Jump to content
jaxbeachpackerfan

After seeing the #s, I finally got it--GolfTec Round 2

Recommended Posts

Last March, I posted about going to GolfTec for some lessons and analysis.  I ended up buying a lesson package and used most of it, albeit slowly over several months.  It was helpful to some extent, I fixed my swaying and shortened my backswing somewhat.  My ball striking did improve.  I stopped in October 'cause the pro I was seeing went in for some surgery, then my back acted up big time in November, December and January.  I didn't go to the range at all during that time, and cut back my playing.  Scores suffered greatly.

 

Long story short, my back is much better, and I called Golftec to start up again.  Well, my pro never came back after surgery, so I set up a lesson today with the head pro.  We quickly determined that I had never been put through their proprietary evaluation (much to the pro's surprise), so we did that instead.  Very instructive.

 

They have this database of 150 pros swings and have come up with averages for a whole slew of measurements relating to positions at address, top of the backswing, impact and follow through, plus other stuff.  They put you in a belt and shoulder harness and measure your address and various positions in the swing.  We dealt mostly with the stance and top of the backswing today.  Turns out, due in large part to the help from the prior pro, my stance at address was pretty good, as was my position at the top, with a few exceptions.  The one stat that was very revealing to me was my backswing turn.  It actually is very good.  Average tour player shoulder turn was 89 degrees, mine was 88.  But that must be accompanied by a proper hip turn, with ideally a large difference in degree between the two.  Average tour player hip turn was 48 degrees, mine was 49.  Tour player difference is 41 degrees, mine was 39 degrees, not bad for a 62 yr old with three bad vertebrae in the lower back.

 

Why is this significant?  I have always struggled with a way too long backswing.  I've shortened it somewhat, but its still a bit long.  And in large part its mental with me, I try to get a big turn (because that's good, right?). I've never been real sure how to reconcile trying to get that big turn with a short backswing.  Today, it was like the pro is saying, "Dude, you got a great turn, stop thinking about it, let's fix the other crap."  I've seen the videos before, but seeing the numbers seem to resonate with me.  And, it was almost immediate, without trying to deliberately do a big turn, I was easily able to keep the backswing in check.

 

The other takeaway was from the measurement for which I was in the red ("Needs attention" on their chart).  Shoulder tilt at the top was an anemic 22 degrees versus 36 deg for the pros.  Meaning that while I got my shoulders around, the axis of the turn was much too horizontal.  By moving my body around, he was able to show how that would make it much harder to drop the club down in the backswing.  So we worked on a much steeper shoulder tilt (along with about a 10 deg greater spine angle).  Wow, on just a few swings, it was just so much easier to get the feel of the club dropping down into the slot rather than the feeling of forcing it that I had before.  

 

Point, I guess, is that nothing in all the theory is new to me, but seeing it all translated in the specific degrees and angles and seeing what I had to do with my posture and backswing to get to those numbers all just seemed to click.  Can't wait to carry it to the range and the course.  Practicing on the mat in the condo with those visuals makes me think I've finally got it.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is really cool. I have taken a crap load of lessons over the past 10 yrs and still can't feel the club dropping in and i love seeing what Im doing wrong and how to fix it. If you don't mind what did you spend in round #s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I went to golftec a few years ago. The technology they use is amazing. It is really enlightening to see on super slo mo what you think is a drastic swing change, only to see that it is barely noticeable. I'm just more of a feel player, and they wanted to make me a robot. And more than a little pricey. But I would still highly recommend them, especially for folks in cold climates. It's a great way to keep loose during winter, and the instructors (despite my philosophical differences with mine) are top notch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is really cool. I have taken a crap load of lessons over the past 10 yrs and still can't feel the club dropping in and i love seeing what Im doing wrong and how to fix it. If you don't mind what did you spend in round #s

Current pricing (for Jacksonville, judging by their website, each location has its own pricing structure):

 

A one hour full evaluation, basically what I did today, $125.  (I got it comped because of not getting the right evaluation done last year).

 

Their price lists are package based:  a 10 lesson package is $650 (what I bought last year).  The more lessons you buy above that, the cheaper they are, all the way to a 52 lesson package for $5220.  

 

They also have packages that include up to 90 minutes a week of practice time PER WEEK in their practice bays which include their flightscope or whatever it is launch monitor.  You get the video screen of every one of your shots (like you see on Golf Channel) with all the stats, plus a video of every shot that you can replay, slo mo, rewind, frame by frame, etc., using five big control buttons that you just tap with the butt of your club as your standing there.  I didn't subscribe to that last year.  Really cool!

 

I'm going to go with a 25 lesson (30 min per) package that includes the 90 minutes of video bay practice a week, plus either a driver or irons fitting and 4 mobile lessons (where they will go to the course with you for short game or playing lessons--each "lesson" is 30 minutes, so you'd aggregate them for a playing lesson).  That will cost me $1,960  If nothing else, that's giving me a year of being able to use what I think is the most current launch monitor and video technology on my own, basically on demand, for up to 90 minutes a week.  Plus, all the lessons, and a fitting.  Its sounding pretty good to me.  Only downside, it's a 20 minute drive.  But, being semi-retired, I can handle that.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Further rationalizing the cost on my last post--$1,960 total cost.  Includes $125 driver fitting (or iron, but I'm going to do the driver), which I am going to do anyway, and in line with market, I believe.  So, leaves $1,835.  25 half hour lessons, which could be valued at, say, $50 per at a club or other venue minimum, is $1,000 (I need to do this, been in a improve by myself rut for many years that HAS NOT WORKED).  That leaves $835.  If you go to a cheap outdoor range around here, best deal is $6.50 for a large bucket of balls.  Takes about 30 minutes to go through those.  Do that twice a week, that's $13 a week or $676 for the year (and you're hitting into a field with a few flags in it).  Instead (assuming I do it), I pay $835, or $16 a week for as many balls I can hit in 90 minutes, with all this incredible high tech feedback on every single shot.  I'm going to take the plunge, with the full expectation that I'd better be a 11 or 12 handicap after the year is done (down from my current, back problem layoff induced, 19).  There, I did it.  A firm goal--something to really work for.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm currently taking lessons at golftec and I can say it has helped my game leaps and bounds. This will only be my 3rd season coming up but I can see so much improvement from last year already. Has me very excited about the upcoming season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad it's working out for you. I've heard good and bad about Golftec. I think it really depends on your location and the pros that are there. I checked it out here a couple of years ago in Minnesota, and it was like walking into a used car dealer where they were pushing all of these lesson packages.  I did not like the atmosphere at all, and walked out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad it's working out for you. I've heard good and bad about Golftec. I think it really depends on your location and the pros that are there. I checked it out here a couple of years ago in Minnesota, and it was like walking into a used car dealer where they were pushing all of these lesson packages.  I did not like the atmosphere at all, and walked out.

 

Probably a good idea. I like the idea of jax going to the head pro. I learned the hard way several times that you gotta take lessons from the head guy. If you don't like him, then go somewhere else.

 

I do like how they tell you what they're trying to get you to do and push you in that direction. I cannot stand being told something without a good explanation behind it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow--what a difference!  Played nine holes today before we decided, hey, we live in Florida, we don't need to play when its 48 degrees with a 15 mph misty wind off the ocean.  But after only 15 or so swings on the practice tee, I took the new spine angle on setup, and more shoulder tilt on the backswing, to the course.  Seven out of seven fairways hit!  I NEVER do that, average is maybe 4 to 7 in an entire round!  And five of those were really good.  I played with a couple of 10 handicaps that I'm usually about the same length off the tee.  Today, those good hits were a least 20 yds beyond them, and one was 35.  

 

Irons were 50/50, but no bad ones and three really good ones.  Hybrid and fairway wood, not so good, need to work on something for those--three well hit but significantly pushed shots out of three.

 

But, with those two adjustments and just a wee bit of practice, at least for today I was able to swing a whole lot freer it seemed, and NO bad shots (I'm known for my frequent bad, and lost stroke, shots, even when playing well).  Very much encouraged, especially with the driver.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's definitely expensive. But if you want to see what your swing is REALLY doing, nothing beats it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Golftec--Update #3.

 

Signed up for the 6 month lesson/video practice/club fitting package.

 

Had two video practice sessions already and a lesson today.  This stuff is really cool.

 

First the lesson.  Told the pro I was getting more comfortable with increased spine angle and increased shoulder tilt.  But told him I wasn't getting the feel of dropping the arms down and inside on the downswing.  In the video practice on Monday, I was trying to do that as hard as I could, but watching the slow mo replays of every shot, I was still coming over the top at the beginning of the downswing.  Absolutely couldn't stop it.  Hit a number of good shots, but there was always that initial move bringing the club over the desired plane.  Sometimes managed to bring the club back on plane by impact, sometimes not.  I felt I was dropping the arms and club under, but I wasn't.

 

So, pro had me take a couple of swings and we looked at them.  Split screen with Retief Goosen, who we've chosen as a similar build, similar type swing, model for me.  First noted that I was only half way there at the top of the backswing as far as correct shoulder tilt, but much better than before.  But the real illuminating moment was the couple of frames at the very beginning of the downswing, mine and Retief's.  From a similar position (our shoulder turns v hip turns were virtually identical), my right shoulder moved a couple/three inches FORWARD, whereas Retief's moved more than a couple inches  straight down.  I'd been focusing on dropping my right arm, I guess, not the shoulder.

 

Then, the nifty bio feedback to help me feel the move.  I had the sensors strapped on.  They can set something up on their computer that generates an audible beep if the right shoulder moves down in the correct motion and is silent if it didn't.  A few drill moves and half swings to get the feel of moving the shoulder correctly to get the beep.  Then the full swings.  I finally got the feel for the move!  It took a few swings to find the ball with the altered swing plane, but I started to see immediate results in at least getting an on plane downswing.  For the first time ever, I was able to see a swing of mine where the club actually was on the plane rather than above the plane on the downswing!  Wow!

 

So I did a 30 minute video practice session right after the lesson.  He left everything hooked up so I could get the biofeedback beep if I did it right.  After 5 minutes, I was able to do it every time and continued to do so through the rest of the session.

 

I wish I could say it translated to beautiful shots on the screen, but this is a big change and its probably going to take some time to adjust to it.  Only about 1 in 5 shots were "good" (straight or slight draw and correct distance).  Most of the shots that felt good, but were only average, were short and a bit right even though swing speeds were identical.  Need to work on getting the club head square at impact with the different plane, I guess.  

 

But this is really something for me, for the first time, after 30+ years of lessons from time to time, and reading every tip in the book on how to stop coming over the top, I saw the little move I was making that was preventing me from achieving that goal, a move I had no idea I was making.

 

Now, I just have to brace myself for a few questionable rounds as I try to incorporate this into a swing on the golf course. But I'm excited, really excited, to know what it is I need to do and HOW to do it!

 

Sorry, I got a little overboard on this.  I'm just a little pumped.  If I can get the dreaded pull, and the fear of the dreaded pull (which often sends the ball heading in the opposite direction), out of my game, I'm guessing I'll see a several stroke improvement ultimately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Golftec--Update #3.

 

Signed up for the 6 month lesson/video practice/club fitting package.

 

Had two video practice sessions already and a lesson today.  This stuff is really cool.

 

First the lesson.  Told the pro I was getting more comfortable with increased spine angle and increased shoulder tilt.  But told him I wasn't getting the feel of dropping the arms down and inside on the downswing.  In the video practice on Monday, I was trying to do that as hard as I could, but watching the slow mo replays of every shot, I was still coming over the top at the beginning of the downswing.  Absolutely couldn't stop it.  Hit a number of good shots, but there was always that initial move bringing the club over the desired plane.  Sometimes managed to bring the club back on plane by impact, sometimes not.  I felt I was dropping the arms and club under, but I wasn't.

 

So, pro had me take a couple of swings and we looked at them.  Split screen with Retief Goosen, who we've chosen as a similar build, similar type swing, model for me.  First noted that I was only half way there at the top of the backswing as far as correct shoulder tilt, but much better than before.  But the real illuminating moment was the couple of frames at the very beginning of the downswing, mine and Retief's.  From a similar position (our shoulder turns v hip turns were virtually identical), my right shoulder moved a couple/three inches FORWARD, whereas Retief's moved more than a couple inches  straight down.  I'd been focusing on dropping my right arm, I guess, not the shoulder.

 

Then, the nifty bio feedback to help me feel the move.  I had the sensors strapped on.  They can set something up on their computer that generates an audible beep if the right shoulder moves down in the correct motion and is silent if it didn't.  A few drill moves and half swings to get the feel of moving the shoulder correctly to get the beep.  Then the full swings.  I finally got the feel for the move!  It took a few swings to find the ball with the altered swing plane, but I started to see immediate results in at least getting an on plane downswing.  For the first time ever, I was able to see a swing of mine where the club actually was on the plane rather than above the plane on the downswing!  Wow!

 

So I did a 30 minute video practice session right after the lesson.  He left everything hooked up so I could get the biofeedback beep if I did it right.  After 5 minutes, I was able to do it every time and continued to do so through the rest of the session.

 

I wish I could say it translated to beautiful shots on the screen, but this is a big change and its probably going to take some time to adjust to it.  Only about 1 in 5 shots were "good" (straight or slight draw and correct distance).  Most of the shots that felt good, but were only average, were short and a bit right even though swing speeds were identical.  Need to work on getting the club head square at impact with the different plane, I guess.  

 

But this is really something for me, for the first time, after 30+ years of lessons from time to time, and reading every tip in the book on how to stop coming over the top, I saw the little move I was making that was preventing me from achieving that goal, a move I had no idea I was making.

 

Now, I just have to brace myself for a few questionable rounds as I try to incorporate this into a swing on the golf course. But I'm excited, really excited, to know what it is I need to do and HOW to do it!

 

Sorry, I got a little overboard on this.  I'm just a little pumped.  If I can get the dreaded pull, and the fear of the dreaded pull (which often sends the ball heading in the opposite direction), out of my game, I'm guessing I'll see a several stroke improvement ultimately.

 

When you go in for practice later on, can you get the machine set up the same way with the beeps? That's a really cool feature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you go in for practice later on, can you get the machine set up the same way with the beeps? That's a really cool feature.

I would assume so, but I'll ask next time I go in.  It's only a waist and a shoulder strap and a few seconds on the computer to set it up.  The immediate feedback is very helpful. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Jax, you are the man! I did the 26 lessons a couple yrs ago and dipped my Hcp from 20 to 15........I saved all the weekly videos so that I can still review them on occasion. They have a terrific system.

 

The guy that I used is no longer there. I go by there every time I go to Golfsmith. In Tampa, they are located inside the Golfsmith.

 

Keep it up and we'll set up a round.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds intriguing! Can't wait to hear about and see the progress.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Five weeks after buying the Golftec package.  The 10 rounds after buying the package and starting up the lessons again and using the video practice, averaged SEVEN strokes lower than the 10 rounds prior to signing up for the package.  Other factors may enter in, but, if nothing else, the lessons have essentially eliminated the pull and fear of the pull, which has been the scourge of my game for the last 25 years, for every club except for a couple of times a round lapse for the driver.  I'm actually swinging on plane more often than not now, versus never before.  

 

I love the video practice on my own and the ability to slo mo my swing after every single shot.  "Oops, that wasn't good--let's see why..."  Or, "really hit that good, lets look at that one frame by frame."  Or, I'm concentrating on a short back swing on this shot--did I execute?"  (Answer, NO, not yet, even my half swings are still too long--much left to work on).  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Five weeks after buying the Golftec package.  The 10 rounds after buying the package and starting up the lessons again and using the video practice, averaged SEVEN strokes lower than the 10 rounds prior to signing up for the package.  Other factors may enter in, but, if nothing else, the lessons have essentially eliminated the pull and fear of the pull, which has been the scourge of my game for the last 25 years, for every club except for a couple of times a round lapse for the driver.  I'm actually swinging on plane more often than not now, versus never before.  

 

I love the video practice on my own and the ability to slo mo my swing after every single shot.  "Oops, that wasn't good--let's see why..."  Or, "really hit that good, lets look at that one frame by frame."  Or, I'm concentrating on a short back swing on this shot--did I execute?"  (Answer, NO, not yet, even my half swings are still too long--much left to work on).

 

Good for you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yea congrats on the improvement mate, that biofeedback thing really sounds cool to work with

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...