Increasing Loft, Not just a TaylorMade Buzz Item

[BestGrips.com]

I've been grappling with this for a few weeks and have decided that there is more at play in the golf ball going from point a to b than just a few numbers and an equation.

 

Physics was never my strong point. But what about spin decay and deccerlation?

 

Let me end this with saying that... I have and love my sldr.

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

 

This brand of marketing is not limited to TM, every OEM out there advertises their new stuff as longer and better.  They have been for 50 years.

Very true Brian -- distance has been the marketing holy grail since gutta percha days.  And there's not a damn thing wrong with it!  

 

The onus is on the consumer to read, educate themselves, test and make the decisions that will make them happy.  Who care what anyone else thinks?

[revkev]

Yes, which will show us what works in a vacuum. Seen what a strong sidewind does to a too low-spin ballflight?

 

Sorry but I fail to see how a cross wind would effect a ball with less spin more than one with greater spin.  It's going to effect it proportionate to the direction the wind is coming regardless of the amount of spin with this one exception: 

 

I might use spin axis to try and straighten an approach shot into the green out or even to control the distance that it flies.

 

I think others have at least alluded to it but I'll make it clear, there is very little in common between a touring pro big boy or lower tier game and mine or than almost anyone on this website, and I'm a pretty low handicapper who can threaten par when he has the time to practice and play.  Even if some here might have certain attributes that approach or exceed tour pro level they don't have the time to practice and keep their skill level up the way someone who does it for a living has.  In 90 percent plus of our cases where our distance doesn't approach theirs, someone who hits it gorilla long 260 on average, is still 30 yards short of the average guy on tour.  We aren't fooling around with trying to cut a driver into the wind for accuracy's sake or with trying to hit it distance x - if we need distance x we pull another club - we need every inch out of our drivers.  Much better strategy is to allow for the wind, let it ride the wind and take the extra yardage, after all we also aren't playing courses with 3-5 inch rough very often, many time the rough on our courses isn't so bad to the point that a ball in the rough 15 yards ahead of a ball in the fairway is in much better shape.  It's the OB, water hazzard, trees or steep fairway bunkers that we need to avoid.

 

My SLDR showed great promise for me yesterday.  It's Florida, it's springtime which equals windy and I had no trouble finding fairways, plenty of them while using the driver for the first time.  In fact the only time I got into any real trouble off the tee was with the 3 wood.  I'm pretty sure that shot was spining much more than the ones I hit with the SLDR and so predictably it curved more on the wind than the balls that I hit with my driver.

 

Bottom line here is that the numbers suggest you need to go out and find a clubhead/shaft combo that will let you launch the ball higher with less spin.  That's a fact - it doesn't have to be the SLDR, there are other clubhead shaft combos that will accomplish the trick quite nicely.  Higher launch, lower spin will equal more distance.  I was out next to a guy whom I never dreamed I would be next three of four times yesterday.  All I changed was my driver.  I played a course that was longer than I'm used to and yet I had a lot of short irons in my hands instead of hybrids or 5 woods - it was very, very refreshing - I can shoot lower scores with that combo - those 15 to 20 yards will let me hit 9 irons and wedges all day on the course that I normally play and bring two par 5's back into range again. 

[RookieBlue7]

Yes, which will show us what works in a vacuum. Seen what a strong sidewind does to a too low-spin ballflight?

I don't see anywhere on the Flightscope dealy that I get to impart a sidewind on the ball.

As I was saying, there is golf, and there is launch monitor.

Well, let's see what the tour pros are doing (who play in all kinds of conditions). Yep, Dustin Johnson was still lofting up in the wind last week.

 

Guess what, 99.9% of amateurs shouldn't worry one iota about the wind because 99.9% of amateurs can't hit the ball where they want to and mean to every time. Wind will have less effect on the amateur game than a poor swing will. But 99.9% of amateurs can use more distance. And lofting up and killing spin is a means to getting that. Science and physics prove it, my experiments with my clubs and lofts themselves have proven it to me. Do what you want but I'll keep hitting these high flat bombs.

 

And it's not about or exclusive to TMag. Callaway is oreaching the same thing. Chad and Harry both have confirmed that with all of these low forward CG designs you have to go up in loft to hit them properly and get the most out of them. I've hit the Alpha, if it were available in more than 9 degrees, I'd have one of those too. I've hit the Covert 2.0, more loft and a lower spinning shaft worked better. I've hit several older clubs that have been hit melted low and forward, guess what, needed more loft and less spin. The ball stays in the air longer, period, with high launch angles and low spin rates for any club that's modern or the modern low forward CG that I've tested.

[revkev]

I don't mean to pile on here Mr. Divots but I'm going to a bit.

 

Yesterday I played with a guy whom I've played with every winter/spring for the past 6 years.  He hits his irons a club and a half longer than I do and has consistently been 20 yards longer than me off the tee - I'm a better golfer but he's longer by a wide margin.  Yesterday with the driver not so much.  Still the club and a half with the irons, still around 250 or a bit longer off the tee and I was there with him side by side.  Both he and another guy that we were playing with, one whom I play 30 to 40 rounds a year with, couldn't believe it.  He'd kill his drive, I'd hit mine up, up and away and we'd get to our balls and there they were side by side.  There were a couple of exceptions both ways when we misshit the ball, that was it.

 

Also, I hit a drive on a 485 yard par 5 down hill into the wind, fairways moderate in terms of firmness.  I got my second shot on the front fringe.  Up until yesterday that was only happening if the hole were down wind and the fairways firm - the ball hit and ran even though it was high and I had 225 left to the middle of the green, 210 to the front edge.

 

It works, get used to it, it's going to work better for some than others and different equipment can accomplish the goal but we are going to have to learn to hit the ball higher with the driver.

[jaxbeachpackerfan]

I know some of you probably get the multiple times daily emails from Revolution Golf.  Yesterday's video had the main guy hitting the SLDR 430 and 460.  The point he was making and demonstrating was a significant (8-10 yds) difference  increase with the 430, solely because of the lower spin off the 430.  The swing speed and ball speed on the demonstration swings were virtually identical.  

 

If that's the case, lower spin giving more distance, that's consistent I guess with what you all have been saying, but I thought from the comments I've been reading on various topics regarding the SLDR was that the only significant difference between the two heads was a visual and personal preference thing, not a significant performance component.

 

 

http://www.revolutiongolf.com/home/video/3326730562001

[HighFade]

I believe the 430 generates roughly 100rpm less than the 460. That should not equate to 8-10 yards.

 

But the head being smaller (and thus lighter with less wind resistance) combined with less spin, I guess it's possible.

[RookieBlue7]

Mark Crossfield also reviewed the 430 recently and it's an excellent review of lofting up

[revkev]

Again I'd make the same comment here as in Westy's thread. I really think how the club looks, sounds and feels matters a great deal. Science says 100 rpms but that's assuming the same swing. If the player prefers the smaller head he makes a better swing and suddenly he's hitting it 8-10 yards farther. On the contrary the guy prefers the bigger head and you get the same thing in reverse.

[jaxbeachpackerfan]

Again I'd make the same comment here as in Westy's thread. I really think how the club looks, sounds and feels matters a great deal. Science says 100 rpms but that's assuming the same swing. If the player prefers the smaller head he makes a better swing and suddenly he's hitting it 8-10 yards farther. On the contrary the guy prefers the bigger head and you get the same thing in reverse.

But, if you watch the video, the supposed pro put a pretty much identical swing on the ball, same swing speed and ball speed at impact.  Doesn't seem like a preference thing.

[Blade]

It only showed club head speed didn't it? It didn't show AoA which would change spin a lot.

[JBones]

Played in a 17mph wind with the SLDR the other day; hit 11/13 FWs, helping wind was 330+, hurting was 270s, mostly crosswinds and it was wet, so no roll at all.

[revkev]

But, if you watch the video, the supposed pro put a pretty much identical swing on the ball, same swing speed and ball speed at impact.  Doesn't seem like a preference thing.

 

 

These are good points but we don't know the AoA - you know even from your own swing that its often only a matter of being off a bit.  All he would have needed to do was go from down 1 to up 1 to have made that impact.  Perhaps for him its easier to obtain a positive AoA with the smaller head.  I was very late into the over 400 cc game because I just couldn't get used to it and square the face.  Now its a non-factor and I feel odd looking at even a 430 cc head.

[mr_divots]

Played in a 17mph wind with the SLDR the other day; hit 11/13 FWs, helping wind was 330+, hurting was 270s, mostly crosswinds and it was wet, so no roll at all.

Awesome. What's your spin rate with it, by the way? Are you sub-2K? My concern for flight stability comes at under 2K spin. When other pros are commenting on Rory and the difference between 2100 and 2800 with his drivers and the impact on his shots holding their line, I thought it worth bringing up, and my one driver I did not spin enough did get pushed about by the wind also, so my own experience kinda backs it up for me, anyway.

 

60 yards difference seems like a lot in a 17 MPH wind, no? I'm usually thinking I'm spinning it too much if I see such results. Yards lost to wind is normal, but not 60 yards in an optimal setup.

[Blade]

He didn't lose 60 yds. He was 330 with the wind helping. 270s into it. So if you split the difference, he was losing 25-30 yds compared to no wind. So roughly 10%. That's not out of the ordinary.

[RoverRick]

I played 18 holes today with a TMag SLDR.  I hit this fine on the range and also the course.  This was a stock shaft and while could have adjusted it to me, I did not,.  On the course I did not find it to be any longer than my current driver.  It was perhaps a bit easier to hit but nothing worth $399.

[hckymeyer]

I played 18 holes today with a TMag SLDR.  I hit this fine on the range and also the course.  This was a stock shaft and while could have adjusted it to me, I did not,.  On the course I did not find it to be any longer than my current driver.  It was perhaps a bit easier to hit but nothing worth $399.

Thanks for the feedback of hitting an off the rack driver just ok

[RoverRick]

First off, my drivers are not simply off the rack shafts.  I never hit an off the shelf driver well.  On December 30th, I took my favorite driver at the time, an R9 Super Deep to PGA SuperStore and compared it to the SLDR.  The stock SLDR came up 2 yards short, after trying several variations of it.  Since then the Titleist 910D3 with a Mayazaki C Kua 39S has kicked the R9 Super Deep with a Talimonti out of the bag.  So the fact that the SLDR did not beat out the Titileist is not a surprise. 

[BestGrips.com]

Off the rack the SLDR is awesome. With that said, I cannot wait to change out the shafts next week (come on USPS get me those adapters now!). Then I will have the ultimate boom stick. The cost of yardage is always something to consider when debating stock vs. premium shaft, though.

[hckymeyer]

This was a stock shaft and while could have adjusted it to me, I did not,. 

 

First off, my drivers are not simply off the rack shafts. 

 

Color me confused then

 

[mr_divots]

Thanks for the feedback of hitting an off the rack driver just ok

Hey, I'm sensing a theme to your posts.

 

In all fairness, our experience with any product has to start somewhere. I think after a range session and 18 holes, he could at least tell if he liked a $399 driver enough to throw away the inferior (supposedly) stock shaft and drop another $300 worth of aftermarket shaft into it. He didn't say its horrible. Just not markedly better. Same thing I have said (aside from horrible feel. Yes, I did use the horrible word.) That's as fair as one can be without dropping major coin.

[JBones]

Awesome. What's your spin rate with it, by the way? Are you sub-2K? My concern for flight stability comes at under 2K spin. When other pros are commenting on Rory and the difference between 2100 and 2800 with his drivers and the impact on his shots holding their line, I thought it worth bringing up, and my one driver I did not spin enough did get pushed about by the wind also, so my own experience kinda backs it up for me, anyway.

 

60 yards difference seems like a lot in a 17 MPH wind, no? I'm usually thinking I'm spinning it too much if I see such results. Yards lost to wind is normal, but not 60 yards in an optimal setup.

My spin is right around 1900rpm. I observed the opposite affect, I thought my ball held it's line better with less spin. As Blade said I was losing/gaining 30yds with the wind, add in that it was a 17mph constant, with 25mph gusts and you get the larger disparity. I can tell you this, I've never hit 11-13 FWs with any driver before. I'm really excited to play this thing in dry, less windy conditions.

[mr_divots]

My spin is right around 1900rpm. I observed the opposite affect, I thought my ball held it's line better with less spin. As Blade said I was losing/gaining 30yds with the wind, add in that it was a 17mph constant, with 25mph gusts and you get the larger disparity. I can tell you this, I've never hit 11-13 FWs with any driver before. I'm really excited to play this thing in dry, less windy conditions.

Were you the guy that was the one that was closest to getting to 17/1700?

I don't doubt it will work and hold its line for someone who can achieve that launch condition. I just don't see many Ams being able to hit those parameters though. 3.5 handicap; I'd think you would hit a fair amount of fairways already? Can we call you "Seve?"

 

Watching the TM SLDR "white board drawings" commercials, I can't help but have a distinct feeling of Yogi Berra de ja va all over again. Since when is high launch low spin a "new" idea? It's been around for years. I guess they're just casting a drag net for anyone who hadn't paid attention long ago?

[Mr_Theoo]

My spin is right around 1900rpm. I observed the opposite affect, I thought my ball held it's line better with less spin. As Blade said I was losing/gaining 30yds with the wind, add in that it was a 17mph constant, with 25mph gusts and you get the larger disparity. I can tell you this, I've never hit 11-13 FWs with any driver before. I'm really excited to play this thing in dry, less windy conditions.

Same here. I got and played Friday and loved what I saw in terms of how my shots handled the wind.

[JBones]

Were you the guy that was the one that was closest to getting to 17/1700?

I don't doubt it will work and hold its line for someone who can achieve that launch condition. I just don't see many Ams being able to hit those parameters though. 3.5 handicap; I'd think you would hit a fair amount of fairways already?

Yes, I was at 16.8°/1900rpm. I'm not a typical 3.5, I hit it long, then scramble. My home course is a 7300yd links course where I can bomb and gouge to a good score, get me on a tighter course and I play to about a 12......hopefully that changes this season.

[revkev]

Again though is go back to the Rory thing. He wants a certain amount of spin because he wants to and indeed at his level on the courses he plays must be able to work the ball. Less spin means less curve which is better for almost all of us, so long as we launch it high enough.

 

Having written that clearly Rick knows enough about equipment to fit himself properly and assess whether or not it's worth shelling out 4 bills for the club.

 

If the SLDR were so superior you'd see it in every tour players bag. I saw the normal mix of equipment including tons of ping drivers on my day at the valspar. Lots of G25s actually.

[BestGrips.com]

[quote name="revkev" post="130565" timestamp="1394999860"

If the SLDR were so superior you'd see it in every tour players bag. I saw the normal mix of equipment including tons of ping drivers on my day at the valspar. Lots of G25s actually.

 

There is a lot of cash handed out to play clubs per event. Even if a club was superior, I don't think it could reach 100% use.

[RookieBlue7]

Well, I decided on which SLDR to keep. The 430 12* is in the bag with the ProjectX LZ Prototype. And it's a naaaaaasty combo

[revkev]

There is a lot of cash handed out to play clubs per event. Even if a club was superior, I don't think it could reach 100% use.

That's what I get for engaging in hyperbole. My bad. Regardless I think it's a great club, the point I'm trying to make is there are other great clubs too. As you can see I'm bagging an SLDR. However not every TMag guy was. I still saw some R1s and I think an R11 s out there.

[RookieBlue7]

There's actually not as much pay for play as there used to be