think this is my secret!

 

Thx!

 

Andrew

 

Hi Andrew -

 

glad your enjoying it! please make note the suggestions i gave were strictly for loading of your backswing.

 

as far as downswing goes, i'd highly suggest that you dont make an attempt to "swing with lower half (hips)" to initiate the downswing. that action of the hips leading the downswing that every tour player makes is actually the result of apply stress or pressure against the shaft using your hands. the harder you apply pressure the more the hips will turn. yet if you attempt to bypass the hand pressure and manually override your hip turn by actively using your hips you'll be way out ahead of it.

 

its the illusion of slow motion/still frame video replay. greater hip turn is achieve with applying force from the hands to the shaft than hip turn alone. plus the club wont be stuck behind you.

 

try this drill. take either a blank shaft or hold the club reverse (clubhead in your right hand and the grip where the ball would be.) take it to the top of your backswing and turn your hips first to initiate the downswing. hear the whoosh? note how loud it is. now try not to turn your hips first and instead move the tip of the shaft first - note how loud that is and compare the two whooshes. which one can you generate more volume and hence more speed? hips first? or tip of club first?

 

then turn the club right side up, take a few practice swings, and hit a few shots.

 

keep me posted my friend

 

i think you will see a different sequence all around - but what do i know, im just a dumb bodybuilder lol

[NC Golfer]

Im actually just a dumb meathead that works out lol -

 

 

 

Hi Andrew -

 

glad your enjoying it! please make note the suggestions i gave were strictly for loading of your backswing.

 

as far as downswing goes, i'd highly suggest that you dont make an attempt to "swing with lower half (hips)" to initiate the downswing. that action of the hips leading the downswing that every tour player makes is actually the result of apply stress or pressure against the shaft using your hands. the harder you apply pressure the more the hips will turn. yet if you attempt to bypass the hand pressure and manually override your hip turn by actively using your hips you'll be way out ahead of it.

 

its the illusion of slow motion/still frame video replay. greater hip turn is achieve with applying force from the hands to the shaft than hip turn alone. plus the club wont be stuck behind you.

 

try this drill. take either a blank shaft or hold the club reverse (clubhead in your right hand and the grip where the ball would be.) take it to the top of your backswing and turn your hips first to initiate the downswing. hear the whoosh? note how loud it is. now try not to turn your hips first and instead move the tip of the shaft first - note how loud that is and compare the two whooshes. which one can you generate more volume and hence more speed? hips first? or tip of club first?

 

then turn the club right side up, take a few practice swings, and hit a few shots.

 

keep me posted my friend

 

i think you will see a different sequence all around - but what do i know, im just a dumb bodybuilder lol

 

 

I think I am the dumb one :-). How are you starting the downswing? The tip? Is that the

handle? Appreciate it!

[Manavs]

I think I am the dumb one :-). How are you starting the downswing? The tip? Is that the

handle? Appreciate it!

 

tip=clubhead=head of the hammer=bidness end of the club=the part that would cause greated bodily harm if used as a blunt weapon

 

(im just saying lol)

 

get that moving down and out towards the ball. the hips will respond properly to that move.

 

if you moved the hips first, the clubhead will tend to come out and over the top for you.

[NC Golfer]

tip=clubhead=head of the hammer=bidness end of the club=the part that would cause greated bodily harm if used as a blunt weapon

 

(im just saying lol)

 

get that moving down and out towards the ball. the hips will respond properly to that move.

 

if you moved the hips first, the clubhead will tend to come out and over the top for you.

 

Thx, man. I'll keep you posted. Wishing you a great game as well!

[golf4pros]

There, that should make it easier for everyone to see.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZF7oyKyM7k

 

 

This is one of the most common mistakes people make - they tend to swing the club with their hands. I recommend to pivot properly meaning turining your chest/torso around your spine using your large muscles in your back - without swaying - I noticed that your hips tend to sway and your weight is shifting outside your right foot. I would highly recommend Hogan 5 steps book. He talks about how to take your club back and keeping the weight inside your legs and arms.

 

Look up vidoes or articles on google for proper pivoting - it will definately help your swing.

[Big money]

Maybe try working on your takeaway. More low and slow. That might tighten up that over swing 

[PlaidJacket]

Good advice. But since NC Golfer hasn't visited the Forum in a year and a half I'm guessing he found a fix. LOL