Increasing Loft, Not just a TaylorMade Buzz Item

[dru_]

Doing some lunchtime web surfing while eating, I see an ESPN article (external link) about Lefty being really excited entering this season with a new Big Bertha Alpha driver and how it has lowered his spin and is straighter.  Much of the first few paragraphs read more like a sponsored SEO / Advertising blog post than something written by and ESPN journalist.  Then about the 5th paragraph we get a money quote:

 

 

 

Mickelson said he has been experimenting with more loft on the new driver.

 

Which is interesting in that the Big Bertha and the SLDR are the two clubs so far this season changing the message about spin, loft and a new CG location.  It is interesting to see Lefty reinforcing the Loft UP message that TaylorMade looks to be preparing to ramp up in full force.

 

The rest of the article is more of a fluff piece about Lefty's schedule, but the message seems clear.   More loft is coming from more than just TaylorMade.

 

But reading that article, it really seems like ESPN is selling SEO posts.  The ONLY thing that prevents that from fitting that dynamic is the lack of a link back to the Big Bertha page on the Callaway's website.

[SPY ZINGER]

It's all about the GC location. It's a direct result of this placement, low and forward that they need more loft to optimize. It's not marketing, it's a necessity.

[dru_]

Yeah but the last several years have been all about the message that 10.5 is approaching high loft.  this is anew message.

[SPY ZINGER]

Yeah but the last several years have been all about the message that 10.5 is approaching high loft. this is anew message.

No doubt! I'm interested in hearing what the loft up guys have to say next week.

[HighFade]

Here's what we have been hearing. Engineers determined 17 degree launch angle with 1700 rpm is ideal for ALL swing speeds. But the problem is, to get to 17 degrees launch, the higher loft creates so much spin,it's not possible with existing heads. So they are moving weight lower and forward to reduce spin, enabling them to increase launch able without increasing spin. We watched a machine hit one of their prototype heads at 98mph, with 17* launch and 1700 rpm. It carried 255, and ran out 15 yards. It was crazy high, and doesn't make sense, but I saw it myself.

[snoopy]

I came across this last night - a video by TMaG explaining the science behind Loft Up, pretty cool to get a general knowledge behind the theory. 

 

and from the other thread, looks like the guys down at The Kingdom right now are really benefiting from the fitting/loft up!!

 

[Walkerjames]

I don't know how all the engineering works but I will say that yesterday when I did hit a good driver it was 20-25 yards futher than my previous driver.

So I'm sold on the tech.

[snoopy]

I don't know how all the engineering works but I will say that yesterday when I did hit a good driver it was 20-25 yards futher than my previous driver.

So I'm sold on the tech.

 

that's awesome. i haven't been able to hit the SLDR in real life conditions yet, just on an indoor simulator, but it feels great. i'm gonna have to pay a visit to my tmag fitter here in vancouver soon!!

[Mr_Theoo]

that's awesome. i haven't been able to hit the SLDR in real life conditions yet, just on an indoor simulator, but it feels great. i'm gonna have to pay a visit to my tmag fitter here in vancouver soon!!

Definitely make sure you go to a fitter. The stock shaft isn't for everyone and you could end up robbing yourself of distance and not even know it.

[whiskey golf]

I wonder how many people would actually use a driver that launches 17 degrees. When I was getting fit for my R1, the shots that I thought were going high were only going about 10 degrees so it would take a lot for me to adjust. I can also see launch being affected by wind but maybe the low spin would help resist some of that.

[Salmon]

If it was optimised i certainly would.

 

Due to my swing speed and swing i have always been a high launcher of the ball so I'm no stranger to it anyway, so much so that my current driver is a 7.5* 903 D2.

 

The main difference would be the type of ball flight and not so much the launch angle, as a shot that came out high but was peircing would beat (not to mention look better in my opinion) another that came out low and ballooned in any condition and would be more apparent as the conditions worsened.

 

I have a feeling the initial launch angle of the ball wont be as big of an issue than the number on the club and the perception surrounding that.

[JBones]

If it was optimised i certainly would.

 

Due to my swing speed and swing i have always been a high launcher of the ball so I'm no stranger to it anyway, so much so that my current driver is a 7.5* 903 D2.

 

The main difference would be the type of ball flight and not so much the launch angle, as a shot that came out high but was peircing would beat (not to mention look better in my opinion) another that came out low and ballooned in any condition and would be more apparent as the conditions worsened.

 

I have a feeling the initial launch angle of the ball wont be as big of an issue than the number on the club and the perception surrounding that.

I was a high launch low-mid spin driver and I probably spent the most time getting fit. After getting numbers dialed in, I asked to try the SLDR 430, because the smaller head appeals to my eye. My first swing with it was a bomb and my fitter says "you may want to take a look at these numbers", it was a 16° launch angle, with 1900rpm spin, with 297 carry and 318.5 total distance, with a max height of 91', which he said were almost absolute perfect numbers. That was going from a 8° R1 (which I launched lower than my 7.5° Krank) to a 10.5° SLDR.

[Mr_Theoo]

I wonder how many people would actually use a driver that launches 17 degrees. When I was getting fit for my R1, the shots that I thought were going high were only going about 10 degrees so it would take a lot for me to adjust. I can also see launch being affected by wind but maybe the low spin would help resist some of that.

At the kingdom they purposely built it so you would only be hitting into the wind not with it so numbers didn't get skewed. With the higher launching drives everyone was still having their balls slice through the wind.

 

You would think it would get tossed around in the wind but when you see it for yourself it's hard to argue that higher launches isn't the way to go. The hardest part which even the pros mentioned was adjusting their window of what they are used to seeing as good launch conditions.

[Salmon]

I was a high launch low-mid spin driver and I probably spent the most time getting fit. After getting numbers dialed in, I asked to try the SLDR 430, because the smaller head appeals to my eye. My first swing with it was a bomb and my fitter says "you may want to take a look at these numbers", it was a 16° launch angle, with 1900rpm spin, with 297 carry and 318.5 total distance, with a max height of 91', which he said were almost absolute perfect numbers. That was going from a 8° R1 (which I launched lower than my 7.5° Krank) to a 10.5° SLDR.

Man wish I could experience a fitting similar to what you guys went through, I can only imagine what I would get out of it

 

So lucky!

[revkev]

Lost in this is the fact that what we see might be deceiving.  Someone else alluded to it - I think it was Salmon (welcome by the way) that you might launch low and then balloon which is not good at all.  But you might not pick up the flight earlier enough and simply think you're launching it too high - they would lead to an entire set of wrong headed adjustments.  Likewise you might launch it high and then flatten out (just what you want).  Since you don't pick the flight up right away you're thinking - oh I launched it too low.

 

Bottom line is you need the numbers and that other set of trained eyes to really get properly fit.  The problem is finding that other set of trained us for some affordable amount of money or with the proper equipment available to keep experimenting until you get it just right.

 

I can tell you that I hadn't a clue that I was a high launch player until I saw the numbers to prove it.

[whiskey golf]

These results from the SLDR are making me want to buy one, so much for the R1. 

[mr_divots]

Went up in loft to a 10.5 head with a low spin shaft two years ago.

My thing is this: how often have you heard the golf balls just don't SPIN as much as they used to and aren't as workable, etc? What changed this year? Nothing. More loft has been needed for a while for anyone not fighting excessive spin with a ton of swing speed. Trying to market uber-low spin to the masses is going to fill used bins with these drivers. Is that what they want? Well on their way.

[HighFade]

@mr_divots,

 

I don't think the used bin will be filled up, unless people are only paying attention to the spin rates and the loft number imprinted on the driver.  Hit it on the course and watch it bounce and roll down the fairway, and people will be sold on it.  I was.

[mr_divots]

@mr_divots,

 

I don't think the used bin will be filled up, unless people are only paying attention to the spin rates and the loft number imprinted on the driver.  Hit it on the course and watch it bounce and roll down the fairway, and people will be sold on it.  I was.

Granted, this was just being out on the course with some people that had SLDR's, but I did give a couple of them some licks with two different shafts and lofts. Honestly, I hit the ball a fair way, so I'd think this would be one that would work for me. The impact sensation I was not pleased with at all. Very harsh to my senses. Flight was low and knuckling and consistently left for me. It kinda surprises me as many people are reporting to like this stick as there are. I definitely hit my G25 better, (not a plug, just my experience) and the guys I was paired with hit it and were raving about it as well. TM is enjoying their #1 spot right now, IMO. I don't think it means this driver is for everyone at all.

 

Tried 3 new drivers for 2013 with great results from each in the 913D2, G25, and Classic XL Custom, all in 10.5 with varying shafts. SLDR I just can't get past that impact sensation, nor the flight I saw on-course. I don't want to have to work that hard to get into a driver when others work just fine for me.

 

I have heard good SLDR experiences though, so don't mean to rain on any parades. Just my experience.

[revkev]

There is no perfect club that fits everyone even in an age when the club itself comes with multiple options.

[Blade]

Granted, this was just being out on the course with some people that had SLDR's, but I did give a couple of them some licks with two different shafts and lofts. Honestly, I hit the ball a fair way, so I'd think this would be one that would work for me. The impact sensation I was not pleased with at all. Very harsh to my senses. Flight was low and knuckling and consistently left for me. It kinda surprises me as many people are reporting to like this stick as there are. I definitely hit my G25 better, (not a plug, just my experience) and the guys I was paired with hit it and were raving about it as well. TM is enjoying their #1 spot right now, IMO. I don't think it means this driver is for everyone at all.

 

Tried 3 new drivers for 2013 with great results from each in the 913D2, G25, and Classic XL Custom, all in 10.5 with varying shafts. SLDR I just can't get past that impact sensation, nor the flight I saw on-course. I don't want to have to work that hard to get into a driver when others work just fine for me.

 

I have heard good SLDR experiences though, so don't mean to rain on any parades. Just my experience.

So, with a low launching, low spin driver that needs to be fit to the person differently than other drivers, your ball flight was low and knuckling with one you picked up with no fitting whatsoever?  Imagine that.  You would think TaylorMade would be telling people they need more loft than normal with this driver.  Oh wait!  They are saying that.  And you didn't get fit for the right loft and shaft to have any idea if it would work for you.  Sounds like a bogus review to me.  That's funny!

[Tony Covey MGS]

I went into my SLDR experience with the notion stuck in my thick skull that Loft Up was all marketing crap, and that'd I'd be the exception to whatever more loft nonsense TMaG was pushing...

 

Instead, I got fit for more loft than I would normally play on a day when I was actually hitting the ball higher than I normally do. I'm experimenting with the 430 now. The 9* they sent is definitely not going to get it done (I haven't played more than 8.5 in years), and I'm wondering if the 10.5* is going to be enough loft.

 

Point is, if you try and match the loft of what you normally play, or what you would play in any other driver (Alpha included) you're not going to come near the potential of SLDR.

[revkev]

I went into my SLDR experience with the notion stuck in my thick skull that Loft Up was all marketing crap, and that'd I'd be the exception to whatever more loft nonsense TMaG was pushing...

 

Instead, I got fit for more loft than I would normally play on a day when I was actually hitting the ball higher than I normally do. I'm experimenting with the 430 now. The 9* they sent is definitely not going to get it done (I haven't played more than 8.5 in years), and I'm wondering if the 10.5* is going to be enough loft.

 

Point is, if you try and match the loft of what you normally play, or what you would play in any other driver (Alpha included) you're not going to come near the potential of SLDR.

.

 

This and the other comments beg two questions.

 

1. Since many are being misfit or not fit at all, why didn't TMag provide training to all stores that would carry the SLDR?

 

2. How do I find someone whom I know will fit me rightly?

 

To the second question could it be simple enough that the shaft I was fit for before will do the trick? It's heavier to reduce spin so if I can get the proper launch will it work. It's very scary to leave this to a fitter who doesn't know. What if I have the option of 17 degrees launch and 2,400 spin rate or 16.5 and 2300. Which is better?

 

If i do it I don't want to get it wrong. I drive the ball very solidly and very straight right now if shorter than I would like and most people will admit to. I would know what to do with 15 more usable yards. So I'm very interested in trying

[Mr_Theoo]

2. How do I find someone whom I know will fit me rightly?

Maybe try and find a taylormade fitting center. Someone who's been properly trained to know how to fit you into the proper shaft and loft.

 

I know for me it wasn't as simple as keeping the same shaft and lofting up.

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

Maybe try and find a taylormade fitting center. Someone who's been properly trained to know how to fit you into the proper shaft and loft.

 

I know for me it wasn't as simple as keeping the same shaft and lofting up.

 

My Pro is having a TM fitting/demo on Feb 8th -- he's going to have to TM rep there to help in the fittings. It's gotta be a shaft/loft combo...

[Mr_Theoo]

My Pro is having a TM fitting/demo on Feb 8th -- he's going to have to TM rep there to help in the fittings. It's gotta be a shaft/loft combo...

I agree because I loved my fuel shaft in my Nike driver but I struggled so bad with it in the sldr.

[revkev]

And there in lies the problem - I know a Taylor Made fitting center but don't have $500 for the fitting plus then the cost of the club.

 

That's the constant issue whenever someone says, "Well we can't be treated like the pros."  Actually we can the problem is we have to pay for it - the more you want to be fitted like a pro, the more you have to pay. 

[dru_]

For what it is worth, prior to being properly fit to the SLDR I was completely on board with mr_divot. Today, I am of the opinion that TMAG is right, but they have a massssssssive marketing and teaching task ahead of them.

[revkev]

For what it is worth, prior to being properly fit to the SLDR I was completely on board with mr_divot. Today, I am of the opinion that TMAG is right, but they have a massssssssive marketing and teaching task ahead of them.

 

I'm always skeptical of the claims made by OEM's.  In fact I can be so skeptical of TMag that I didn't even pay attention to the SLDR launch.  It's only when you guys started to rave that I perked up.  Also your raves started to fit with the complaints that I had heard in regards to guys saying that the SLDR's head doesn't produce enough spin and isn't fogiving enough or feels wierd.  It's because they didn't have enough loft or the stock shaft is too light.  To get that launch angle up and reduce the spin takes something totally new and different. 

 

Interestingly I love my R11s but why shouldn't I?   I had a half day one on one fitting session at their performance center with their best East Coast fitter.  What I have is not what you get off the rack - it's not a stock shaft, it's not the stock grip, it's not the stock length.  Heck the driver I was using was none of the above, I was fit for it by a fairly competent guy and I still ended up with, less loft, a shorter shaft (and I was already at 45") and a heavier shaft.  I got some yardage out of the deal and a big accuracy gain (and I was accurate before hand.)

 

So while I'm not skeptical about the benefits of fitting I'm skeptical about finding a fitter who understands enough about the SLDR's purpose that he or she can find the right combo for me at an affordable price.

[Damon]

I'm always skeptical of the claims made by OEM's.  In fact I can be so skeptical of TMag that I didn't even pay attention to the SLDR launch.  It's only when you guys started to rave that I perked up.  Also your raves started to fit with the complaints that I had heard in regards to guys saying that the SLDR's head doesn't produce enough spin and isn't fogiving enough or feels wierd.  It's because they didn't have enough loft or the stock shaft is too light.  To get that launch angle up and reduce the spin takes something totally new and different. 

 

Interestingly I love my R11s but why shouldn't I?   I had a half day one on one fitting session at their performance center with their best East Coast fitter.  What I have is not what you get off the rack - it's not a stock shaft, it's not the stock grip, it's not the stock length.  Heck the driver I was using was none of the above, I was fit for it by a fairly competent guy and I still ended up with, less loft, a shorter shaft (and I was already at 45") and a heavier shaft.  I got some yardage out of the deal and a big accuracy gain (and I was accurate before hand.)

 

So while I'm not skeptical about the benefits of fitting I'm skeptical about finding a fitter who understands enough about the SL

DR's purpose that he or she can find the right combo for me at an affordable price.

You could try Bob Van Sweden's shop in St. Pete.  It's South of Central avenue a little bit I think.  He has won a few Fitter of the Year awards from TMaG.  I don't know what he charges for a fitting, but it might be built into the cost of the driver if you buy it from him after the fitting.